I guess the point becomes then, what IS the point... If you dont have any elo rating showing, and you dont have any purpose to winning games... It becomes dull especially with no new maps/gametypes etc.
I am really excited for all the changes, especially tenacity and new gear sets! Dont get me wrong, and ALSO very excited about what Mod 3 can bring and I LOVE the DEVs are actually playing pvp with us, but at the end of the day games are always a "carrot on a stick" mentality.
Even single player games, the goal is to beat the game, thats the "carrot". In MMOs the "carrot" is often the gear chase, thats the PVE game and alot of times can be the PVP game as well.
Well, what is the "carrot" for PVP with no visable elo rating AND no gear chase? I think that is what is burning people out to be honest.
All the new stuff is AWESOME and its much needed and Im going to be hooked again once it hits live, im just really still betting it all on Mod 3. Without new maps/gametypes and the "carrot", I just dont see whats going to keep people.
Ive seen it all and been playing since OB, Ive seen the rise and fall of all the best guilds and its always the same story. Players hit top "level" in pvp, do alot of premade versus premade, stream it all, are considered the "best" then get bored and leave...
I, for one, would love something that is a driver to stay... I think new maps/gametypes will be a HUGE "carrot" in that people will want to play those over and over to get goo,d itll bring life back the the game, even foundry pvp would be HUGE!
But without a true "ranking system" or some type of "gear chase" there isnt much of a lasting factor.
Again, I dont wanna take away from the fact I am STOKED! To play with these new changes.
Curse, I think we haven't seen the "Carrot" yet. I don't believe we'll be able to get T2.5 PVP gear with Glory. I truly think that will simply be for testing purposes.
These are my speculations (mind you, speculations)...
1) Some new PVP gear will be available for Glory.
2) The T2 GG set (adjusted with Tenacity) with be available for GG coins.
3) I think the new T2.5 gear will be a new type of currency or "Glory" we haven't yet seen.
4) I also think we're getting more maps and modes.
That being said, those are my speculations. We'll see what the preview shard brings. Considering no release date has been given for Mod 3, I think the Devs have a lot more up their sleeves than the same two maps with some different gear.
Personally I imagined them doing something of a combination of glory/GG coins to purchase the new PvP gear, but who knows. I'm pretty sure as well prices/currency for it will most likely be changed on release.
Curse, I think we haven't seen the "Carrot" yet. I don't believe we'll be able to get T2.5 PVP gear with Glory. I truly think that will simply be for testing purposes.
These are my speculations (mind you, speculations)...
1) Some new PVP gear will be available for Glory.
2) The T2 GG set (adjusted with Tenacity) with be available for GG coins.
3) I think the new T2.5 gear will be a new type of currency or "Glory" we haven't yet seen.
4) I also think we're getting more maps and modes.
That being said, those are my speculations. We'll see what the preview shard brings. Considering no release date has been given for Mod 3, I think the Devs have a lot more up their sleeves than the same two maps with some different gear.
I dont mind not being able to get the new gear with glory, although honestly Id rather just have each piece cost 20k+ glory and call it good.
I know they will split it all into a few gear sets with different stats - looking forward to this! I really hesitate when they make new gear for GG coins as currently it can be very frustrating to farm that. You need to be on at certain times of the day to get coins, and then it becomes a game of , log in, see when GG is, if its not now or soon, log off for the night.
If the new gear is going to include GG coins, id REALLY hope they make the GG pvp available 100% of the time for coins, only the first state and third would be during the set time and ofcourse, you have to GG pvp during the 30 minute event as well...
I wouldnt mind new currency either for it TBH...
I would like to point out that ALL of these changes are NOT listed as Mod 3 implementations, the patch notes for these are listed a "Shadowmantle PvP Preview Patch Notes" so this implies itll be out before Mod 3.
I fully suspect Mod 3 to have more gametypes and maps, seeing as how they are clearly putting good thought into this gear and matchmaking.
I would love for all this stuff to come out in the next few weeks as they announce Mod 3 and start putting Mod 3 on the PTR for some nice testing.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2014
What it is clear IMO is the need to offer top PvPers special, unique rewards, such as titles, mounts, and even (PvP) gear. It's the only way to officially stimulate competition besides ladders. The more of this stuff makes it into the game, the closer the game is to becoming an esport, which I think it should become.
So... gear for ratings? Yeah, why not, but the gear should be great in PvP only, not also in PvE, or we might as well switch focus completely towards PvP lol.
0
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
or we might as well switch focus completely towards PvP lol.
this game has come out with exactly 2 new group dungeons since it launched, both of which were beaten within hours by the playerbase, and both of which are farmed with trivial ease now.
it boggles my mind why anyone would spec for PvE. to farm 1 dungeon every 6 months?
until they really ramp up the group based dungeoning in this game, we really might as well focus completely on pvp.
What it is clear IMO is the need to offer top PvPers special, unique rewards, such as titles, mounts, and even (PvP) gear. It's the only way to officially stimulate competition besides ladders. The more of this stuff makes it into the game, the closer the game is to becoming an esport, which I think it should become.
So... gear for ratings? Yeah, why not, but the gear should be great in PvP only, not also in PvE, or we might as well switch focus completely towards PvP lol.
I mean I would even be for changing the "daily win" quest into a new "currency" system.
So LIKE dread campaign, you get the scrolls and what not, you get 1 per day for beating the daily dungeon. This quest could offer a new PVP currency that is used WITH glory to buy gear.
Gloves could be 4 coins + 8k glory etc...
Chest = 6 coins plus 10j glory etc...
So this way it takes multiple days AND glory farming to get the gear and you have to atleast WIN one game a day to get the coin... Just an idea.
0
josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
edited January 2014
My preference: remove the Glory cap and vastly increase the glory cost for items. Leave items in glory shop, but also allow to purchase with coins as alternative to domination.
Iyon the Dark
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
it boggles my mind why anyone would spec for PvE. to farm 1 dungeon every 6 months?
I've run that one dungeon with full PvP spec, I didn't like it. If you're please doing less damage than every other CW (since you play with good ones), sure, run full PvP spec.
If you wanna perform decently, then you want a good PvE(-ish) spec.
The true answer to this problem is dual spec. There's no reason anybody should perform subpar in either PvE or PvP.
I don't think gear for ratings is a good idea, if it's intended as "if you are in the top 10, you get some special gear". For a simple reason. A ladder will be, obviously, determined also by the amount of time/ effort spent in the game. So, for example, a strong player who plays PvP 10 hours every day would stay on top easily. At the same time, an even stronger player that PvP only, let's say, 1 hour every day, would fall behind.
So far, gear and stuff could be obtained by anyone, regardless the time/ efforts spent into it. You run dungeons, you get stuff. A guy who runs dungeons 10 hours every day can get it faster, but the guy playing 1 hour a day can still get it.
Ladder based gear, to me, sounds like "who can PvP more, gets more".
It's already a poor choice, if you ask me, to limit GG gear to guild members only. You can't join GG unless you get a guild. Which means, you HAVE to stay in a guild, or you lose a part of the content and a gear set.
Everyone should have the chance to do everything and get everything, regardless of the amount of time spent, or being in a guild or not. Efforts and a guild backing you up should only grant you to get stuff faster.
So i'm strongly against special stuff for special nerds.
I think it would be better to put achievements in PvP, and have some PvP gear to get unlocked though achievements. For example, the "bloodthirsty" title is unlocked after you kill "X" enemies (do not remember how many i killed before i got it). The new offensive PvP set (do not remember the name) could be unlocked by a similar achievement. After you unlock it, you can buy it for glory (let's say, 10k glory the scale, 6k helm/ boots/ bracers, 10k the sword and 5k the knot).
Achievements could be as many as you want. You can also make gear to be unlocked by achieving multiple achievements, each related to the gear set's purpose. A defensive PvP set could be unlocked defending points, resurrecting team mates and so on.
But please, NO special gear for top players. It does not stimulate competition. It just makes ppl farm more PvP.
It could be done only if you can make a ladder that takes into account only your performance, regardless of the time spent/ number of matches/ glory gained. But again, how can you create a clear ranking/ ladder when there are so many things to take into account (if a match is a premade or a pug, if you are a DC, TR or CW, if you play 10 matches every day or 100 matches every day, and so on...).
Almost anything you take into account, is influenced, more or less, by the numer of matches you play.
If you make it through ratios, such as kills/ deaths ratio, or matches won/ lost ratio, you still miss a part of the picture. Those matches were pugs or premade? If i play one match, win it with a score of 40 kills- 0 deaths and lots of points, and then play no more, will i be the first in rankings forever?
Doing a reliable ranking is hard, so i would not link gear to rankings.
Comments
Curse, I think we haven't seen the "Carrot" yet. I don't believe we'll be able to get T2.5 PVP gear with Glory. I truly think that will simply be for testing purposes.
These are my speculations (mind you, speculations)...
1) Some new PVP gear will be available for Glory.
2) The T2 GG set (adjusted with Tenacity) with be available for GG coins.
3) I think the new T2.5 gear will be a new type of currency or "Glory" we haven't yet seen.
4) I also think we're getting more maps and modes.
That being said, those are my speculations. We'll see what the preview shard brings. Considering no release date has been given for Mod 3, I think the Devs have a lot more up their sleeves than the same two maps with some different gear.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
I dont mind not being able to get the new gear with glory, although honestly Id rather just have each piece cost 20k+ glory and call it good.
I know they will split it all into a few gear sets with different stats - looking forward to this! I really hesitate when they make new gear for GG coins as currently it can be very frustrating to farm that. You need to be on at certain times of the day to get coins, and then it becomes a game of , log in, see when GG is, if its not now or soon, log off for the night.
If the new gear is going to include GG coins, id REALLY hope they make the GG pvp available 100% of the time for coins, only the first state and third would be during the set time and ofcourse, you have to GG pvp during the 30 minute event as well...
I wouldnt mind new currency either for it TBH...
I would like to point out that ALL of these changes are NOT listed as Mod 3 implementations, the patch notes for these are listed a "Shadowmantle PvP Preview Patch Notes" so this implies itll be out before Mod 3.
I fully suspect Mod 3 to have more gametypes and maps, seeing as how they are clearly putting good thought into this gear and matchmaking.
I would love for all this stuff to come out in the next few weeks as they announce Mod 3 and start putting Mod 3 on the PTR for some nice testing.
So... gear for ratings? Yeah, why not, but the gear should be great in PvP only, not also in PvE, or we might as well switch focus completely towards PvP lol.
this game has come out with exactly 2 new group dungeons since it launched, both of which were beaten within hours by the playerbase, and both of which are farmed with trivial ease now.
it boggles my mind why anyone would spec for PvE. to farm 1 dungeon every 6 months?
until they really ramp up the group based dungeoning in this game, we really might as well focus completely on pvp.
I mean I would even be for changing the "daily win" quest into a new "currency" system.
So LIKE dread campaign, you get the scrolls and what not, you get 1 per day for beating the daily dungeon. This quest could offer a new PVP currency that is used WITH glory to buy gear.
Gloves could be 4 coins + 8k glory etc...
Chest = 6 coins plus 10j glory etc...
So this way it takes multiple days AND glory farming to get the gear and you have to atleast WIN one game a day to get the coin... Just an idea.
Iyon the Dark
I've run that one dungeon with full PvP spec, I didn't like it. If you're please doing less damage than every other CW (since you play with good ones), sure, run full PvP spec.
If you wanna perform decently, then you want a good PvE(-ish) spec.
The true answer to this problem is dual spec. There's no reason anybody should perform subpar in either PvE or PvP.
So far, gear and stuff could be obtained by anyone, regardless the time/ efforts spent into it. You run dungeons, you get stuff. A guy who runs dungeons 10 hours every day can get it faster, but the guy playing 1 hour a day can still get it.
Ladder based gear, to me, sounds like "who can PvP more, gets more".
It's already a poor choice, if you ask me, to limit GG gear to guild members only. You can't join GG unless you get a guild. Which means, you HAVE to stay in a guild, or you lose a part of the content and a gear set.
Everyone should have the chance to do everything and get everything, regardless of the amount of time spent, or being in a guild or not. Efforts and a guild backing you up should only grant you to get stuff faster.
So i'm strongly against special stuff for special nerds.
I think it would be better to put achievements in PvP, and have some PvP gear to get unlocked though achievements. For example, the "bloodthirsty" title is unlocked after you kill "X" enemies (do not remember how many i killed before i got it). The new offensive PvP set (do not remember the name) could be unlocked by a similar achievement. After you unlock it, you can buy it for glory (let's say, 10k glory the scale, 6k helm/ boots/ bracers, 10k the sword and 5k the knot).
Achievements could be as many as you want. You can also make gear to be unlocked by achieving multiple achievements, each related to the gear set's purpose. A defensive PvP set could be unlocked defending points, resurrecting team mates and so on.
But please, NO special gear for top players. It does not stimulate competition. It just makes ppl farm more PvP.
It could be done only if you can make a ladder that takes into account only your performance, regardless of the time spent/ number of matches/ glory gained. But again, how can you create a clear ranking/ ladder when there are so many things to take into account (if a match is a premade or a pug, if you are a DC, TR or CW, if you play 10 matches every day or 100 matches every day, and so on...).
Almost anything you take into account, is influenced, more or less, by the numer of matches you play.
If you make it through ratios, such as kills/ deaths ratio, or matches won/ lost ratio, you still miss a part of the picture. Those matches were pugs or premade? If i play one match, win it with a score of 40 kills- 0 deaths and lots of points, and then play no more, will i be the first in rankings forever?
Doing a reliable ranking is hard, so i would not link gear to rankings.