Prone immunity for a second after getting proned

crazymikee

(In PvP)

Would quite up the QQers if instead of getting proned and in the middle of getting up you get proned again, you get up and have a 1-2 second immunity to prones instead of getting chained for 50-80% of your hp with no way of countering it in any way. It seems like a good idea to me but knowing the GWF / GF community there is going to either be flame or strong opposition so I'm just gunna say if your counter argument is not valid as a balancing act then don't post. If you have even a small chance of escaping then that is good enough to help some opponents get out of sticky situations versus chain prone builds, seeing as of right now there is almost no way to counter them, and the only ways to counter them are counter-productive to the entire PvP match as a whole.

djarkaan

From the same source may be but would have to be applied to all form of CC. if from different source like 2 players syncing prones and cc on one target definitely not.

vcek

Are you talking about prone immunity for all classes ? because i think its going to make a GWF more powerful, it will give him a lot of Determination build up while hes not activating Unstoppable, and once GWF activates Unstoppable, hes back to immunity.

TL;DR in a 1v1 fight, you will only be able to prone a GWF on the first hit only. On the other hand, he will prone you once and wait 2 seconds then prone you again. However in multi player situations, i think prone immunity is going to overpower the piled player.

f2pma

gwf is getting dmg nerf that should be enough.

crazymikee

yea i meant from a single target. only because its hard enough to avoid prone chains as it is with a class than doesnt really have get away abilities like DC and CWs, there basically sitting ducks since both of them realistically do very little damage to comperable GWF / GF who have the same exact offensive if not higher and atleast triple defensive from their gear being more optimized for 1v1 and not AoE, if CW were given a choice between being single target and AoE focus then most of these topics wouldn't be needed

proneification

Prones are the only reliable way to kill fully geared tank chars fast enough.

What you suggest would also kill the last viable CW PvP play style (at high levels), with shard on Mastery.

kolevra

Just dodge the first attack. There's already too much immunity outside of the Shift key. If you cannot dodge the first attack then you have been outplayed and you deserve to take damage.

bucklittle

CC immunity, unless it's a class ability, no.

I get the OP wants CWs to by good in 1v1s, but there is no reason they should be better than other classes at 1v1s.

pando83

Quite simple: no.

Limit the number of fighters that can be stacked in a PvP Group to 2. There, you don't have 3-4 fighters gangbanging people with no chance to fight back.

As for 1v1 fights, quite simple, avoid the first prone, build your PvP toon tanky enough to take a couple of rotations.

Why i say no: right now, outside of a bit underpowered PvP classes like CWs and DCs, we have TRs and HRs being able to kite and avoid damage a LOT. To the point that i see more and more of these guys, expecially TRs, trolling Whole groups of enemies until 1 experienced player butts in and put some pressure on them.

Now, TRs can mix immunities, dodges and stealth to avoid the enemy for long before taking any damage. Or to recover after taking damage. Tearing down the enemy's health with bilethorn before dropping a monster SE on his head. HRs can root, DPS from far, jump in and melee DPS, jump out and root- ranged DPS again.

And after that, what you are basically asking for, is that the fighter (GF or GWF), when he can finally land his prone, can land 1-2 hits and then start over again.

So, for example, the GWF or GF lands his frontline, and then...ok, done with your turn. Now go back to chasing the evading TR/ HR

Cause with tenacity the enemy will be bakc on his feet when you reach him with your threat rush/ sprint, and 1 millisecond after he'll be in dodge immunity again.

Can be brave and try to use takedown first to have a chance to land IBS. Good luck with that if the TR/ HR knows what he's doing.

So, no, unless you also nerf the ability of the other classes to evade my damage.

Buff CWs and DCs in PvP where it's needed. That's better.

rashylewizz

I think the GWF's dps is getting nerfed.

Let's say what comes out of it and go from there

bucklittle

People complaining they're getting CC'd to death in 5v1

spongebob56

proneification wrote: »

What you suggest would also kill the last viable CW PvP play style (at high levels), with shard on Mastery.

The first prone (meatball dropped on head or foe steamrolled by meatball) is the only prone that matters in that case. The second semi-prone (meatball explodes in face) is kinda useful for foes that are high cc resist (eyes halflings) where you can optionally throw out a cheap cc like Entangle or Repel without worry it will be wasted. I could live without that later part if it meant I would be less prone chained. Prone chaining is a crutch for lousy players.

reiwulf

I'm not sure, but i think I get chain proned with 4 attacks or so when facing a GF/GWF (can't remember) many times, it's enough to kill me. I don't think you deserve to get killed because you couldn't evade ONE attack.
Like I said, I'm not sure, maybe there was another player attacking me too, but I'm pretty sure sometimes I get cc chained with lots of attacks from 1 character.

ivantomdisplay

Every decent game (even PW ones) have mechanic that stops u from ping pong your target. Except this one.

proneification

spongebob56 wrote: »

The first prone (meatball dropped on head or foe steamrolled by meatball) is the only prone that matters in that case. The second semi-prone (meatball explodes in face) is kinda useful for foes that are high cc resist (eyes halflings) where you can optionally throw out a cheap cc like Entangle or Repel without worry it will be wasted. I could live without that later part if it meant I would be less prone chained. Prone chaining is a crutch for lousy players.

Prone chaining is a skillful, coordinated maneuver high end PvPers use to burst targets with huge DR and HP that can troll 2-3 pugs.

It's necessary in this state of the game where a certain class has 42-45K HP with lots of deflect and defense.

iliveforpvp

proneification wrote: »

Prone chaining is a skillful, coordinated maneuver high end PvPers use to burst targets with huge DR and HP that can troll 2-3 pugs.

It's necessary in this state of the game where a certain class has 42-45K HP with lots of deflect and defense.

Agreed. GWFs would literally never die without prone chains... I am talking about maxed out PVP GWFs by the way, not random pugs with R6s..

skalt112

proneification wrote: »

Prone chaining is a skillful, coordinated maneuver high end PvPers use to burst targets with huge DR and HP that can troll 2-3 pugs.

It's necessary in this state of the game where a certain class has 42-45K HP with lots of deflect and defense.

This^

Prones are basically all a GF has, other than that they can just stand there and be pummeled as no other attack does enough damage to anyone.

crazymikee

skalt112 wrote: »

This^

Prones are basically all a GF has, other than that they can just stand there and be pummeled as no other attack does enough damage to anyone.

Thats good for all the other classes EXCEPT for the only two with absolutly no CC immunities to speak of, CW and DC. Both of them are always knocked around getting hit once or twice for a majority of their hitpoints, CWs especially since none of their gear is equal to that of other classes, for example T2 pvp gear for CW give around 300 defence while a GWF gets 600, and the GWF also has more offensive bonus on his gear aswell, making it seem that CW is prone to losing every battle since all their gear is half-ase compared to the other classes.

skalt112

crazymikee wrote: »

Thats good for all the other classes EXCEPT for the only two with absolutly no CC immunities to speak of, CW and DC. Both of them are always knocked around getting hit once or twice for a majority of their hitpoints, CWs especially since none of their gear is equal to that of other classes, for example T2 pvp gear for CW give around 300 defence while a GWF gets 600, and the GWF also has more offensive bonus on his gear aswell, making it seem that CW is prone to losing every battle since all their gear is half-ase compared to the other classes.

GWF is getting nerfed though.

kolatmaster

crazymikee wrote: »

Thats good for all the other classes EXCEPT for the only two with absolutly no CC immunities to speak of, CW and DC.

Teleport/Slide makes you immune to CC during it's duration for CWs/DCs via the 'Dodge' effect, yes?

hamletswords

OP, I see you play two CWs and it seems this post is meant to help CWs, but you realize that this would ruin "The Shard Combo" which is the best thing CWs can do in PVP (CC someone, drop shard on their head- 1st prone- hit them again with the same shard- 2nd prone in a row).

And besides, chain-proning is the only thing a GF has and the best thing a GWF has. Take those away and you gut the classes in PVP. And they are avoidable- you can dodge (which, ironically, they cannot do with your shard combo if you time it when they don't have unstoppable/shield). If you run out of dodges, well, that's the cost of being in range of a melee class- you're gonna die.

As someone in this thread said, if you fail to dodge the first prone, you've been outplayed.

But reading through this thread I'm seeing lots of people say GWF is getting nerfed- it's true they're going to be nerfed pretty strongly in PVE, but in PVP they're still going to hit for 10-20k+ Indomidable Battle Strikes, and actually they might hit even harder with some buffs to the destroyer tree.

Plus with companions, people are already talking about getting 50k HP with their GWF on preview in open-field PVP. I wouldn't call that a nerf.

What's getting nerfed is the instant mega-bleeds on crits and the easy 45% mitigation reduction.

skalt112

edyit wrote: »

actually pvpers are crying again...
lets nerf a few more things for pvp to screw up the pve game...

i have an amazing idea that should placate all the pvp QQers, every character in pvp has identical skills, just different graphics, that way it actually comes down to "skill"

This would actually help pve. Not nerf it.

freshour

I am speaking from a GF perspective. But we lost our prones, 40% of them and the ability to chain 2 more after an indomitable daily which also got nerfed, including the knock back that we had that was all we could do to get a good gwf off a point. Yes, I mean good, Enemy Team, Synergy, Chocolate whatever they are now type GWF. Not to mention it bought our time to heal/regen which also got nerfed. So in short, but reducing the prones to a 1 second cool down, the prone lasts for a second, depending the feats the gf slotted, but if it was a second cool down after the prone, that is enough time to artifact, stealth, block, port, slide, or unstoppable aka making the rogue and gwf THAT much harder to kill. I have gone against some of the best TR's on the server, and catching them out of stealth while not in ITC is hard enough with their perfect soulforge and black dye, so limiting the chain I can do to them when I DO get them, c'mon.

You got your 40% reduction in prones AND knockback effectively making the GF's no longer a point holder. I get it, some of you guys are so amazing and can do it, well the truth is, against a good TR, GWF, HR, you will die, and usually unless you have figured out like some of us have to dodge around for a few more seconds, and I mean a few, you'll then die right as your help arrives lol... So get real, this won't happen, if it did, the Guardian would then be THAT much more worthless if it could possibly happen.

I take it you play a CW. And you get proned and killed by a fighter class. You are mad that you can't control us, well it was this whining that got the prone duration AND control duration reduced that made your class even more likely to be killed. So before you go and wave the nerf wand, maybe step back and realize that doing this may actually screw you even more, and then screw the rest of us too, therefore making 1-2 classes extremely unchecked in the neverwinter game of rock paper scissors that is all ready really screwed up. why? Because GWF's, (not after patch we know, you got nerfed, sorry you can't have higher defense, deflect, hp, AND damage than every single class), but HR's and TR's are playing with like 6 fingers lol. TR',s your path got nerfed, but with crit's, it will deal a **** load more damage. Before you complain pull out a calculator lol. It is a lot more damage. So that leaves you HR's left. I'm sorry you'll actually have to figure out how to be on the same playing field as everyone else. Welcome to the club, as a GF I'll just be in the losers corner drinking myself to waste.

bucklittle

The real problem is the OP is using a PVE build

jerewel888

The GWF has already been nerfed in Module 3, STOP COMPLAIN.
Remove prone to GF/GWF is like removing freezing and all CC at CW.

fgreyspear

I do not see anything wrong with builds that focus on a specific strategy to kill an opponent. This is what many players do and should do.

If this is a perma-cloaked TR, who manages to stay cloaked indefinitely, or a CW whose control just will not allow you to get near him, a GF who hits you with a series of stuns or an HR who endlessly roots and dodges you... It does not make it unbalanced but stands out as being a good build in the hands of a capable player.

All classes have something in store to create similar strategies. I see no reason why this needs to be changed.

kattefjaes

fgreyspear wrote: »

I do not see anything wrong with builds that focus on a specific strategy to kill an opponent. This is what many players do and should do.

If this is a perma-cloaked TR, who manages to stay cloaked indefinitely, or a CW whose control just will not allow you to get near him, a GF who hits you with a series of stuns or an HR who endlessly roots and dodges you... It does not make it unbalanced but stands out as being a good build in the hands of a capable player.

All classes have something in store to create similar strategies. I see no reason why this needs to be changed.

Yes, you're completely right. This is a case of "I'm paper, nerf scissors", which is one of the curses of PvP forums. Consider it noise.

vorphied

I could buy diminishing returns, but not full immunity.

Chain CC wouldn't be such a divisive issue if it didn't highlight the fact that GWF, GF, and TR all have simple mechanics for countering/preventing CC while the rest of the classes have virtually nothing aside from an oddball Daily like Maelstrom (lol) or Anointed Army (expires in an instant if being attacked). Ironically, as others have suggested, CC (read: prone) chain potential is necessary to have a shot at putting down GWF and TR.

For the record, the "CW whose control just will not allow you to get near him" is a myth. All classes but DC and CW have ridiculous gap closers, and all of those but HR have those pesky aforementioned mechanics that allow them to frequently ignore CC attempts. CWs are just so easy to counter in PvP lol.

crazymikee

vorphied wrote: »

I could buy diminishing returns, but not full immunity.

Chain CC wouldn't be such a divisive issue if it didn't highlight the fact that GWF, GF, and TR all have simple mechanics for countering/preventing CC while the rest of the classes have virtually nothing aside from an oddball Daily like Maelstrom (lol) or Anointed Army (expires in an instant if being attacked). Ironically, as others have suggested, CC (read: prone) chain potential is necessary to have a shot at putting down GWF and TR.

For the record, the "CW whose control just will not allow you to get near him" is a myth. All classes but DC and CW have ridiculous gap closers, and all of those but HR have those pesky aforementioned mechanics that allow them to frequently ignore CC attempts. CWs are just so easy to counter in PvP lol.

Which is why topics like these are made daily because there is a large percentage of the players who play those classes and shouldn't suffer in PvP because there class simply doesn't even have any immunities but every other class does. Makes no sense and is a stupid design

fgreyspear

crazymikee wrote: »

Which is why topics like these are made daily because there is a large percentage of the players who play those classes and shouldn't suffer in PvP because there class simply doesn't even have any immunities but every other class does. Makes no sense and is a stupid design

That is just not true. A GF using Frontline Surge to prone targets is not immune to it. You may think a GF only needs to raise his guard, but fact is Frontline Surge ignores the guard and sends another GF prone just like every other class.

What makes a difference are the races. Choosing Dwarf as your race gives you 20% resistance to knockbacks. Other races give a bonus to control resistance or slows. If you however went for an Half-Orc Trickster Rogue, because of the extra 5% critical severity then you should not cry about it when you now get pushed around more often than others.

gorguts99

fgreyspear wrote: »

That is just not true. A GF using Frontline Surge to prone targets is not immune to it. You may think a GF only needs to raise his guard, but fact is Frontline Surge ignores the guard and sends another GF prone just like every other class.

That's not true, you can effectively block frontline surge using your shield...