Any NOT stealth based PvP builds?

vasdamas

Hello there,

After playing PvP for a quite a while with my skulker set and some stealth feats I realized that it's kind of boring...even against some skilled players. You just run through, use ITC when Shadow strike is on CD and bomb enemies with impact shots...not much of the skill required and I get sleepy too soon to be honest.
Plus I don't like being copy cat and would like to see something that is actually NEW to me.

At the moment I run full dps build(no stealth feats at all) and use Deft strike(YES, no ITC even though I am infiltrator) + Smoke bomb + dazing strike encounters with duelist at-will to disable/kill enemy dps or healer fast but it doesn't always work as planned :P Especially if a GWF or GF notices me.

So...any other not casual builds that might work well in PvP?


Thanks in advance

P.S And no, I am not that kind of people that are usually running around in PvP and saying that permastealth is for weak noobs. It's the part of game mechanics and it would be actually NOOBISH not to use something devs gave to rogues.

midnightfang93

If you don't want to rely majorly on stealth then you just need to invest in deflect/hp/defense/regen gear and then try to tank it out until one of you drop.

spicen

Come across to any decent player and you're toast with even 50% deflect and 30k hp if you're not utilising stealth. How I know this? Because, I have myself a very stealthy build on my tr, 32k hp, +1600 regen(near 2k with rampaging madness proc) 24% dr and 20% deflect. I still get killed pretty fast if decent gwf or gf gets their prone combo going on me, and some cw's can chug out 60-80% of my hp with just single icy rays if don't have itc up. Many players think stealth is best used offensively but infact its one of the best defensive utilities in this game being almost on par with unstoppable.

godlysoul2

Stealth build is the best hands down and it doesn't look like that is going to change. It may be viable from what ive heard/seen to go a high deflect build with stacking tanking stats once the next pvp updates come out, but even then you are going to be very vulnerable in any situation that isn't an even fight (ex: 1v2). Stealth builds will always work better in those situations. Even impact shot is getting nerfed too, which was a big damage dealer/resource (stun lock) for non stealth builds. If you are looking for a straightforward damage dealing class I'd try GWF/HR/GF because it looks like stealth builds are really only going to be the viable options now and in the future.

beckylunatic

Two options from highly competitive rogues who don't use stealth builds

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?510921-High-Deflect-Character-sheet-amp-Vid-inside
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?568161-Hyenas-PvP-TR-Guide

vasdamas

@godlysoul2 thanks but I hate playing GWFs with an ability to deal a ton of damage and eat the same ammount. And rangers never been a class of mine in DnD also...

@beckylunatic tried first build not long time ago, it seems like it works best with halflings :P
2nd is basically almost the same I have now with only one difference - I don't use skulker set.

Well, thanks guys. I guess I won't be playing PvP after they implement that ELO system anyway...

godlysoul1

There is a way you could run a high deflect/defense build and then just make your rotation involve switching between smoke bomb and shadow strike. Then if you use smoke bomb from stealth the slow gives you opportunities to deal out nice damage. I know a guy that does this with dazing strike, smoke bomb, and shadow strike. That is probably a good build if you want to be effective, but not invincible or too weak. You have the potential to get them in a rotation of stuns/stealth when they dont have a CC breaker, but you are also slightly more vulnerable if you are doing 2v1 against with one of the targets not hittable with smoke bomb. This build will leave you exposed more so that if you are 2v1 it will be harder, but you could at least keep one stunned, and for 1v1 it gives opponents the opportunity to use a CC breaker to counter you, so that its not an unbeatable build. Also, with dazing strike if they do break CC, it still tends to do a short interrupt of their skills while they are immune, so that you are not completely vulnerable if someone does use a CC breaker on you.

This build may require some recovery/int though as well as perhaps a little bit of stealth duration feats like 3/5? but it may not, it would just depend on what cooldowns are like once you get into using it.

Also as a side note, back to the ELO system, he said after talking with a dev they will NOT be making ranking visible initially. Possibly not ever, but definitely not initially. So that is not something to worry about :P

f2pnw

beckylunatic wrote: »

Two options from highly competitive rogues who don't use stealth builds

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?510921-High-Deflect-Character-sheet-amp-Vid-inside
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?568161-Hyenas-PvP-TR-Guide

they use the stealth build to,tell me whats the point having pbile,vorp and good gear when u get ownen by skulker no enchants tr.....
and smoke bomb is the worst encounter ever for tr can be countered instant with itc.
there was some build wit deft impact combo

kweassa

So...any other not casual builds that might work well in PvP?

All builds work in PvP (at least, up to an enjoyable point) so long as you work for it.

The current majority, high-INT/ITC/ImpactShot/knife-throwing build simply makes many TRs lazy and easy-mode, so once you stop using those (especially ITC), then it becomes less of the 'build' itself but more about situational awareness; like, how fast can you take someone down without spamming IS, and actually by using melee attacks? What is your strategy to close distance and stick to the enmey? What are the chances a stray enemy CW or HR is going to pass by and land you a CC? What can you do to avoid that? How can you escape it (or rather, survive it) without just simply popping a push of a button to go into ITC?

Hence, I'd suggest you first start by removing ITC and IS from your power tray, and start experimenting with what are encounter combinations you can use. Its going to suck, and the results would be terrible in the first few days. But I'd urge you to endure it, and try find new possibilities. You're bound to be surprised to find out what some of those other possible power combinations may accomplish -- if you are persistent enough.


Getting off the INT/ITC/Stealth-knife throwing build, is like quitting drugs or quitting smoking. Good luck!

godlysoul1

kweassa wrote: »

All builds work in PvP (at least, up to an enjoyable point) so long as you work for it.

The current majority, high-INT/ITC/ImpactShot/knife-throwing build simply makes many TRs lazy and easy-mode, so once you stop using those (especially ITC), then it becomes less of the 'build' itself but more about situational awareness; like, how fast can you take someone down without spamming IS, and actually by using melee attacks? What is your strategy to close distance and stick to the enmey? What are the chances a stray enemy CW or HR is going to pass by and land you a CC? What can you do to avoid that? How can you escape it (or rather, survive it) without just simply popping a push of a button to go into ITC?

Hence, I'd suggest you first start by removing ITC and IS from your power tray, and start experimenting with what are encounter combinations you can use. Its going to suck, and the results would be terrible in the first few days. But I'd urge you to endure it, and try find new possibilities. You're bound to be surprised to find out what some of those other possible power combinations may accomplish -- if you are persistent enough.


Getting off the INT/ITC/Stealth-knife throwing build, is like quitting drugs or quitting smoking. Good luck!

I tried recently... Good old WK vengeance -> dazing with shadow strike combo, but the addiction was too strong The other builds are just way too fragile. Part of this is because vengeance doesn't break CC like its supposed to. I'd probably go back to my GWF now or next mod instead of find a way to make rogue work if the ITC/SS got nerfed too bad

spicen

kweassa wrote: »

All builds work in PvP (at least, up to an enjoyable point) so long as you work for it.

The current majority, high-INT/ITC/ImpactShot/knife-throwing build simply makes many TRs lazy and easy-mode, so once you stop using those (especially ITC), then it becomes less of the 'build' itself but more about situational awareness; like, how fast can you take someone down without spamming IS, and actually by using melee attacks? What is your strategy to close distance and stick to the enmey? What are the chances a stray enemy CW or HR is going to pass by and land you a CC? What can you do to avoid that? How can you escape it (or rather, survive it) without just simply popping a push of a button to go into ITC?

Hence, I'd suggest you first start by removing ITC and IS from your power tray, and start experimenting with what are encounter combinations you can use. Its going to suck, and the results would be terrible in the first few days. But I'd urge you to endure it, and try find new possibilities. You're bound to be surprised to find out what some of those other possible power combinations may accomplish -- if you are persistent enough.


Getting off the INT/ITC/Stealth-knife throwing build, is like quitting drugs or quitting smoking. Good luck!

You still have no clue don't you? The most dangerous rogues who use this build deal most of their damage with Duelists Flurry and Bilethorn weapon enchant. I rarely even use impact anymore, mostly on the enemies who are running to finish them off or just some tactical stuns here and there, most of my damage comes from at-wills. I usually start with duelists and then depending on the class I'm attacking I either keep using DF or chug daggers if the enemy tries to get space or if I need space. The secret of this build is not to deal huge dmg but to hold maybe even +3 enemies at 1 node while staying alive and slowly dealing dmg to them. After senti GWF this is the second best build for defending/holding nodes, maybe tanky DC comes as third but haven't seen any truly tanky DCs for a while. There are quite many varieties of stealthy builds not all of those have high INT and some do much better burst.
EDIT: You mentioned that majority uses high INT-builds, you're far off with this. Only competetive rogues(by competetive I mean they do premades) are using the forementioned spec. Many folks who pug use basic pve builds and just adjust their encounter setup for pvp. You can still be pretty stealthy even if you don't have high INT with just spending 5 points in Improved Cunning Sneak-heroic feat and using battlefield skulkers set.

zokir

f2pnw wrote: »

they use the stealth build to,tell me whats the point having pbile,vorp and good gear when u get ownen by skulker no enchants tr.....
and smoke bomb is the worst encounter ever for tr can be countered instant with itc.
there was some build wit deft impact combo

Wrong.

I have a hybrid build listed on the forums if you're interested in giving that a look.
It combines high damage with high survivability.
The main stats I focus on are ArPen, Regen, and HP. Lifesteal and Recovery are secondary focuses, and of course power and crit have their solid values.
You can see all my gear and stats as well as a small look at my playstyle on my thread.

kweassa

spicen wrote: »

You still have no clue don't you? The most dangerous rogues who use this build deal most of their damage with Duelists Flurry and Bilethorn weapon enchant. I rarely even use impact anymore, mostly on the enemies who are running to finish them off or just some tactical stuns here and there, most of my damage comes from at-wills. I usually start with duelists and then depending on the class I'm attacking I either keep using DF or chug daggers if the enemy tries to get space or if I need space.

Only stating what I've observed, mate. There's a difference between the "top-level", and then all the rest, normal level of TR players out there. For most, IS is a given tool that is rarely out of the power selection, and just simply lobbing/spamming it at a given moment is so simple, and yet effective. I fully understand why the higher level of TRs would rely on DF, since it adds an extra moment of relief with its immunity duration -- especially when you are caught off-guard and forced out of stealth, and have to wait some extra seconds until ITC returns.

The secret of this build is not to deal huge dmg but to hold maybe even +3 enemies at 1 node while staying alive and slowly dealing dmg to them. After senti GWF this is the second best build for defending/holding nodes, maybe tanky DC comes as third but haven't seen any truly tanky DCs for a while. There are quite many varieties of stealthy builds not all of those have high INT and some do much better burst.

No doubt. An objective-driven TR would naturally be more concerned with holding nodes and forcing multiple enemies upon him. But quite frequently, since having one of these TRs is usually enough to just baffle any average-level PuG and leave them totally hopeless, in many cases they simply walk out to get more kills, since usually the team's already winning by a huge score. In almost all of these cases, its Impact Shot that is the preferred choice of roflstomping people. At least according to my experience.

EDIT: You mentioned that majority uses high INT-builds, you're far off with this. Only competetive rogues(by competetive I mean they do premades) are using the forementioned spec. Many folks who pug use basic pve builds and just adjust their encounter setup for pvp. You can still be pretty stealthy even if you don't have high INT with just spending 5 points in Improved Cunning Sneak-heroic feat and using battlefield skulkers set.

Be that as it may, in the end, ultimately, the majority of TR players who are interested in PvP, in the end, use some form of the build in various minor-variations. If not the build itself, the basic tactic is already widespread and hailed as a 'manual' to most.

f2pnw

zokir wrote: »

Wrong.

I have a hybrid build listed on the forums if you're interested in giving that a look.
It combines high damage with high survivability.
The main stats I focus on are ArPen, Regen, and HP. Lifesteal and Recovery are secondary focuses, and of course power and crit have their solid values.
You can see all my gear and stats as well as a small look at my playstyle on my thread.

k np i didnt even look i just checked the first one was from munkey. i have no idea what he posted but i saw him 1v1 blacksheep and thats pure stealth cheese build same as i use.
and im not interested in any other build coz it dont work simple as that.
we can do 1v1 any time i be glad to show you.everyone knows if u dont have 5 points in improved cunning thats prety much it

skylher12

i dont do the perma stealth thing nor use smoke bomb, or df, and do just fine in pvp... of course i do a lot of opposite things these forums say to do and always seem to come out ahead. i have beaten very good gwf, though steamroller pretty much one hits me LOL. like others say i am pretty much keeping a few people occupied while my team takes two points, I doubt i will ever be the best pvp rogue out there, but i hold my own and have fun so that is all i care about. its just a matter of time before the perma stealth rogue gets hit with the nerf bat, so people are going to have to figure out how to pvp without stealth at some point.

sasoras

skylher12 wrote: »

i dont do the perma stealth thing nor use smoke bomb, or df, and do just fine in pvp... of course i do a lot of opposite things these forums say to do and always seem to come out ahead. i have beaten very good gwf, though steamroller pretty much one hits me LOL. like others say i am pretty much keeping a few people occupied while my team takes two points, I doubt i will ever be the best pvp rogue out there, but i hold my own and have fun so that is all i care about. its just a matter of time before the perma stealth rogue gets hit with the nerf bat, so people are going to have to figure out how to pvp without stealth at some point.

doubt it, i met a lot of people who could knock me form stealth and zero in on me while i am in stealth(and it not like im standing still either), i highly doubt they actually get the bat.

kweassa

sasoras wrote: »

doubt it, i met a lot of people who could knock me form stealth and zero in on me while i am in stealth(and it not like im standing still either), i highly doubt they actually get the bat.

My opinion is, the batter is already up. The nerf to IS was the first swing.

zokir

f2pnw wrote: »

k np i didnt even look i just checked the first one was from munkey. i have no idea what he posted but i saw him 1v1 blacksheep and thats pure stealth cheese build same as i use.
and im not interested in any other build coz it dont work simple as that.
we can do 1v1 any time i be glad to show you.everyone knows if u dont have 5 points in improved cunning thats prety much it

If you didn't even look at it- don't bother to say anything about it.

Also, improved cunning sneak only gives you 1 extra second of stealth. That will not make or break a fight.

f2pnw

zokir wrote: »

If you didn't even look at it- don't bother to say anything about it.

Also, improved cunning sneak only gives you 1 extra second of stealth. That will not make or break a fight.

1 sec can make and break a fight similar gear oponents.you are out one sec early you get the first impact from stealth.
and im sure u use shadow and itc with impact or pob with recovery to.and that is a stealth base build.
like i said you use just not maxed out.