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highest dmg classes in dungeons?
doggy009
Member Posts: 5 Arc User
I have been wondering what is the highest "dmg delt" class in dungeons and skirmish?
I wanted to see how my dmg scale as a gwf so I went ahead to try a skirmish and was surprised that it was alot higher than others so they must have had very low gs
And I think it equal gears a gwf might be on top because of no need to dodge and avoid most hits just old school hulk smashes unlike other classes
I havent done any dungeons so I dont know
I wanted to see how my dmg scale as a gwf so I went ahead to try a skirmish and was surprised that it was alot higher than others so they must have had very low gs
And I think it equal gears a gwf might be on top because of no need to dodge and avoid most hits just old school hulk smashes unlike other classes
I havent done any dungeons so I dont know
Killy2
SENT IV GWF - PVP
SENT IV GWF - PVP
Post edited by doggy009 on
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And with Deep Gash not being tweaked yet, GWFs even outdamage TRs in single target damage.
The real problem isn't necessarily massive waves, those should be there but they shouldn't be the only thing, there's not much variety in encounter style... its almost all AoE encounters.
So single target damagers and tanks are never able to show off their stuff.
Ideally, you should see massive waves at some point, but you should also see very strong boss mobs that need to be tanked, and Elite mobs you can flank, and traps that can kill and locked doors (aka need for rogues), and things that don't require AoEs as well. But when there's only one encounter type 90% of the time, that plays to one specific class type all the time, then there are going to be issues.
Dungeon encounters should be a variety of different types that take advantage of everyone's skills. That's really what's happening at present. There's too many of one kind of encounter, not enough of the others. Worse the DD queing system creates groups as if they were all single target encounter based... exacerbating the problem.
While massive waves of mobs can be harrowing and get your blood pumping, they also require a lot of AoE and/or crowd control support to handle them, which creates a higher demand for the classes that can do that.
Range + non-target capped AoE damage abilities + control is a devastating combination.
There are 2-3 GWFs I never saw outdamaged in CN... maybe only if they needed to AFK some time.
I suspect a CW purely specced for PvE damage, without life steal and other tanky stuff will do same amount of DPS though if played properly and if with all r10s and stuff.
I know at least 10 CWs who I could say the same thing about. The reason why stacking CWs is and always has been the most effective option (a couple of not-WAI instance aside) ever since Open Beta is pretty obvious...
what happens is that the cw has " explosions damage " , provided by encounters ( iv is not far behind , but we abstract away ) . In other words , over 10 seconds, one gwf would do more damage but enemies , generally do not survive 3 .
if the game had only these two classes , I 'd say he's well balanced , offensively and defensively for pve . The feats of the destroyer are a mess , but the t1/t5 work very well now, I can not deny .
Now both the two experiments ; gwf > cw or cw > gwf depends...
For example : I got tired of seeing gwf from right gear , running against a horde makes its rotation , take 6326233 potions , and when only missing 2 enemies , run to the new horde while his companions are ending the service . I HATE " kamikaze style" , but that's to be expected from a player 16k in dungeons 9k . If he could not do this is that it would be a sign that the class did not go well ( given the characteristics of gwf ) .
If cw > gwf : as the cw has the " blast damage " if you have a more " peaceful style" and run with multiple cw is possible that all the enemies are dead until you arrive at the same ... and this exemplifies the previous behavior .
ps : I've seen rangers doing incredible damage too ... but I am unaware of the potential class.
Ps2 : the rogue is fantastic , but it's fantastic in an individual way , which personally I do not like . But that's another discussion .
You bring out the key point: CW damage is more based on burst, while GWF is more sustained.
What tends to tip the actual DPS charts in favour of CWs is that as GS improves, burst becomes more important as the mobs simply don't survive long enough for the GWF's sustained DPS to come into play. And of course this only gets more one-sided with the steady GS inflation we have been seeing.
EDIT:
Actually this is connected with what you mentioned before. If the burst from the CWs isn't too powerful, then the HR's at-wills can do excellent damage. But for very similar reasons although to an even greater extent, HR DPS gets dominated by CWs as GS increases.
Actually the surprising thing is, HRs are able to do comparable damage.
What I notice though, is that most tend to rely solely on their archery which will never compete with CW AoE.
But when they combine their archery with melee, then their damage tends to be right up there. I had never seen a ranger outdamage me without other factors coming into play... until I witnessed one legitimately do so using BOTH their archery and melee in combination.
So perhaps being a new class some haven't quite adjusted to its full potential yet.
That is followed not far behind by the GWF
Then a fair way back you have the HR
Miles further back is the TR
Then the GF sits only in front of the DC
Seen a few good Rangers that swap between melee and range, and this does seem to help which make sense since the Ranger's abilities show it is designed as a melee/range hybrid.
But at higher skill and GS levels I still haven't seen any HR that can match a top-notch GWF let alone a CW in DPS.
I can answer that one...
Its because the Devs reversed themselves and decided to "fix" the "control part" instead... leaving only the AoE damage.
Not sure why they took the class in that direction considering what was originally intended, but that's what it is now and they're sticking to it. And it achieves that purpose very very well.
pretty much this...They should have taken it the other way.. stacking CWs still provides easily enough CC to get swiftly through any dungeon.. but with there dps they can burn it down so quickly. really looking back they should have kept the CC and nerfed down there dps.... they screwed that one up.. the question is when they introduce the next class.. a Dps mage.. well does the CW get the dps nerf then.. I mean it couldn't be good for the game for them to introduce a new highest dps class... everything will be easy mode
A dead mob is pretty much as "controlled" as it can get. Technically, the wizard is still living up to its name
two cw one with opressive force spamming nong stop will outdps gwf in my experience
More paragons is all that is needed.
One DPS paragon (MoF should have been this one...), and one CC paragon, and one hybrid, so people can choose.
Because as of now, CW is, as I explained so many times, the Ranged DPS magic class, just as GWF is Melee Physical DPS class. They should BOTH be at top of DPS charts, together with TR and HR. The better and most geared players should win the DPS race. Even GFs and DCs should have hybrid DPS/tank DPS/heals/buffs paragons, but of course, hybrids should not deal as much damage as pure DPS.
with the right spec.
Except that there is no reason for a single class to be so far ahead of others in AoE DPS since Open Beta either, let alone having control and debuff abilities on top. Saying that the only reason CWs are the best DPS is because the Devs nerfed their Control ability is spectacularly missing the point. In fact the Devs nerfed the aspect of CWs that was fine, and utterly failed to realise that is the DPS issues that are what is making other classes less desirable.
As a matter of fact the Devs could increase CWs control ability, or even remove it totally, and the 3 CW endgame 'meta' would still remain as that has little to do with their control abilities and everything to do with their AoE DPs capabilities.
EDIT:
Quite possibly, but in a dungeon no-one is going to have the highest DPS if they try to focus one mob down at a time...
I can definitely assure you the reason CW are all about AoEs is about the control powers being nerfed.
I used to be able to do full control on Dread Vault Tier 2 with ONE control wizard prior to the Action Point nerf to Choke and the other control powers that affected Singularity and their length and duration. Mind you this was back in July long before the expansions.
Now? To do the same thing it takes 3 control wizards because you can't gain action points fast enough for the setup, the old ways simply no longer work. And this mind you... is one of the few dungeons you can and actually have to go full control power encounters on as everything in there is actually affected by them which in many dungeons is not the case. And you can Repel things over the edge. What used to take one control wizard, now takes 3 just to run pure crowd control. Especially in the end boss fight.
Secondly
I assume your point is, nerf CWs AoE and suddenly and mysteriously all other classes will be wanted...
No class is going to suddenly and mysteriously be wanted unless they have some kind of major AoE due to dungeon design being almost exclusively AoE or Crowd Crowd control related encounters. And yes I can assure you Rangers are in demand too and competitive as are GWFs, what gets Rangers is that there are so many you can choke a horse with them.
What are not in demand... are the single target classes that can't compete in an AoE related environments no matter what they do. No amount of Nerfs or Buffing is going to change this.
And you would be wrong as DPS is the main factor in endgame dungeons, and will get more so as average GS levels rise with artifacts/boons, etc.
Remember that joke of a GWF class? Then it got its DPS greatly buffed and it is suddenly the most desired class after CWs. Note that the Devs increased its DPS and not its 'control'....
Then your assumption would be totally wrong. Because:
is almost exactly my point of view as well. Buff the less wanted classes AoE abilities and just like the GWF they will have their place. (Not sure how well this would work for the TR which could really suck for them
If the Devs want to design every dungeon with 10000000 adds, then that it what they are going to do. But at least give every class a (near) equal chance to contribute in those situations...
That's because GWF is an AoE class, a melee one, but still an AoE class suited to this kind of environment so it could be buffed. You can boost AoE damage classes in an AoE related encounters and it will affect that single class.
But that does nothing for the majority of other classes that are single target based.
So its a moot point.
But that does absolutely nothing for the real classes that are having the problems, they're still going to have them.
Do you really think Rangers OR GWFs have trouble getting groups? They don't really, they're just as wanted.
Nor do DCs. All of those classes have a place and are accepted in this kind of environment. If they didn't there wouldn't be enough Rangers running around to choke a horse.
The people that DO have problems..... are TRs and GFs. But there's nothing that you can do for them as they weren't designed to compete in that kind of environment, so short of changing that environment,
You can't fix what really needs fixing.
You missed his/her point. You are making the assumption, rightly so, that all classes basically have dual function. GF Tanks with some damage. DC heals with some debuff/damage or the reverse. GWF Can tank with some damage or...tank with great damage? CW's still control(less...but still lots) and do tons of damage. HR's do damage...and what else exactly? The disparity is too great, GWF/CW/HR @Should@ be all up for grabs in the AoE DPS department depending on party/enemy composition.
As it is now you have 1 God pve class that makes Everybody else life so much easier(Quality of life bonuses to party) and does absolute tip top AoE DPS which, surprize!, is what is needed in 80% of the games content. You have one full Tier 1 DPS(again, for AoE..most of content) that can take hits like a boss or three. So DPS and quality of life bonuses to party again. Then comes HR. Damage...and damage? Oh right, less damage potential the higher and higher GS the previous two classes reach. With basically no quality of life bonuses for the party. The meager buffs one could use are largely irrelevant and simply not needed at all, not to mention losing personal DPS to boot if you do slot them. Then of course you have the poor state TR/GF is in for, again, 80% of the content.
Simply put burst DPS trumps sustain every time once burst potential reaches or nears mob HP values. Add more HP to mobs, add more control resistant mobs and more elite type mobs that can actually move quickly, add more meaningful party bonuses to other classes. Add real reasons to bring a TR/GF other than flavor or a desire to play it like the good ol days. Do all this without negatively impacting pvp
PS: I pulled the 80% content number Straight out of me HAMSTER. No idea, but we all know it's high
Well just like the GWF, a GF has AoE skills and at-wills so there is no reason whatsoever why buffing their AoE damage shouldn't work.
As for TR, yeah, that could be an issue. My suggestions would help there and there are probably some others that work.
I have absolutely no idea why you think that I believe GWFs have trouble getting a group? Could you please point out to me where I said that?
As for HRs, for the first time, one of your many assumptions is finally correct. I do feel that HRs seem to have trouble getting groups, because CWs always seem to be preferred, and then GWFs. The only reason HRs are then taken is because they are more useful than the remaining (non-DC) choices of a GF or TR. Not exactly a ringing endorsement, though...
Unless your experience is completely different to mine I see posts all the time in /Channels, /Guilds and /LFG asking for CW and GWF, but very, very rarely for HR.
and they all got nerfed one by one
suddenstorm, icy terrain, conduit of ice seem to be the last spells without target caps
2*GWF(Aoe)+2*CW(singu)+DC(damage buffs)= highest dmg classes(combo) in dungeons
That won't work quite the way you're thinking,
because the GWF would or should outdamage the GF. They could or should just combine the classes in one singular path with the ability to do both. Because they become redundant.
Well what you're missing, is that the reason you see the CW/GWF parties combined rather than just all CW parties is that the GWF/CW teams are much more efficient than a CW only party.
The reason for this is that the one thing that makes a CWs life easier is for them to be able to focus all their AoE is a single point of grouped mobs. The GWFs run in and grab the mobs and some major AoE damage, this brings all the mobs to a central spot while doing serious damage. Then the CWs open up like cannons... and togather those parties anhilate things. When you end up with a 2 CW, 2GWF, 1DC party, the DC buffs shoot the damage of the party through the roof.
The CW only party tends to be a little overly squishy. So... they can wipe in a heartbeat if they're not on their toes 100%, yes you do have to be very good to pull these off. Its the same when you have a CW/HR party which I've also been in. But admittedly when you have all CW/HRs, things go down very quickly.
The CW/GWF team togather operates much more efficiently.
I honestly am not sure what to do with a GF to make this work. Because the GWF already provides it, AND had higher damage output. Even if you buffed the GF damage, it would be hard to justify buffing it higher than GWF since GF has the armor and health.
Again I'm not seeing a workable solution here for GF that's going to make anything any better for them. Even if you buffed them.
Well I tend to work with HRs,
The real problem with HRs isn't their damage. That's just fine. The real problem I run into with Rangers is them doing the ONE thing that is the worst thing you can when you are going for party efficiency like I talked about above... Remember its all about keeping the mobs in one spot.
They do something that splits the mobs so they cannot be targeted in a single location, is a serious problem that Rangers tend to make in multiple parties which really hoses that up. I do not know why they do this... but they do. I do not understand how they can grab that kind of Agro. But it completely hoses up the one thing that is absolutely necessary for the party to work efficiently, and why people get so annoyed with Rangers in party.
5cw parties don't wipe that often. Being in a group like that makes me want to kill myself but even if the mobs down me someone else will just fire off their oppressive force and pick me up but its unlikely to happen because they would have to be able to attack me through oppressive force, shards, steal time etc to do any damage. Really the only way you get downed in a 5 cw party is if you run and drag mobs to make a mob ball and you are the last guy in the line. Then the ranged mobs might take you down. Unless you decide to stop and kill them. No one likes missing the start of a boss fight though.
Interesting, although that is about overall party and not class damage.
I personally prefer the 3 CW GWF DC combo, but you could be right.