I just logged to say:
I am not so experienced as many of the GFs here.Or not so geared.But i have my bloodthirsty title so i am not complete inexperienced either. What interested me in the whole thread :
A phrase coming over and over again from Gfs.
"My job in pvp as GF is to protect the team"
First of all,excuse me,but "protect my team" into real pvp is trasformed roughly to "i go to mid or home node turtle around my shield and try to die slowly".For some might be fun;Not for me and some others i believe.
I think this kind of thought is not right.It makes GF a second class actor of a film.It does not has to be that way.Why not to play aggresivelly?
Some GFs agree to each other phesis and then transform that phesis to a dogma by repeatedly state it;I challenge this.I believe it is not a wise advice.
I respect all the GFs that state this.I really do.Nothing personal.Most are better than me.But..
No GF can protect his team cause simply GF as a class lacks the abilities to do it.It has some prones.As the GWF has,the Tr has stuns even the dc has some encounters.I have yet to see a GWf stating this "in pvp is my duty to protect my team".
That is why they always get buffs while GFs gets nerfs.
My advice to any Gf during the matches is to play aggresively and with LS to aim the rear formation of the enemies team:the ranged ones HR and Cws.And then prone/stun them.No other class can do it faster and with the most element of surprise than a Gf, cause of lunging strike and bull charge and prones.
Far more usefull to me for a Gf to offer than go to mid and turtle behind his hield and use SoS.The enemies will kite him and when finish with his team8s they will kill him fast.
But..wait..?What about the pvp guides that want Gf to play a specific role??
Think out of the box.Don't follow the "pvp guides".Why?Aren't more experienced?They are but there is a slight problem with these guides.
These unwritten "pvp guides" are written by two classes.TRs and GWfs.Tr and GWFs(exception some CWs) were and are the leaders of the first pvp guilds in NW.And made guides that suited their optimal playstyle.Which ofcourse includes first class roles for TR/GWFs and secondary to everyone else;
In general for any new lv60 GF and up to 13-14gs opponents(higher i cannot say ):Play aggresivelly when you can ,defensively when you must.Don't follow a dogma.Test and improve.
I play exactly this way! I said my job is to protect my team and defend nodes, however if my team is dead or nobody is around I will run off to defend another node or help a squishy take one!
So in my defense I agree with you, however GF have much to be desired in PvP and against a good team GF will not be very successful being aggressive.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Problem is some classes having better itemization with high critical and arm pen.Even if a GF plays 90% perfect all his time against a GWf who will make 3 or 4 misses of his prones,the one mistake will cost Gf his life .
Cause of the extreme critical that GWFs stack and their bugged deap gash that ticks ,always critical,into background.
Another problem that many seem to just pass away is that 90% of the time the GF will have worst gear than his opponent.Cause a GF to get R9 by grinding is very difficult cause none takes us to dungs.
Sometimes the other classes win ,just by their superior gear.Not their gaming abilities.Never saw a r9 GF in PE.HR,Tr,GWFs?All the time.
Another problem that many seem to just pass away is that 90% of the time the GF will have worst gear than his opponent.Cause a GF to get R9 by grinding is very difficult cause none takes us to dungs.
Au contraire. "Dung" is the usual state of affairs for the Guardian Fighter. Deep dung.
I just logged to say:
I am not so experienced as many of the GFs here.Or not so geared.But i have my bloodthirsty title so i am not complete inexperienced either. What interested me in the whole thread :
A phrase coming over and over again from Gfs.
"My job in pvp as GF is to protect the team"
I think this kind of thought is not right.It makes GF a second class actor of a film.It does not has to be that way.Why not to play aggresivelly?
Some GFs agree to each other phesis and then transform that phesis to a dogma by repeatedly state it;I challenge this.I believe it is not a wise advice.
I respect all the GFs that state this.I really do.Nothing personal.Most are better than me.But..
No GF can protect his team cause simply GF as a class lacks the abilities to do it.It has some prones.As the GWF has,the Tr has stuns even the dc has some encounters.I have yet to see a GWf stating this "in pvp is my duty to protect my team".
That is why they always get buffs while GFs gets nerfs.
My advice to any Gf during the matches is to play aggresively and with LS to aim the rear formation of the enemies team:the ranged ones HR and Cws.And then prone/stun them.No other class can do it faster and with the most element of surprise than a Gf, cause of lunging strike and bull charge and prones.
Far more usefull to me for a Gf to offer than go to mid and turtle behind his hield and use SoS.The enemies will kite him and when finish with his team8s they will kill him fast.
But..wait..?What about the pvp guides that want Gf to play a specific role??
Think out of the box.Don't follow the "pvp guides".Why?Aren't more experienced?They are but there is a slight problem with these guides.
These unwritten "pvp guides" are written by two classes.TRs and GWfs.Tr and GWFs(exception some CWs) were and are the leaders of the first pvp guilds in NW.And made guides that suited their optimal playstyle.Which ofcourse includes first class roles for TR/GWFs and secondary to everyone else;
In general for any new lv60 GF and up to 13-14gs opponents(higher i cannot say ):Play aggresivelly when you can ,defensively when you must.Don't follow a dogma.Test and improve.
I don't know what you think we mean when we say protect teammates. This is done in the exact way you seem to want to play.
Be aggressive, get in peoples faces, use your gap closers to move from one threat to the other. Always go for the CW, this is protecting your team because he cannot ignore you so he cannot be in the back picking off your squishes. Keep the DC busy while other teammates finish off the DPS. Move forward and intercept while your teammates cap, stuff like that.
That to me is protecting your team, I'm not suggesting you slot <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> encounters and provide speed buffs and minor damage absorption, and stuff like that.
Playing aggressively is the BEST way to protect your team. Every class can do this, I remember in one match I was stalemating a superior GWF on 2. I could not beat him, but it took him some time to kill me. So our HR that was rotating would just drop through mid and throw a fox or an interrupt on him and keep going. This bought me just enough time to regen up a little, and for my encounters to come back up. (I was playing GWF in this match). But in matches on my GF, that's the roll I play a lot. Rotating around dropping prones, helping control mid, helping clear points, and taking over for stalematers so they could grab a pot real quick.
This, of course, was during an arranged match, but you can still play that way in pugs, it's just not going to go as smoothly
Be aggressive, get in peoples faces, use your gap closers to move from one threat to the other. Always go for the CW, this is protecting your team because he cannot ignore you so he cannot be in the back picking off your squishes. Keep the DC busy while other teammates finish off the DPS. Move forward and intercept while your teammates cap, stuff like that.
That to me is protecting your team, I'm not suggesting you slot <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> encounters and provide speed buffs and minor damage absorption, and stuff like that.
Playing aggressively is the BEST way to protect your team."
^^^
+1.
I completely agree with you.I wrote about the whole "protect your team" thing ,cause there are GF guides around that suggest SoS coupled with specific defensive playstyle.
I met mid-high geared GFs who used SoS and it was a complete failure for them.It does not work.Still you can be proned and finished quickly.
(Although SoS can be usefull to slot in an arranged 1v1 with a GWf )
I don't know what you think we mean when we say protect teammates. This is done in the exact way you seem to want to play.
Be aggressive, get in peoples faces, use your gap closers to move from one threat to the other. Always go for the CW, this is protecting your team because he cannot ignore you so he cannot be in the back picking off your squishes. Keep the DC busy while other teammates finish off the DPS. Move forward and intercept while your teammates cap, stuff like that.
Yep, that's the PvP equivalent of building threat.. being brutal, scary, obnoxious and troublesome. Derail plans, get in peoples' faces, troll tons of enemy players and prey on the weak. Lots of bangs, clangs, distraction and destruction, make life difficult. You probably won't top kills often, but you will cause unrest in the ranks.
One of the nicest compliments I ever had in-game was from a useful HR that I had been suppressing as he kept picking off my team.. afterwards, he /w me, and we got to chatting- about how it was a fun match and so forth. He said something along the lines of "every time I saw you coming, I was like sheeeeeit". That was all the confirmation that I had needed that I doing the right sort of thing
^^^
+1.
I completely agree with you.I wrote about the whole "protect your team" thing ,cause there are GF guides around that suggest SoS coupled with specific defensive playstyle.
I met mid-high geared GFs who used SoS and it was a complete failure for them.It does not work.Still you can be proned and finished quickly.
(Although SoS can be usefull to slot in an arranged 1v1 with a GWf )
Ugh, don't get me started on SoS GF's. Was playing with a buddy who has a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> destro GWF just to troll around and have fun with. We ran into a GF heavy party and were cracken SoS jokes the entire time. It does NO damage! (Not even to a poorly geared destroyer)
But, but, if you stack the correct stats...... NO IT SUCKS!!!
But, but, if you spec correctly.... NO!!!!!
Well, it can really make a differe..... *SMACK*. NO!!!!!!!!
Now come MoD 3, in open world with all the stupid reflect bonuses you can get from companions..... Well it has the potential to get really fun really quick, but other classes have access to the same bonuses so adding just SOS isent really going to put you ahead by much.
''My opinion, not law, but it makes sense to me so food for thought at least.'' - I said this because I assumed I was speaking with reasonable people who wanted to hear the ideas and opinions of someone with a lot of experience in PvP. This thread was going very well until.... you I got frustrated explaining the same thing over and over to the 2 or 3 people who don't see the way things are, so my tone took a turn for the worse.
It is probably not going to change in future responses to you guys, so I'll do my best not to address your questions, comments anymore. I have said my piece.
You can disagree if you want, but you would be wrong
I am a reasonable individual. I saw your opinion on Anvil and Griffon's, proceeded to state why I choose Anvil and was immediately told I was fighting scrubs and stealing kills. I did not even directly address you, simply added my thoughts to the discussion.
Perhaps look at your own responses before trying to infer that others are being unreasonable.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
I am a reasonable individual. I saw your opinion on Anvil and Griffon's, proceeded to state why I choose Anvil and was immediately told I was fighting scrubs and stealing kills. I did not even directly address you, simply added my thoughts to the discussion.
Perhaps look at your own responses before trying to infer that others are being unreasonable.
You already responded to those comments I made... on page 5:
Fair enough, but after saying this; ''My opinion, not law, but it makes sense to me so food for thought at least.'', I got a little agitated that you proceeded to rubbish another's opinion on changing it up rotation wise. Full chain prone works for you and probably the majority of GFs in PVP, but it does not work for me. I also know of others that prefer Griffon's over both Anvil and one of BC or FLS. Because of this I see no problem in experimenting with your third encounter so long as you have at least one prone and a gap closer.
Thats what you said so you don't have to go back and look
I have not spoken to you or about you and your ideas since. Why are you bringing this back up? I thought we were done.
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lvl99looterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 682Arc User
My job as GF is to protect my team and defend the node in any manner possible... So you can run around with your so called perfect set up and I'll do mine. You speculate on ME getting others low sometimes its 2 of us on a GWF or trying to keep my CW alive. Killing them removes the threat of capping the node and killing my teammates! I choose to kill my target if possible over proning them until help comes.
I respect you opinion but I choose a different play style.
Agreed. I rather kill the enemy than to stall. I personally focus heavily on kills than pts. Because with the kills comes pts. If I kill an enemy, he can't cap. If I spawn camp, and kill again, he can't step foot on a node to cause it to halt. Therefore my team continues to receive pts, all while I'm murdering people xD!!
Agreed. I rather kill the enemy than to stall. I personally focus heavily on kills than pts. Because with the kills comes pts. If I kill an enemy, he can't cap. If I spawn camp, and kill again, he can't step foot on a node to cause it to halt. Therefore my team continues to receive pts, all while I'm murdering people xD!!
I like this. ^^
But I think it's important to maintain a balance. Sometimes it's worth more to stay on your node and let your opponent get away. Sometimes you have to resist temptation. Honestly, it's a balance I'm still figuring out myself. lol
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lvl99looterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 682Arc User
But I think it's important to maintain a balance. Sometimes it's worth more to stay on your node and let your opponent get away. Sometimes you have to resist temptation. Honestly, it's a balance I'm still figuring out myself. lol
Oh definitely. If I'm in combat with someone and they run away; no sweat. I'll just finish capping then HUNT THEM DOWN >=D!!
It's all about team composition, if I see they have heavy ranged I may try and annoy / kill there HR / CW. If they have 2 GWF I will hold my position on my node calling out if I need backup, if I see DC / or GF I will follow their DC like flies on you know what! I will make that DC hate me!!!!!
If all the above is true, and yet I have a sick team things change again... lmao
EDIT: Sometimes if we are facing a premade and losing I will taunt curse at them until they stop capping nodes and ALL focus on gzerg killing me and I've won a few of these too!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Anvil of doom does not really help your team, griffons wraith kinda does I guess, Knight's Challenge defiantly does not.
In 1v1 will any of these skills give you the edge? I can't see how, regardless of play style.
Frontline Surge helps your teammates by proning the enemy, and applying the bronze debuff, which in turn helps your team kill, keeps your team safe, keeps you safe, and provides the condition that is required for your feats/feature to give you more DPS.
Yes you can use other encounters if you like or if you feel they fit your play style better, are they optimal? No, FLS beats them out in nearly every way. The only thing it is missing is DPS but, the only encounter that does more is only usable when the enemy is low on health, and let's face it... If you have someone low on health as a GF, you don't need anvil to finish them, a water balloon will probably do =P
I can see how GW might be attractive, but even though it's a short stun and spammable, it does not prone so you're losing the DPS boost from trample and all those other great feats you picked up because all the alternatives are just meh.
My opinion, not law, but it makes sense to me so food for thought at least.
Anvil of doom good if you're team have other frontliners that can absorb damage. You can adjust to give more burst damage. If there are only two frontliners then frotline surge is better to use. I personally dont like grigffons wrath beacause of its slow cast, you get rooted when you cast it, easily dodgaeable, useless when enemy is immune to stun, and low damage every hit.
Comments
I play exactly this way! I said my job is to protect my team and defend nodes, however if my team is dead or nobody is around I will run off to defend another node or help a squishy take one!
So in my defense I agree with you, however GF have much to be desired in PvP and against a good team GF will not be very successful being aggressive.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Cause of the extreme critical that GWFs stack and their bugged deap gash that ticks ,always critical,into background.
Another problem that many seem to just pass away is that 90% of the time the GF will have worst gear than his opponent.Cause a GF to get R9 by grinding is very difficult cause none takes us to dungs.
Sometimes the other classes win ,just by their superior gear.Not their gaming abilities.Never saw a r9 GF in PE.HR,Tr,GWFs?All the time.
Au contraire. "Dung" is the usual state of affairs for the Guardian Fighter. Deep dung.
I don't know what you think we mean when we say protect teammates. This is done in the exact way you seem to want to play.
Be aggressive, get in peoples faces, use your gap closers to move from one threat to the other. Always go for the CW, this is protecting your team because he cannot ignore you so he cannot be in the back picking off your squishes. Keep the DC busy while other teammates finish off the DPS. Move forward and intercept while your teammates cap, stuff like that.
That to me is protecting your team, I'm not suggesting you slot <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> encounters and provide speed buffs and minor damage absorption, and stuff like that.
Playing aggressively is the BEST way to protect your team. Every class can do this, I remember in one match I was stalemating a superior GWF on 2. I could not beat him, but it took him some time to kill me. So our HR that was rotating would just drop through mid and throw a fox or an interrupt on him and keep going. This bought me just enough time to regen up a little, and for my encounters to come back up. (I was playing GWF in this match). But in matches on my GF, that's the roll I play a lot. Rotating around dropping prones, helping control mid, helping clear points, and taking over for stalematers so they could grab a pot real quick.
This, of course, was during an arranged match, but you can still play that way in pugs, it's just not going to go as smoothly
^^^
+1.
I completely agree with you.I wrote about the whole "protect your team" thing ,cause there are GF guides around that suggest SoS coupled with specific defensive playstyle.
I met mid-high geared GFs who used SoS and it was a complete failure for them.It does not work.Still you can be proned and finished quickly.
(Although SoS can be usefull to slot in an arranged 1v1 with a GWf )
Yep, that's the PvP equivalent of building threat.. being brutal, scary, obnoxious and troublesome. Derail plans, get in peoples' faces, troll tons of enemy players and prey on the weak. Lots of bangs, clangs, distraction and destruction, make life difficult. You probably won't top kills often, but you will cause unrest in the ranks.
One of the nicest compliments I ever had in-game was from a useful HR that I had been suppressing as he kept picking off my team.. afterwards, he /w me, and we got to chatting- about how it was a fun match and so forth. He said something along the lines of "every time I saw you coming, I was like sheeeeeit". That was all the confirmation that I had needed that I doing the right sort of thing
Ugh, don't get me started on SoS GF's. Was playing with a buddy who has a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> destro GWF just to troll around and have fun with. We ran into a GF heavy party and were cracken SoS jokes the entire time. It does NO damage! (Not even to a poorly geared destroyer)
But, but, if you stack the correct stats...... NO IT SUCKS!!!
But, but, if you spec correctly.... NO!!!!!
Well, it can really make a differe..... *SMACK*. NO!!!!!!!!
Now come MoD 3, in open world with all the stupid reflect bonuses you can get from companions..... Well it has the potential to get really fun really quick, but other classes have access to the same bonuses so adding just SOS isent really going to put you ahead by much.
I am a reasonable individual. I saw your opinion on Anvil and Griffon's, proceeded to state why I choose Anvil and was immediately told I was fighting scrubs and stealing kills. I did not even directly address you, simply added my thoughts to the discussion.
Perhaps look at your own responses before trying to infer that others are being unreasonable.
You already responded to those comments I made... on page 5:
Thats what you said so you don't have to go back and look
I have not spoken to you or about you and your ideas since. Why are you bringing this back up? I thought we were done.
Agreed. I rather kill the enemy than to stall. I personally focus heavily on kills than pts. Because with the kills comes pts. If I kill an enemy, he can't cap. If I spawn camp, and kill again, he can't step foot on a node to cause it to halt. Therefore my team continues to receive pts, all while I'm murdering people xD!!
I like this. ^^
But I think it's important to maintain a balance. Sometimes it's worth more to stay on your node and let your opponent get away. Sometimes you have to resist temptation. Honestly, it's a balance I'm still figuring out myself. lol
Oh definitely. If I'm in combat with someone and they run away; no sweat. I'll just finish capping then HUNT THEM DOWN >=D!!
(BTW I'm uploading my new Montage).
If all the above is true, and yet I have a sick team things change again... lmao
EDIT: Sometimes if we are facing a premade and losing I will taunt curse at them until they stop capping nodes and ALL focus on gzerg killing me and I've won a few of these too!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Anvil of doom good if you're team have other frontliners that can absorb damage. You can adjust to give more burst damage. If there are only two frontliners then frotline surge is better to use. I personally dont like grigffons wrath beacause of its slow cast, you get rooted when you cast it, easily dodgaeable, useless when enemy is immune to stun, and low damage every hit.
Bull charge + lunging strike + anvil of doom
Lunging strike + bull strike + threatning rush + anvil of doom
It depends on your play style and your team comp