Buffing all classes aoe's wouldn't really work. Well it wouldn't have the intended effect, there are supposed to be differences between the classes and those differences should be useful. Make everyone good at aoe and you just have AOE The Game: Neverwinter. Better to design dungeons to rely on class distinctiveness like having monsters that can only take damage from behind that do heavy damage and resets aggro frquently so a gf kiting it away from the squishies with hard taunts would make sense and turn into a brutally unfair challenge without one.
I totally agree this would be better BUT the chances of Devs coming up with new dungeon design ideas that don't involve an ungodly amount of adds any time soon is pretty slim to zero. And them finding the time to update the older dungeons is even less likely.
Right now I feel their priority should be to make all classes fairly desirable, and the easiest way to do that is AoE buffs. After that is sorted out then they could work on the much more demanding task of redesigning dungeons and the mobs therein.
I honestly am not sure what to do with a GF to make this work. Because the GWF already provides it, AND had higher damage output. Even if you buffed the GF damage, it would be hard to justify buffing it higher than GWF since GF has the armor and health.
Again I'm not seeing a workable solution here for GF that's going to make anything any better for them. Even if you buffed them.
Buffing the AoE damage of the GF (or at least one of its lines, say Conqueror) to where it is close but slightly below that of a GWF would work fine. The GWF/GF role in that particular scenario would be pretty much interchangeable. Problem solved.
The GF could still have a pure tank line (can't imagine why anyone would care for this though), and a hybrid one also.
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silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Really the only way you get downed in a 5 cw party is if you run and drag mobs to make a mob ball and you are the last guy in the line. Then the ranged mobs might take you down. Unless you decide to stop and kill them. No one likes missing the start of a boss fight though.
That's what it comes down to in an all CW party and why you do have to be pretty good to operate one efficiently. The squishy party does come back to bite you. When it works, it works great, but when it doesn't... well...
With this kind of party, you either win big... you lose big.
I personally prefer the 2GWF, 2CW, 1DC party. This one keeps all the mobs in ONE spot, and is capable of handling any challenge without having to go into more advanced coordination for specific parts of dungeons so they don't accidently wipe as they're too squishy.
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silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Buffing the AoE damage of the GF (or at least one of its lines, say Conqueror) to where it is close but slightly below that of a GWF would work fine. The GWF/GF role in that particular scenario would be pretty much interchangeable. Problem solved.
The GF could still have a pure tank line (can't imagine why anyone would care for this though), and a hybrid one also.
Well if you're going that direction...
Technically then they should just combine both into one class called... Fighter... with the ability to swap gear and gear types depending on the needs of the situation. If it was a single class that was more flexible to either situation it would solve a great many problems.
Technically then they should just combine both into one class called... Fighter... with the ability to swap gear and gear types depending on the needs of the situation. If it was a single class that was more flexible to either situation it would solve a great many problems.
Well, this is what they should have done in the first place.
Right now though I can't really see any other option for balancing the GF for PvE that has a realistic chance of being implemented in the foreseeable future.
Oh i wasn't saying the group would go down, just the guy at the back
Trust me, the whole group can be wiped in the wrong circumstances when everyone isn't on their toes, or they step on each other's Singularity or the mobs teleport and stun or... etc .... There's a lot of things that go wrong in a hurry depending on the encounters, dungeon, and mobs. And it requires coordination.
It's the kind of party that either wins big, or loses big, because you can sure hose it up in a hurry.
Its not exactly a sure thing. When it works, it works great, but.. there is the flipped side of it.
Ive run through cn often enough with 5 wizards to know that it requires very little coordination, stuff just falls around the place. The only real challenge is using suddenstorm (probably shouldnt) because stuff will be dead or have been shard or op bounced by the time it arrives
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silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Ive run through cn often enough with 5 wizards to know that it requires very little coordination, stuff just falls around the place. The only real challenge is using suddenstorm (probably shouldnt) because stuff will be dead or have been shard or op bounced by the time it arrives
Do you ONLY run CN?
There's other dungeons out there besides that one. That said... even the mass skeleton attack in the first part can shockingly wipe an entire squishy party if they're not coordinated.
While I certainly would make exception for people with Rank 9-10 Enchants and uber gear... but I already know anything lesser that's not coordinated can and will wipe if they're not on their toes.
Yesterday I did epic dungeon for testing idk name but last boss was a big worm lol im no pve expert
Anyway I was really pissed off that a gf in party had almost same dmg at me on gwf I have 16.7k gs 6k power 3k crit 2.5k ap he had 12k power (doubled coz of feat ) 2k crit 1.5k ap
My final dmg was 13m his was 11m the rest were very low 5m and 4m cw and tr
What I dont understand how that gf has almost same dmg as gwf..is that normal or im doing it wrong?
Im sent IV I use froneline, battle strike , take down and slam plus rush and aoe at will
So what did I do wrong?
Killy2
SENT IV GWF - PVP
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yesterday I did epic dungeon for testing idk name but last boss was a big worm lol im no pve expert
Anyway I was really pissed off that a gf in party had almost same dmg at me on gwf I have 16.7k gs 6k power 3k crit 2.5k ap he had 12k power (doubled coz of feat ) 2k crit 1.5k ap
My final dmg was 13m his was 11m the rest were very low 5m and 4m cw and tr
What I dont understand how that gf has almost same dmg as gwf..is that normal or im doing it wrong?
Im sent IV I use froneline, battle strike , take down and slam plus rush and aoe at will
So what did I do wrong?
You're running PvP tanky spec for PvE?
Not gonna work... at least not gonna do the godly damage a PvE GWF can do.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Im sent IV I use froneline, battle strike , take down and slam plus rush and aoe at will
So what did I do wrong?
You're using the wrong rotation.
Not-so-fast, Mighty Leap, IBS. Threatening Rush and Wicked Strike. Replacing Mighty Leap with Frontline is also ok now it hits 5 targets.
Passives: Weapon Master and Trample the Fallen.
Dailies: Avalanche of Steel and Spinning Strike
Run in->Threatening rush mark everything, Not-So-Fast to proc Trample, then a Wicked Strike Rotation followed with renewing marks and Leap+IBS. Avalanche has a) no target limit and b) procs trample. Spinning strike has higher base damage and procs larger bleeds, but a 5 target cap(easily overcome by spinning through the zerg).
You should also be wearing AoW. My GWF has both AoW and PvP tenacity gear and swaps for PvE.
You can do some relly solid damage even with a tanky sent build. You're only gonna be comparing to a 13k CW, but it's still a heck of a lot of damage.
Not-so-fast, Mighty Leap, IBS. Threatening Rush and Wicked Strike. Replacing Mighty Leap with Frontline is also ok now it hits 5 targets.
Passives: Weapon Master and Trample the Fallen.
Dailies: Avalanche of Steel and Spinning Strike
Run in->Threatening rush mark everything, Not-So-Fast to proc Trample, then a Wicked Strike Rotation followed with renewing marks and Leap+IBS. Avalanche has a) no target limit and b) procs trample. Spinning strike has higher base damage and procs larger bleeds, but a 5 target cap(easily overcome by spinning through the zerg).
You should also be wearing AoW. My GWF has both AoW and PvP tenacity gear and swaps for PvE.
You can do some relly solid damage even with a tanky sent build. You're only gonna be comparing to a 13k CW, but it's still a heck of a lot of damage.
Thanks alot, I will be testing that out to see the dmg overal difference later today
The fastest setup in this game (and i said it a lot of times) is KC GF, 2xHV CW, pve specced GWF and HP DC, with GPF & P.Terror between them, that setup makes all the content ridiculous and you can pull any kind/number of mobs and they're dead before the first sing ends, and you just melt bosses at a stupid ridiculous speed (syndrith dying in 30ish seconds and not being able to transform, 1st boss in FH not being able to freeze himself, 2min avg draco, 3 min fulminorax, 5 min VT val because you spend 150 seconds running), 30-40k at wills... etc...
Now, GWFs & CWs are the kings in PvE because they shine in any party setup, at any gear score, with any kind of skill level of the player, and mass will always go with the known comodities.
This topic is so redundant its boring... but i will bite the bait again and put a serie of patchwork that can save the day without reworking the whole game dessign(the real problem).
GF: Double the speed of cleave, smooth away all animations, increase uptime of Into the fray <--- perfect class for pve and greaat for pvp.
TR: Return the old bleed to them, or dessign bosses that really need a rogue, they're in a rough spot for PvE now, and they're the hardest class to fix now, but returning the stoopid single target dps to PvE would give them a slot in most non uber geared/min-maxed parties.
HR: Give them a good party buff/debuff to stack instead of 1 of the CWs, fix the stupid threat generation that split shot causes.
DC: They're ok, they are absolutely needed for normal parties and their debuffs are awesome in the high end ones, but give them some dps to make them something else than buff-astral shield bots.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The fastest setup in this game (and i said it a lot of times) is KC GF, 2xHV CW, pve specced GWF and HP DC, with GPF & P.Terror between them, that setup makes all the content ridiculous and you can pull any kind/number of mobs and they're dead before the first sing ends, and you just melt bosses at a stupid ridiculous speed (syndrith dying in 30ish seconds and not being able to transform, 1st boss in FH not being able to freeze himself, 2min avg draco, 3 min fulminorax, 5 min VT val because you spend 150 seconds running), 30-40k at wills... etc...
Now, GWFs & CWs are the kings in PvE because they shine in any party setup, at any gear score, with any kind of skill level of the player, and mass will always go with the known comodities.
This topic is so redundant its boring... but i will bite the bait again and put a serie of patchwork that can save the day without reworking the whole game dessign(the real problem).
GF: Double the speed of cleave, smooth away all animations, increase uptime of Into the fray <--- perfect class for pve and greaat for pvp.
TR: Return the old bleed to them, or dessign bosses that really need a rogue, they're in a rough spot for PvE now, and they're the hardest class to fix now, but returning the stoopid single target dps to PvE would give them a slot in most non uber geared/min-maxed parties.
HR: Give them a good party buff/debuff to stack instead of 1 of the CWs, fix the stupid threat generation that split shot causes.
DC: They're ok, they are absolutely needed for normal parties and their debuffs are awesome in the high end ones, but give them some dps to make them something else than buff-astral shield bots.
with tenacity they really should be able to return TR to single target kings since they gimped their dmg for pvp. once they nerf permastealth they're pretty much going to have to.
I don't know if they can return TR dmg to what it was (it's currently about 25% of what it used to be), but they could at least double their current dmg.
Mostly yeah, its the most reliable ad when you know a lot of people that you can trust to split loot fairly. You could run tos ten times and end up with a bunch of dark bracers of lolth and bound stuff from the box of trash of you could do half the number of cn runs in the same time (overall because of the amount of bull****ting that occurs after a boss dies) and get a few 100k ad the next day. Unless you get unlucky and only get cheap trash but you get gf stuff less than you getabolethetic cloaks from sp. Still better than dark bracers or grand dragon eye symbol that karrundax always has.
I would not exactly happily run a five wizard party through any of those because I find wizard stacking tedious and painful but not with real worries either. It would really only get dicey in dreadvault i suspect. I don't know. Everyone hates that buggy terrible dungeon.
Comments
I totally agree this would be better BUT the chances of Devs coming up with new dungeon design ideas that don't involve an ungodly amount of adds any time soon is pretty slim to zero. And them finding the time to update the older dungeons is even less likely.
Right now I feel their priority should be to make all classes fairly desirable, and the easiest way to do that is AoE buffs. After that is sorted out then they could work on the much more demanding task of redesigning dungeons and the mobs therein.
Buffing the AoE damage of the GF (or at least one of its lines, say Conqueror) to where it is close but slightly below that of a GWF would work fine. The GWF/GF role in that particular scenario would be pretty much interchangeable. Problem solved.
The GF could still have a pure tank line (can't imagine why anyone would care for this though), and a hybrid one also.
That's what it comes down to in an all CW party and why you do have to be pretty good to operate one efficiently. The squishy party does come back to bite you. When it works, it works great, but when it doesn't... well...
With this kind of party, you either win big... you lose big.
I personally prefer the 2GWF, 2CW, 1DC party. This one keeps all the mobs in ONE spot, and is capable of handling any challenge without having to go into more advanced coordination for specific parts of dungeons so they don't accidently wipe as they're too squishy.
Well if you're going that direction...
Technically then they should just combine both into one class called... Fighter... with the ability to swap gear and gear types depending on the needs of the situation. If it was a single class that was more flexible to either situation it would solve a great many problems.
Well, this is what they should have done in the first place.
Right now though I can't really see any other option for balancing the GF for PvE that has a realistic chance of being implemented in the foreseeable future.
Trust me, the whole group can be wiped in the wrong circumstances when everyone isn't on their toes, or they step on each other's Singularity or the mobs teleport and stun or... etc .... There's a lot of things that go wrong in a hurry depending on the encounters, dungeon, and mobs. And it requires coordination.
It's the kind of party that either wins big, or loses big, because you can sure hose it up in a hurry.
Its not exactly a sure thing. When it works, it works great, but.. there is the flipped side of it.
Do you ONLY run CN?
There's other dungeons out there besides that one. That said... even the mass skeleton attack in the first part can shockingly wipe an entire squishy party if they're not coordinated.
While I certainly would make exception for people with Rank 9-10 Enchants and uber gear... but I already know anything lesser that's not coordinated can and will wipe if they're not on their toes.
Anyway I was really pissed off that a gf in party had almost same dmg at me on gwf I have 16.7k gs 6k power 3k crit 2.5k ap he had 12k power (doubled coz of feat ) 2k crit 1.5k ap
My final dmg was 13m his was 11m the rest were very low 5m and 4m cw and tr
What I dont understand how that gf has almost same dmg as gwf..is that normal or im doing it wrong?
Im sent IV I use froneline, battle strike , take down and slam plus rush and aoe at will
So what did I do wrong?
SENT IV GWF - PVP
You're running PvP tanky spec for PvE?
Not gonna work... at least not gonna do the godly damage a PvE GWF can do.
You're using the wrong rotation.
Not-so-fast, Mighty Leap, IBS. Threatening Rush and Wicked Strike. Replacing Mighty Leap with Frontline is also ok now it hits 5 targets.
Passives: Weapon Master and Trample the Fallen.
Dailies: Avalanche of Steel and Spinning Strike
Run in->Threatening rush mark everything, Not-So-Fast to proc Trample, then a Wicked Strike Rotation followed with renewing marks and Leap+IBS. Avalanche has a) no target limit and b) procs trample. Spinning strike has higher base damage and procs larger bleeds, but a 5 target cap(easily overcome by spinning through the zerg).
You should also be wearing AoW. My GWF has both AoW and PvP tenacity gear and swaps for PvE.
You can do some relly solid damage even with a tanky sent build. You're only gonna be comparing to a 13k CW, but it's still a heck of a lot of damage.
Thanks alot, I will be testing that out to see the dmg overal difference later today
SENT IV GWF - PVP
Now, GWFs & CWs are the kings in PvE because they shine in any party setup, at any gear score, with any kind of skill level of the player, and mass will always go with the known comodities.
This topic is so redundant its boring... but i will bite the bait again and put a serie of patchwork that can save the day without reworking the whole game dessign(the real problem).
GF: Double the speed of cleave, smooth away all animations, increase uptime of Into the fray <--- perfect class for pve and greaat for pvp.
TR: Return the old bleed to them, or dessign bosses that really need a rogue, they're in a rough spot for PvE now, and they're the hardest class to fix now, but returning the stoopid single target dps to PvE would give them a slot in most non uber geared/min-maxed parties.
HR: Give them a good party buff/debuff to stack instead of 1 of the CWs, fix the stupid threat generation that split shot causes.
DC: They're ok, they are absolutely needed for normal parties and their debuffs are awesome in the high end ones, but give them some dps to make them something else than buff-astral shield bots.
I don't know if they can return TR dmg to what it was (it's currently about 25% of what it used to be), but they could at least double their current dmg.
Followed closely by gwfs since mod2 and hrs.
Mostly yeah, its the most reliable ad when you know a lot of people that you can trust to split loot fairly. You could run tos ten times and end up with a bunch of dark bracers of lolth and bound stuff from the box of trash of you could do half the number of cn runs in the same time (overall because of the amount of bull****ting that occurs after a boss dies) and get a few 100k ad the next day. Unless you get unlucky and only get cheap trash but you get gf stuff less than you getabolethetic cloaks from sp. Still better than dark bracers or grand dragon eye symbol that karrundax always has.
I would not exactly happily run a five wizard party through any of those because I find wizard stacking tedious and painful but not with real worries either. It would really only get dicey in dreadvault i suspect. I don't know. Everyone hates that buggy terrible dungeon.