I would prefer people to never leave matches.
And before you try there is absolutely no justification for leaving a match. Ever.
Sometimes you're going to have a bad match.
Everybody else shouldn't be punished for what boils down to your attitude.
I suggested a while back, instead of the rod, use the carrot. Entice people to stay in a match, don't try to force it. Understand why they leave, the problems that cause it, and try to fix those issues. If you try to force people to stay, you just shift the problem.
And, as far as justification for leaving, when people queue up for a PvP match and are so badly out matched that the opposing team ends up camped outside their spawn point, glitching their way into the campsight and griefing them, yes, I have no problem with people leaving in that situation, or any match, for that point, where they get stomped to the point of not making minimal score and being rewarded with no glory at the end of the match. In those cases, what's the point? To be fodder for another team that has no real business being matched up against them?
They earn nothing from those matches and learn nothing from those matches. Nothing to be gained, so why bother?
Now, if there was something to be gained, even in a futile attempt to continue to resist a vastly superior team, then maybe those players would have stuck it out, and rightfully so, but you can't reasonably expect them to stick around for no reason.
I once stopped played when my son was choking on his food. I think that was justified. Or having a wife go into labor would be a justified quit. But let's be honest, those types of occurrences are only 0.0005% of the people quitting. Using these extreme examples is a terrible argument to justify people who are just quitters.
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twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
I once stopped played when my son was choking on his food. I think that was justified. Or having a wife go into labor would be a justified quit. But let's be honest, those types of occurrences are only 0.0005% of the people quitting. Using these extreme examples is a terrible argument to justify people who are just quitters.
Extreme examples are perfect when people want to take the obnoxious position of "there is no excuse for leaving a match ever". Obviously there are always some circumstances that justify that behavior, and those extreme circumstances demonstrate that quite nicely.
I once stopped played when my son was choking on his food. I think that was justified. Or having a wife go into labor would be a justified quit. But let's be honest, those types of occurrences are only 0.0005% of the people quitting. Using these extreme examples is a terrible argument to justify people who are just quitters.
Well, people were using absolutes in arguing for that there are no valid reasons to quit a match, and such silly statements deserved what they got.
Anyway, the problem with having a reward for losers is that people will just AFK at spawn. The problem with no reward for losers is they will quit. The solution is that there should be no reward for winning either, so that players who are only there to farm will never join. You know, before games kept track of stats etc people played PvP games for fun. Not for rewards. Not for stats. Not for e-peen. For fun. You can stop laughing now, it actually happened.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
Well, people were using absolutes in arguing for that there are no valid reasons to quit a match, and such silly statements deserved what they got.
Anyway, the problem with having a reward for losers is that people will just AFK at spawn. The problem with no reward for losers is they will quit. The solution is that there should be no reward for winning either, so that players who are only there to farm will never join. You know, before games kept track of stats etc people played PvP games for fun. Not for rewards. Not for stats. Not for e-peen. For fun. You can stop laughing now, it actually happened.
If you reward losers based on their effort, based on damage taken, time spent fighting on point, add in factor to account for GS differences etc., you can entice people to remain active and try to play/learn PvP instead of just standing around.
If you reward losers based on their effort, based on damage taken, time spent fighting on point, add in factor to account for GS differences etc., you can entice people to remain active and try to play/learn PvP instead of just standing around.
Especially since the only variable factoring into glory gain right now is time elapsed. As long as both teams score at least one point and you personally 300, the score does not matter at all.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited March 2014
The rewards were introduced awhile back in other mmos , to widen the playerbase in pvp, alot of people wouldnt do it. I think its ok, the way to control a decade ago was very easy, there were no instant queue system, if you were a jerk, obnoxious and did stupid things, you were just not getting invites, most of the time those poeple went away.
Here with random queues , its impossible to control, that being said, I still think there are alot of good people playing this game and 80% of the time its pretty enjoyable. You will always get people that do things otherwise, the campers, the ninja looters ect.. Mark their names and dont roll with them anymore.
I had people agree to greed runs then need every purple, stating they dont care, kick them if you want.. which is what we did, but WOW , again ten years ago.. if someone did that ONCE it would be broadcast on global and that player was pretty much permabanned from then on for runs. Guild leaders would pass lists around with this stuff.. if someone in your guild did it, you expected that person to be cut that day from the roster. Frankly , for the improvements in actual game play on modern mmos, alot of the integrity of the games have been lost.
I hate leavers, but i hate more custom teams that are matched against a random group of people. That is one of the thing that should be addresed
Sometimes it's funny. In our guild for instance, if anyone is doing PvP, they'll shout out and see if anyone else wants to come along. You get a random group of people, all from the same guild, some of who don't generally PvP much, just everyone looking to run their dailies for the most part and do things together as a guild. Inevitably, some people drop the moment they see we are all from the same guild.
As I expected people are already leaving matches again despite threat of penalty. I have played fourteen matches today. I have had leavers in ten of them. Most afked a bit and probably got kicked for afking.
If a match is unfun and unbalanced no threat will keep anyone in it.
ELO may eventually help when it reaches equilibrium.
Separating all premades, even parties of two people, from all pugs would probably help the most. As well as ensuring even party composition. I met a 3 gwf 3 tr party earlier versus 2 hr, 2 cw and 1 dc. ELO is not going to help anyone with such a composition mismatch.
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twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
As I expected people are already leaving matches again despite threat of penalty. I have played fourteen matches today. I have had leavers in ten of them. Most afked a bit and probably got kicked for afking.
If a match is unfun and unbalanced no threat will keep anyone in it.
ELO may eventually help when it reaches equilibrium.
Separating all premades, even parties of two people, from all pugs would probably help the most. As well as ensuring even party composition. I met a 3 gwf 3 tr party earlier versus 2 hr, 2 cw and 1 dc. ELO is not going to help anyone with such a composition mismatch.
Anytime you fight 6 on 5 something is definitely wrong! lol
All this talk of justice in a video game... one which just yesterday had a massive exploit with no repercussions for the cheaters, laughable. That representatives of Cryptic & PWE are preaching selective morality is disheartening.
I PvP daily, solely because of the astral diamond reward. Fairly new to the game still I'm middle of the road at best and not interested at all in MMO PvP, however I've never left a match. I will stop playing if the match is too one-sided though, seems to me there is little point be railroaded for 10 minutes when I can get the same +1 credit towards my daily for standing at the campfire. I'm in a small guild with like minded people. No one is particularly interested in PvP because they find it enjoyable but some will PvP for the daily. Like me, they will eventually stand at the spawn if too outmatched. I can honestly say I never minded when someone dropped group, I found it to be a relief actually. The leavers pretty much decided the match, for me getting a couple of them in the group meant some relax time while the counter ticks away. What gets me closer to my goal? Four 6-7 minute matches I lose or two 20 minute matches I win. I will grant winning gets you more glory, the except is I'm not interested in glory either and it eventually stockpiles anyhow as the days of daily rewards are collected.
I would love to have nothing to do ever again with PvP in this game. Being new to the game though, I find my options for earning in-game income limited. If I want to hit my daily refine limit, there's little choice most days. I know I'm not the only person who thinks this way, perhaps this type of thought is limited to my guild members and myself but somehow I doubt it. So you design a system that compels people to participate in an activity in which they might not have as much gusto for as the other people in the playfield, is it really that much of a wonder this leads to people quitting matches and bad attitudes? No. Removing the common denominator currency incentive would go a long way towards cleaning that up. Not completely, there will always be some sore losers but at least the people who would be clicking on the pvp queue will be more likely doing so because they actually want to PvP and not thinking something along the lines of "I guess I can put up with this for a half hour if it's getting me closer to what I want to buy".
The fact that you leave and queue up on a different character is what is wrong with this playerbase. It disgusts me. This playerbase is toxic, not with standard griefers and trolls but with poor attitudes that can't stand losing. I honestly don't know if this game can survive it's players.
I was once in a match where 8 people were fighting their buns off at point 1. I decide to run to point 3 to help our GWF who seems to be having trouble getting the point capped. I get to 3 to find our GWF and their GWF cap trading. That disgusted me. We all get disgusted at different things.
I left an already lost match to see whether or not the penalty was character specific or account specific. I think having it character specific is a huge oversight and that it should be account specific.
I, myself, really don't mind losing as long as the game is fun.;)
In a match today, we were getting COMPLETELY stomped. Score was 400-0. We were unable to cap a single point, we had no kills and the GWF on our team with the fewest deaths had 6. I was going to get no reward for staying, no credit for the daily, and no hope of changing that situation. So I left. Better to actually play the game with the leaver penalty in place than to sit for a long time in that situation.
I see just as many leavers, if not more, now than before the patch. There is absolutely no reason to stay in a ROFLstomp match for 150 glory. None whatsoever.
I see just as many leavers, if not more, now than before the patch. There is absolutely no reason to stay in a ROFLstomp match for 150 glory. None whatsoever.
Just as everyone had stated before during the preview. I just don't understand why they don't listen Holding someone down to give them a wedgie is not going to entice them to stay. The rewards for losing are far far too low. In fact it can end up as 0 if it's a huge roflstomp.
But sure, lets try to hold people down and smash their faces into the spawnpoint.
Because as long as Rhix gives AD for a PVP match, you're gonna have leavers. Cold hard truth right there.
Penalty should be account wide and should be an hour.
Correction: As long as there is no good incentive to stay you will have leavers. No amount of punishment will stop this. There are ALWAYS good reasons to leave a match.
Nixon the TR
Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Making a Leaver penalty does not help anything.
All you are doing is forcing people to do something they dont want to do.you need to make them want to.
As long as premades farm pugs and as long as pugs are forced to fight premades this problem will exist.
When you are forced to play against a organized hand picked group all on voice chat and you are in a random group the game will be severely unbalanced no matter the skill or gear.
Add the fact in a premade vs pug you will be rotfstomped for 20+ min and recieve nothing at all even if you do try.It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out the results.
To fix this:
1.Separate the pug/premade groups with two different queues and retain the elo system for both queues.
2.Also very Important MAKE IT SO PLAYERS CAN JOIN ANY TIME IF ANOTHER PLAYER LEAVES.
3.Reward the loosing team with something for staying to the end.(make it so you loose that reward if you sit at camp fire too long)
Its important to make the game fun for everyone even the losers.
what I see happening is the domination games are turning into an elitist premade fest.which is great if its premades ONLY.unfortunatly its NOT premades ONLY.and so we have players that dont want to be farmed for nothing at all and I dont blame them.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited March 2014
Penalties being by character and not by account won't last long, whether you think they're fair or not.
Skill node looting used to be throttled by character and you could get around it by logging a different character. You can't do that now. The mechanics are already in place, just not implemented as yet.
Correction: As long as there is no good incentive to stay you will have leavers. No amount of punishment will stop this. There are ALWAYS good reasons to leave a match.
No, there is not a good reason to leave a match (real life stuff excepted of course). Nobody is forcing you to queue up. Somebody leaves your team? Tough. Getting roflstomped by a better team? Tough. Take your medicine and stand on the ledge and look at the people who will win the match and wait for it to be over. I'm a casual player 2-3 hrs a week so don't think my time in game ain't valuable. And I hate having to stand there and wait for a match to be over! Spineless coward quitters....
Because as long as Rhix gives AD for a PVP match, you're gonna have leavers. Cold hard truth right there.
Penalty should be account wide and should be an hour.
Your just not listening. As long as one team can get roflstomped and gain little to nothing there will be leavers. Period. No penalty will change that. At least give a good reward and folks will stand there and let you roflstomp them.
Take your medicine and stand on the ledge and look at the people who will win the match and wait for it to be over. .
Sorry, folks have no incentive whatsoever to stand there and let themselves get roflstomped when they will get 100 or 0 glory. No penalty makes up for that. People have better things to do than stand waste their time so you can get your jollies.
Sorry, folks have no incentive whatsoever to stand there and let themselves get roflstomped when they will get 100 or 0 glory. No penalty makes up for that. People have better things to do than stand waste their time so you can get your jollies.
LOL, I'm the guy standing on the ledge! I suck at pvp. Nobody's forcing you to queue up for PvP. When you queue up, you have to take the good with the bad.
EDIT: All you guys want something for nothing. You want to jump from match to match to find a "good" one. "good" meaning "One I can win and get glory"
Comments
I suggested a while back, instead of the rod, use the carrot. Entice people to stay in a match, don't try to force it. Understand why they leave, the problems that cause it, and try to fix those issues. If you try to force people to stay, you just shift the problem.
And, as far as justification for leaving, when people queue up for a PvP match and are so badly out matched that the opposing team ends up camped outside their spawn point, glitching their way into the campsight and griefing them, yes, I have no problem with people leaving in that situation, or any match, for that point, where they get stomped to the point of not making minimal score and being rewarded with no glory at the end of the match. In those cases, what's the point? To be fodder for another team that has no real business being matched up against them?
They earn nothing from those matches and learn nothing from those matches. Nothing to be gained, so why bother?
Now, if there was something to be gained, even in a futile attempt to continue to resist a vastly superior team, then maybe those players would have stuck it out, and rightfully so, but you can't reasonably expect them to stick around for no reason.
Extreme examples are perfect when people want to take the obnoxious position of "there is no excuse for leaving a match ever". Obviously there are always some circumstances that justify that behavior, and those extreme circumstances demonstrate that quite nicely.
Anyway, the problem with having a reward for losers is that people will just AFK at spawn. The problem with no reward for losers is they will quit. The solution is that there should be no reward for winning either, so that players who are only there to farm will never join. You know, before games kept track of stats etc people played PvP games for fun. Not for rewards. Not for stats. Not for e-peen. For fun. You can stop laughing now, it actually happened.
If you reward losers based on their effort, based on damage taken, time spent fighting on point, add in factor to account for GS differences etc., you can entice people to remain active and try to play/learn PvP instead of just standing around.
Especially since the only variable factoring into glory gain right now is time elapsed. As long as both teams score at least one point and you personally 300, the score does not matter at all.
Here with random queues , its impossible to control, that being said, I still think there are alot of good people playing this game and 80% of the time its pretty enjoyable. You will always get people that do things otherwise, the campers, the ninja looters ect.. Mark their names and dont roll with them anymore.
I had people agree to greed runs then need every purple, stating they dont care, kick them if you want.. which is what we did, but WOW , again ten years ago.. if someone did that ONCE it would be broadcast on global and that player was pretty much permabanned from then on for runs. Guild leaders would pass lists around with this stuff.. if someone in your guild did it, you expected that person to be cut that day from the roster. Frankly , for the improvements in actual game play on modern mmos, alot of the integrity of the games have been lost.
I
Sometimes it's funny. In our guild for instance, if anyone is doing PvP, they'll shout out and see if anyone else wants to come along. You get a random group of people, all from the same guild, some of who don't generally PvP much, just everyone looking to run their dailies for the most part and do things together as a guild. Inevitably, some people drop the moment they see we are all from the same guild.
If a match is unfun and unbalanced no threat will keep anyone in it.
ELO may eventually help when it reaches equilibrium.
Separating all premades, even parties of two people, from all pugs would probably help the most. As well as ensuring even party composition. I met a 3 gwf 3 tr party earlier versus 2 hr, 2 cw and 1 dc. ELO is not going to help anyone with such a composition mismatch.
Anytime you fight 6 on 5 something is definitely wrong! lol
Finally a matchmaking issue that everyone can agree is serious...
I PvP daily, solely because of the astral diamond reward. Fairly new to the game still I'm middle of the road at best and not interested at all in MMO PvP, however I've never left a match. I will stop playing if the match is too one-sided though, seems to me there is little point be railroaded for 10 minutes when I can get the same +1 credit towards my daily for standing at the campfire. I'm in a small guild with like minded people. No one is particularly interested in PvP because they find it enjoyable but some will PvP for the daily. Like me, they will eventually stand at the spawn if too outmatched. I can honestly say I never minded when someone dropped group, I found it to be a relief actually. The leavers pretty much decided the match, for me getting a couple of them in the group meant some relax time while the counter ticks away. What gets me closer to my goal? Four 6-7 minute matches I lose or two 20 minute matches I win. I will grant winning gets you more glory, the except is I'm not interested in glory either and it eventually stockpiles anyhow as the days of daily rewards are collected.
I would love to have nothing to do ever again with PvP in this game. Being new to the game though, I find my options for earning in-game income limited. If I want to hit my daily refine limit, there's little choice most days. I know I'm not the only person who thinks this way, perhaps this type of thought is limited to my guild members and myself but somehow I doubt it. So you design a system that compels people to participate in an activity in which they might not have as much gusto for as the other people in the playfield, is it really that much of a wonder this leads to people quitting matches and bad attitudes? No. Removing the common denominator currency incentive would go a long way towards cleaning that up. Not completely, there will always be some sore losers but at least the people who would be clicking on the pvp queue will be more likely doing so because they actually want to PvP and not thinking something along the lines of "I guess I can put up with this for a half hour if it's getting me closer to what I want to buy".
I was once in a match where 8 people were fighting their buns off at point 1. I decide to run to point 3 to help our GWF who seems to be having trouble getting the point capped. I get to 3 to find our GWF and their GWF cap trading. That disgusted me. We all get disgusted at different things.
I left an already lost match to see whether or not the penalty was character specific or account specific. I think having it character specific is a huge oversight and that it should be account specific.
I, myself, really don't mind losing as long as the game is fun.;)
Just as everyone had stated before during the preview. I just don't understand why they don't listen Holding someone down to give them a wedgie is not going to entice them to stay. The rewards for losing are far far too low. In fact it can end up as 0 if it's a huge roflstomp.
But sure, lets try to hold people down and smash their faces into the spawnpoint.
Why is this thread still ongoing?
The moderator pretty much shot this down with this response
Because as long as Rhix gives AD for a PVP match, you're gonna have leavers. Cold hard truth right there.
Penalty should be account wide and should be an hour.
Correction: As long as there is no good incentive to stay you will have leavers. No amount of punishment will stop this. There are ALWAYS good reasons to leave a match.
Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.
All you are doing is forcing people to do something they dont want to do.you need to make them want to.
As long as premades farm pugs and as long as pugs are forced to fight premades this problem will exist.
When you are forced to play against a organized hand picked group all on voice chat and you are in a random group the game will be severely unbalanced no matter the skill or gear.
Add the fact in a premade vs pug you will be rotfstomped for 20+ min and recieve nothing at all even if you do try.It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out the results.
To fix this:
1.Separate the pug/premade groups with two different queues and retain the elo system for both queues.
2.Also very Important MAKE IT SO PLAYERS CAN JOIN ANY TIME IF ANOTHER PLAYER LEAVES.
3.Reward the loosing team with something for staying to the end.(make it so you loose that reward if you sit at camp fire too long)
Its important to make the game fun for everyone even the losers.
what I see happening is the domination games are turning into an elitist premade fest.which is great if its premades ONLY.unfortunatly its NOT premades ONLY.and so we have players that dont want to be farmed for nothing at all and I dont blame them.
Skill node looting used to be throttled by character and you could get around it by logging a different character. You can't do that now. The mechanics are already in place, just not implemented as yet.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
No, there is not a good reason to leave a match (real life stuff excepted of course). Nobody is forcing you to queue up. Somebody leaves your team? Tough. Getting roflstomped by a better team? Tough. Take your medicine and stand on the ledge and look at the people who will win the match and wait for it to be over. I'm a casual player 2-3 hrs a week so don't think my time in game ain't valuable. And I hate having to stand there and wait for a match to be over! Spineless coward quitters....
Make the PvP artifact BoE so I can buy it on the AH. Then I don't have to PvP.
Yes. This attitude will win the hearts and minds of players.
Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Your just not listening. As long as one team can get roflstomped and gain little to nothing there will be leavers. Period. No penalty will change that. At least give a good reward and folks will stand there and let you roflstomp them.
Sorry, folks have no incentive whatsoever to stand there and let themselves get roflstomped when they will get 100 or 0 glory. No penalty makes up for that. People have better things to do than stand waste their time so you can get your jollies.
LOL, I'm the guy standing on the ledge! I suck at pvp. Nobody's forcing you to queue up for PvP. When you queue up, you have to take the good with the bad.
EDIT: All you guys want something for nothing. You want to jump from match to match to find a "good" one. "good" meaning "One I can win and get glory"