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Hunter Ranger Encounter "Fox Shift" - Working as intended or bugged?
deads6667
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 112 Bounty Hunter
the ability says very clearly "Dash to nearby targets, reducing their Run Speed while increasing your own. Each target can only be hit once."
and yet, anyone can see against 1 enemy it hits them more than once. bugged? working as intended?
Update: Utuwer found the last patch notes pertaining to fox shift before release, and it reads:
Fox Shift: This power can now hit the same target twice.
Fox Shift: The number of bounces this power can make is 3, down from 5.
those patch notes specifically say it can hit a single target twice, and yet the ability is still hitting a single target more than that. to me that looks like definitive confirmation from an official source that it IS currently bugged and was meant to only hit twice in a 1v1 situation.
id also say its confirmation the tooltip is wrong. i hadn't considered the possibility that in fact both the tooltip and the ability execution were wrong.
if they intended for fox shift to hit a single target many times as it currently does, they could have easily said in those patch notes "this power can now hit the same target more than once" instead of them saying "twice".
and yet, anyone can see against 1 enemy it hits them more than once. bugged? working as intended?
Update: Utuwer found the last patch notes pertaining to fox shift before release, and it reads:
Fox Shift: This power can now hit the same target twice.
Fox Shift: The number of bounces this power can make is 3, down from 5.
those patch notes specifically say it can hit a single target twice, and yet the ability is still hitting a single target more than that. to me that looks like definitive confirmation from an official source that it IS currently bugged and was meant to only hit twice in a 1v1 situation.
id also say its confirmation the tooltip is wrong. i hadn't considered the possibility that in fact both the tooltip and the ability execution were wrong.
if they intended for fox shift to hit a single target many times as it currently does, they could have easily said in those patch notes "this power can now hit the same target more than once" instead of them saying "twice".
Post edited by deads6667 on
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It really doesn't matter what our opinions are of the ability's "balance" as it is right now though. It seems obvious to me that either the tooltip is wrong, or the ability is not executing as intended. i've searched these forums and can find no official acknowledgement of either, so what im looking for is someone in the know to clarify: tooltip error or ability error? or am i missing something?
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?587651-Fox-Shift-Working-as-Intended
Before release ranger, they nerfed the skill's damage and let it hit one target multiple times as compensate, forgot to change the description though.
And no, it does not grant ranger's any kind of immunity. While using it, rangers can be hit and interrupted by any kind of cc.
also since you have a little backstory to go with it, where is any of that info coming from exactly? ive never seen anything either from devs saying they let it hit one target multiple times to compensate for a pre-release nerf?
and yes, it does grant immunity while its attacking, that was never in question
It does not grant immunity at all. Any cc ability that doesn't require a target can still hit them decently easily.
ok so youre acknowledging that they cant be targeted while attacking, which goes to what i said already about their immunity but actually even AOE that doesnt require a target, for instance CW Oppressive Force, will not interrupt the attack once it starts, the hunter will not be dazed and the attack finishes out. ive seen it way more than once
I'm kinda thinking the developers might have just went forward with the intended amount of damage that was supposed to be applied to only single activation. Against opponents of comparable gear, it hits for something like 5k 4k 5k... I've actually been hit by top-quality geared people w/R10 enchants where the damage pops up something like 6k 7k 6k.... and all of that damage spikes within like 1.5 seconds or something.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Errm why would the dev lie? If we cannot trust the words directly from the game developer's "mouth", then what?
Seems a very obvious case (among many others) of a badly written tooltip. Basically almost nothing works 100% as described in tooltips and they are always incomplete.
I'll just quote you: "No, just no."
Apparently you feel any attack that does decent damage is OP'ed or bugged? Let's look at the facts shall we?
Fox Shift can hit one target multiple times if there are less targets vs hits in the area.
A dev has confirmed it is working as intended.
The tooltip says it can only hit each target once.
Based on that here is your reasoning:
The skill is bugged
The Dev doesn't know what he is talking about.
The words are there in the tooltip, and it does a lot of damage vs a single target so it is bugged!!!
Really... maybe you are the one that doesn't know what they are talking about? After all, I'd trust the action it'self + a Dev confirmation more than a toolitip.
I'll just remember that if a class can kill you, it must be OP'ed....
I killed the guy that landed the 6k 7k 6k Fox Shift on me.
But it's still OP.
...
Well, OK :rolleyes:, not exactly OP, but a damage a tad too high IMO.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I cant disagree that fox shift does good damage, but what other high damage melee powers do hr's have? Not to be mean, but if you compare fox shift to lashing blade, its pretty one sided there...
As if Fox Shift is anything other than a way to kill people in all greens wandering around by themselves. If it isn't Fox Shift that kills such a player, it would be any other encounter.
I never said the dev lied, what im saying is there is a world of difference between an official announcement on the forums thats left for everybody to see, and a 1 word answer to a player in a private conversation between 2 people.
The dev might not have had the time to fact-check his answer and frankly he didnt need to in that circumstance, as its a private conversation that we arent even privy to see the rest of. The person who posted that screenshot also gave a background story that is entirely unfounded thus far, so im sorry but that screencap is not meaningful at all.
With the much more obvious and glaring bug of grasping roots currently, its not inconceivable this possible issue is being overlooked. One thing is for certain though either the tooltip or the ability is currently wrong though, and so far as i can find there is no official word anywhere on which it is. I created this thread looking for an answer and hopefully a dev will chime in or someone else has more meaningful insight than has been provided.
You can see his character in the twitch livestream here:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?606211-Valentine-s-Day-PvP-with-the-Devs-Livestream-2-14-3-30PM-PST!
In this preview patch note, it said that Fox shift can hit a single target twice, reduced number of bounces from 5 to 3, a.k.a damage nerf.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?526151-NW-10-20131105a-5-Shadowmantle-Preview-Patch-Notes
However,when they officially released ranger, they did not include any change to ranger's skills in the official patch note even that they actually changed them at the last minute, such as nerfing aspect of falcon range from 15' to 9'. So, since the dev confirmed it as working as intended, I accept it as working as intended.
it is very helpful that youve dug up patch notes pertaining to fox shift thank you. lets see...
Fox Shift: This power can now hit the same target twice.
Fox Shift: The number of bounces this power can make is 3, down from 5.
those patch notes specifically say it can hit a single target twice, and yet the ability is still hitting a single target more than that. to me that looks like definitive confirmation from an official post that it IS currently bugged.
if thats the last patch notes out for fox shift then id also say its confirmation the tooltip IS wrong. i hadn't considered the possibility that in fact both the tooltip and the ability execution were wrong before.
if they intended for fox shift to hit a single target many times as it currently does, they could have easily said in those patch notes "this power can now hit the same target more than once" instead of them saying "twice" dont you think?
Bull HAMSTER, that move plus the hunter's ability to dodge 50 times is WAY OP.
Its just less stamina per dodge with less distance per dodge...its not like they have 50; its 5-6 max with full stamina if you spam it. They need to actually time it or they get more screwed than other classes since their dodge literally covers no distance.
Try looking at from the whole persepctive rather than the skill alone.
With P.Vorpal + Executioner build + extra buffs (like First Strike) sure, LB could do maybe around 20k or more. But to do so requires melee range, use of Vopral enchantments, and give up either Sneak Attack or Tenacious Concealment. Truthfully speaking, most competitive TRs have simply moved away from that due to the current meta of the PvP. It's an outdated "one big hit doctrine" that deals one big damage to the target, and then gets the TR killed afterwards.
On the other hand, how difficult is it to land the Constricting Arrow-Fox's Shift combo and then disengage to safety?
...
I rest my case.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
How do I get infinite dodges? Please tell me! I can chain 6 max with 19 Str and elven resolve. Fox is the only burst damage Hr has in melee. And it is nowhere near deep gash, lash, or anvil.
The effective usefulness of lashing vs avg pvpers is HAMSTER. To make it effective you need to shadow strike from stealth to daze or if your a bit to far , nothing , if they dodge after , nothing, a little latency , nothing. So if you don't want to effectively waste an encounter , you need the proper setup to be sure it's not wasted. ie. cc'd,or dumb/blind/nubbin .
Vs the difficult activation. Of that other skill your compairing itto.
Are you kidding me? ive seen LB 1 hit gfs, even gwfs DURING unstoppable. It can do waaaay more than youre advertising. So, your saying that lashing blade leaves tr's wide open to get killed, but it was only 1 encounter that had to be used. But if you combo Constricting Arrow and Fox's Shift, not only did you use one of the constricting vines to close after the initial CA, but another gets wasted on the fact that youre hitting FS during it. So now ive wasted 2 encounters to your 1, AND my dodges cant get me as far away as yours(TR) can?
While were talking about combos, why cant a whisperknife tr hit someone with Vengeance's Pursuit, THEN lashing blade someone else. Now, not only did you most likely 1 hit a squishy, you can also dash away if what you hit is still standing. Or, a normal tr hit LB, then use bait and switch to disengage?
...
I rest my case.
Maybe in under-60 level PvP, with a terrible, terribly equipped GF/GWF pitted against a TR using Mulhorand items + Perfect grade enchantments shipped from an alt. Otherwise, whatever "1-hitting GF/GWFs" you've seen, it is a thing of the past. My bet's on you simply saw things wrong, because as it is, its impossible.
In most cases, under present equipment/build 20k, maybe at extremes 25k is about the highest limit in PvP --- one such instance being Snow's build, in which case even his build -- a very good TR, mind you -- is widely criticized of being totally devoid of survivability.
Most PvPers -- at least above average levels -- reel in at least 30k HP, even the squishy CW/HR classes. Even against these squishies, most TR builds nowadaus crits LB around around 15k, on the gross average.
Your talking as if CA ends within the duration of FS activation, as well as you've got nothing that procs grasping roots.
Both you and I know things don't really happen that way.
Again, you're assuming a TR can "1 hit" a squishy. Try the TR boards and ask for a consensus as to whether modern TRs can 1 hit squishies that are on par in gear/build with oneself -- you're talking about the days before they nerfed LB from a true "1 shot" power to a "very strong melee power". You'll probably learn the reason why most TRs have also moved from LB to Impact Shot spamming.
At this point, I'm not sure if you're really knowledgeable in just what TRs can do, and what not.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Nope. Ran pvp enough times in the 60's to see that LB is STILL the potential 1 hit killer. Youre telling me that a gwf in full unstoppable with around 2k def cant be 1 hit by LB? I think youre in a dream world. Doesn't happen often, true. But it still happens. The "above average" your talking about is just that, above average. Im talking about the average pvp, where squishies at best end with well below 30k, with gfs/gwfs being a bit over 30k(unless theyre going tenebrous).
Im not talking about it ending during. If you put 3 points in CA, its vines proc 3 times: once right after the hit, then 2 every 3 seconds after. The first vines are activating when youre closing to melee. the 2nd hits while youre in Fox's shift. The 3rd will hit as youre disengaging... which with rangers short dash distance isn't that far away, is it?
The point is, I don't think youre quite knowledgeable about what a tr can do, and what they cant either. Im sure you can also find enough people in chat/forums whove had the entire team chasing a permastealth ITC rogue around, only to give up when 4 people couldn't catch/kill them. Ive seen that bs, so you cant tell me what a tr can/cant do either.
I really don't believe you have an understanding of what rangers can do either. All they have in their arsenal is powerful range powers, with meh melee powers(unless used in tandem with other abilities/setups, but then again, that's throwing up multiple abilities). Fox's shift does great damage... against 1 target. Lashing Blade does great damage... against 1 target. and if you use it while stealthed, auto crits, and youre also likely using it in an enemies back, while said enemies' distracted.
Point is, I still see rogues using lashing blade. yes, in pvp. Ive been 1 hit by it(24k ranger w/ 1800 def), and have not been 1 hit by it too. To say that they cant 1 hit enemies, lends me to believe youre in a fantasy land, because ive seen gwfs with 2k def(not sure what level of unstoppable, but definitely in unstoppable) get 1 shot by trs. Youre not taking into consideration whether the rogue had combat advantage, or was buffed, but its still possible.
To say Lashing Blade cant 1 hit players is to say that rangers' aimed shot cant 1 hit players too then. And at least experienced players know what that abilities' capable of.
In any case this should be in the Bug Reports Forum so the developers who need to see it will and make the necessary changes.
Vide of one shotting a gwf. And if it is. 20k "one shot" then it's a bad gwf.
Maybe a fully buffed and fully debuffed prone target maybe high 20's . Anything higher would be the same circumstances with bIs vs a ****. And if they are debuffed then it is a team effort.
Maybe your thinking of aim shot
Unstoppable itself is worth 50% damage reduction. Most GWFs that have any consideration for PvP checks in at +30k HP at the least. Let's assume the GWF is a weaky weak one, fresh lv60 with lot's of blues and merely 23K HP. Even at that state, not taking any other forms of extra defense into consideration, to 1-shot a 23k GWF in Unstoppable requires a crit LB that lands a default 46k damage. That amount of crit simply does not happen in PvP since mod2.
Do you want the folks in this thread to take you seriously? Then stop talking out of your HAMSTER.
Did you sell your grasping roots to vendor or something?
Which is relevant to this discussion.. how..? Were we talking about ITC/perma TR-defense mechanisms?
That's weird, because I thought we were talking about Fox's Shift and how seemingly its damage seems a tad too high, until you started spewing bogus claims on how TRs one-shot GFs and GWFs with LB.
Make up your mind, geez.
HR's tote a number of CCs which are potent, and some even simply bugged. They have the initial advantage of distance which even the GWF in Unstoppable is denied in its attempt to close in, as well as around 4~5 dodges which, when timed well, simply blows off enemy encounter powers to thin air regardless of distance. Even if some do succeed in closing in, it is simply a matter of "dodge-apply constricting arrow-dodge-apply grasping roots-Fox's Shift-dodge or shift backwards 50 feet" and then start shooting.
Ofcourse, that's just how the class is built, and nobody is saying that's OP or anything. (Well, some very ill-versed people are claiming that it is, but nobody seriously believes HRs do 50 dodges) It's simply a matter of overall balance in which, considering the whole wide range of CCs HRs throw around, a single-cast encounter with merely 15sec recharge that lands average higher than 8~9k damage seems a bit overboard, especially when the power is a very, very easy to hit melee.. coming from an essentially ranged class.
Please.
Your very mention of a "1 shot LB" pretty much defines your level of understanding in regards to the current meta of the game. You're speaking of a dead-and-gone, extinct method of TR tactics that simply doesn't happen anymore. The only possible/rational explanation is that;
(1) You are very lacking in both gameplay AND gear/equipment level
(2) You met an out-dated TR build (that noboy uses anymore) which ramps up every stat to one big LB hit
(3) And got 1-shot killed by a TR that has zero survivability.
...and we're supposed to take you seriously? :rolleyes:
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'