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vote kick changes please
gnomeraider
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I am hoping that some changes can be made to the vote kick policy.
I was just in SP and spent the time to clear the whole dungeon and was at the last boss. The GF had to leave and then the rest started following suit. This left me as the last person in the dungeon that had the chest unlocked.
People started coming in and vote kicked the DC that joined because they had a friend that wanted to join, then another was kicked and next thing I know I got kicked.
Utterly ridiculous that I spent the time and had the chest open only to get kicked because someone wants to create their own little party.
I was just in SP and spent the time to clear the whole dungeon and was at the last boss. The GF had to leave and then the rest started following suit. This left me as the last person in the dungeon that had the chest unlocked.
People started coming in and vote kicked the DC that joined because they had a friend that wanted to join, then another was kicked and next thing I know I got kicked.
Utterly ridiculous that I spent the time and had the chest open only to get kicked because someone wants to create their own little party.
Post edited by gnomeraider on
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Now, taking that into consideration, I'd like to see some limits put in place - like if someone helped in a boss fight, they are included in the loot roll, even if they get kicked, or being unable to kick someone immediately before, during, or right after a boss is fought/defeated.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Right now it's 2v2 where 2 means a successful vote kick. This means if two people join a pug group they can and unfortunately do literally hijack entire delves. You can have three people in a guild doing things the way the majority wants yet because 2 people are considering the majority it really just throws a curveball of a wrench into the mix.
The second thing which needs to be added is options for current party members. If people don't want the group refilled then give them that option.
I also have a love-hate opinion of Bioshrike's solution. The last thing I want is for somebody who I vote kick to get the chance to roll on loot because if I do vote kick you, even after the first boss, I have a dang good reason to. However I think a better solution would be to have that occur if you get vote kicked by players who did not kill the first boss in order to put a side effect to delve hijacking. I think it would be sweet justice to need on a drop in a delve that was hijacked.
And finally the truth is players are here to have fun. In all honesty if you find yourself needing to vote kick people out often chances are you are the cause. As such there needs to be a statute of reasonable limitations placed on the vote kick system. If you are successfully vote kicking players out of delves five times a day you probably shouldn't have access to it.
I'm sorry but in my most honest and personal experience the average players are not that bad. If you're vote kicking people out consistently it is almost certainly abuse of the feature. Vote kicking should be put on a cooldown after the first couple of vote kicks and the sooner you use it after the cooldown the longer the following cooldown should run.
Long story short, there needs to be some systems put in place to automatically handle abuse of the system.
thats the whole reason i came to forum to voice my concern with this problem spending hours working gg just to get kicked by a premade when valuable drops come along something really needs to be done about this system theres far to many scum bags out there for such a loop hole to be allowed
Oh wait, you already did. *buys more gear from auction*
If the main boss fight has started, no one should be able to start a vote kick (unless it ends in a wipe, at which time you can start a vote kick up until such time as the fight is started again).
Also, once the main boss fight starts, no one else should be able to enter a dungeon.
Once the main boss has been defeated, no one can start a vote kick.
the fact is it isnt just premades either have done random queue dungeons and had people initiate kicks at boss i all ways say no unless there is good reason but thats just me we shouldnt have to avoid anything when a fix would be so simple
One was for an FH in progress that were waiting for someone or didn't want a fifth.
The second was another SP in progress, knew that one was going to happen last to join and no CW.
I think in DDO a vote kick has to be initiated by the party leader, that might be a way to start.
Yes it should be a majority (if not unanimous) amongst the other part members with players that queued up together should only count as one vote. This way a group of 2 players wouldn't be able to kick everyone out of the group as happens now.
In addition, a groups of 4 players should be unable to kick anyone at all to prevent the prevalent abuse by guilds.
GF who doesn't use any marks? Kicked.
CW who use Ice Storm? Kicked.
GWF that knock add's all over the place? Kicked.
DC that don't use circles? Kicked.
I'll always ask nicely that someone either stop doing a certain action, or request that they start using a needed power, before voting to kick but 9/10 times when a player is clearly concentrating on a self-interested rotation that screws things up for everyone else they are immune to requests to stop. They are fully aware that what they are doing isn't helpful, but it might get them #1 paingiver and there are a whole lot of players that only care about that.
The crazy thing is that some groups won't kick these problem players, then get to the bosses and can't understand why it's so hard. Then those players quit, leaving me with the person that's causing the wipes in the first place. The queue is an ugly place, full of fools and mouth breathers. The vote kick is really the only bastion against those types of people. Perma-stealth TR's, I'm looking at you...
Having experienced it and have read and heard about others experiences is people taking groups over.
-there should be a fix to keep this from happening, it is just not right and against the ToS.
Most of the time it is pre mades not want the last slot filled.
-there should be a way to get these groups out of the queue, it bottle necks the queue so you may not be able to group unless you pre make the group.
The last one is a dps getting kicked due to group wanting a CW.
-this is just a convenience / misconception deal, there is no dungeon that requires a CW, it can just make it easy.
As an example if you do not have a CW in SP most people won't run it, but me the GWF and the GF did the last half of the final boss while the rest of the group including the CW sat at the campfire. I have also done a full run in MD without a CW. In neither group were we over geared, sure it may have taken longer but we did do it.
Am I the best player, nah, but neither am I the worst.
MD can easily be done without a CW. I would like to see a vid of a group doing SP at (near) minimum gear scores without a CW though as that sounds a real challenge.
I have done the 2nd half of the SP final boss with just me on a GWF and a GF and also once with 2 GWFs. It's clearly much harder this way and the one DPSing the boss need to do their best not to grab any agro on the adds but it certainly can be done.
Do I recommend it? No. It's much easier with a CW. Actually this whole battle is pretty easy, some people just don't understand how to keep out of trouble.
Oh, I know it is possible as I have done it myself without a CW, but that was at considerable higher average GS than the entry requirement.
But my question was about the GS did gnomeraider do this since he stated that his group was not over-geared, which I take to mean is close to the entry GS (and without BiS weapons / weapon enchantments / armour enchantments / rare artifacts obviously).
EDIT: Just realised that this conversation has gone totally off-topic somehow.......
A: If kicked from a party that you have the DD chest unlocked, you are given a key that is used to unlock the DD chest at your leisure.
B: Any party with 3 or less players in them that do not make any forward progress (advance the quest or down a boss) within 10 minutes are auto-disbanded and the instance is closed if all players are out of combat, each remaining member receives a key as noted above. This would greatly improve the queue system by clearing out all the fail instances which are clogging up the system preventing players from utilizing the system and preventing fresh instances from being formed for new players.
The coding for both of the above items already exist, DD chest keys were coded and on preview during Mod 2 testing, and the auto disband/instance close feature is used prominently in domination PVP, only requiring some minor alteration to apply to pve dungeons when the above stipulations are met.
Taking away party/instance control from the leader in favor of a votekicking system combined with allowing queue replacements after the first boss has resulted in never ending fail instances clogging the system down and preventing players from using the queue and replacement system as it was intended. And while honest people are banging their head against a wall trying to use the system as it was designed, these fail instances are prone to hostile takeover/hijacking by less savory types as they know the moment they queue and see 3 or less players that a: they can get an alt/friend to insta-queue into this party and b: they can votekick everyone with impunity as the only reason their group is even available to queue is because they have been failing the longest.
As for hijacking, this wouldn't have existed if it weren't for how the queue system works today. One seemed like a small fix to party making/grouping/matchmaking actually gave us a whole new problem to deal with, one that is exploited by players. It wasn't intended to be used that way, but so far it currently is and until Cryptic does something about it, it will continue to happen and taken advantage of.
The same applies to kicking because of loot and i can't believe Cryptic is still overlooking this situation. Submitting a ticket to Cryptic about this doesn't seem to do anything, it's like they don't care. All they reply with is "we are sorry... blah blah blah, use the /ignore command to blah blah blah". With each passing day that something isn't being done about this, more people will start exploiting this. It is because they know they can get away with it that they do it. It is the main reason why i am playing this game less and less, because everybody looks suspicious to me, can't even play a game in peace without griefers everywhere.
Solutions:
Hijackers- Disable kicking by ANYONE every time a new player joins for X number of minutes.
Kicking from loot drop- This is always going to be an issue because of loopholes, such as kicking before initiating boss. The only thing i can suggest is:
1. Disable kicking during combat from any player.
2. Disable kicking for X number of minutes once the system detects a boss is dead. This time the number of minutes should be longer since runs like Epic Pirate King only take about 12 minutes to kill all 3 bosses.
We're waiting on you Cryptic. We don't want news about new pvp gear. We want action against kicking and hijacking.
Repeatedly sending any DC / GF that queues into ~5 hour old instances that have people who have failed, and will continue to fail, even with the new support is not working. It would be better to allow people to invite friends or guild members to already started instances (AND NOT AUTO-FILL).. not like it isn't possible, even if it is in a round-about manner.
Also, there should be NO priority queue for GFs. 1) There isn't enough of them. 2) Most of them don't hold aggro regardless, they're just another (wasted) DPS slot.
(Also you need three (3) people to kick initially, 2 yes vs. 2 no is a failed kick)
I guess I would probably be considered over-geared in a sense. I am still trying to get my tier 2 armour, missing a couple pieces. Around 12k. I have not run CN / MC / VT.
The tank may have been over geared, all I know is he was able to grab all the mobs and agro them.
Err, that is about 50% more GS than the entry requirement.
I am pretty sure that SP is one of the Tier 2s (**looks suspiciously at ToS**) that can be done legitimately at 8300 GS with a CW. I would be more surprised if SP wasn't doable without a CW if your character easily meets the entry requirements for tier 2.5+ dungeons...
If CS is telling you to address this issue using ignore, their staff don't even know how ignore works. It doesn't prevent you from being grouped with an offending player, only from seeing their chat.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
1) Need a vote by all the players "Yes" except player being kicked.
2) Cannot kick for 2mins after ANY boss is killed.
3) Cannot kick after end-boss is killed at all.
4) Cannot kick during boss fights.
5) More than on person at a time cannot get into a dungeon already in progress. So 2 or more people cannot party and join a dungeon in progress. Single players only.
I mean they could still theoretically just queue separately and get in... however, it's not likely.
Good combination of ideas.
That is EXACTLY what they gave me in response to submitting a ticket. Although not in those "blah blah blah" words, they actually told me, not once but TWICE, to use the ignore command. Yes i submitted 2 tickets because i have two accounts: A main and a side account. I was kicked twice that day, one on each account, which led me to submit a ticket to them in the first place.
I submitted a ticket on my main account, reply: "we're sorry... use the /ignore comand..."
I submitted a ticket on my other account, reply: "we're sorry... use the /ignore command..."
Is sad how they put responsability in the players. I got the same response, of course I don't play dungeons anymore.
Being the PVE the main reason to play this game I stopped playing, horrible to feel unsafe in a group, remembers me of rangnarok 10 yeas ago... I don't want this tension anymore. Sometimes if I find trusted people online, then I run.
Told my friends about this problem.