not happy companion upgrades needed

anteon

i paid real money bought the hawk and it cant go past rank 20 with out A bazillon Astral diamonds come on really
its bad enough there not account wide but this stupidly high upgrade cost is starting to grate on my last nerve

I am sorry, I am not trying to be a troll or be a jerk but come on guys i just paid 23 pounds to buy some companions and my hawk can only hit rank 20? The shop and upgrade prices are too high!

I don't know who runs the in game market prices but the costs are just way higher than the average person can afford in a reasonable time.

and also if the sprite had healing powers she would have been epic she dont agro the mobs so bad

khimera906

While I do agree the fees are way too high, they shouldn't be very low either. Going from green to blue should still require a couple of hundreds of thousands of AD. It is a game after all so don't expect everything to be solved just by paying money, some playing will be required, and when you're a active level 60 player a couple hundreds of thousands are not that much.

maerwin

It's a free-to-play MMO. Yes, some prices (companion upgrades, respec) are absurd. But they are specifically designed to eventually bleed more money out of you than a p2p game would.

bmcd73

For me, almost every single thing in this game is WAY over priced. I like the game but the conscience decision to gouge players where it hurts most has not incentivized me to spend money. It has the exact opposite effect. I have 3 accounts in my house. 1 for me and 1 for each of my kids. I like to play with them and they see all the cool items in the game and say "oh...how can it get that?" to which I respond "well...that costs real money". Then they both simultaneously ask how much and when I tell them they both cringe. Bags are my biggest grievance. The game endlessly drops items that you need to gather to upgrade this or upgrade that and then to add insult to injury, the game gives you almost no storage to store said endless drops. Then there are things that are bind on pickup like with the new winter festival; fish, fishing pole, etc. Then $8 for 1 bag for 1 character? $10 for account unlock and I'm in. Same problem with the bank, oh..and the companions and mounts...sheesh. $20-35 for a single character? Again, you account unlock this stuff and I'm in. Until then, I'm not spending any cash on this game for me or either of my kids. Loosen the reigns a bit and I wouldn't mind spending a little coin on the game. I'm sure there are thousands of other players that have the same feelings and probably hundreds of parents that are getting tired of the micro transactions that aren't really micro.

There is also a school of thought that many, MANY companies work on. Sell things at super low margins and you will get way more sales that will make up for the smaller sales numbers of over priced items. I have 4 friends of mine that quit Neverwinter after playing a month because of the gouging on item costs. They all would have spent money if the prices were much lower per character or that they unlocked for the entire account. I think this model is driving people from the game. I also play STO and the economy in that game feels WAY different even though it is very similar. Getting dilithium and turning it into zen is much more reasonable. I have 2 level 60s and maybe 200k AD between them. The best stuff I have to sell are the rank 4 runes and they are only yielding a couple K for each sale. Not everyone has time/energy/desire to dungeon grind for the one drop that is worth something on the AH.

As a little history lesson, micro transactions where originally sold as tiny transactions that were under a $1. We have progressed far from the original microtransaction free to play model with $35 mounts.

bmcd73

But what I'm saying is that I like the game and want to continue liking the game. The pricing model has turned a number of my personal die hard DnD friends off from Neverwinter forever. That is a shame. Account unlocking would solve 80% of the problems...especially for altaholics like me. There is capitalism which I am all for, then there is capitalism that is short sighted which I think this is. When people leave a game they should leave for a few reasons, one of them SHOULDN'T be because bags cost too much. Or maybe I want to have ultimate ghost smiting in my talent tree instead of baby knoll bashing or that I want black hair instead of purple hair and don't want to pay $3 every time I want to change. Just silly.

glaknar

khimera906 wrote: »

While I do agree the fees are way too high, they shouldn't be very low either. Going from green to blue should still require a couple of hundreds of thousands of AD. It is a game after all so don't expect everything to be solved just by paying money, some playing will be required, and when you're a active level 60 player a couple hundreds of thousands are not that much.

Except you can solve this exact problem with money......

runebane

khimera906 wrote: »

While I do agree the fees are way too high, they shouldn't be very low either. Going from green to blue should still require a couple of hundreds of thousands of AD. It is a game after all so don't expect everything to be solved just by paying money, some playing will be required, and when you're a active level 60 player a couple hundreds of thousands are not that much.

If the cost was only a couple hundred thousand I'm sure many others (like me) would be fine with it. The problem is that upgrading a green or white quality companion to max costs well over a million AD. Don't get me wrong, someone would still complain. Someone always does. But it'd be less of a real issue if it only cost a couple hundred thousand.

Now its hopefully getting pushed further into the spotlight. After mod 2 we have 5 possible passive 'active slot' bonuses. And after the companion sale where lots of players bought companions for those slots. Perhaps more players will see how crazy the current upgrade cost is.

*And seriously... we get a passive bonus for having a companion in an active slot? It makes me wonder why they couldn't come up with a different name. Having the slots be called Standby slots or something. Idk. The passive/active opposite thing just seems silly. Especially since the active slot doesn't seem actually active at all. But that's a different issue.

badgerbadgerbadg

bmcd73 wrote: »

For me, almost every single thing in this game is WAY over priced. I like the game but the conscience decision to gouge players where it hurts most has not incentivized me to spend money. It has the exact opposite effect. I have 3 accounts in my house. 1 for me and 1 for each of my kids. I like to play with them and they see all the cool items in the game and say "oh...how can it get that?" to which I respond "well...that costs real money". Then they both simultaneously ask how much and when I tell them they both cringe. Bags are my biggest grievance. The game endlessly drops items that you need to gather to upgrade this or upgrade that and then to add insult to injury, the game gives you almost no storage to store said endless drops. Then there are things that are bind on pickup like with the new winter festival; fish, fishing pole, etc. Then $8 for 1 bag for 1 character? $10 for account unlock and I'm in. Same problem with the bank, oh..and the companions and mounts...sheesh. $20-35 for a single character? Again, you account unlock this stuff and I'm in. Until then, I'm not spending any cash on this game for me or either of my kids. Loosen the reigns a bit and I wouldn't mind spending a little coin on the game. I'm sure there are thousands of other players that have the same feelings and probably hundreds of parents that are getting tired of the micro transactions that aren't really micro.

There is also a school of thought that many, MANY companies work on. Sell things at super low margins and you will get way more sales that will make up for the smaller sales numbers of over priced items. I have 4 friends of mine that quit Neverwinter after playing a month because of the gouging on item costs. They all would have spent money if the prices were much lower per character or that they unlocked for the entire account. I think this model is driving people from the game. I also play STO and the economy in that game feels WAY different even though it is very similar. Getting dilithium and turning it into zen is much more reasonable. I have 2 level 60s and maybe 200k AD between them. The best stuff I have to sell are the rank 4 runes and they are only yielding a couple K for each sale. Not everyone has time/energy/desire to dungeon grind for the one drop that is worth something on the AH.

As a little history lesson, micro transactions where originally sold as tiny transactions that were under a $1. We have progressed far from the original microtransaction free to play model with $35 mounts.

I 100% agree, I would have spent money on some things (and have in many many "Free-to-play" games) if they were cheaper, but I have my limits. So instead of making 35-50 bucks on me, they have made ZERO. Considering that the costs to the company to sell non-existent goods in a game that exists in cyberspace can't be THAT high they are turning away essentially free money by a terrible pricing structure.

cdnbison

Cost of purple pet (pre-price cut): $30-35
Cost to upgrade white pet to purple: 1,550,000 AD (assuming exhange of 400AD = 1 Zen) = $38.75

Now, with the price cuts, I'd like to see upgrade costs adjusted accordingly, but until recently, the price was very much in line with what you would pay from the cash shop. I'm not seeing a problem with that.

As to event mounts / pets being green - I'm ok with it. If they were purple, there would be people complaining that people were getting epic pets / mounts "for free". People who paid money for the Feywild / Guardian / HotN packs would feel like their purchase was devalued.

The event pets aren't meant to give players a powerful companion or mount - they're showpieces. Trophies. Something to say "I was there. I did that" - much like the Caturday cloak (and oh, how I wish that could be used to change other neck pieces appearance)

jorifice1

Keep in mind, if you have played for a while and intend to keep playing for a while then you may want to save up those Ardent Coins (the ones you get by Praying). When you get 360 of them ( at least 360 days) you can trade them in for a Purple Companion. Free. Just for playing for a year. These days you don't even need to log onto the Game. You can do it through the Gateway.

bioshrike

jorifice1 wrote: »

Keep in mind, if you have played for a while and intend to keep playing for a while then you may want to save up those Ardent Coins (the ones you get by Praying). When you get 360 of them ( at least 360 days) you can trade them in for a Purple Companion. Free. Just for playing for a year. These days you don't even need to log onto the Game. You can do it through the Gateway.

I thought the SCA invocation thing just extends the timer... not get you another coin.

ambisset

jorifice1 wrote: »

Keep in mind, if you have played for a while and intend to keep playing for a while then you may want to save up those Ardent Coins (the ones you get by Praying). When you get 360 of them ( at least 360 days) you can trade them in for a Purple Companion. Free. Just for playing for a year. These days you don't even need to log onto the Game. You can do it through the Gateway.

I think you are mistaken you still need to login to invoke. The invoke skill is not yet available on the gateway.

To add my own thoughts to the thread in many games i've spent tens sometimes hundreds of pounds on in game stuff. However the key is that, that "stuff" has all been bought as micro payments the odd few pennies or 2-3 pounds here and there was never noticed at the time and added to the enjoyment of the game. Here things are 20-30 pounds and its a stop and think before purchase.

Levelling a character and you start to really notice around the mid 40s that the companions could do with an upgrade, that your bags are always nearly full. The amount of AD per day after doing a lot of dailies, invoking and leadership profession still nets less than 10k a day so 300,000 sounds a massive amount to unlock just 5 levels for a companion. It seems blindingly obvious that the character will reach 60 well before I could ever raise 300k AD. Which then just feels wrong that the companion which seems an integral part of the diversity of the game is so totally inferior.

To have a choice of companions is not even then viable as I cannot see how I'd get anything close to the amount of AD required to upgrade during levelling.

I'M assuming/hoping that the rate of AD collection get dramatically better in the 50s/at 60 or there is going to be little incentive to keep playing.

Alternatively if I was able to make little quality of life improvements to the character for a genuine micro payment I could easily see me paying out say 10-15 pounds a month or more without even batting an eyelid.

Bottom line the high prices are making people stop and think. THAT "stop and think" is the fundamental problem as by definition you are losing the impulse buy. Make it easier to impulse buy and you'd keep more customers. Make it feel like with an achievable effort you can improve your character and companion. At present with the rate of AD accrual whilst levelling the 1.5million AD price tag feels utterly unreachable.

I'm currently playing with 3 friends one of whom is actively doing all he reasonably can at lvl 47 to gain AD he has around 50k at present after just over a weeks play but that has taken many many hours of dailies grinding including pvp which he hates as well as invoking and going all out with leadership. He is really feeling the pain of his cleric companion dying all the time now he is 47 and throwing out week heals. Thus he is really keen to upgrade his companion. I'm not sure if he has realised and I've not had the heart yet to mention that the upgrade cost, which seems so massive ie: around 6 weeks at his rate of grinding, that the cost will only unlock 5 extra levels and that he will need another 1.2 million AD after that.

At the current rate of doing all dailies every day and invoking several times he is looking at another 24 weeks or almost 6 months of grind to get JUST ONE companion to a usable level for a level 60.

PLEASE TELL ME THAT THIS RATE IMPROVES DRAMATICALLY AND HOW???

All the guides I've seen so far rely on using auction house where it is clear prices in 2014 are a lot lower than the prices that made the activities viable in spring/summer 2013.

ambisinisterr

Moderator Notice - I went through this thread post by post. The front page was a mess but the second page was constructive enough to save the thread.
Thank you to those who were constructive in your feedback. You Rock!

I reworded the opening post in the hopes of conveying the same message in a manner which will attract less inflamatory responses. Feel free to edit the post as you see fit anteon.
Please report ( ) any posts you feel are abusive or insulting to another user so we can get things on track as quickly as possible! The mods regularly patrol the forums but we can not always have eyes everywhere.

I have brought up the prices of companions and upgrade costs quite often myself. I know how you feel.
I really wish the prices were more reasonable especially because they are a per character endeavor.

I love customizing my characters and would spend a ton of my disposable income on such features but as the prices are it's just too much for my blood and I do hope they look into further price reductions, especially for the upgrade fees.

khimera906

...If the total cost for going from white to purple would be, let's say, 750k - like something along the lines 100k-250k-400k - I'm sure a lot of us would consider it. And 750k is not a small amount either, but it wouldn't feel as discouraging as 1.5 million. The fact that you would start with a relatively low amount (100k) is very important because it doesn't scare the players off. These would be AD going out of the economy, never to be heard from again.
...Now, some may argue that these upgrades are intended for players who have a lot of AD and don't need anymore improvements on their gear, but even at that point, you would rather spend it on something else, like customizing you character's looks. Companions are meant to have a practical application in Neverwinter not to be just collectibles. Some of us, indeed, like to collect, but if you upgrade companions just to get that level 30 skin, there's something a tiny bit wrong system. If Artifacts are any indication (and I know this is just hypothetical), there should be another level of quality after purple, so what then? How much would we be required to spend for that upgrade? And would we spend another million AD for 5 levels more? I know I went on a bit of a rant over here, but I really want to see this game working on all levels.

howitzer001

I agree that the pricing model is far overboard with what you get in return. It should be about 1/2 of what they're currently charging for things.

ambisset

bioshrike wrote: »

I thought the SCA invocation thing just extends the timer... not get you another coin.

Every day you invoke you get a new Ardent Coin which can stack up to 500. The Celestial coins are the 7 day ones that expire if you don't invoke daily.

rortie

howitzer001 wrote: »

I agree that the pricing model is far overboard with what you get in return. It should be about 1/2 of what they're currently charging for things.

At most! I'd settle for half though. Right now they get 0*lots of, rather than plenty*little.

idontuseforumsmu

The cost model in Neverwinter is structured so that most players who intend to play a good solid time (say three months or more) will invest around the $50 to $75 dollar mark in order to have A) More than two accounts, Some bank slots, C) Bag Space, D) A good Companion and E) Playing "scratch lottery" with the lockboxes.

When you consider this, $50 to $75 isn't a bad cost at all compared to other models, where you'll be paying $59.99 for the software on release, and $15 per month for subsequent months.

I think it's ingenious to make things like bag space (nothing more than convinience and speed factor) the charge here. The only thing I don't like is that you shouldn't be able to convert Zen to AD. I've got no problem converting AD to Zen, that allows premier players to upgrade without paying money through auctioning, but the other way ensures that if you want to, you can get the very best of anything simply by paying, that model never works long term in games.

ianthewizard2012

I understand your feeling. Maybe you could think it from a different angle.

Currently rank 10 enchantments sell for 3~4 million on AH. But upgrading a companion who grants stat bonus to epic costs only 1.25~1.55 million. That means by using that companion's active bonus you save 1.75~2.45 million.

Same for companion who grants special effects. For exmaple, Wild Hunt Rider on epic grants 5% chance on encounter use to give +10% damage for 5 seconds. The effect proc a lot with AoE encounter powers and the duration can be accumulated. Such an effect is as useful as a Heroic Feat / Paragon Feat so the spending on him is worthwhile, imho.

HTH ~

chocobofarmer

You cant resell companions. One thing that makes people willing to get very high ranking enchantments is the fact that they can resell it.

megamousegw

I want a combat pet for my HR.

ianthewizard2012

chocobofarmer wrote: »

You cant resell companions. One thing that makes people willing to get very high ranking enchantments is the fact that they can resell it.

Good point. Maybe in the Grand Emporium we can have a new item being introduced that can terminate the employment of rank 30 companions and change their bound status into bind on equip so that they can be traded and auctioned freely.

It's always nice to see more role-playing items being introduced into the game.

aznxknightz

Hey i know... how about requiring gold instead to upgrade companions?

cenomx

In my opinion, upgrades, as someone said before, should follow the zen market. Never lower, never. I'm so certain of its the way to go, that until now i'm waiting for the price adjustment to upgrade my Wild Hunt on CW. I don't know why people expect things that are very end gaming to be cheap. I would agree with a cut if they release the legendary companion, and increase, maybe.. 10 levels... Would be fair, to keep purple to legend exp and all others cheaper. Just a tought

melodywhr

ianthewizard2012 wrote: »

Good point. Maybe in the Grand Emporium we can have a new item being introduced that can terminate the employment of rank 30 companions and change their bound status into bind on equip so that they can be traded and auctioned freely.

It's always nice to see more role-playing items being introduced into the game.

based on the last official word, this won't happen. there used to be an inoperable function during open beta to "unbind" companions for AD but this never worked. it was left over from development testing and per the official word, it didn't fit the game so it was turned off.

as for the necessity of upgrading companions, or the necessity of companions period, in my opinion, neither is a necessity. they sure are fun to have, though. sure, having a cleric to assist with healing vs popping pots during leveling is helpful. but after a certain point, they're just not going to be as powerful as your character is (or will be). it would be nice if we could set what action they provide (which could be a future option to prevent those overly aggressive pets from pulling you into every fight possible), but for now, they are what they are.

ianthewizard2012

melodywhr wrote: »

based on the last official word, this won't happen. there used to be an inoperable function during open beta to "unbind" companions for AD but this never worked. it was left over from development testing and per the official word, it didn't fit the game so it was turned off.

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure what "didn't fit the game" means. Was it something related to role-playing, economy, or programming?

rollingonit

They wont tell you, but you can infer; had enough AD sinks lined up and in place and possible loss in revenue.

To be fair, I think all the CMs agreed they wanted to keep it (even melody) but alas devs had a different plan. Old topic.

Reduce upgrade prices cryptic please

hobokenboy

rollingonit wrote: »

Reduce upgrade prices cryptic please

Never happen. They are set that high so that players get tired of grinding for AD and whip out the old wallet to buy what they want. Simple truth, there.


Oh...and......I'M BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!!!!!!!!

zaggador

if you buy a companion with zen or a mount and are displeased with it is there anyway you can trade it for a different companion/mount on the zen store?

ortzhy

zaggador wrote: »

if you buy a companion with zen or a mount and are displeased with it is there anyway you can trade it for a different companion/mount on the zen store?

ofc not

zyphxx

If you purchase a companion with Zen, does it also require shards to upgrade?