CW's in PVP seem way OP!

ripyourlipsoff

I mean sure they can die if picked on with a TR / GWF but you combine them with a team with another CW your dead! There is no diminishing returns on the spells you are just killed in seconds.

I see everyone just Rolling CWS as the can do what everyone else can better!

helpimblindinrl

You almost could not be more wrong, you could claim the world is flat I guess and be more wrong.

tickdoff

CWs are prey in PvP. I love playing my CW, but I do die a lot. I also get a lot of kills, so it balances out. In some random PUGs I feel like a god, especially if the other team is dumb enough to leave me alone, but if a smart TR or GWF decides to focus on me then the damage I can do will be greatly reduced (it is hard to do damage when I am constantly teleporting away from attacks and generally running like a scared little girl).

In "organized" Pre-mades the CW is often a priority target, which limits their usefulness. They are still powerful, but most CWs simply do not have the defenses to last long.

tickdoff

helpimblindinrl wrote: »

You almost could not be more wrong, you could claim the world is flat I guess and be more wrong.

Actually, if the OP is primarily playing in PUGs, then the CW can seem to be an unstoppable force. The key word there is "seem". Just focus the CW down with a TR (especially a perma-stealth) or a beastly GWF. On my CW I can deal with most TRs, but it does take some effort, and the better geared they are the more difficult it is. For some perma stealth TRs I even need to switch out my usual power set up, which puts me at a disadvantage against all the other people I may need to deal with, so if the TR forces me to do this then he has already won, even if I get a few kills on him.

ripyourlipsoff

You're prey because you're the most dangerous class! I mean imagine 4 CW's and a Cleric. Just pure ownage...

ripyourlipsoff

So other classes die to everything, but the CW really only dies to 2 classes TR/ GWF and you see this as balanced? I have to roll a specific class to kill a CW?

tickdoff wrote: »

Actually, if the OP is primarily playing in PUGs, then the CW can seem to be an unstoppable force. The key word there is "seem". Just focus the CW down with a TR (especially a perma-stealth) or a beastly GWF. On my CW I can deal with most TRs, but it does take some effort, and the better geared they are the more difficult it is. For some perma stealth TRs I even need to switch out my usual power set up, which puts me at a disadvantage against all the other people I may need to deal with, so if the TR forces me to do this then he has already won, even if I get a few kills on him.

stoxforum1

ripyourlipsoff wrote: »

So other classes die to everything, but the CW really only dies to 2 classes TR/ GWF and you see this as balanced? I have to roll a specific class to kill a CW?

What does a GWF die to? No one
What does a TR die to? A GWF and maybe a really good HR
What does a HR die to? A good TR (but not likely), a GWF, maybe a CW (again not likely)
What does a CW die to? Everything. Okay maybe not a GF (although I know a few who will one shot a CW lol) or DC but still...

nwnghost

stoxforum1 wrote: »

What does a GWF die to? No one
What does a TR die to? A GWF and maybe a really good HR
What does a HR die to? A good TR (but not likely), a GWF, maybe a CW (again not likely)
What does a CW die to? Everything. Okay maybe not a GF (although I know a few who will one shot a CW lol) or DC but still...

I think that's a misconception based on the assumption that every GWF is sentinel (as well as IV) and every CW is Thaumaturge/Renegade

Non IV Sentinel GWFs in PvP fare horribly against most classes (except maybe HR/GF/DC) and Oppressor CWs will generally only die to another CW, a perma TR or a Sentinel IV GWF.

ripyourlipsoff

nwnghost wrote: »

I think that's a misconception based on the assumption that every GWF is sentinel (as well as IV) and every CW is Thaumaturge/Renegade

Non IV Sentinel GWFs in PvP fare horribly against most classes (except maybe HR/GF/DC) and Oppressor CWs will generally only die to another CW, a perma TR or a Sentinel IV GWF.

Exactly, it would take an absolute perfect scenario for a class to kill a CW, yet CW's can and do kill everyone else without needing a perfect scenario.

Add in the fact that each CW can use the same CC on the same target back n forth from range and you have GOD LIKE control!

stoxforum1

nwnghost wrote: »

I think that's a misconception based on the assumption that every GWF is sentinel (as well as IV) and every CW is Thaumaturge/Renegade

Non IV Sentinel GWFs in PvP fare horribly against most classes (except maybe HR/GF/DC) and Oppressor CWs will generally only die to another CW, a perma TR or a Sentinel IV GWF.

I only look at it from a top end perspective. This is the way it works when characters are built for PVP. If you're built for PVE then hell my PVP DC will kill you...

twstdecho

ripyourlipsoff wrote: »

Exactly, it would take an absolute perfect scenario for a class to kill a CW, yet CW's can and do kill everyone else without needing a perfect scenario.

Add in the fact that each CW can use the same CC on the same target back n forth from range and you have GOD LIKE control!

You mean like GWF's and GF's locking people down via CC or multiple HR's and their grasping roots?

nwnghost

At the top end perspective, I would still say that a CW would generally beat a HR unless the HR is able to attack unharassed (i.e. CW being kept busy by GWF/TR/GF)

Combat heavy HR would be relatively weak against Oppressors, would be a bit tougher against Renegade, but generally the CW would come out on top in a 1v1 scenario.

ripyourlipsoff

stoxforum1 wrote: »

I only look at it from a top end perspective. This is the way it works when characters are built for PVP. If you're built for PVE then hell my PVP DC will kill you...

We are talking about pvp from start to end CWs are very very powerful! Not everyone will have BIS gear. Mind you if they did the CW would probably still kill them.

gankdalf

Endgame premades (rainbow) are the only ones that counts and a CW is not OP in that scenario.

jaotut

I don't think CWs are OP at all in tough premades. All classes will have their pros and cons, but for survivability wise, I think CWs are the worst.

There's a reason why they're focused by other other team first, even before taking out a DC, coz they can be taken down the easiest. You usually want to eliminate their weakest link so there's more of you to cap for points.

pers3phone

Well OP, I seen many strange posts, but this is one of the most strange. Only a person that has no idea at all how PvP goes in Neverwinter would claim such enormities, that CWs are OP in PvP. Almost impossible to take you seriously.

jaotut

Yeah when I saw the title of this thread, I was sure it was trolling.

vortix44

ripyourlipsoff wrote: »

I mean sure they can die if picked on with a TR / GWF but you combine them with a team with another CW your dead! There is no diminishing returns on the spells you are just killed in seconds.

I see everyone just Rolling CWS as the can do what everyone else can better!

I read there was a 1v1 pvp contest organized and the two finalists were CWs so this must be true. Or must have been true.

pointsman

Yes, CWs are OP in PVP. Which is why, in any given match, you will typically find 3-4 CWs per team, right?

Oh no, wait, what you find instead are 3-4 TRs/GWFs per team.

Yes, a CW *can* be OP in PVP, *if* you choose high health/high regen gear for PVP (meaning your attack stats suffer), and *if* you have a Perfect Vorpal, and *if* you choose Oppressor tree with high control (and therefore low damage). Only then can this CW stand a chance of beating a merely above-average geared GWF.

spicen

I think op confused PvP with PvE. On a more serious note, cw is far from being overpowered in pvp. And currently the most powerful classes in 1v1 situations are imo: GWF(iv sent)>HR(tanky combat)>TR(perma executioner)>CW and GF tied and last but not least DC(tanky pvp-spec) which can stalemate any of the other classes with abit of luck, I think trs are easiest for dcs to deal with since they have so little CC and perma isn't actually the most bursty type of spec. (Might be biased abit since I only have experience on TR at high end pvp.)

pointsman

No, DC > CW. DC can get just as tanky as CW, perhaps tankier, however DC heals but CW does not.

charononus

All but the best CW's are just a source of kills to feed points. The can snipe people well, and a few can troll a gwf but trolling takes a very specific setup that won't actually be able to kill them. (Man it works though, gets me tunnel visioned everytime with trying to kill them)

trippysmurf1

It's random threads like this that devs take serious. Incoming CW PVP nerfs!

angrymanagement

Judging from the OPs forum postings he is a level 40 GF.....probably a little early in the levels and gear grind to be judging class balance. He wouldn't have his full arsenal at that level & would likely be food for a good CW (especially an alt char running epic weapons & enchants).

charononus

I will say this, cw skills could use a 50% damage nerf on aoe powers so that stacking them is no longer the quickest way to get thru the dungeon. Leave the single target powers alone to not make them any weaker in pvp.

uurbs

charononus wrote: »

I will say this, cw skills could use a 50% damage nerf on aoe powers so that stacking them is no longer the quickest way to get thru the dungeon. [...]

And what do you think should we gain from that? The GWF already does more AoE damage as a CW.

almireldignor

What they should do is reduce the target cap, say 10 targets cap instead of 5, and give diminishing returns to our damage like some gwf skills have. That way we can do more CONTROL, and less people complain about "CW op in pve QQ plz nerf"

kharny

Anyone can beat a CW in PvP where as CW has a lot of trouble beating most other classes.

think of it like rock paper scissors, only CW is wet paper and GWF is rock

GWF > everything > CW.

and no, CW does not beat GWF. Ever.

charononus

uurbs wrote: »

And what do you think should we gain from that? The GWF already does more AoE damage as a CW.

You should gain nothing. CW's are too OP in pve. The best way to run a dungeon is always to stack cw's with maybe a dc or gwf. CW's need a major damage nerf for pve balance. Control nerfing would just make people want to stack them more but a damage nerf would mean that it'd be better to include other classes as the fastest way to get thru content.

uurbs

charononus wrote: »

You should gain nothing.

If there is no gain at all, why change at all? I explicitly wasn't asking about your or my gain, I wrote "we", which meant the whole player base.

charononus wrote: »

CW's are too OP in pve. The best way to run a dungeon is always to stack cw's with maybe a dc or gwf.

Nope, IMHO 1x DC, 2-3 GWF's and 1-2 CW's are the best (in regards to speed) way to run a dungeon (because if you take more than 2 CW's the loss of damage compared to the gain of control is not helping to clear stuff faster). The only reason you still have CW's in a group is, because they can do damage and control.

charononus

uurbs wrote: »

If there is no gain at all, why change at all? I explicitly wasn't asking about your or my gain, I wrote "we", which meant the whole player base.

Nope, IMHO 1x DC, 2-3 GWF's and 1-2 CW's are the best (in regards to speed) way to run a dungeon (because if you take more than 2 CW's the loss of damage compared to the gain of control is not helping to clear stuff faster). The only reason you still have CW's in a group is, because they can do damage and control.

I assumed your we was CW's. The game gains a more balanced approach for pve. Also if your gwf's are beating your cw's you either only play with the top gwfs in the game or play with pathetic cw's. My experience is that cw's that spec to to damage still lay out tons of control and beat most equally geared gwfs. Even if gwfs had a slight edge it means that the fastest no risk way to play is to stack cw's. That has to end. I would put money on that balance has driven more people off of this game than any other problem or exploit in the game.