No one is bullying. You don't want to abide to the group rules of a greed run then don't agree to run a dungeon with people who are doing a greed run. Pretty simple.
Oh yes, the players are. A player asks for a greed run, you say no and suddenly you get told to leave or you get kicked.
Worse, it is a healer who then in the middle of a fight refuses to heal you. I then pull as many mobs as I can on top of the healer ... It is good fun. I will not be bullied by anyone. I am having my fun one way or the other, trust me.
Oh yes, the players are. A player asks for a greed run, you say no and suddenly you get told to leave or you get kicked.
Worse, it is a healer who then in the middle of a fight refuses to heal you. I then pull as many mobs as I can on top of the healer ... It is good fun. I will not be bullied by anyone. I am having my fun one way or the other, trust me.
That's not being bullied. Not even close. If I tell people that I want to play a pickup basketball game and you show up with a tennis racket and don't want to play basketball then I'm going to ask you to leave. If someone advertises for a greed run, you show up and don't want to do a greed run then you're going to be asked to leave so they can find someone who does want to do a greed run. This scenario is not within a country mile of bullying.
Oh yes it is. When you ask and get told no, but then do not like my answer and then threaten to kick me then yes that is bullying. Just because I do not let you succeed with it does not make it any less of an attempt.
What in the world even makes you think you can just walk into any group and tell people how they should play their game? Do you think of yourself as being the boss of others??
No one is telling you how to play. They're telling you that if you want to play with them that you're going to have to abide by certain rules. If you don't like the rules then don't play with them.
No one is telling you how to play. They're telling you that if you want to play with them that you're going to have to abide by certain rules. If you don't like the rules then don't play with them.
Yes but exactly the same goes for those who want greed. Sometimes people wake up in the middle of the dungeon and say that it's a greed run, sometimes even after a purple dropped.
I always agree on greed, but if you wake up at the 3rd boss and say that we need to greed, and someone in the party doesn't agree, then he's right and has the right to need. Rules must be stated and agreed on at the begining, too many just assume that "it's a greed run" and they even seem shocked when someone needs.
Why are people still trying to feed this troll? You're not going to change his mind or actions. And unless he is willing to share his character names or @handle. You wont even be able to completely avoid grouping with him. Short of running exclusivaly with friends or guild.
There will always be people like this. Where fair play is just a playground to be abused. You either need to play the game thier way, and take away thier power. Or change the system so it cant be abused.
No one is telling you how to play. They're telling you that if you want to play with them that you're going to have to abide by certain rules. If you don't like the rules then don't play with them.
Answer the question: do you think of yourself as being the boss of others?? You will already know the answer: No, you are not! And you do not get to tell anyone how to play their game.
You can ask, but you have to live with the answers you get. The others did not queue up just to have you tell them how to play their game. The rules are set by the game, not by you. If anyone should leave then it is just you.
Where fair play is just a playground to be abused.
You seem to have missed a few comments. We have already established that the Greed runs are used to deny others their expensive items. Players already said they want to get their hands on the loot of other classes, because they can make more AD with it just by selling it back to those classes.
You want to call this fair?
Or do you just think it is fair, because all your friends do it and so you do it, too?
Why are people still trying to feed this troll? You're not going to change his mind or actions.
Two reasons. One, because he seemed to be drowning out the people who were promoting playing nice with others. I didn't want anyone reading this thread who is relatively new to the game thinking that it is common and rational to prey on greed run groups by trying to nab the boss loot with a "need" vote.
Two, because I found the situation amusing. It's one thing to be an unashamed loot ninja. It's an entirely category of bizarre to see a loot ninja trying to grab the moral high ground and wag his finger at those who try to play nice with others as though he's good and pure and it's all the people who want to do greed runs who are wallowing in moral turpitude.
for anyone wondering how to combat people like fgreyspear:
leader of the party should always be last to choose their loot, they are the enforcer, although, if you're on any type of guild chat, anyone that's aligned with the greed agreement can also begin the vote kick - if an epic is "need"ed, their vote is tossed if they are kicked..
say fgreyspear is in your party. he rolls need, you kick him, and the loot rolls revert to only giving the loot to those that followed the rules.
to fgreyspear, you can only abuse the system if people aren't aware of this, and I have my loot rolls to where they don't interfere with normal gameplay, i can hold the rolls to the very end, and you'll be stuck waiting until boss is dead and just before you get to DD chest before I kick you if you rolled need on anything while partying with me, I'm absolutely unabashed about insta-kicking or really making you pay (letting you run the entire dungeon before kicking you). if you agreed, and then needed, that's the issue. an unknown request for agreement, as our guild does, if it's not in writing, it's not enforceable - if you do it once, it'll slide, if you do it after we have specifically told you that you either agree or GTFO, then it's a kick.
Answer the question: do you think of yourself as being the boss of others?? You will already know the answer: No, you are not! And you do not get to tell anyone how to play their game.
You can ask, but you have to live with the answers you get. The others did not queue up just to have you tell them how to play their game. The rules are set by the game, not by you. If anyone should leave then it is just you.
You're a strange soul. It's odd that you assume to know how I play even though I've given you no indication.
For the record, I have no problem playing in either "need" or "greed" groups. I'll assume need is fine unless things have been specified up front that it is greed. If one person doesn't want to have it be greed, then it's not greed and I'll need on everything I want.
I assume you don't have a problem with that?
The only problem I have is with people who agree up front to a greed run then try to "need" boss drops or "need" all the way through while lying their rears off that it is accidental. Those people I boot and ignore.
You're a strange soul. It's odd that you assume to know how I play even though I've given you no indication.
Here, this is what you wrote: "If I tell people that I want to play a pickup basketball game and you show up with a tennis racket and don't want to play basketball then I'm going to ask you to leave."
If this is not how you approach a group of players then why did you write it? If it is not how you go into a group then I do not see why you wrote it at all. I hope you are not just trying to row back boat now ...
If ANYONE other than fgreyspear turns up to a group and says "greed all ok with everyone?" then that person is a bully and a cheat and a thief trying to deny people their hard-earned AD?
If fgreyspear turns up to a greed run and ninjaloots everything before leaving, then that's being an honest upstanding neverwinter citizen who doesn't give in to bullies?
Here, this is what you wrote: "If I tell people that I want to play a pickup basketball game and you show up with a tennis racket and don't want to play basketball then I'm going to ask you to leave."
If this is not how you approach a group of players then why did you write it? If it is not how you go into a group then I do not see why you wrote it at all. I hope you are not just trying to row back boat now ...
You were assuming that I was a person who forced other people to do greed runs even if they didn't want to. This assumption is false. If I queue for a dungeon and someone doesn't want to do a greed run, then I don't try to make it a greed run and I don't vote kick anyone who wants to "need." This makes your loaded questions about why I think I'm the boss of everyone completely miss their mark.
However, queuing into a random dungeon is different than joining someone elses group that is advertised as a greed run. By joining their group you're agreeing to play by their rules. If someone says "I'm organizing a greed run" and you show up and want to "need" everything they're well within their right to tell you to get lost. That's where the analogy comes in. It is also an entirely different matter if you are a person who will lie their rear off and agree to a greed run in a queued group then just start needing stuff. That's low class.
If all agree then I agree. When then a valuable item drops will I still press Need and say "Sorry, oops, wrong button". I will apologize further and deeply and all the nerds will forgive me.
And yes, people can and should vote kick you every time and are right to do so.
to fgreyspear, you can only abuse the system if people aren't aware of this, and I have my loot rolls to where they don't interfere with normal gameplay, i can hold the rolls to the very end, and you'll be stuck waiting until boss is dead and just before you get to DD chest before I kick you if you rolled need on anything while partying with me, I'm absolutely unabashed about insta-kicking or really making you pay (letting you run the entire dungeon before kicking you). if you agreed, and then needed, that's the issue. an unknown request for agreement, as our guild does, if it's not in writing, it's not enforceable - if you do it once, it'll slide, if you do it after we have specifically told you that you either agree or GTFO, then it's a kick.
So you do what I do. Only do I have the game on my side in that it lets me choose Need over Greed while you first have to find people that agree with you.
You were assuming that I was a person who forced other people to do greed runs even if they didn't want to. This assumption is false.
If this is not who you are then why did you write it? I am not going to quote you again, but your comment clearly shows that you want to set the rules and have everyone leave who does not agree with you.
...I found the situation amusing. It's one thing to be an unashamed loot ninja. It's an entirely category of bizarre to see a loot ninja trying to grab the moral high ground and wag his finger at those who try to play nice with others as though he's good and pure and it's all the people who want to do greed runs who are wallowing in moral turpitude.
This is called behavior of a sociopath (not psychopath - they are different). When one believes that they are actually righteous and moral, when promoting such things as lying, deception, and corruption; when someone thinks that they are right to lie to others, and abuse the system, and then takes "the victim" role, it's a fact that you can only let them go do their own thing, and hope that you do not cross paths with them.
psychopaths are aware that what they do is wrong, sociopaths do not, they believe that their bad actions are the right thing to do, and those that are in opposition are the bad guys.
This is called behavior of a sociopath (not psychopath - they are different). When one believes that they are actually righteous and moral, when promoting such things as lying, deception, and corruption; when someone thinks that they are right to lie to others, and abuse the system, and then takes "the victim" role, it's a fact that you can only let them go do their own thing, and hope that you do not cross paths with them.
psychopaths are aware that what they do is wrong, sociopaths do not, they believe that their bad actions are the right thing to do, and those that are in opposition are the bad guys.
fgreyspear...
All I really do is to hold a mirror into your face. Keep the judgements coming ...
A question, if I may fgreyspear. You and four of your buddies are looking to run a dungeon doing all "need" rolling and you pick up another player who wants to greed everything. You tell them that they can greed if they want but the rest of you will be "need" rolling everything and if they don't like it they can get lost. Would that make you a bully who's trying to tell other people how to play the game?
A question, if I may fgreyspear. You and four of your buddies are looking to run a dungeon doing all "need" rolling and you pick up another player who wants to greed everything. You tell them that they can greed if they want but the rest of you will be "need" rolling everything and if they don't like it they can get lost. Would that make you a bully who's trying to tell other people how to play the game?
Oh, you want to know for sure now. I am actually a very nice person. If I queue up with my guild and we are a man short then we certainly do what everybody can agree to, because we all just want to play the game. We do not tell anyone how to play it. We rather support each other and try to learn from one another as much as we can. This includes guests.
Only when I go solo into open parties and I smell BS will I not complain about it, but turn into the "sociopath". :cool:
This includes PvE as well as PvP. Nobody is save.
By the way, if "me and four buddies" are making a party then we already are five and would not need another player. If you mean in cases where one of my guildies quits and we then get a guest into the party do we say what we are doing. If the new player disagrees do we talk it over until we are all happy.
Oh, you want to know for sure now. I am actually a very nice person. If I queue up with my guild and we are a man short then we certainly do what everybody can agree to, because we all just want to play the game. We do not tell anyone how to play it. We rather support each other and try to learn from one another as much as we can. This includes guests.
Only when I go solo into open parties and I smell BS will I not complain about it, but turn into the "sociopath". :cool:
This includes PvE as well as PvP. Nobody is save.
By the way, if "me and four buddies" are making a party then we already are five and would not need another player. If you mean in cases where one of my guildies quits and we then get a guest into the party do we say what we are doing. If the new player disagrees do we talk it over until we are all happy.
This sounds reasonable, but is in direct confrontation with your earlier statement that "I will tell them i will roll greed, then need what I want and apologize for it, lol". I get that you would not do that in a guild run (or it would quickly become a former guild), but people should be known for their actions when teamed with strangers and not just guild mates.
This sounds reasonable, but is in direct confrontation with your earlier statement that "I will tell them i will roll greed, then need what I want and apologize for it, lol". I get that you would not do that in a guild run (or it would quickly become a former guild), but people should be known for their actions when teamed with strangers and not just guild mates.
It is not a confrontation. I am merely showing what one can do if one does not act naive, which is what the thread is about.
I could just have said that OP is asking the right question and that it is naive, but I see more gain by being mean to others who may or not act mean on purpose. I personally find it extremely rude to kick somebody of a party just because they don't speak English. Hence I screw with every dumbass I can get my hands on.
The Defend The Temple CTA was almost too good to be true. At the end of the event, and after I had seen all sorts of selfish acts during many runs, did I just queue up to pull as many mobs I could get onto the idiotic players. Only on the level 60 groups of course, not the lower levels, and on those who ran off leaving the rest of their party to fight for themselves. Some were actually pretty good and were able to survive the mass of mobs from the four sites that I had pulled. But often it ended in a massacre of dumb players. I then left and went straight into the next party with a big smile on my face. Muahahaha ...
Magic 8 ball is dithering between "sociopath" and "idiot".
Seriously you tried to ruin CTAs for completely random unknown people because of the behaviour of other completely random unknown people? That doesn't even make sense, let alone fall under any generally accepted behavioural norm.
Comments
Worse, it is a healer who then in the middle of a fight refuses to heal you. I then pull as many mobs as I can on top of the healer ... It is good fun. I will not be bullied by anyone. I am having my fun one way or the other, trust me.
That's not being bullied. Not even close. If I tell people that I want to play a pickup basketball game and you show up with a tennis racket and don't want to play basketball then I'm going to ask you to leave. If someone advertises for a greed run, you show up and don't want to do a greed run then you're going to be asked to leave so they can find someone who does want to do a greed run. This scenario is not within a country mile of bullying.
What in the world even makes you think you can just walk into any group and tell people how they should play their game? Do you think of yourself as being the boss of others??
Yes but exactly the same goes for those who want greed. Sometimes people wake up in the middle of the dungeon and say that it's a greed run, sometimes even after a purple dropped.
I always agree on greed, but if you wake up at the 3rd boss and say that we need to greed, and someone in the party doesn't agree, then he's right and has the right to need. Rules must be stated and agreed on at the begining, too many just assume that "it's a greed run" and they even seem shocked when someone needs.
There will always be people like this. Where fair play is just a playground to be abused. You either need to play the game thier way, and take away thier power. Or change the system so it cant be abused.
You can ask, but you have to live with the answers you get. The others did not queue up just to have you tell them how to play their game. The rules are set by the game, not by you. If anyone should leave then it is just you.
You want to call this fair?
Or do you just think it is fair, because all your friends do it and so you do it, too?
Two reasons. One, because he seemed to be drowning out the people who were promoting playing nice with others. I didn't want anyone reading this thread who is relatively new to the game thinking that it is common and rational to prey on greed run groups by trying to nab the boss loot with a "need" vote.
Two, because I found the situation amusing. It's one thing to be an unashamed loot ninja. It's an entirely category of bizarre to see a loot ninja trying to grab the moral high ground and wag his finger at those who try to play nice with others as though he's good and pure and it's all the people who want to do greed runs who are wallowing in moral turpitude.
This comment deserves to be put on a pedestal for sheer ballsy nonsense.
And if you still can't see why it's nonsense, then I am utterly at a loss as to how to educate you.
leader of the party should always be last to choose their loot, they are the enforcer, although, if you're on any type of guild chat, anyone that's aligned with the greed agreement can also begin the vote kick - if an epic is "need"ed, their vote is tossed if they are kicked..
say fgreyspear is in your party. he rolls need, you kick him, and the loot rolls revert to only giving the loot to those that followed the rules.
to fgreyspear, you can only abuse the system if people aren't aware of this, and I have my loot rolls to where they don't interfere with normal gameplay, i can hold the rolls to the very end, and you'll be stuck waiting until boss is dead and just before you get to DD chest before I kick you if you rolled need on anything while partying with me, I'm absolutely unabashed about insta-kicking or really making you pay (letting you run the entire dungeon before kicking you). if you agreed, and then needed, that's the issue. an unknown request for agreement, as our guild does, if it's not in writing, it's not enforceable - if you do it once, it'll slide, if you do it after we have specifically told you that you either agree or GTFO, then it's a kick.
You're a strange soul. It's odd that you assume to know how I play even though I've given you no indication.
For the record, I have no problem playing in either "need" or "greed" groups. I'll assume need is fine unless things have been specified up front that it is greed. If one person doesn't want to have it be greed, then it's not greed and I'll need on everything I want.
I assume you don't have a problem with that?
The only problem I have is with people who agree up front to a greed run then try to "need" boss drops or "need" all the way through while lying their rears off that it is accidental. Those people I boot and ignore.
Here, this is what you wrote: "If I tell people that I want to play a pickup basketball game and you show up with a tennis racket and don't want to play basketball then I'm going to ask you to leave."
If this is not how you approach a group of players then why did you write it? If it is not how you go into a group then I do not see why you wrote it at all. I hope you are not just trying to row back boat now ...
If ANYONE other than fgreyspear turns up to a group and says "greed all ok with everyone?" then that person is a bully and a cheat and a thief trying to deny people their hard-earned AD?
If fgreyspear turns up to a greed run and ninjaloots everything before leaving, then that's being an honest upstanding neverwinter citizen who doesn't give in to bullies?
Welcome to bizarro world, ladies and gents.
You were assuming that I was a person who forced other people to do greed runs even if they didn't want to. This assumption is false. If I queue for a dungeon and someone doesn't want to do a greed run, then I don't try to make it a greed run and I don't vote kick anyone who wants to "need." This makes your loaded questions about why I think I'm the boss of everyone completely miss their mark.
However, queuing into a random dungeon is different than joining someone elses group that is advertised as a greed run. By joining their group you're agreeing to play by their rules. If someone says "I'm organizing a greed run" and you show up and want to "need" everything they're well within their right to tell you to get lost. That's where the analogy comes in. It is also an entirely different matter if you are a person who will lie their rear off and agree to a greed run in a queued group then just start needing stuff. That's low class.
And yes, you are that guy:
And yes, people can and should vote kick you every time and are right to do so.
This is called behavior of a sociopath (not psychopath - they are different). When one believes that they are actually righteous and moral, when promoting such things as lying, deception, and corruption; when someone thinks that they are right to lie to others, and abuse the system, and then takes "the victim" role, it's a fact that you can only let them go do their own thing, and hope that you do not cross paths with them.
psychopaths are aware that what they do is wrong, sociopaths do not, they believe that their bad actions are the right thing to do, and those that are in opposition are the bad guys.
fgreyspear...
Ah, the "I'm rubber you're glue" defense. A classic.
Only when I go solo into open parties and I smell BS will I not complain about it, but turn into the "sociopath". :cool:
This includes PvE as well as PvP. Nobody is save.
By the way, if "me and four buddies" are making a party then we already are five and would not need another player. If you mean in cases where one of my guildies quits and we then get a guest into the party do we say what we are doing. If the new player disagrees do we talk it over until we are all happy.
This sounds reasonable, but is in direct confrontation with your earlier statement that "I will tell them i will roll greed, then need what I want and apologize for it, lol". I get that you would not do that in a guild run (or it would quickly become a former guild), but people should be known for their actions when teamed with strangers and not just guild mates.
I could just have said that OP is asking the right question and that it is naive, but I see more gain by being mean to others who may or not act mean on purpose. I personally find it extremely rude to kick somebody of a party just because they don't speak English. Hence I screw with every dumbass I can get my hands on.
The Defend The Temple CTA was almost too good to be true. At the end of the event, and after I had seen all sorts of selfish acts during many runs, did I just queue up to pull as many mobs I could get onto the idiotic players. Only on the level 60 groups of course, not the lower levels, and on those who ran off leaving the rest of their party to fight for themselves. Some were actually pretty good and were able to survive the mass of mobs from the four sites that I had pulled. But often it ended in a massacre of dumb players. I then left and went straight into the next party with a big smile on my face. Muahahaha ...
Seriously you tried to ruin CTAs for completely random unknown people because of the behaviour of other completely random unknown people? That doesn't even make sense, let alone fall under any generally accepted behavioural norm.
**Cannot add to ignore list fast enough**
He does that a lot.....let us just point and laugh
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]