cw are broken op atm so time to nerf them ...they are better tanks then gwf and gf since trash cant ever hit them or atack since 2 cw cc lock everything easy
cw are broken op atm so time to nerf them ...they are better tanks then gwf and gf since trash cant ever hit them or atack since 2 cw cc lock everything easy
You know what would fix this problem more than nerfing a class for no reason?
Fixing dungeons. CC immune mobs, less trash more single target, etc etc. Mechanics on bosses that force range to get close to do full damage or something, many possibilities.
You guys are complaining about lazy Dungeon design, not class imbalances.
Father McGruder - Scrub geared DPS DC - I kick HAMSTER for the Lord!
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
0
nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2013
Fardelver Crypt has a large amount of CC immune mobs (golems, riders) and yet you can clear that dungeon a lot faster stacking more CW than other classes, so no, adding more CC immune mobs won't really solve anything while CW AoE damage abilities are mainly uncapped and deal more AoE damage than other classes.
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Fardelver Crypt has a large amount of CC immune mobs (golems, riders) and yet you can clear that dungeon a lot faster stacking more CW than other classes, so no, adding more CC immune mobs won't really solve anything while CW AoE damage abilities are mainly uncapped and deal more AoE damage than other classes.
Why the hell you people insist on this falsity, that CWs do more AoE damage than other classes?!?
GWFs and HRs do just the same.
If your gear is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, don't expect to top the vorpal CW. If you specced for PvP survivability or as a hybrid, don;t expect to do more DPS than the CW that went FULL Pve and picked ONLY +damage feats.
Only TRs have an issue here and GFs (maybe).
If you're a GWF or HR, all you gotta do if you want to top DPS is improve char, gear&skills.
Fardelver Crypt has a large amount of CC immune mobs (golems, riders) and yet you can clear that dungeon a lot faster stacking more CW than other classes, so no, adding more CC immune mobs won't really solve anything while CW AoE damage abilities are mainly uncapped and deal more AoE damage than other classes.
U gota be kiding CW's aof damage is a ****, the only aoe skill that do some damage is Shard of endless avalabche or something like that.
I got a HR with blues and i can pass cws on DPS very easy, but GWF i cant, and u have to understand that DPS on dungeon means every mob u hit so if u hit more u get more dps but it doesnt mean u can kill anything by urself
Fardelver Crypt has a large amount of CC immune mobs (golems, riders) and yet you can clear that dungeon a lot faster stacking more CW than other classes, so no, adding more CC immune mobs won't really solve anything while CW AoE damage abilities are mainly uncapped and deal more AoE damage than other classes.
Ok what's the complaint here. Is it too much AoE damage? Too much access to CC that is needed in a dungeon? Able to tank better than a GF so GF's aren't needed? The complaint changes post to post and there's ways of changing that without changing the class.
Too much AoE damage? Less adds, more single target=other classes stay competitive(although I keep reading that the disparity is not that much, mearly gear/skill choosings)
Too much CC? Apparently dungeons have CC immune mobs so what's the issue then? Would making all dungeon mobs except for the trashiest of trash mobs be immune to CC solve the problem? Make the CW main job worthless? You want WoW 2.0 where no one uses CC's anymore just burn burn burn with a couple pummels/interrupts now and then?
Too much tank by teleporting around? Make boss fights have a stamina recharge debuff or a debuff that makes your shift movement skill cost even more, suddenly CW's aren't nearly as mobile and you'll need GF's keeping things off them. Make dungeon monsters hit a lot harder or something, nothing in cloth should be able to take more than 2 hits from a dungeon mob, defeats the purpose of armor classes.
I'm not really seeing how CW's are OP, more that I'm just seeing players taking advantage of sloppy dungeon designs and mechanics.
Father McGruder - Scrub geared DPS DC - I kick HAMSTER for the Lord!
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
Ahhh and if they nerf CW's again then more of then will ne needed to finish an dungeon wich means less from others classes will be used, there'r already 5/5 CW's partys and it's becouse a single of then cant do they job on cc so more a needed
0
tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2013
Just gonna say that stacking geared PvE spec GWF's works exceptionally well in many dungeons, just like CWs, but less squishy. Personally I don't have a problem with CW damage.
Fardelver Crypt has a large amount of CC immune mobs (golems, riders) and yet you can clear that dungeon a lot faster stacking more CW than other classes, so no, adding more CC immune mobs won't really solve anything while CW AoE damage abilities are mainly uncapped and deal more AoE damage than other classes.
Off the top of my head, Icy Terrain, Sudden Storm, and Oppressive Force are uncapped. Pretty sure most other powers are at 5, 8 and 15 (Singularity).
My concern with any notions of direct nerfs to CW damage is each and every nerf has backfired and made CWs seem even more essential. Unless they first improve other classes' AoE abilities or revamp dungeons to include specific monsters or tasks that are best suited to other classes, any core imbalance will not be resolved.
I'm not generally in favor of nerfing CWs (CW is one of my main classes, so admitted bias), but I would LOVE to see improvements that contribute to GFs becoming more desirable. My GF friends are suffering a collective PvE identity crisis, not being sure where their class fits in since they very rarely seem to be filling an essential role.
Given that GWFs have the best survivability and the best DPS etc. etc.?
And yet it doesn't provide anything to the party since it can't hold aggro nor heal nor provide (almost) any CC nor debuff mobs.
Even with 3-4 CWs some of them can go (almost) full DPS (Sudden Storm, tabbed Chill Strike, Shard of the Endless Avalanche) and still provide more CCs, buffs (Shadow Weaver) and debuffs (High Vizier) than any GWF/GF/DC (I really can't speak about HR).
I have a CW myself, it's kinda obvious to everyone that played for a little while why they are the most required class in PvE.
Well they are Wizards after all, I wouldn't expect no damage to come from blasting spawn with arcane power, CW is primary controller secondary Striker, just like GF is primary defender secondary control and GWF is primary striker secondary control. Though I think GWF built right puts out the most DPS followed by TR and HR.
As for HR's massive amount of damage they are also for some reason squishier than the control wizard. I think they a little nerf in dps and a little boost in defense.
And yet it doesn't provide anything to the party since it can't hold aggro nor heal nor provide (almost) any CC nor debuff mobs.
Even with 3-4 CWs some of them can go (almost) full DPS (Sudden Storm, tabbed Chill Strike, Shard of the Endless Avalanche) and still provide more CCs, buffs (Shadow Weaver) and debuffs (High Vizier) than any GWF/GF/DC (I really can't speak about HR).
I have a CW myself, it's kinda obvious to everyone that played for a little while why they are the most required class in PvE.
come and get it rounds up mobs nicely on a short cd, not so fast gives CA for Inst, avalanche is perfect with singularity to keep cw alive(room of illusions in vt, the dog spawn etc), im running with 2cw as full dps gwf, and its the best setup
heals ? i dont need cleric nor pots(maybe 1 or 2) in vt
be "op" is not getting the best damages be "op" is to have one of the best damage and dominate the primary resource for pve, which is control. ALL THIS attacking from afar, outside red zones.
want to know? fix the cw. the class is definitely broken.
Have you ever played a cw? Maybe I am just a nub but please tell me what untabbed, raned, aoe control power a cw has? Everything that is aoe cc is centered around the cw its self unless you put the power in tab which happens to nerf damage.
Ok this is going to bring flames but I really think the GOOD cw's people are seeing and using as a basis for the OP statements are just SKILLED PLAYERS. As a cw you don't stand at a distance and just lob damage in and still expect to do much control, you don't stand invincible in the middle of mobs and just chop things down with your epeen, you are running, dodging, trying to stay alive. These should be called CW survival powers and not control or dps or burst or anything, because as a sw you are generally doing whatever it is you do, to survive.
People who are not skilled players or do not enjoy fairly complex combat mechanics will drop plying cw after lvl 10 or 20 and make a different class.
Again, hey Im a nub maybe I just don't know, but someone please show me the fing GODPOWER that lets the cw stand away from any danger and just auto-control all of the mobs and kill everything just pressing the same two fing buttons and not moving their toon around at all.
CWs are so required in dungeons because they prevent FAILS...the toon can tank, can damage, can control because the player is just that good and is absolutely maxing out the capabilities he is given within the structure of the cw game mechanics.
So please, stop qqing, minus CWs, most dungeon romps would be fing fail parades, be glad we are here and we are able to do what we do.
Ok this is going to bring flames but I really think the GOOD cw's people are seeing and using as a basis for the OP statements are just SKILLED PLAYERS. As a cw you don't stand at a distance and just lob damage in and still expect to do much control, you don't stand invincible in the middle of mobs and just chop things down with your epeen, you are running, dodging, trying to stay alive. These should be called CW survival powers and not control or dps or burst or anything, because as a sw you are generally doing whatever it is you do, to survive.
People who are not skilled players or do not enjoy fairly complex combat mechanics will drop plying cw after lvl 10 or 20 and make a different class.
Again, hey Im a nub maybe I just don't know, but someone please show me the fing GODPOWER that lets the cw stand away from any danger and just auto-control all of the mobs and kill everything just pressing the same two fing buttons and not moving their toon around at all.
CWs are so required in dungeons because they prevent FAILS...the toon can tank, can damage, can control because the player is just that good and is absolutely maxing out the capabilities he is given within the structure of the cw game mechanics.
So please, stop qqing, minus CWs, most dungeon romps would be fing fail parades, be glad we are here and we are able to do what we do.
/end rant.
tipical primadona cw lol.
cw is op in pve not so much in pvp.eather u can deal with it or play 2 classes.
0
orangefireeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,148Arc User
edited December 2013
Control wizards are focused on AOE damage and control in this game, their actual damage dealt and kill number is going to be the highest but their single target DPS is lacking compared to other classes such as the trickster rogue.
Neverwinter players are stubborn things....until you strip them down to bone. (Cursed players, my flowers, MINE!) Oh how I plotted their demise.
let's see ... "gwf reigns in pvp": no matter what the pvp system - which by the way is already balanced. Have to take a class nerf because he is "immortal".
cw reigns in pve : oh, the guilt is the mechanics of the dungeon. change game. leave cw alone (and cry).
no, "nerf the cw". two weights and two measures? no more.
ps: nerf to the ranger also. why? why I do not like arrows.
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2013
When already a few people told you MANY times in this topic that the problem is the dungeon design, not the CW, and that issues can be solved my mobs with anti-magic shields that need to be burned by melee and so on...
... and you completely ignore the given solutions....
... and demand CW nerfs again and again as the one and only "good" path to take...
I can only say that this is just raging cause you cannot get into some dungeon, or because of your low char DPS, and because you lack knowledge&skill to make it higher.
If you're a GF or TR, then you have a (partial) point, as whatever you do, you can still not touch good CWs in dps. Hence, if dungeon design changes are not possible, your damage should be tweaked so you can be able to compete for top dps. This doesn't regard PvP TRs or tanky GFs, they should not be able to compete for top DPS, spec for that if this is what you're after.
So think well before asking thoughtlessly for nerf, nerf, nerf. It makes you look like you just rage against a certain class.
Rule 3.15 - No Petitions, Ultimatums or Hostile Demands
. . . . Please keep feedback constructive and within a format for Community Discussion. Disallowed topics include things like, "Please Nerf This Class" and anything without the direction of a constructive Community Discussion.
Comments
But at least GWFs are fine with having to pick one or the other, not being both at the same time. So nice try, but no cigar...
You can still do respectable dps as a sentinel especially after mod 2 and you never have worry about dying. Go smoke your cigar now.
here i fixed it
You know what would fix this problem more than nerfing a class for no reason?
Fixing dungeons. CC immune mobs, less trash more single target, etc etc. Mechanics on bosses that force range to get close to do full damage or something, many possibilities.
You guys are complaining about lazy Dungeon design, not class imbalances.
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
Why the hell you people insist on this falsity, that CWs do more AoE damage than other classes?!?
GWFs and HRs do just the same.
If your gear is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, don't expect to top the vorpal CW. If you specced for PvP survivability or as a hybrid, don;t expect to do more DPS than the CW that went FULL Pve and picked ONLY +damage feats.
Only TRs have an issue here and GFs (maybe).
If you're a GWF or HR, all you gotta do if you want to top DPS is improve char, gear&skills.
Simple.
I got a HR with blues and i can pass cws on DPS very easy, but GWF i cant, and u have to understand that DPS on dungeon means every mob u hit so if u hit more u get more dps but it doesnt mean u can kill anything by urself
Ok what's the complaint here. Is it too much AoE damage? Too much access to CC that is needed in a dungeon? Able to tank better than a GF so GF's aren't needed? The complaint changes post to post and there's ways of changing that without changing the class.
Too much AoE damage? Less adds, more single target=other classes stay competitive(although I keep reading that the disparity is not that much, mearly gear/skill choosings)
Too much CC? Apparently dungeons have CC immune mobs so what's the issue then? Would making all dungeon mobs except for the trashiest of trash mobs be immune to CC solve the problem? Make the CW main job worthless? You want WoW 2.0 where no one uses CC's anymore just burn burn burn with a couple pummels/interrupts now and then?
Too much tank by teleporting around? Make boss fights have a stamina recharge debuff or a debuff that makes your shift movement skill cost even more, suddenly CW's aren't nearly as mobile and you'll need GF's keeping things off them. Make dungeon monsters hit a lot harder or something, nothing in cloth should be able to take more than 2 hits from a dungeon mob, defeats the purpose of armor classes.
I'm not really seeing how CW's are OP, more that I'm just seeing players taking advantage of sloppy dungeon designs and mechanics.
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
Off the top of my head, Icy Terrain, Sudden Storm, and Oppressive Force are uncapped. Pretty sure most other powers are at 5, 8 and 15 (Singularity).
My concern with any notions of direct nerfs to CW damage is each and every nerf has backfired and made CWs seem even more essential. Unless they first improve other classes' AoE abilities or revamp dungeons to include specific monsters or tasks that are best suited to other classes, any core imbalance will not be resolved.
I'm not generally in favor of nerfing CWs (CW is one of my main classes, so admitted bias), but I would LOVE to see improvements that contribute to GFs becoming more desirable. My GF friends are suffering a collective PvE identity crisis, not being sure where their class fits in since they very rarely seem to be filling an essential role.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Given that CWs have the best control and extremely competitive DPS your blind-spot is pretty huge...
Given that GWFs have the best survivability and the best DPS etc. etc.?
And yet it doesn't provide anything to the party since it can't hold aggro nor heal nor provide (almost) any CC nor debuff mobs.
Even with 3-4 CWs some of them can go (almost) full DPS (Sudden Storm, tabbed Chill Strike, Shard of the Endless Avalanche) and still provide more CCs, buffs (Shadow Weaver) and debuffs (High Vizier) than any GWF/GF/DC (I really can't speak about HR).
I have a CW myself, it's kinda obvious to everyone that played for a little while why they are the most required class in PvE.
As for HR's massive amount of damage they are also for some reason squishier than the control wizard. I think they a little nerf in dps and a little boost in defense.
come and get it rounds up mobs nicely on a short cd, not so fast gives CA for Inst, avalanche is perfect with singularity to keep cw alive(room of illusions in vt, the dog spawn etc), im running with 2cw as full dps gwf, and its the best setup
heals ? i dont need cleric nor pots(maybe 1 or 2) in vt
so wtf are u talking about
Have you ever played a cw? Maybe I am just a nub but please tell me what untabbed, raned, aoe control power a cw has? Everything that is aoe cc is centered around the cw its self unless you put the power in tab which happens to nerf damage.
Jugger Conq GF
....
People who are not skilled players or do not enjoy fairly complex combat mechanics will drop plying cw after lvl 10 or 20 and make a different class.
Again, hey Im a nub maybe I just don't know, but someone please show me the fing GODPOWER that lets the cw stand away from any danger and just auto-control all of the mobs and kill everything just pressing the same two fing buttons and not moving their toon around at all.
CWs are so required in dungeons because they prevent FAILS...the toon can tank, can damage, can control because the player is just that good and is absolutely maxing out the capabilities he is given within the structure of the cw game mechanics.
So please, stop qqing, minus CWs, most dungeon romps would be fing fail parades, be glad we are here and we are able to do what we do.
/end rant.
Jugger Conq GF
....
tipical primadona cw lol.
cw is op in pve not so much in pvp.eather u can deal with it or play 2 classes.
cw reigns in pve : oh, the guilt is the mechanics of the dungeon. change game. leave cw alone (and cry).
no, "nerf the cw". two weights and two measures? no more.
ps: nerf to the ranger also. why? why I do not like arrows.
... and you completely ignore the given solutions....
... and demand CW nerfs again and again as the one and only "good" path to take...
I can only say that this is just raging cause you cannot get into some dungeon, or because of your low char DPS, and because you lack knowledge&skill to make it higher.
If you're a GF or TR, then you have a (partial) point, as whatever you do, you can still not touch good CWs in dps. Hence, if dungeon design changes are not possible, your damage should be tweaked so you can be able to compete for top dps. This doesn't regard PvP TRs or tanky GFs, they should not be able to compete for top DPS, spec for that if this is what you're after.
So think well before asking thoughtlessly for nerf, nerf, nerf. It makes you look like you just rage against a certain class.
thanks.