Take that away from people who actually are PAYING customers who foot the bill for every other players that pays nothing, and/or from those who have put that much time, energy, ad thought into te game...not good gaming sense, not good business sense.
I have nothing to add.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This.
Some of the best PvP games I ever had in NW were GvG "naked" (no gear or enchants, just a green weapon).. ahh..those were the days
I'm really not a fan of this model for this reason: It gives me nothing to strive for. I'm been playing PVP since Beta, and one of the things that draws me back consistently is that I'm not yet there. I want my Enchantments at Rank 10 (currently 8 and 9), and I want my Artifacts maxed (currently ranked 80-100).
Naked PVP would make the already mundane PVP in this game all the more boring.
...
I'm really not a fan of this model for this reason: It gives me nothing to strive for. I'm been playing PVP since Beta, and one of the things that draws me back consistently is that I'm not yet there. I want my Enchantments at Rank 10 (currently 8 and 9), and I want my Artifacts maxed (currently ranked 80-100).
Naked PVP would make the already mundane PVP in this game all the more boring.
Fair point, and I actually agree. But my point is, all the QQ about PvP (im)balance could be solved relatively easily by disregarding gear.
It'll never happen, of course, so we have to work with an increasingly complex, and expensive (in-game currency wise), model where few will ever be happy and many will complain with these type of threads.
Take that away from people who actually are PAYING customers who foot the bill for every other players that pays nothing, and/or from those who have put that much time, energy, ad thought into te game...not good gaming sense, not good business sense.
What a ridiculous idiotic statement.
You actually believe that just because a player has rank 10s that means he is a paying customer? By the way, these folks don't pay for anything, they earn their diamonds through shortcutting dungeons.
And no, this ridiculous imbalance will turn off new players who may become PAYING CUSTOMERS.
The only reasonable thing you said on your post is that without these new players, an MMO cannot survive
One - Half of you expect NEW PLAYERS to somehow know how to play a PvP mode that they have never/hardly played in before.
Two - They're a lot of people that think it's "no big deal" that you are able to 5v1 people in PvP due to your "twinking"
Do i really need to explain to you all WHY people lose interest and leave this game? You're doing the exact same thing as in hearthstone (Rank tanking), and they have a thread every HOUR complaining about it and people leaving by the hundreds. This is no different.
If you want to ROLFstomp new players, make them feel mierable, and make them quit, then you have ZERO right to complain when you have no new blood in the game, and the game dies. You are ruining it by your own elitist attitude, and you know what, you deserve it.
If they are going to quit over that than maybe they wouldn't have stayed at all? We were all new players at some point and we all had to deal with getting roflstomped
the thing is, you need to learn why you are getting roflstomped then you can win/get better...
If they quit because they feel so bad, then they shouldn't play to begin with b/c imo lvl 60 pvp is much worse and ppl in this game are fairly critical of skill, not only in pvp but pve too
tl;dr losing is a learning experience in which they could learn some pvp strats to win
Gear is nothing. I have beat a 5 man guild premade with 3 other pugs (1 quit) because they had open minds and listened to the strategy I gave them. All of these pugs had <9k GS while the enemy team were rocking perfects and whatever. I think gear is just an excuse for losing. Sure, it is a factor but if these twinks all chase you for kills and never cap nodes, please explain how they would win...
If they are going to quit over that than maybe they wouldn't have stayed at all? We were all new players at some point and we all had to deal with getting roflstomped
the thing is, you need to learn why you are getting roflstomped then you can win/get better...
Would not say that is true.
You were getting roflstomped with people who have more skill than you and have 1k higher GS.
You joined on May 2013. When you were a newbie at the game, almost everyone is a newbie. Nobody was twinking at lower levels with rank 10 enchants. In fact, nobody had a full set of rank 10 enchants during that period. Now we have ancient mulhorand weapons to boot too.
The best stuff back then was Gloom crates.
The new players today are getting roflstomped in a 5v1 match against an experienced player who has quadruple the gearscore.
At some point, you have to at least avoid a complete ridiculous facerolling.
And I also disagree about your "gear is nothing" statement. While I agree that skill is more important, you cannot discount gear especially at lower levels. If someone has double or quadruple your gearscore, you cannot argue that it doesn't give them a big big advantage at lower pvp levels.
like i said before, test how much a difference gear makes yourself
i used to pvp competitively in r5s and did fine vs ppl with r10s.
not going to lie, most ppl in low lvl pvp suck.
they do not cap points, target correctly, or even remotely listen. They are just trying to get the highest score.
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You were getting roflstomped with people who have more skill than you and have 1k higher GS.
You joined on May 2013. When you were a newbie at the game, almost everyone is a newbie. Nobody was twinking at lower levels with rank 10 enchants. In fact, nobody had a full set of rank 10 enchants during that period. Now we have ancient mulhorand weapons to boot too.
The best stuff back then was Gloom crates.
The new players today are getting roflstomped in a 5v1 match against an experienced player who has quadruple the gearscore.
At some point, you have to at least avoid a complete ridiculous facerolling.
And I also disagree about your "gear is nothing" statement. While I agree that skill is more important, you cannot discount gear especially at lower levels. If someone has double or quadruple your gearscore, you cannot argue that it doesn't give them a big big advantage at lower pvp levels.
No, one one had access to AM Weapons and Rank 10's. They had Greater Tenebrous Enchantments that proc'ed every 5 seconds (later nerfed to 20) that burned through players like a hot knife through butter. The players who've been here since Beta have recognized, adapted and overcome so many tweeks, fixes, bugs, nerfs and exploits that you weren't around for. So...
You have access to that same gear and those same enchants without spending any real-life money. Read my guide. I-don't-have-any-AD-to-buy-the-same-gear is a poverty mindset and frankly quite annoying.
Think different, make better choices, and stop whining. It takes less than a week to get to level 60 with consistent playing. Wait until you get destroyed in level 60 PVP. Then you'll have a real reason to pull out a box of tissues and cry yourself to sleep.
Again, lvl is not an improtant value in this game, only GS. If the system was able to manage GS as an indication of the character s power then you can balance everything. But as long as you have a guy with 1k GS against another with 3.4k GS (without considering things that don t change gs, like weap and armor enchants) pvp won t be playabe.
like i said before, test how much a difference gear makes yourself
i used to pvp competitively in r5s and did fine vs ppl with r10s.
not going to lie, most ppl in low lvl pvp suck.
they do not cap points, target correctly, or even remotely listen. They are just trying to get the highest score.
You are an experienced player who played against other experienced players with better gear.
I am talking about new players coming into the game for their first time having to go against experienced players with double, triple or quadruple their gearscore.
I have started "twinking" to see for myself and it is one-sided once you get slots for your gear to put rank 10s in.
Think different, make better choices, and stop whining. It takes less than a week to get to level 60 with consistent playing. Wait until you get destroyed in level 60 PVP. Then you'll have a real reason to pull out a box of tissues and cry yourself to sleep.
I guess reading isn't your strong suit huh?
I have already said that I am actually on the other side of this. I have my rank 10s. I am the potential "twinker" (I have actually started doing this to see how much imbalance there actually is, which is a lot)
I am arguing for the new players who play low level PVP FOR THEIR FIRST TIME and are subjected to 2 obstacles. The first one being they are facing elite experienced players. There is no harm in that, they got outplayed and will surely learn the ropes.
What I am not completely in agreement about is having a full set of rank 10s at level 10-19 or 20-29 etc. This is not teaching the newer players on how to learn the ropes. You are facerolling their entire team with characters double or triple their GS.
Also, these people will generally go PVPing with their other rich friends because the point of this whole thing is to gain entertainment by completely obliterating new players. I must say, there is some truth to that as I have enjoyed it quite a bit. It doesn't mean however that it is fair just because I enjoy it if I'm ruining the game for tons of new players.
As for tenebrous, I see you may not know about the history of this game but not to worry, I am willing to explain. Back then, did you know that you needed to spend more than a hundred thousand diamonds to unslot a single enchantment? I know it is surprising but yes that is true. Also, most of the elite folks in guilds were running rank 5 enchants, with the richest people running rank 7.
Now remember, this was a time when a stack of 99 rank 5s did not cost lost than 100k. Yes I know you won't believe it, but that is the economy in the past. So you see, twinking was not popular back then and was very very costly. People were more concerned with running dungeons and sticking with premade PVP.
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I have already said that I am actually on the other side of this. I have my rank 10s. I am the potential "twinker" (I have actually started doing this to see how much imbalance there actually is, which is a lot)
I am arguing for the new players who play low level PVP FOR THEIR FIRST TIME and are subjected to 2 obstacles. The first one being they are facing elite experienced players. There is no harm in that, they got outplayed and will surely learn the ropes.
What I am not completely in agreement about is having a full set of rank 10s at level 10-19 or 20-29 etc. This is not teaching the newer players on how to learn the ropes. You are facerolling their entire team with characters double or triple their GS.
Also, these people will generally go PVPing with their other rich friends because the point of this whole thing is to gain entertainment by completely obliterating new players. I must say, there is some truth to that as I have enjoyed it quite a bit. It doesn't mean however that it is fair just because I enjoy it if I'm ruining the game for tons of new players.
As for tenebrous, I see you may not know about the history of this game but not to worry, I am willing to explain. Back then, did you know that you needed to spend more than a hundred thousand diamonds to unslot a single enchantment? I know it is surprising but yes that is true. Also, most of the elite folks in guilds were running rank 5 enchants, with the richest people running rank 7.
Now remember, this was a time when a stack of 99 rank 5s did not cost lost than 100k. Yes I know you won't believe it, but that is the economy in the past. So you see, twinking was not popular back then and was very very costly. People were more concerned with running dungeons and sticking with premade PVP.
I know you may not believe it, but people on Mindflayer were running BiS Gear with Rank 8/9/10s a couple of weeks after Beta. I see you may not know much about the history of this game, but not to worry, I am willing to explain. Back then, did you know there was a little thing called an exploit? Specifically for Castle Never (not to mention the other DDs). I know it's crazy to believe, but people ran this exploit a lot, selling their loot on the AH for millions of AD! Crazy, right? After that, they used their AD to purchase the best enchants, or to buy keys to unlock chests to get Tenebrous enchantments.
I do recognize that enchants were much more expensive to unlock before it was switched to gold. Do you know why nobody really cares now? Because it takes less than a week to get to level 60, and lower level PVP goes by in a flash. As for new players, they can sink or swim. "The burnt hand teaches better." -Gandalf.
If they are going to quit over that than maybe they wouldn't have stayed at all? We were all new players at some point and we all had to deal with getting roflstomped
the thing is, you need to learn why you are getting roflstomped then you can win/get better...
If they quit because they feel so bad, then they shouldn't play to begin with b/c imo lvl 60 pvp is much worse and ppl in this game are fairly critical of skill, not only in pvp but pve too
tl;dr losing is a learning experience in which they could learn some pvp strats to win
Gear is nothing. I have beat a 5 man guild premade with 3 other pugs (1 quit) because they had open minds and listened to the strategy I gave them. All of these pugs had <9k GS while the enemy team were rocking perfects and whatever. I think gear is just an excuse for losing. Sure, it is a factor but if these twinks all chase you for kills and never cap nodes, please explain how they would win...
There's a MAJOR difference between losing a fair fight and learning, and just been completely stomped. Seriously, what do you expect to learn from a game where someone can use gear 10k+ ranks higher than you?
And please, stop this lame and downright pathetic "gear is nothing" argument. You have just GOT to be kidding me. If it was nothing, why would people farm gear, or try to get perfects and rank 10 and armour sets? Apparently it means nothing so why bother?
Not only that, you keep asuming that every "twinker" is a blithering moron. You mean to tell me that every last twink is some "****" that
A - Doesn't know how to play the PvP mode
B - Never caps
C - Is going to be worse than someone that barely played the game more than a few days?
Not to mention your example is downright outrageous and has zero credibility to it at all. You're trying to tell me that you out-capped and outfought 5 guys, all with perfect gear, with a bunch of 9ks and you were down a man? Right, cause that'll ever happen again. Not only that, i doubt they're that many "idiot" players that are 18k+, they got that gear for a reason.
Not to mention, if you have PvP experience, why do you also need better gear to "compete" with all the low level new players?
The answer? You don't.
There is no reason for you to need perfects and 10 stones when fighting somebody who has played the game 2 days. You're just farming new players, making the game downright miserable for them, and to you that's fine?
This kind of toxic behaviour is downright disgusting. You should be helping new players learn how to play a game that YOU like, not thrashing them and making them never want to come back. If you want to kill your own game, go for it.
OK OK, I have been playing for 2 weeks, not too often everyday, just a casual player:
I am a hardcore pvper, and without trying to float my own boat, I am very good at pvp games because of my pvp experiences in action based skilled games...
I downloaded this game about 5 months ago, uninstalled after getting to level 5, reinstalled 2 weeks ago, because I found out I can level in pvp: As soon as I hit 10, i joined my first pvp game, I was obviously that "newbie" who was lost, but it took me around 4 minutes to grasp how this domination works, where i have to go blah blah, of course there was moments where i was 2 hit killed but it didn't put me off... you die, you learn...?
By my second game i was that guy in normal gear, who came first 90% of my games, most kills, most assists, that guy who basically carried the team of lost pugs - it was when I started joining <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> teams who didn't know how to play for their LIVES, and AFKers and Leavers: That i decided to twink, (YES, before I even hit 18 i decided to twink), not so i can stomp everyone, but so i can literally carry what is most of the time, a hopeless team, I've made 5 characters, twinked them all for this reason.
TL;DR - I twinked before I even had a 60 character due to the fact that pug teams suck.
TL;DR;TL;DR - Pugs made me twink.
This is why I won't PvP. I had enough of that unbalanced twinking thing in WoW to last me a lifetime. I used to do a lot of PvP, and even made myself believe that I was enjoying myself.
I tried PvP here in Neverwinter once, and quickly realized that it was just like WoW in regards to the twinking issue. So I’ll pass. The rest of the game is great, and fun, but I'll leave PvP to others. I don't need the drama, the tears, or the frustration.
This has been my attitude about it for the most part as well. However, I found that both the companion and the artifact should be worth tolerating some pvp for a few weeks. Also, the quests paying out the AD has been really appreciated. But, after I get the stuff I want, I will most likely just stop showing up for the PVP.
Click banner for the Dragon Dogs Family guild page.
I know you may not believe it, but people on Mindflayer were running BiS Gear with Rank 8/9/10s a couple of weeks after Beta. I see you may not know much about the history of this game, but not to worry, I am willing to explain. Back then, did you know there was a little thing called an exploit? Specifically for Castle Never (not to mention the other DDs). I know it's crazy to believe, but people ran this exploit a lot, selling their loot on the AH for millions of AD! Crazy, right? After that, they used their AD to purchase the best enchants, or to buy keys to unlock chests to get Tenebrous enchantments.
I do recognize that enchants were much more expensive to unlock before it was switched to gold. Do you know why nobody really cares now? Because it takes less than a week to get to level 60, and lower level PVP goes by in a flash. As for new players, they can sink or swim. "The burnt hand teaches better." -Gandalf.
Even more history lessons for the student! Aren't you glad the teacher himself is here to enlighten you? Did you know that because people were constantly running dungeons due to these "shortcuts", they did not like to waste hundreds of thousands of diamonds just switching the enchants back and forth their characters?
Yeah it is kind of weird. I realize that. You'd think people would want to keep spending 600,000 back and forth to keep switching their rank 10s in between characters. Sadly, that was not the case.
As for tenebrous, I have another history lesson for the unenlightened Mr Trace. Did you know that back when it was OP, few people horded it? This increased the price and the lessened availability for that enchantment to be used by everyone who got to 60 and wanting to make an alt.
You are welcome my good sir and if you have any more questions about Neverwinter, its economy, gameplay etc. Just hit me up with a private message. I'll be happy to help and that just goes to anyone in Neverwinter reading this and needing any sort of assistance
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
Great, now that we both know we're NW historical geniuses, back on topic:
1) You tried twinking.
2) You think it's OP.
3) You like fairness, such as guild wars PVP where everyone has the same gear.
4) And you think something should be done.
My counter-points.
1) I've done both.
2) Agreed that it's OP. Just like Sentinal GWFs, or Perfect Vorpals, or Emblems, or people who stack CON and Radiants in Defense, or people who max out Artifacts, or people who PVP who run 5-man Premades, or Perma-Stealth TRs, or uber-tanky DCs, or AOE CWs who PVE.
3) Go play Guild Wars.
4) Nothing needs to be done because A) Getting to 60 is so amazing fast it doesn't matter and Anyone has access to that gear without paying any real money out of pocket. I'm living proof of that.
Improve the way GS is calculated (adding things like lvl, hp, enchants and mount) and use it to balance pvp matches. The higher the media of GS scores you ll get higher rewards in glory points. Instead of just using lvl, wich doesn t mean mcuh.
Some of the historic references aren't exactly accurate, I would hold on to the "NW historical genius".
Again, please do not put words in my mouth.
I don't think some of the alternate situations you listed is fair either. If cryptic intended SOME of those unfair situations so be it.
I'm just here to voice my opinion regarding the matter.
If you think levelling up to 60 is "fast" enough that it shouldn't matter. Then there is a fundamental disagreement that would take too much back and forth for it to be worth it since cryptic is likely going to ignore it.
Play nice or be a fool, a lead in like this tends to immediately disqualify everything else a person says afterwards. It is like a "The following is a poorly thought out, knee jerk reaction" disclaimer.
You actually believe that just because a player has rank 10s that means he is a paying customer? By the way, these folks don't pay for anything, they earn their diamonds through shortcutting dungeons.
And no, this ridiculous imbalance will turn off new players who may become PAYING CUSTOMERS.
The only reasonable thing you said on your post is that without these new players, an MMO cannot survive
So there is no such thing as a paying customer currently, only new players who may become paying customers? What will they spend that money on? One of the three currently available fashion items? Like I said, it is a cycle. I know few pvper's who spam dungeons. Dungeons are run but not constantly farmed. Hardcore pvpe'rs tend to lay pvp, not farm. Not usually anyways.
Take that away from people who actually are PAYING customers who foot the bill for EVERY OTHER players that PAYS NOTHING, and/or from those who have put that much time, energy, ad thought into te game...not good gaming sense, not good business sense.
Great, now that we both know we're NW historical geniuses, back on topic:
1) You tried twinking.
2) You think it's OP.
3) You like fairness, such as guild wars PVP where everyone has the same gear.
4) And you think something should be done.
My counter-points.
1) I've done both.
2) Agreed that it's OP. Just like Sentinal GWFs, or Perfect Vorpals, or Emblems, or people who stack CON and Radiants in Defense, or people who max out Artifacts, or people who PVP who run 5-man Premades, or Perma-Stealth TRs, or uber-tanky DCs, or AOE CWs who PVE.
3) Go play Guild Wars.
4) Nothing needs to be done because A) Getting to 60 is so amazing fast it doesn't matter and Anyone has access to that gear without paying any real money out of pocket. I'm living proof of that.
What did I miss?
This sums it up, if you are unwilling to invest in some low cost Mulh ancient items that carry you right to t2 lvl 60 then you deserve the disadvantageous predicament you have put yourself in.
I get it now. Brand new F2P players deserve to lose because they don't have a Level 60 main character able to twink them out.
That's a pretty whine but yeah, that sums it up. Some people will have better gear then you, it's the way MMO's work. This isn't a FPS or a MOBA. Gear advantages are normal in all pay styles so using the fp2 cry is just a crutch but feel free to use it if it helps your entitlement.
That's a pretty whine but yeah, that sums it up. Some people will have better gear then you, it's the way MMO's work. This isn't a FPS or a MOBA. Gear advantages are normal in all pay styles so using the fp2 cry is just a crutch but feel free to use it if it helps your entitlement.
This isn't really about "having better gear". This is about the twinked player having better gear that the new F2P player is UNABLE to obtain. Even following Trace's excellent suggestions for AD generation, not many of those apply to the new Level 10 player, and even those that do (e.g. Rhix dailies) generate enough XP so that this player is quickly leveled out of the Lvl 10-19 PVP bracket.
But you all know this, and don't care. It's really just about you leveling up new PVP characters as quickly as you can via PVP without having to go through that icky PVE leveling stuff and generating a boatload of glory so that you can quickly get your Level%2
Comments
I have nothing to add.
If only there was a way to earn AD outside of farming and paying for Zen?! If only!
I'm really not a fan of this model for this reason: It gives me nothing to strive for. I'm been playing PVP since Beta, and one of the things that draws me back consistently is that I'm not yet there. I want my Enchantments at Rank 10 (currently 8 and 9), and I want my Artifacts maxed (currently ranked 80-100).
Naked PVP would make the already mundane PVP in this game all the more boring.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Fair point, and I actually agree. But my point is, all the QQ about PvP (im)balance could be solved relatively easily by disregarding gear.
It'll never happen, of course, so we have to work with an increasingly complex, and expensive (in-game currency wise), model where few will ever be happy and many will complain with these type of threads.
What a ridiculous idiotic statement.
You actually believe that just because a player has rank 10s that means he is a paying customer? By the way, these folks don't pay for anything, they earn their diamonds through shortcutting dungeons.
And no, this ridiculous imbalance will turn off new players who may become PAYING CUSTOMERS.
The only reasonable thing you said on your post is that without these new players, an MMO cannot survive
If they are going to quit over that than maybe they wouldn't have stayed at all? We were all new players at some point and we all had to deal with getting roflstomped
the thing is, you need to learn why you are getting roflstomped then you can win/get better...
If they quit because they feel so bad, then they shouldn't play to begin with b/c imo lvl 60 pvp is much worse and ppl in this game are fairly critical of skill, not only in pvp but pve too
tl;dr losing is a learning experience in which they could learn some pvp strats to win
Gear is nothing. I have beat a 5 man guild premade with 3 other pugs (1 quit) because they had open minds and listened to the strategy I gave them. All of these pugs had <9k GS while the enemy team were rocking perfects and whatever. I think gear is just an excuse for losing. Sure, it is a factor but if these twinks all chase you for kills and never cap nodes, please explain how they would win...
Would not say that is true.
You were getting roflstomped with people who have more skill than you and have 1k higher GS.
You joined on May 2013. When you were a newbie at the game, almost everyone is a newbie. Nobody was twinking at lower levels with rank 10 enchants. In fact, nobody had a full set of rank 10 enchants during that period. Now we have ancient mulhorand weapons to boot too.
The best stuff back then was Gloom crates.
The new players today are getting roflstomped in a 5v1 match against an experienced player who has quadruple the gearscore.
At some point, you have to at least avoid a complete ridiculous facerolling.
And I also disagree about your "gear is nothing" statement. While I agree that skill is more important, you cannot discount gear especially at lower levels. If someone has double or quadruple your gearscore, you cannot argue that it doesn't give them a big big advantage at lower pvp levels.
i used to pvp competitively in r5s and did fine vs ppl with r10s.
not going to lie, most ppl in low lvl pvp suck.
they do not cap points, target correctly, or even remotely listen. They are just trying to get the highest score.
No, one one had access to AM Weapons and Rank 10's. They had Greater Tenebrous Enchantments that proc'ed every 5 seconds (later nerfed to 20) that burned through players like a hot knife through butter. The players who've been here since Beta have recognized, adapted and overcome so many tweeks, fixes, bugs, nerfs and exploits that you weren't around for. So...
You have access to that same gear and those same enchants without spending any real-life money. Read my guide. I-don't-have-any-AD-to-buy-the-same-gear is a poverty mindset and frankly quite annoying.
Think different, make better choices, and stop whining. It takes less than a week to get to level 60 with consistent playing. Wait until you get destroyed in level 60 PVP. Then you'll have a real reason to pull out a box of tissues and cry yourself to sleep.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
You are an experienced player who played against other experienced players with better gear.
I am talking about new players coming into the game for their first time having to go against experienced players with double, triple or quadruple their gearscore.
I have started "twinking" to see for myself and it is one-sided once you get slots for your gear to put rank 10s in.
I guess reading isn't your strong suit huh?
I have already said that I am actually on the other side of this. I have my rank 10s. I am the potential "twinker" (I have actually started doing this to see how much imbalance there actually is, which is a lot)
I am arguing for the new players who play low level PVP FOR THEIR FIRST TIME and are subjected to 2 obstacles. The first one being they are facing elite experienced players. There is no harm in that, they got outplayed and will surely learn the ropes.
What I am not completely in agreement about is having a full set of rank 10s at level 10-19 or 20-29 etc. This is not teaching the newer players on how to learn the ropes. You are facerolling their entire team with characters double or triple their GS.
Also, these people will generally go PVPing with their other rich friends because the point of this whole thing is to gain entertainment by completely obliterating new players. I must say, there is some truth to that as I have enjoyed it quite a bit. It doesn't mean however that it is fair just because I enjoy it if I'm ruining the game for tons of new players.
As for tenebrous, I see you may not know about the history of this game but not to worry, I am willing to explain. Back then, did you know that you needed to spend more than a hundred thousand diamonds to unslot a single enchantment? I know it is surprising but yes that is true. Also, most of the elite folks in guilds were running rank 5 enchants, with the richest people running rank 7.
Now remember, this was a time when a stack of 99 rank 5s did not cost lost than 100k. Yes I know you won't believe it, but that is the economy in the past. So you see, twinking was not popular back then and was very very costly. People were more concerned with running dungeons and sticking with premade PVP.
I know you may not believe it, but people on Mindflayer were running BiS Gear with Rank 8/9/10s a couple of weeks after Beta. I see you may not know much about the history of this game, but not to worry, I am willing to explain. Back then, did you know there was a little thing called an exploit? Specifically for Castle Never (not to mention the other DDs). I know it's crazy to believe, but people ran this exploit a lot, selling their loot on the AH for millions of AD! Crazy, right? After that, they used their AD to purchase the best enchants, or to buy keys to unlock chests to get Tenebrous enchantments.
I do recognize that enchants were much more expensive to unlock before it was switched to gold. Do you know why nobody really cares now? Because it takes less than a week to get to level 60, and lower level PVP goes by in a flash. As for new players, they can sink or swim. "The burnt hand teaches better." -Gandalf.
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LotR nitpick, it's "The burned hand teaches best. After that advice about fire goes to the heart."
What he said.
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I'm proud of you for such a specific, fantasy-lore memory!
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There's a MAJOR difference between losing a fair fight and learning, and just been completely stomped. Seriously, what do you expect to learn from a game where someone can use gear 10k+ ranks higher than you?
And please, stop this lame and downright pathetic "gear is nothing" argument. You have just GOT to be kidding me. If it was nothing, why would people farm gear, or try to get perfects and rank 10 and armour sets? Apparently it means nothing so why bother?
Not only that, you keep asuming that every "twinker" is a blithering moron. You mean to tell me that every last twink is some "****" that
A - Doesn't know how to play the PvP mode
B - Never caps
C - Is going to be worse than someone that barely played the game more than a few days?
Not to mention your example is downright outrageous and has zero credibility to it at all. You're trying to tell me that you out-capped and outfought 5 guys, all with perfect gear, with a bunch of 9ks and you were down a man? Right, cause that'll ever happen again. Not only that, i doubt they're that many "idiot" players that are 18k+, they got that gear for a reason.
Not to mention, if you have PvP experience, why do you also need better gear to "compete" with all the low level new players?
The answer? You don't.
There is no reason for you to need perfects and 10 stones when fighting somebody who has played the game 2 days. You're just farming new players, making the game downright miserable for them, and to you that's fine?
This kind of toxic behaviour is downright disgusting. You should be helping new players learn how to play a game that YOU like, not thrashing them and making them never want to come back. If you want to kill your own game, go for it.
I am a hardcore pvper, and without trying to float my own boat, I am very good at pvp games because of my pvp experiences in action based skilled games...
I downloaded this game about 5 months ago, uninstalled after getting to level 5, reinstalled 2 weeks ago, because I found out I can level in pvp: As soon as I hit 10, i joined my first pvp game, I was obviously that "newbie" who was lost, but it took me around 4 minutes to grasp how this domination works, where i have to go blah blah, of course there was moments where i was 2 hit killed but it didn't put me off... you die, you learn...?
By my second game i was that guy in normal gear, who came first 90% of my games, most kills, most assists, that guy who basically carried the team of lost pugs - it was when I started joining <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> teams who didn't know how to play for their LIVES, and AFKers and Leavers: That i decided to twink, (YES, before I even hit 18 i decided to twink), not so i can stomp everyone, but so i can literally carry what is most of the time, a hopeless team, I've made 5 characters, twinked them all for this reason.
TL;DR - I twinked before I even had a 60 character due to the fact that pug teams suck.
TL;DR;TL;DR - Pugs made me twink.
This has been my attitude about it for the most part as well. However, I found that both the companion and the artifact should be worth tolerating some pvp for a few weeks. Also, the quests paying out the AD has been really appreciated. But, after I get the stuff I want, I will most likely just stop showing up for the PVP.
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Even more history lessons for the student! Aren't you glad the teacher himself is here to enlighten you? Did you know that because people were constantly running dungeons due to these "shortcuts", they did not like to waste hundreds of thousands of diamonds just switching the enchants back and forth their characters?
Yeah it is kind of weird. I realize that. You'd think people would want to keep spending 600,000 back and forth to keep switching their rank 10s in between characters. Sadly, that was not the case.
As for tenebrous, I have another history lesson for the unenlightened Mr Trace. Did you know that back when it was OP, few people horded it? This increased the price and the lessened availability for that enchantment to be used by everyone who got to 60 and wanting to make an alt.
You are welcome my good sir and if you have any more questions about Neverwinter, its economy, gameplay etc. Just hit me up with a private message. I'll be happy to help and that just goes to anyone in Neverwinter reading this and needing any sort of assistance
1) You tried twinking.
2) You think it's OP.
3) You like fairness, such as guild wars PVP where everyone has the same gear.
4) And you think something should be done.
My counter-points.
1) I've done both.
2) Agreed that it's OP. Just like Sentinal GWFs, or Perfect Vorpals, or Emblems, or people who stack CON and Radiants in Defense, or people who max out Artifacts, or people who PVP who run 5-man Premades, or Perma-Stealth TRs, or uber-tanky DCs, or AOE CWs who PVE.
3) Go play Guild Wars.
4) Nothing needs to be done because A) Getting to 60 is so amazing fast it doesn't matter and
What did I miss?
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Again, please do not put words in my mouth.
I don't think some of the alternate situations you listed is fair either. If cryptic intended SOME of those unfair situations so be it.
I'm just here to voice my opinion regarding the matter.
If you think levelling up to 60 is "fast" enough that it shouldn't matter. Then there is a fundamental disagreement that would take too much back and forth for it to be worth it since cryptic is likely going to ignore it.
Play nice or be a fool, a lead in like this tends to immediately disqualify everything else a person says afterwards. It is like a "The following is a poorly thought out, knee jerk reaction" disclaimer.
So there is no such thing as a paying customer currently, only new players who may become paying customers? What will they spend that money on? One of the three currently available fashion items? Like I said, it is a cycle. I know few pvper's who spam dungeons. Dungeons are run but not constantly farmed. Hardcore pvpe'rs tend to lay pvp, not farm. Not usually anyways.
Jugger Conq GF
....
I feel these quotes should do the above quote justice.
This sums it up, if you are unwilling to invest in some low cost Mulh ancient items that carry you right to t2 lvl 60 then you deserve the disadvantageous predicament you have put yourself in.
This isn't really about "having better gear". This is about the twinked player having better gear that the new F2P player is UNABLE to obtain. Even following Trace's excellent suggestions for AD generation, not many of those apply to the new Level 10 player, and even those that do (e.g. Rhix dailies) generate enough XP so that this player is quickly leveled out of the Lvl 10-19 PVP bracket.
But you all know this, and don't care. It's really just about you leveling up new PVP characters as quickly as you can via PVP without having to go through that icky PVE leveling stuff and generating a boatload of glory so that you can quickly get your Level%2