Suggestion for a new type of dungeon design.

dndmasterdark

I think it would be a neat idea if Cryptic made a few dungeons that had not only monsters (yawn)... but dungeons that used hand / eye coordination and some common sense skills.
For example:
- Jumping areas where you have to jump onto levels of platforms to proceed through the dungeon, add things like swinging boulders on a rope to knock people off or giants bees that fly around you and attack you while you are trying to get across. Exploiters love to jump in crevices and up walls and such.. they would love this part. lol.
- Swinging on a multiple vines or ropes to get across a pit of fire.
- Jumping up on floating bubbles up to the top platform, make it so the bubbles pop if you dont land right.
- Running through a hallway with multiple timed traps that go off like spears out of the wall and acid streams or giant axes. Oh you gotta have giant swinging axes in D&D.
- Giant boulders that chase you through a shallow stream while frogs try to trip you with their tongues.

This could be added into pvp too.. say the team has to set up a diamond drill at a node and if it drills through the earth after a bit the players get AD, of course that is if it survives the onslaught of the enemy team.

Would be sooo fun. Anyone else have some neat ideas that could be added into a new type of obstacle course dungeon? Is this a good or bad idea?

Discuss?

chantola21

Good idea hope the administrators dont ignore another good idea like this one!

ladymythos

Good idea on paper, but "common sense" and "PUG" does not exactly go hand in hand. I'd love to see it in solo-instances, though.

arcmoon99

/+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Scratch the endless ocean of mobs in dungeons and add ideas like these. Instantly make dungeons so much more fun.

MY IDEA:

Make boss fights more interesting on the boss:

-Decrease the amount of adds significantly while increasing the bosses HP

-Not make the boss immune to CC 100% of the time. Instead give bosses high control resist and give them a CC timer to prevent them from being CC chained

-Make the boss fights more personal (I want to have a reason to kill this guy. I don't want to kill him just because "Sgt. Knox" told me to.) Give the bosses special dialogue. EX: The boss aggros on to a TR, he than says,"You think you can hide from me?". The boss aggros onto a DC, he than says, " You're not so pure." Doing things like this will make the boss fights come to life.

-Excluding the final boss, Switch up the boss from time to time. Maybe have a chance to spawn a completely different boss or, a different form of the boss.

dndmasterdark

- Glowing puzzle squares on the ground that blink slowly and if you do not follow that certain path you get squashed like a bug by a giant metal cube.

Would be some comedy relief too sometimes. Just need think of ways that they zen store gets a part of the action and increases some sales....so they implement it. ..IF they want too that is.

charononus

In theory it's a nice idea, I don't see it going well in practice though. Most games that have had something similar have had it be very very very unpopular content, or people find ways to brute force it.

eldarth

dndmasterdark wrote: »

I think it would be a neat idea if Cryptic made a few dungeons that had not only monsters (yawn)... but dungeons that used hand / eye coordination and some common sense skills.
For example:
- Jumping areas where you have to jump onto levels of platforms to proceed through the dungeon, add things like swinging boulders on a rope to knock people off or giants bees that fly around you and attack you while you are trying to get across. Exploiters love to jump in crevices and up walls and such.. they would love this part. lol.

There are lots of foundry "jumping" and puzzle quests already.
Try "May's Trick Jumping" (I think that's one of the favorites)
or search for tag "puzzle" and you should find a lot.

masterjewstar

arcmoon99 wrote: »

-Make the boss fights more personal (I want to have a reason to kill this guy. I don't want to kill him just because "Sgt. Knox" told me to.) Give the bosses special dialogue. EX: The boss aggros on to a TR, he than says,"You think you can hide from me?". The boss aggros onto a DC, he than says, " You're not so pure." Doing things like this will make the boss fights come to life.

I would love that, that would be pretty awesome if they commented when they aggro; (not every time because it would be obnoxious) but sometimes would be ok.

As for what my idea would be to make dungeons more fun would be. Ambush rooms- The entrance and exits all shut and a few traps activate and the room has like 20-30 mobs kinda like ambush events from Dynasty Warriors. You could add like a small mid-boss or something.

Obviously, it would limit those who just rush through dungeons and stuff so theres that problem but is it really that bad?

ianthewizard2012

At here one of the things which impress me is that, in another D&D mmo each raid often requires players to deal with puzzles, traps, etc in order to get to boss, and each boss fight also requires different strategy so players don't get bored; however at here all dungeon delves seem to be more or less the same: just kill your way to boss room, and then boss, adds, boss, adds, boss, adds ... That's quite impressive.

charononus

ianthewizard2012 wrote: »

At here one of the things which impress me is that, in another D&D mmo each raid requires different strategy so players don't got bored; however at here all dungeon delves seem to be more or less the same: boss, adds, boss, adds, boss, adds ... That's quite impressive.

It really isn't that way in the other game. The bosses have different moves, but every single raid and quest in that game is either a puzzle or a dps race with a very select few exceptions.

valwryn

Underwater Fighting!!! :eek:

Everyone moves slowly except the underwater creatures. Everyone would have to wear a special amulet to breathe underwater.;)

doomsday22k

These are just horrible ideas for neverwinter.

This type of dungeon gameplay is already in GW2 and its the main reason I don't play GW2.

chemboy613

lots of interesting ideas, but the jumping is more annoying than anything. No one likes it.

The trash mobs should be more varried and stronger, clears in places like CN or VT are not too long, but it's just a million adds.

Same with draco or other boss fights- too many adds. I want to find a more efficient way to do things than 3 CWs.

beckylunatic

I was thinking... there could be like random things scattered around that would do stuff if you stepped on them... like, maybe a mushroom could make you go really fast, or something.

mithrosnomore

I would be in favor of more puzzles, and wouldn't even mind some jumping games.

Not just for dungeons, but for solo instances, too.

Even if just as little side-things that only exist in/serve to open up extra areas to explore so people that weren't interested could skip them.

ordensmarschall

dndmasterdark wrote: »

- Jumping areas where you have to jump onto levels of platforms to proceed through the dungeon, add things like swinging boulders on a rope to knock people off or giants bees that fly around you and attack you while you are trying to get across.

I didn't like these types of games in the 1980s, I like them even less 30 years later.

- Swinging on a multiple vines or ropes to get across a pit of fire.

How trying something simpler first, like ladders and ropes you can climb up or down on.

- Jumping up on floating bubbles up to the top platform, make it so the bubbles pop if you don't land right.

I am not an Italian plumber named Mario

- Running through a hallway with multiple timed traps that go off like spears out of the wall and acid streams or giant axes. Oh you gotta have giant swinging axes in D&D.

How about making traps that actually need to be disarmed because if you don't you die/lose 85% of your HP.

- Giant boulders that chase you through a shallow stream while frogs try to trip you with their tongues.

Giant boulders, streams...OK, frogs not so much.

Have more dungeons with the kind of puzzles that are in Lair of the Pirate King, or the Grey Wolf Den, but not for optional content. Ones that actually block your progress until solved. Have the solution randomized so that people can't just do them 5 seconds. Install doors that have locks that need be to picked, either by a thief or magically. Have keys that open the way to the final boss, such as in Spellplague, but not along the linear path, placed in side rooms off of the main trail. Just a few ideas for now.

calvin1tag

I don't want any "jumping" platformer stuff in the game at all honestly it's not something I enjoy I find it very frustrating to make precise jumps in online games where any type of lag / stutter / delay can ruin this. I would love to see Traps that "Require" a TR to be part of the group in order to make more usage of the this player that works with the game and the mechanics / themes that are already there (I was always a bit miffed that you don't get xp or anything really for removing 'traps' in the game with your TR)

Good thread though nice to throw some ideas hopefully like the dungeon key one some of these get implemented (except for mandatory difficult jumping that is )

Cheers

dndmasterdark

Of course these would be seperate dungeons than a normal type we already see, as such you would'nt be "forced" to do them.... If it is not for you then that is fine right? lol.

mithrosnomore

ordensmarschall wrote: »

Have more dungeons with the kind of puzzles that are in Lair of the Pirate King, or the Grey Wolf Den, but not for optional content. Ones that actually block your progress until solved. Have the solution randomized so that people can't just do them 5 seconds. Install doors that have locks that need be to picked, either by a thief or magically. Have keys that open the way to the final boss, such as in Spellplague, but not along the linear path, placed in side rooms off of the main trail. Just a few ideas for now.

Because there is nothing like punishing guardian fighters for not being able to pick that lock, right? They should have to get a rogue or wizard to pick that lock, while the rogues and wizards can just go about the lair normally?

Maybe they could add some quantum mechanics problems that would challenge the most qualified experts in the field so that everyone could learn to hate them.
Or even play a musical selection, and while the notes are playing require the players to rapidly input the notes being played until they get 100 consecutive notes correct.

Or they could just make them optional so that people that didn't care wouldn't have to deal with it.
No one wants to spend half of their playing time surfing the web looking for answers to some silly puzzle that they HAVE to answer before they can continue to play the game, nevermind not being able to find the answer to that same silly puzzle, preventing them from being able to play the game at all.

zacazu

great proof that the dungeons need it, is that it is more exciting to explore a glitch against the master to kill the master itself. haha

I would add deadly traps that can only be disabled by rogue guards that need to be killed by a "RedShot" ranger, master of multiple points of damage (a hydra). and of course, things like "protect the dc / cw until it finishes the ritual"

ps: yes, in the hydra came "king of the dragons" and other famous games snes ... hahha

abell39

I'd love for the environments of dungeons to be more interactive, whether by including puzzles, or elements that can be used in boss-fight strategies, or both. While I like the idea of jumping puzzles in theory (so that the space bar isn't totally useless), my depth perception is iffy as it is and historically I've hated jumping puzzles in 3-D games because they foul up my depth perception something fierce ("but I should have landed that jump on the platform!" "no you were a foot behind it, you fall into the lava and die!"). Add that to the normal occasional latency/lag in an MMO and jump puzzles could easily get too frustrating to be worthwhile.

dndmasterdark

I bet ya if they sold a key for zen that allowed a player to enter a obstacle course dungeon, alot of players would buy it.

unicorn11b

No! Hopping around a dungeon like a meth addicted jack russel terrier on a hot sidewalk is even less believable and even less realistic than fighting a demon with a sword or lobbing fireballs while a priest is casting healing spells. Go get a 2600 emulator and Pit Fall, or the first couple Tomb Raiders. Jumping and swinging sections are as annnoying, usualy just a lazy way too make a portion last longer or difficult without any real thought or storytelling in it. Almost as mindless as just adding another 50 trash mobs in the hallway.
If something is added it needs to increase the fun of the game, or at least not make it less so. There's a reason you don't see this in MMOs, or most any RPG. Thhey've been tried and found lacking. The people who play these types of games mostly don't want this mechanic.
Maybe for some quests since you an just dump those if you hate it. Or an optional part of a dungeon for some extra loot.
Any puzzles that are mor compliated than finding a hidden switch, or putting the round peg in the round hole after spending an hour searching for them is going to alienate 3/4 or more of the player base. Even the ones who can solve them will likely be annoyed by the time sink. That means lost revenue because a lot of the ones quitting are the ones that get tired of grinding for a few thousan ADs a day and just pay the $30 for a few hundred thousand.

ordensmarschall

mithrosnomore wrote: »

Because there is nothing like punishing guardian fighters for not being able to pick that lock, right? They should have to get a rogue or wizard to pick that lock, while the rogues and wizards can just go about the lair normally?

Maybe they could add some quantum mechanics problems that would challenge the most qualified experts in the field so that everyone could learn to hate them.
Or even play a musical selection, and while the notes are playing require the players to rapidly input the notes being played until they get 100 consecutive notes correct.

Or they could just make them optional so that people that didn't care wouldn't have to deal with it.
No one wants to spend half of their playing time surfing the web looking for answers to some silly puzzle that they HAVE to answer before they can continue to play the game, nevermind not being able to find the answer to that same silly puzzle, preventing them from being able to play the game at all.

Why would this punish GFs? Don't most people already have either a Rogue or a Wizard with them when doing a dungeon, I mean you are supposed to have 5 people to explore them. Not to mention, magically doesn't limit you to using a Wizard. Carry a few scrolls of Knock spells with you, viola problem solved. Have you never spent the 2 minutes it takes solve the wheel puzzle in PK, or the torch puzzle in GWD. No web surfing required, no half an hour needed.

dndmasterdark

valwryn wrote: »

Underwater Fighting!!! :eek:

Everyone moves slowly except the underwater creatures. Everyone would have to wear a special amulet to breathe underwater.;)

That's a neat idea (I'll add to it) - A section in a dungeon where you first have to collect the amulets...for example goto the north ward to collect special bottles then to the south ward to kill air golems that we can gather essences from to put in the bottles, then we have to take the full bottles to the east ward and fuse the bottles of air essences into amulets using giant forges. Once we have our amulets we can then enter the west ward where the water lair is and kill the kraken!
Of course the amulet only lasts so long and evaporates over time. tick tock!

LOVE it!
Of course you have to have the key to enter this dungeon and if you are not into that kinda thing, well you dont get the epic jumping boots +4 for the next dungeon! The Epic Lair of the Frog King!

*leaves to go chase his imagination*

ordensmarschall

Your making it much to complicated. Just bring along a couple potions of Water Breathing, not to mention there could rings, amulets, and helms that have a Water Breathing enchantment on them. Boots of Levitation, cool magic item for thieves to have.