Even following Trace's excellent suggestions for AD generation, not many of those apply to the new Level 10 player, and even those that do (e.g. Rhix dailies) generate enough XP so that this player is quickly leveled out of the Lvl 10-19 PVP bracket.
So why even bother?
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
Meeting all kinds of twinks with my 30 HR in PvP They're pretty annoying. I've resisted the temptation to buy anything at all for the HR so I only have greens and blues and level 1-2 enchants :P Many times can barely damage these guys, while I take huge damage, I think what keeps me alive (for a short while) if my high Con and PvP build. Green artifact also doesn't cut it lol. Last match I was in a game with basically all twinks. Some with perfect vorpals, some with terror, some with plaguefire, was uber annoying. All my nice combos did pretty much nothing on people with R8+ Radiants haha, me with green bow and stuff So I end up running all these matches just to stay alive and kite-kite-kite.
So by now I'm pretty tempted to buy mulhorand gear and send some enchants to the HR. But I hope I will resist this, cause it seems to me uber ****ty taking on players in greens with me having epics and perfects, especially as now I know how it feels on the receiving end.
The problem, OP, is partly one of your perception. When someone is levelling their Nth character, they're bored of levelling, and keen to get to cap, and have a pile of resources. Thus they buy Mulhorand items, and fill them with decent gems- to steamroller through the tedious business of levelling* all the quicker.
If they're anything like me, they will do the odd PvP match to break up the monotony. At that point, they will be more powerful on paper than some of the other players. However, they're not "twinking" on purpose. You can't really twink in this game properly, anyway, as there is no way to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> progress properly to stay at the top of a bracket.
I think maybe you're just sore because you got taken apart by some experienced players who are using good gear. If they were clueless credit card warriors, they could still be killed. If they were wearing what dropped, they'd still be a danger in PvP. However, the combination is pretty hairy
The problem, OP, is partly one of your perception. When someone is levelling their Nth character, they're bored of levelling, and keen to get to cap, and have a pile of resources. Thus they buy Mulhorand items, and fill them with decent gems- to steamroller through the tedious business of levelling* all the quicker.
If they're anything like me, they will do the odd PvP match to break up the monotony. At that point, they will be more powerful on paper than some of the other players. However, they're not "twinking" on purpose. You can't really twink in this game properly, anyway, as there is no way to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> progress properly to stay at the top of a bracket.
I think maybe you're just sore because you got taken apart by some experienced players who are using good gear. If they were clueless credit card warriors, they could still be killed. If they were wearing what dropped, they'd still be a danger in PvP. However, the combination is pretty hairy
Really the top top tier of pvp players are crazy good at pvp AND put a ton of money into it.
Really the top top tier of pvp players are crazy good at pvp AND put a ton of money into it.
I've seen many of the top tier pvpers play, (of which I am not one of them) and honestly I think you could put them into leveling pvp matches naked with only a blue weapon, and they would still destroy pugs.
I've seen many of the top tier pvpers play, (of which I am not one of them) and honestly I think you could put them into leveling pvp matches naked with only a blue weapon, and they would still destroy pugs.
I am far from top tier myself and my views are purely my observations from seeing them play/playing against them. If we had a pvp system where we could actually choose what teams we fight (aka pre-arranged matches) I would be begging to naked/blue fight the best. Who wouldn't! lol. But ya, I agree top tier pvp players naked in blue will wipe out geared out pugs. But combine that skill with top level gear and you literally have what is optimum.
In any case, however much people idolise or loathe competent PvPers, or how they feel about people with decent equipment, it's foolishly unrealistic to expect people levelling their Nth character not to pop into PvP for a chance from the tedium of levelling, or keep a set of crappy gear in their (finite) bags for when they do.
It all just smacks of "mer mer mer, no fair" to expect otherwise.
Obviously, those who then go on to mock those they have just beaten are as worthy of contempt as those screaming at them for winning. However, as we know, PvP brings out the worst in some fairly borderline people
The Ancient Mulhorand gear was a giant mistake from the beginning. It turns lowbie PVP into a twinkfest where new F2P players are *unable* to compete on the same level as the twinked out lowbies. It's pretty sad really.
when i was lvling my cleric from 1-60 often with pvp as a quick experience boost, it is extremely horrible to be a cleric in pvp at those lvls. gwf's chasing u throughout the entire map for free kills just because u entered their line-of-sight. healing spells only giving 1/8 of someone's hp at best and dps skills was also laughable (gl with healing depression at those lvls).
then i just bought the purple weapons and decimated most teams i ever fought against. i don't even regret it considering how often clerics got carried.
when i was lvling my cleric from 1-60 often with pvp as a quick experience boost, it is extremely horrible to be a cleric in pvp at those lvls. gwf's chasing u throughout the entire map for free kills just because u entered their line-of-sight. healing spells only giving 1/8 of someone's hp at best and dps skills was also laughable (gl with healing depression at those lvls).
then i just bought the purple weapons and decimated most teams i ever fought against. i don't even regret it considering how often clerics got carried.
Eh, every time you take the easy road and do that, you're ruining the game for at least 5 people and up to 9.
But hey, if you get your exp faster, that makes it "Ok". I mean from lvl 11 - 60 that's only what...atleast 200 matches if you win them all and do only PvP?
You lost a match in which he had the same gear, or just above as you, so what? You already know the game mode and maps better than them, have a decent idea on what each class can do, and now you need to then have a huge gear gap JUST to beat them?
If you want to farm PvP from lvl 11 - 60, go for it, but do it on a bloody even footing. You don't "deserve" anything just because you got to lvl 60. It doesn't matter if it is your first or tenth character, stop using excuses to ruin the game for other people.
Eh, every time you take the easy road and do that, you're ruining the game for at least 5 people and up to 9.
But hey, if you get your exp faster, that makes it "Ok". I mean from lvl 11 - 60 that's only what...atleast 200 matches if you win them all and do only PvP?
You lost a match in which he had the same gear, or just above as you, so what? You already know the game mode and maps better than them, have a decent idea on what each class can do, and now you need to then have a huge gear gap JUST to beat them?
If you want to farm PvP from lvl 11 - 60, go for it, but do it on a bloody even footing. You don't "deserve" anything just because you got to lvl 60. It doesn't matter if it is your first or tenth character, stop using excuses to ruin the game for other people.
If it wasn't mulhorand gear it would be something else, up to and including "those with 60's shouldn't be able to low level pvp because they have too much experience and knowledge."
Eh, every time you take the easy road and do that, you're ruining the game for at least 5 people and up to 9.
But hey, if you get your exp faster, that makes it "Ok". I mean from lvl 11 - 60 that's only what...atleast 200 matches if you win them all and do only PvP?
You lost a match in which he had the same gear, or just above as you, so what? You already know the game mode and maps better than them, have a decent idea on what each class can do, and now you need to then have a huge gear gap JUST to beat them?
If you want to farm PvP from lvl 11 - 60, go for it, but do it on a bloody even footing. You don't "deserve" anything just because you got to lvl 60. It doesn't matter if it is your first or tenth character, stop using excuses to ruin the game for other people.
Whoa sir! Whoa!
You seem to be forgetting three things:
1: we want to get to 60 ASAP.
2: nobody gives a **** if it makes you upset.
3: it will never stop unless those items are removed from the game.
I twinked while lvling my alts. Why? Because I like PVP and playing in gear 5 lvls below you is for schmucks in PVP. Also when HR came out the mul gear was too interesting to pass up.
I realized that twinking is as simple as always wanting your character to be as powerful as it possibly can be. Regardless of level. It has nothing to do with other players. I also want my toons to look as good as they can at all times (to my own tastes). Does that mean I should hold off the event transmute items, dye packs, so on and on, until level 60 so my lowby toons look as bad as the new players toons?
I realized that twinking is as simple as always wanting your character to be as powerful as it possibly can be.
Right...but this thread is specifically about twinking in lower levels against first time players.
Anyway, despite it being a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> move, I don't blame people who do it. I do it myself. I enjoy unfair competition to my advantage.
You cannot put the weight of the responsibility to the players, it has to be upon cryptic to either decide this is as intended or not.
(By the way, the fact that this is allowed by cryptic doesn't mean it is working as intended. We all know cryptic is a little behind to fixing problems in the game)
Does that mean I should hold off the event transmute items, dye packs, so on and on, until level 60 so my lowby toons look as bad as the new players toons?
PS, don't use straw man arguments. Nobody here ever argued about transmute items. They were talking about perfect vorpals and rank 10s. Drawing up a straw man only discredits your argument and questions your capacity to think logically.
(By the way, the fact that this is allowed by cryptic doesn't mean it is working as intended. We all know cryptic is a little behind to fixing problems in the game)
The release a no ml weapon with a weapon enchantment slot. People put a weapon enchantment in it. How would there be any reasonable doubt that it's wai?
The release a no ml weapon with a weapon enchantment slot. People put a weapon enchantment in it. How would there be any reasonable doubt that it's wai?
Cryptic I believe made it to speed up your progression in levelling you toons in PVE.
They obviously know it gives you an advantage in pvp too, but I think having a level 22 character with full epics, rank 10s and perfect vorpal is a bit too overpowered in 20-29 PVP. Yes this happens. I've played against those folks, had my guildmates do it and I've been one of those folks
This I can agree with even though I have used higher ranked enchants myself in lower pvp brackets and it does take the fun out most of the times. I say there should be level restrictions on all types of enchants and then maybe, just maybe pvp can improve to a point in the lower brackets at least. It's bad enough the way class skills and builds are as it is, why make things even worse by making them stronger than they should be for their level just to keep having players afk in their spawn sites or quit(which hasn't changed much because 30 mins is not long enough and should be for the whole account).
0
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited March 2014
Okay let's not cast fireballs on the forums guys.
Respect. It does a long way to getting yourself heard by each other and the developers.
If it wasn't mulhorand gear it would be something else, up to and including "those with 60's shouldn't be able to low level pvp because they have too much experience and knowledge."
Quite. In any case, below 60 PvP is a severely simplified and abridged version of the end experience, lacking key skills and dynamics. It's just a fun little aperitif, nothing to get bent out of shape over. It also awards XP in a game where it's possible to go from 1-60 in a weekend without trying all that hard- so low level PvP is designed to have the life of a mayfly.
Getting any undergarments in a bunch about it really is just going out of your way to find something to be pointlessly cross about. It is not really a big deal.
For *you* it does not matter because you are merely leveling alts.
For the new player, especially the new casual player, the leveling experience in its entirety makes a bit of difference whether to continue with the game or not.
If you make this experience unfair, unfun and humiliating, don't be surprised when they don't stick around.
Just like there are suggestions for having a separate "pug queue" from a "premade queue" at level 60 PVP, perhaps there should be a "newbie queue" and an "alt queue" for lowbie PVP.
Right...but this thread is specifically about twinking in lower levels against first time players.
Anyway, despite it being a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> move, I don't blame people who do it. I do it myself. I enjoy unfair competition to my advantage.
You cannot put the weight of the responsibility to the players, it has to be upon cryptic to either decide this is as intended or not.
(By the way, the fact that this is allowed by cryptic doesn't mean it is working as intended. We all know cryptic is a little behind to fixing problems in the game)
My point is that the intent is not "against" anyone. I am doing it for me. I don't know who is a first time player, I don't care. You can't stop twinking. Cryptic theoretically could create brackets based on GS (for all levels) and then apply the elo to those brackets but you can really only screw with that stuff so much before q times become infinite. The CORE problem here is lack of PROGRESSION beyond level 60. Give us levels 61-80 and there you have 19 levels, each of which require a crazy amount of xp and then finally, FINALLY getting to level 80 so you can START the legendary long lasting journey of getting top-tier lvl 80 gear. That gives us something to do that feels like we are progressing after hitting 16k or so on our lvl 60's. In other words, it would reduce twinking because twinking comes from players with level 60 toons who still want to feel they are progressing in the game.
Think of everything that helps in pvp that can be twinked/bought. With no other gear than an epic mount as soon as you can use a mount, and there is a massive advantage in pvp. There is just too much.
PS, don't use straw man arguments. Nobody here ever argued about transmute items. They were talking about perfect vorpals and rank 10s. Drawing up a straw man only discredits your argument and questions your capacity to think logically.
It seems like the anti-twinking thing comes from "its not fair for more experienced players to have more than new players". If that is the case, then the dye and so on is not a straw man argument. If the issue is not "its not fair", than what is the issue?
For *you* it does not matter because you are merely leveling alts.
For the new player, especially the new casual player, the leveling experience in its entirety makes a bit of difference whether to continue with the game or not.
If you make this experience unfair, unfun and humiliating, don't be surprised when they don't stick around.
Just like there are suggestions for having a separate "pug queue" from a "premade queue" at level 60 PVP, perhaps there should be a "newbie queue" and an "alt queue" for lowbie PVP.
I think this is a good idea, but like other good ideas, the main problem is player population. There are just not enough people in q to begin with so the q's take forever when you plug too much criteria into the matchmaking process.
I brought my very first toon up through pvp and pve. I won some and lost some in pvp and understood quite well that I was new and that once I had played the game awhile I would be able to keep up with those who have more and better gear and experience. You can't ever be brand new at something and expect the playing field to be even. I blame the new players. Most of them don't care enough to learn the game. There is a dearth of information about NWO pvp, that is worth at least as much as any gear wha so ever, ESPECIALLY at low levels. It is free and no one needs a level 60 to look at the forum or youtube or one of the many dozens of internet guides on the subject.
why does any of this matter? if you removed twinking then the same players will come back with blue/green gear and stomp the noobs just as hard. you don't understand that? the skill advantage is so big
Comments
You can buy everything at AH via ZAX.
So why even bother?
So by now I'm pretty tempted to buy mulhorand gear and send some enchants to the HR. But I hope I will resist this, cause it seems to me uber ****ty taking on players in greens with me having epics and perfects, especially as now I know how it feels on the receiving end.
If they're anything like me, they will do the odd PvP match to break up the monotony. At that point, they will be more powerful on paper than some of the other players. However, they're not "twinking" on purpose. You can't really twink in this game properly, anyway, as there is no way to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> progress properly to stay at the top of a bracket.
I think maybe you're just sore because you got taken apart by some experienced players who are using good gear. If they were clueless credit card warriors, they could still be killed. If they were wearing what dropped, they'd still be a danger in PvP. However, the combination is pretty hairy
Only from your own perspective. Seriously, if no one pays for anything why would they continue to even have this game?
Jugger Conq GF
....
Really the top top tier of pvp players are crazy good at pvp AND put a ton of money into it.
Jugger Conq GF
....
I've seen many of the top tier pvpers play, (of which I am not one of them) and honestly I think you could put them into leveling pvp matches naked with only a blue weapon, and they would still destroy pugs.
I am far from top tier myself and my views are purely my observations from seeing them play/playing against them. If we had a pvp system where we could actually choose what teams we fight (aka pre-arranged matches) I would be begging to naked/blue fight the best. Who wouldn't! lol. But ya, I agree top tier pvp players naked in blue will wipe out geared out pugs. But combine that skill with top level gear and you literally have what is optimum.
Jugger Conq GF
....
It all just smacks of "mer mer mer, no fair" to expect otherwise.
Obviously, those who then go on to mock those they have just beaten are as worthy of contempt as those screaming at them for winning. However, as we know, PvP brings out the worst in some fairly borderline people
then i just bought the purple weapons and decimated most teams i ever fought against. i don't even regret it considering how often clerics got carried.
Eh, every time you take the easy road and do that, you're ruining the game for at least 5 people and up to 9.
But hey, if you get your exp faster, that makes it "Ok". I mean from lvl 11 - 60 that's only what...atleast 200 matches if you win them all and do only PvP?
You lost a match in which he had the same gear, or just above as you, so what? You already know the game mode and maps better than them, have a decent idea on what each class can do, and now you need to then have a huge gear gap JUST to beat them?
If you want to farm PvP from lvl 11 - 60, go for it, but do it on a bloody even footing. You don't "deserve" anything just because you got to lvl 60. It doesn't matter if it is your first or tenth character, stop using excuses to ruin the game for other people.
Whoa sir! Whoa!
You seem to be forgetting three things:
1: we want to get to 60 ASAP.
2: nobody gives a **** if it makes you upset.
3: it will never stop unless those items are removed from the game.
Glad I could clear this up for you buddy
Cheers!
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Jugger Conq GF
....
Right...but this thread is specifically about twinking in lower levels against first time players.
Anyway, despite it being a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> move, I don't blame people who do it. I do it myself. I enjoy unfair competition to my advantage.
You cannot put the weight of the responsibility to the players, it has to be upon cryptic to either decide this is as intended or not.
(By the way, the fact that this is allowed by cryptic doesn't mean it is working as intended. We all know cryptic is a little behind to fixing problems in the game)
PS, don't use straw man arguments. Nobody here ever argued about transmute items. They were talking about perfect vorpals and rank 10s. Drawing up a straw man only discredits your argument and questions your capacity to think logically.
The release a no ml weapon with a weapon enchantment slot. People put a weapon enchantment in it. How would there be any reasonable doubt that it's wai?
Cryptic I believe made it to speed up your progression in levelling you toons in PVE.
They obviously know it gives you an advantage in pvp too, but I think having a level 22 character with full epics, rank 10s and perfect vorpal is a bit too overpowered in 20-29 PVP. Yes this happens. I've played against those folks, had my guildmates do it and I've been one of those folks
Respect. It does a long way to getting yourself heard by each other and the developers.
Quite. In any case, below 60 PvP is a severely simplified and abridged version of the end experience, lacking key skills and dynamics. It's just a fun little aperitif, nothing to get bent out of shape over. It also awards XP in a game where it's possible to go from 1-60 in a weekend without trying all that hard- so low level PvP is designed to have the life of a mayfly.
Getting any undergarments in a bunch about it really is just going out of your way to find something to be pointlessly cross about. It is not really a big deal.
For the new player, especially the new casual player, the leveling experience in its entirety makes a bit of difference whether to continue with the game or not.
If you make this experience unfair, unfun and humiliating, don't be surprised when they don't stick around.
Just like there are suggestions for having a separate "pug queue" from a "premade queue" at level 60 PVP, perhaps there should be a "newbie queue" and an "alt queue" for lowbie PVP.
My point is that the intent is not "against" anyone. I am doing it for me. I don't know who is a first time player, I don't care. You can't stop twinking. Cryptic theoretically could create brackets based on GS (for all levels) and then apply the elo to those brackets but you can really only screw with that stuff so much before q times become infinite. The CORE problem here is lack of PROGRESSION beyond level 60. Give us levels 61-80 and there you have 19 levels, each of which require a crazy amount of xp and then finally, FINALLY getting to level 80 so you can START the legendary long lasting journey of getting top-tier lvl 80 gear. That gives us something to do that feels like we are progressing after hitting 16k or so on our lvl 60's. In other words, it would reduce twinking because twinking comes from players with level 60 toons who still want to feel they are progressing in the game.
Think of everything that helps in pvp that can be twinked/bought. With no other gear than an epic mount as soon as you can use a mount, and there is a massive advantage in pvp. There is just too much.
It seems like the anti-twinking thing comes from "its not fair for more experienced players to have more than new players". If that is the case, then the dye and so on is not a straw man argument. If the issue is not "its not fair", than what is the issue?
Jugger Conq GF
....
I think this is a good idea, but like other good ideas, the main problem is player population. There are just not enough people in q to begin with so the q's take forever when you plug too much criteria into the matchmaking process.
I brought my very first toon up through pvp and pve. I won some and lost some in pvp and understood quite well that I was new and that once I had played the game awhile I would be able to keep up with those who have more and better gear and experience. You can't ever be brand new at something and expect the playing field to be even. I blame the new players. Most of them don't care enough to learn the game. There is a dearth of information about NWO pvp, that is worth at least as much as any gear wha so ever, ESPECIALLY at low levels. It is free and no one needs a level 60 to look at the forum or youtube or one of the many dozens of internet guides on the subject.
Jugger Conq GF
....