Neither the rogue or gwf are under discussion, although my prognostics about the classes are wrong.
a well played rogue makes a dungeon alone. A destroyer need a very powerful gear + artefacts + potions complete healing to do the same job (and I'm not sure whether it will succeed) ... so do not give me "more tank".
and this is precisely the great problem of rogue, he excels in its ability to be "anti-social" ... but again, not the classes themselves are being discussed ... before this topic becomes a "trap ".
Neither the rogue or gwf are under discussion, although my prognostics about the classes are wrong.
a well played rogue makes a dungeon alone. A destroyer need a very powerful gear + artefacts + potions complete healing to do the same job (and I'm not sure whether it will succeed) ... so do not give me "more tank".
and this is precisely the great problem of rogue, he excels in its ability to be "anti-social" ... but again, not the classes themselves are being discussed ... before this topic becomes a "trap ".
Thats really useful when you can go into epic dungeons only via queue. But you have right, it is OT.
It's amazing how unappreciated a GF is. Outside CN, I would much rather take a KC GF for another CW or GWF.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2014
It would be interesting to catalogue the various buff/debuff abilities in game to truly measure their stacking ability. While i concur with dio's overall premise the specifics ive observed differ from his conclusion, that most stack multiplicatively, is not exactly true. Most debuffs stack additively while most buffs stack multiplicatively with themselves and with debuffs(this, more than anything is responsible for most of the insane dmg seen). The specifics however vary on a case by case basis.
You are against someone who said that there is a problem?
Maybe is better to want the problem to be fixed - no ?
Who said that you need less than 5 ppl to play D&D ?
What he is saying is that it isn't a problem for 99% of the folks playing the game. Maybe if you are in an uber guild with uber geared folks and can always put together super teams. The vast majority of folks don't have their boons yet and are getting their %$$s kicked in the dungeons. Making the content harder would be equivalent to not allowing new folks to sign up.
And always have been the total opposite for pugs and casual playerbase, people who find t2 dungs almost too hard, people who never cared for respecc to a better dps build (or simply does'nt want to) people who "just play this way" (after i decided to never join a guild again, a few months ago, i mostly pug and when i give people orders to improve pug's perfomance i've received that same answer a few times already) people who just hate "cookie cutter" builds, as if improving your toon wasnt one of the goals of any role freaking playing game, or if those same builds are only a guide, you are wellcome to add improvements if you find one.
You are Spike. There is no problem being Spike, but your post made it appear that you did not believe in Johnny's. I will place money that Johnny is a dumb *** to you. People that dillute Spike with being Johnny or Timmy confuse you and make you question their intelligence.
Heh, ty, but im more a johnny/spike than a pure spike, anyway maybe its because english is actually my 3rd language, but i never wanted to become irrespectful to timmys and johnnys, i believe those are the main playing base and they're vital for any game survival, but when you're playing in a T2 dungeon with other 4 players, you should try to be less egoist and cooperate, anyway, this topic is already finished, there are no more arguments to say, Buff/debuffs stacking should be toned down, that wouldnt affect the casual player base, only the top ecchelon who can abuse it.
Most people don't utilize damage taken debuffs anywhere near the potential limit. Adding some sort of diminishing return on damage taken debuffs, or even a flat cap at say 100% maximum damage taken debuff, will minimally harm stupid newbies, bridge the gap between stupid newbies and people who understand game mechanics.
Imo, hr, tr, and gf, are balanced. Cw, gwf, and in some ways dc, are overpowered and make the game unfun. By nerfing the unlimited target cap of say oppressive force to 10-15, it wouldn't harm newbies too much, would moderately affect teams in t2 dungeons, and greatly affect the super duper gamers who gather 50 mobs in one area and oppressive it all to death.
But you won't see any such changes because cryptic is lazy. Everybody roll a cw for pve, and a gwf for pvp, and everything will be balanced. 5 cw teams running amok, splitting in 2-3 groups bunnyhopping each other clearing rooms. 5 gwf teams having one gwf standing on each platform, with two gwf running between 1 and 2, 2 and 3, slowly bonking each others heads to death. Perfect balance.
ai ai ai I dont wanna lose my 1.2M ice knives!
seriously tho pve CWs are just as broken as pvp GWFs
Ok , a cw alone, relying on its internal mechanics can do all this damage ? I think No. Multiple cw can . And I already said why I think it wrong .
On the other hand , a mixed party, even if the cw can do "this damage" I do not particularly see a problem . Why other classes directly interfered with its own internal mechanics.
I'm just not in favor of encounters of the same class " if they annul " as I favor encounters of different classes that have a special interaction. In other words , make the rogue / gf can cause damage "single 3.5 m" while the gwf / ranger / cw cause "1.m aoe" .
Recalculate the damages in the proposed direction seems to me a sort of " reboot" . I think more beneficial than a reboot , you balance the partys in the sense that they , together , are able to reproduce the effect of " cw broken pve " and then launch versions of the same dungeon whose enemies are at lvl 100 or something . It is a new challenge for a party that need must be balanced .
its indeed a bug. not gonna bother reporting it cause last time someone i know reported a bug, he got banned instead. yeah get mind blown.
i'll just enjoy my ice knives
It's amazing how unappreciated a GF is. Outside CN, I would much rather take a KC GF for another CW or GWF.
No, you wouldn't take a GF. You just want the KC bonus, and the GF happens to be the class that uses that armor. If another class could use that set, you would take it in a heartbeat.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
No, you wouldn't take a GF. You just want the KC bonus, and the GF happens to be the class that uses that armor. If another class could use that set, you would take it in a heartbeat.
They could put the KC bonus on a pet and people would take it instead, who doesn't want another 6k power? also into the fray is nice. 5% dmg buff (feated) run speed and ap gain?
seriously if they made a pet who cast into the fray on the party and buffed everyone's power by 60% then they could delete the GF class from the database and none would be the wiser.
That's a bug. I play for months and heard of it, yet never had the curiosity to ask for specifics. I doubt more than handful of people know about it.
Usual Ice Knife hit for 40-120K or so. 100K+ hits are quite rare, with Chilling Presence and debuffs/buffs.
If you know to reproduce the bug, just report it. As for me, since I just heard about it, never seen it happen, might as well be a myth.
it is not bug how much i know it is just buff debuffs stacking from 2-3+cw in team when they can buff and debuff for and each other as i said 220k+ ice knives is easy for cw it is just broken class in pve 2 x cw in team even means 47k+ crtics for me while with none it is 14-15k+
I think this is one of the most out of point threads. In every real life job/problem you would always pick a team with the right skills that they know when, where and how to maximize their effect, so I can’t understand why it should be different in this game. If you have five builders that can repair a broken bridge in five days why on earth should you cut of their hands, feet and lobotomize them so that they can match up with the other groups that don’t know how to even start repairing it? Especially when this group is not using any patented knowledge as everything can be found on class forums and the buffs/debuffs are not affected by gs in most of the cases.
If you are contracted to do X in exchange for money, you'll try to do it as fast and effectively as possible.
If you are playing a game for fun, and using skill to beat challenging content is what you deem to be fun, phoning it in with massively stacked buffs/debuffs might just remove a lot of that fun for you. And given all the effort involved in getting amazing gear, it's a lot more appealing to envisage facing harder content that tests that gear rather than deliberately degearing yourself so you can still have a challenge with existing content.
So there's that.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If you are contracted to do X in exchange for money, you'll try to do it as fast and effectively as possible.
If you are playing a game for fun, and using skill to beat challenging content is what you deem to be fun, phoning it in with massively stacked buffs/debuffs might just remove a lot of that fun for you. And given all the effort involved in getting amazing gear, it's a lot more appealing to envisage facing harder content that tests that gear rather than deliberately degearing yourself so you can still have a challenge with existing content.
So there's that.
Any harder content should offer better rewards. This is not the case here.
Basically, if I prove myself to be a good player, I want rewards that are suited to my skill level. If I get blue drops, or T1 in the last epic, then I completely lost respect for it. Add to this that there's a single legitimate AD farming dungeon... and I pretty much want to be done with PvE, get that AD, and not return for as long as possible. Yes, it's that bad.
Wow, that's not.....really even the issue here. But ok, I'd advise moving on in that case, because letting 'hugely overgeared peeps' become 'even more hugely overgeared' is not what the OP is suggesting the game needs, as far as I can tell.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Wow, that's not.....really even the issue here. But ok, I'd advise moving on in that case, because letting 'hugely overgeared peeps' become 'even more hugely overgeared' is not what the OP is suggesting the game needs, as far as I can tell.
The real issue at hand (for me) here is that I don't want to work any harder for the same AD reward - since gear in this game is easy to get, true work is for refining. That's about it.
I really don't care at this stage if I kill draco in 3 mins and run CN in 25. Even that is WAY too much for me, after seeing it 500+ times.
The rewards are dismal for the time investment in NWO. More than 6 months of almost daily farming, still not r10s. It would be depressing to see the farming made any harder than it is, given the rather poor quality of the content and rewards.
What kills the game is how LOL the PVE content is.
It has zero degree of challenging factor in it. The only thing the would make PVE content challenging is when u have bad teammate that can't even play PVE :P
And the Loot of the content? Absolute horrible in general. No offensive but if you are into PVE you really need to move on to a different game. NWN might be best as like a secondary game you play since it is still pretty nice for being F2P.
I'm honestly not sure why some of you are even playing at all, at this point.
Grinding content you're hopelessly bored of, to get loot that you complain about anyway because it's taking you too long to upgrade enchants that will simply allow you to grind content marginally faster? That's less game and more...stockholm syndrome.
If it's that painful, why are you still playing?
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm honestly not sure why some of you are even playing at all, at this point.
Grinding content you're hopelessly bored of, to get loot that you complain about anyway because it's taking you too long to upgrade enchants that will simply allow you to grind content marginally faster? That's less game and more...stockholm syndrome.
If it's that painful, why are you still playing?
There's also PvP.
PvE in this game is nothing but means to an end for those not willing to spend real cash.
However, if Cryptic decides to make uberhard quality content, such as raids, with hardcore difficulty setting, and ubercool loot that DROPS from bosses (not that I need to grind AD for months to get it), I'd be more than happy.
But as things are now, I'm only interested in efficient, fast PvE runs, get my AD and be happy I'm done with it.
PvE in this game is nothing but means to an end for those not willing to spend real cash.
Hahahah srsly? When you look at neverwinter, in its current state, with the update history it has, you think "YUPZ, DAT'S A PVP GAME, YO."
The entire purpose of the game, as far as you're aware, is to do as little PvE as possible, just enough to make you competitive in roflstomping nublets in the same game mode, in the same two maps, over and over again?
Wow.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever. And then spamming LOL L2P NUB.
What kills the game is how LOL the PVE content is.
just a question... which game have PVE content which is good in your opinion?
i think in case of small scale dungeons, NWO is quite good, especially when considering it's F2P it could use some 10-man dungeons for a bit deeper strategy/coordination content, but without real tank a heal, i cant imagine standard raids as known from WOW if you are reffering to it...
You (this is a general "you") can see how "easy" this game is for many, many players by observing the calls for "lfg DF" in the Dread Ring area every 10 seconds for 24h per day.
If it is that easy (which the DR area is imo) why does the lfg channel is spammed "lf1m DF and gtg" when there is already a group of 4?
Maybe there are more people out there that want an easy game and a reward? Maybe you are a very, very small minority?
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
Now now, I have done a couple of dungeons with Persephone and she is a very good player. I think it's safe to say that she can beat any PVE content in the game. That is not warranted, morsitans.
Comments
Neither the rogue or gwf are under discussion, although my prognostics about the classes are wrong.
a well played rogue makes a dungeon alone. A destroyer need a very powerful gear + artefacts + potions complete healing to do the same job (and I'm not sure whether it will succeed) ... so do not give me "more tank".
and this is precisely the great problem of rogue, he excels in its ability to be "anti-social" ... but again, not the classes themselves are being discussed ... before this topic becomes a "trap ".
Thats really useful when you can go into epic dungeons only via queue. But you have right, it is OT.
What he is saying is that it isn't a problem for 99% of the folks playing the game. Maybe if you are in an uber guild with uber geared folks and can always put together super teams. The vast majority of folks don't have their boons yet and are getting their %$$s kicked in the dungeons. Making the content harder would be equivalent to not allowing new folks to sign up.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr11b
You are Spike. There is no problem being Spike, but your post made it appear that you did not believe in Johnny's. I will place money that Johnny is a dumb *** to you. People that dillute Spike with being Johnny or Timmy confuse you and make you question their intelligence.
seriously tho pve CWs are just as broken as pvp GWFs
Imo, hr, tr, and gf, are balanced. Cw, gwf, and in some ways dc, are overpowered and make the game unfun. By nerfing the unlimited target cap of say oppressive force to 10-15, it wouldn't harm newbies too much, would moderately affect teams in t2 dungeons, and greatly affect the super duper gamers who gather 50 mobs in one area and oppressive it all to death.
But you won't see any such changes because cryptic is lazy. Everybody roll a cw for pve, and a gwf for pvp, and everything will be balanced. 5 cw teams running amok, splitting in 2-3 groups bunnyhopping each other clearing rooms. 5 gwf teams having one gwf standing on each platform, with two gwf running between 1 and 2, 2 and 3, slowly bonking each others heads to death. Perfect balance.
Ok , a cw alone, relying on its internal mechanics can do all this damage ? I think No. Multiple cw can . And I already said why I think it wrong .
On the other hand , a mixed party, even if the cw can do "this damage" I do not particularly see a problem . Why other classes directly interfered with its own internal mechanics.
I'm just not in favor of encounters of the same class " if they annul " as I favor encounters of different classes that have a special interaction. In other words , make the rogue / gf can cause damage "single 3.5 m" while the gwf / ranger / cw cause "1.m aoe" .
Recalculate the damages in the proposed direction seems to me a sort of " reboot" . I think more beneficial than a reboot , you balance the partys in the sense that they , together , are able to reproduce the effect of " cw broken pve " and then launch versions of the same dungeon whose enemies are at lvl 100 or something . It is a new challenge for a party that need must be balanced .
yest it can, chill stacks are messed up
well, taking this detail, my opnion is still the same ... ahaha
That's a bug. I play for months and heard of it, yet never had the curiosity to ask for specifics. I doubt more than handful of people know about it.
Usual Ice Knife hit for 40-120K or so. 100K+ hits are quite rare, with Chilling Presence and debuffs/buffs.
If you know to reproduce the bug, just report it. As for me, since I just heard about it, never seen it happen, might as well be a myth.
i'll just enjoy my ice knives
No, you wouldn't take a GF. You just want the KC bonus, and the GF happens to be the class that uses that armor. If another class could use that set, you would take it in a heartbeat.
seriously if they made a pet who cast into the fray on the party and buffed everyone's power by 60% then they could delete the GF class from the database and none would be the wiser.
it is not bug how much i know it is just buff debuffs stacking from 2-3+cw in team when they can buff and debuff for and each other as i said 220k+ ice knives is easy for cw it is just broken class in pve 2 x cw in team even means 47k+ crtics for me while with none it is 14-15k+
Uh, uh, I am playing with the wrong wizards then...granted, I have seen moderate increases in my damage but certainly not a 3.5x.
The more I read, the more I realize how spot on the OP is. Keep up the good work
If you are contracted to do X in exchange for money, you'll try to do it as fast and effectively as possible.
If you are playing a game for fun, and using skill to beat challenging content is what you deem to be fun, phoning it in with massively stacked buffs/debuffs might just remove a lot of that fun for you. And given all the effort involved in getting amazing gear, it's a lot more appealing to envisage facing harder content that tests that gear rather than deliberately degearing yourself so you can still have a challenge with existing content.
So there's that.
Any harder content should offer better rewards. This is not the case here.
Basically, if I prove myself to be a good player, I want rewards that are suited to my skill level. If I get blue drops, or T1 in the last epic, then I completely lost respect for it. Add to this that there's a single legitimate AD farming dungeon... and I pretty much want to be done with PvE, get that AD, and not return for as long as possible. Yes, it's that bad.
The real issue at hand (for me) here is that I don't want to work any harder for the same AD reward - since gear in this game is easy to get, true work is for refining. That's about it.
I really don't care at this stage if I kill draco in 3 mins and run CN in 25. Even that is WAY too much for me, after seeing it 500+ times.
The rewards are dismal for the time investment in NWO. More than 6 months of almost daily farming, still not r10s. It would be depressing to see the farming made any harder than it is, given the rather poor quality of the content and rewards.
Simple as that.
It has zero degree of challenging factor in it. The only thing the would make PVE content challenging is when u have bad teammate that can't even play PVE :P
And the Loot of the content? Absolute horrible in general. No offensive but if you are into PVE you really need to move on to a different game. NWN might be best as like a secondary game you play since it is still pretty nice for being F2P.
Grinding content you're hopelessly bored of, to get loot that you complain about anyway because it's taking you too long to upgrade enchants that will simply allow you to grind content marginally faster? That's less game and more...stockholm syndrome.
If it's that painful, why are you still playing?
There's also PvP.
PvE in this game is nothing but means to an end for those not willing to spend real cash.
However, if Cryptic decides to make uberhard quality content, such as raids, with hardcore difficulty setting, and ubercool loot that DROPS from bosses (not that I need to grind AD for months to get it), I'd be more than happy.
But as things are now, I'm only interested in efficient, fast PvE runs, get my AD and be happy I'm done with it.
Hahahah srsly? When you look at neverwinter, in its current state, with the update history it has, you think "YUPZ, DAT'S A PVP GAME, YO."
The entire purpose of the game, as far as you're aware, is to do as little PvE as possible, just enough to make you competitive in roflstomping nublets in the same game mode, in the same two maps, over and over again?
Wow.
just a question... which game have PVE content which is good in your opinion?
i think in case of small scale dungeons, NWO is quite good, especially when considering it's F2P
If it is that easy (which the DR area is imo) why does the lfg channel is spammed "lf1m DF and gtg" when there is already a group of 4?
Maybe there are more people out there that want an easy game and a reward? Maybe you are a very, very small minority?