There are still people using sudden storm for aoe? Well keep doing so, and i'll keep outdamaging thaumaturges with my oppressor/icy terrain.
Seriously, why would you chose anything but dots with storm spell and EotS? Make your own tests guys. Icy terrain is far superior to sudden storm to deal damage, and the control aspect of this spell is also a lot better.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
There are still people using sudden storm for aoe? Well keep doing so, and i'll keep outdamaging thaumaturges with my oppressor/icy terrain.
Seriously, why would you chose anything but dots with storm spell and EotS? Make your own tests guys. Icy terrain is far superior to sudden storm to deal damage, and the control aspect of this spell is also a lot better.
Heh.
Storm Spell=No Evocation. Will it proc a lot on IT? Yeah.
So what? You could hit shards, SS and ST 15% harder.
Oppressors can't outdps thaums... only if thaums are asleep, beginners, ungeared etc. Trust me I tried, in my attempt to play dungeons with PvP spec. My damage was SO BAD, I respecced back to thaum in a few days, from which I don't have pleasant memories, lagging 100% behind my CW friends in CN and just feeling like being carried.
Storm Spell=No Evocation. Will it proc a lot on IT? Yeah.
So what? You could hit shards, SS and ST 15% harder.
Oppressors can't outdps thaums... only if thaums are asleep, beginners, ungeared etc. Trust me I tried, in my attempt to play dungeons with PvP spec. My damage was SO BAD, I respecced back to thaum in a few days, from which I don't have pleasant memories, lagging 100% behind my CW friends in CN and just feeling like being carried.
I have yet to find another CW doing more damage than me when i play my own wizard. From the legit channel, /lfg, pugs... I've seen some 15, 16k GS thaumaturges with greater vorpals and I was still doing more damage with a lesser or normal vorpal, and of course most of them were using that sudden storm. When they use IT then it's different, the challenge is harder for me. The only class i may have issues with are GWFs, and they better be overgeared with perfect vorpals R9/10 to challenge me. I don't know. I'm not saying it's not possible or that it can't happen, but then if you're right it means i have yet to meet a CW player who knows how to play his class, and i have met a lot of different players. You will understand that it sounds quite suspicious.
I have yet to find another CW doing more damage than me when i play my own wizard. From the legit channel, /lfg, pugs... I've seen some 15, 16k GS thaumaturges with greater vorpals and I was still doing more damage with a lesser or normal vorpal, and of course most of them were using that sudden storm. When they use IT then it's different, the challenge is harder for me. The only class i may have issues with are GWFs, and they better be overgeared with perfect vorpals R9/10 to challenge me. I don't know. I'm not saying it's not possible or that it can't happen, but then if you're right it means i have yet to meet a CW player who knows how to play his class, and i have met a lot of different players. You will understand that it sounds quite suspicious.
I really wonder what kind of awful CWs you are running with that you are consistently outdamaging them as Oppressor running Icy Terrain, and with lower quality enchantments. I'm sure you're quite skilled at your playstyle, but I really question these other CWs.
Icy Terrain is a good power, and it does more damage than most people think thanks to its lack of target cap and its synergy with Storm Spell, but I have never witnessed it outperforming Sudden Storm in the damage department.
On a side note, I'm not entirely sold on Evocation. I still run Storm Spell because of how it beefs up At-Wills and how crazily it fires during Steal Time casts and with CoI. One of these days I'll get my parser working properly and figure out what's truly better for my style.
I'm not entirely sold on Evocation. I still run Storm Spell because of how it beefs up At-Wills and how crazily it fires during Steal Time casts and with CoI. One of these days I'll get my parser working properly and figure out what's truly better for my style.
I'm not fully sold either.
I'm running evocation/eots now, sure, numbers are quite a bit higher, but... damage overall? Maybe maybe a bit higher. I honestly can't tell for sure, but some how I miss SS. In my case, it does 7% or so from my overall damage. Have no idea if 15% ends up being much better, and I have little patience to respec again and again for that elusive "best DPS" config
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focusmanMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm running evocation/eots now, sure, numbers are quite a bit higher, but... damage overall? Maybe maybe a bit higher. I honestly can't tell for sure, but some how I miss SS. In my case, it does 7% or so from my overall damage. Have no idea if 15% ends up being much better, and I have little patience to respec again and again for that elusive "best DPS" config
Same here, Storm Spell has great damage and can proc on all encounters. Yet evocation gives bigger numbers, it wont work on Sudden Storm (which is my 2nd or first best dps). When cryptic decides that Sudden Storm is also affected by evocation then evocation it is 100% sure. Before that I think they are equal to eachother, it wont differ that much.
I have yet to find another CW doing more damage than me when i play my own wizard. From the legit channel, /lfg, pugs... I've seen some 15, 16k GS thaumaturges with greater vorpals and I was still doing more damage with a lesser or normal vorpal, and of course most of them were using that sudden storm. When they use IT then it's different, the challenge is harder for me. The only class i may have issues with are GWFs, and they better be overgeared with perfect vorpals R9/10 to challenge me. I don't know. I'm not saying it's not possible or that it can't happen, but then if you're right it means i have yet to meet a CW player who knows how to play his class, and i have met a lot of different players. You will understand that it sounds quite suspicious.
I think you havent met the right CW's then. No oppressor can beat a competent CW using a thaum build.
Fine i've played with lousy wizards then. Surprisingly, according to the forums, all of them were, including overgeared ones. Anyone willing to dps race with me just to show me if the difference is that big? With normal or greater vorpal please, i won't get a perfect before next week.
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focusmanMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Fine i've played with lousy wizards then. Surprisingly, according to the forums, all of them were, including overgeared ones. Anyone willing to dps race with me just to show me if the difference is that big? With normal or greater vorpal please, i won't get a perfect before next week.
Sure, but I dont call it a dps race. I would like to see, if it is true, that oppressor is a viable path for pve. Only one problem, I have a perfect vorpal .... Add me: @focusman84
ps. If you use a greater vorpal, it wont differ that much from my perfect. Say if im 20m dmg and you 10m dmg, then its not because of my perfect . I Am even willing slot no weapon enchant in it.
Fine i've played with lousy wizards then. Surprisingly, according to the forums, all of them were, including overgeared ones. Anyone willing to dps race with me just to show me if the difference is that big? With normal or greater vorpal please, i won't get a perfect before next week.
It's not the forum, it's called common sense. Sudden storm is better dmg than icy terrain, build doesn't matter. Now i want to see focusman posting a screenshot where he outdpsed u by a mile so you will stop posting bs.
Hello
I have a lightning enchantment and wanted to ask if there is anything in the build you would alter to get the most from it.
When human with wisdom over charisma and 5 in fight on, so with col, ice terrain and chilling cloud. I normally have a lot of chill stacks
Was thinking about getting bitter cold just to make the most of that or mm to build arcane stacks.
Thank you for all your hard work for the community.
Sure, but I dont call it a dps race. I would like to see, if it is true, that oppressor is a viable path for pve. Only one problem, I have a perfect vorpal .... Add me: @focusman84
ps. If you use a greater vorpal, it wont differ that much from my perfect. Say if im 20m dmg and you 10m dmg, then its not because of my perfect . I Am even willing slot no weapon enchant in it.
Okay I will contact you during the weekend. I'll have time to make a race run with you then.
Hello
I have a lightning enchantment and wanted to ask if there is anything in the build you would alter to get the most from it.
When human with wisdom over charisma and 5 in fight on, so with col, ice terrain and chilling cloud. I normally have a lot of chill stacks
Was thinking about getting bitter cold just to make the most of that or mm to build arcane stacks.
Thank you for all your hard work for the community.
With lightning you would want to use icy terrain over sudden storm to make the most out of it. You will end up doing a hefty amount of damage during aoe trah phase (if you have greater lightning or better).
Stats in the end wont matter a huge deal, maybe a % here or there, but no need to re-roll. work with what you have.
You can take bitter cold for a flat damage, the reasons i used nightmare wizardry are posted in the topic.
Also note that you have every encounter at your disposal so you can change accordingly. i use different encounters when im solo dailying/ skirmish and different loadouts depending on group experience/dungeon.
e.g. i often take out sudden storm for icy terrain when in a low exped/geared group, or when i need to solo alot of trash without any help. Also i have +30% control duration from my companions so i like making things into ice cubes :P
Chill strike i put on mastery when im doing dailies or solo content/skirmishing.
So here are the result of the thaumaturge vs oppressor match: 12M (thaum, focusman), 9M (oppressor, me), on MC. Same set, same GS (more or less), no augment pets. This means a +30% damage increase for the pve spec. I haven't seen the cleric buffing, so I believe we were on an equal footing.
It's not insignificant but since i'm never in a hurry and that dungeons are short, i'll stick to oppressor for now. I'm not really willing to save 2-3 mins on a run at the expense of my fun in pvp.
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focusmanMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
So here are the result of the thaumaturge vs oppressor match: 12M (thaum, focusman), 9M (oppressor, me), on MC. Same set, same GS (more or less), no augment pets. This means a +30% damage increase for the pve spec. I haven't seen the cleric buffing, so I believe we were on an equal footing.
It's not insignificant but since i'm never in a hurry and that dungeons are short, i'll stick to oppressor for now. I'm not really willing to save 2-3 mins on a run at the expense of my fun in pvp.
and take in account: i didnt use any weaponenchant and unslotted radiants from my rings/belt during the fight to see when the dps would come closer to eachother. Since I was at 5.1m and you 1.9m in the beginning....
But I parsed it:
Icy Terrain vs Sudden Storm = 655k vs 2.2m.
Butt topic closed, this a build/guide for CW's... this is something different.
and take in account: i didnt use any weaponenchant and unslotted radiants from my rings/belt. Thaum wins :P
Yes you had to catch up with my poor gear on my CW. I've never said you didn't win. Obviously, you did, and not by a small margin. I was merely saying that the pvp spec wasn't terrible enough for me in pve to switch to a pve one.
Yes you had to catch up with my poor gear on my CW. I've never said you didn't win. Obviously, you did, and not by a small margin. I was merely saying that the pvp spec wasn't terrible enough for me in pve to switch to a pve one.
Why cant you just say gg instead of making excuses.
I have yet to find another CW doing more damage than me when i play my own wizard. From the legit channel, /lfg, pugs... I've seen some 15, 16k GS thaumaturges with greater vorpals and I was still doing more damage with a lesser or normal vorpal, and of course most of them were using that sudden storm. When they use IT then it's different, the challenge is harder for me. The only class i may have issues with are GWFs, and they better be overgeared with perfect vorpals R9/10 to challenge me. I don't know. I'm not saying it's not possible or that it can't happen, but then if you're right it means i have yet to meet a CW player who knows how to play his class, and i have met a lot of different players. You will understand that it sounds quite suspicious.
Why cant you just say gg instead of making excuses.
:rolleyes:
What you call "excuses" are my own conclusions about that test. I often read people saying that oppressor is terrible, that they feel carried, that it can't be used in pve. It's good enough for me and oppressor works in pve.
The main benefit of using Icy Terrain imo is Storm Spell Procs... Check his log, to see the % of his dmg on this class feature. I noted this when i was rolling CoI/Icy Terrain + Lightning. I had average 20% of Storm Spell damage with this.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2014
Well... Oppressor would be kinda good enough... regardless of that lower damage, if, and only if Oppressor would bring something for the party to the table.
Thaum helps party with CoI, Elemental Empowerment... while Oppressor has Cold Infusion, which many Oppressors don't even take and is kinda meh anyway.
Thaums help everybody's else damage, so overall they're just a better addition to a party. Oppressors would do good with some feat reworking in this regard.
The main benefit of using Icy Terrain imo is Storm Spell Procs... Check his log, to see the % of his dmg on this class feature. I noted this when i was rolling CoI/Icy Terrain + Lightning. I had average 20% of Storm Spell damage with this.
The issue most of us had with diogene had more to do with him jumping on this thread trashtalking and claiming Oppressor was so much better at damage. I personally do not use IT but know several very good CWs that do. All things being equal it will still not out damage a rotation of coi shard ss.
The issue most of us had with diogene had more to do with him jumping on this thread trashtalking and claiming Oppressor was so much better at damage. I personally do not use IT but know several very good CWs that do. All things being equal it will still not out damage a rotation of coi shard ss.
Nice try. I said I was outdamaging the thaumaturges I have played with with my oppressor. I have never claimed oppressor was better for damage. Well, outdamaging thaumaturges until yesterday I mean, of course.
I'm still convinced that IT is better than SS, unless you stack 3-4 CWs. IT is a dot and will do more damage, but it needs mobs with a lot of HPs to make it better than sudden storm. It does even better with non controllable stuff, for obvious reasons. That's why I asked for MC when I played with focusman, this is IMO the most fair testing ground for every class & build. Everyone has a chance with MC mobs, including GWFs or TRs. You only need stuff to stay alive long enough to make it worth the encounter slot. Or you need to be the only CW to have a total control over NPCs positionning. As soon as someone is using singularity after the initial pull, IT/feated is wasted.
I don't play CN and this may be a 4 CW CN build, but I haven't seen that stated anywhere in the OP.
Well... Oppressor would be kinda good enough... regardless of that lower damage, if, and only if Oppressor would bring something for the party to the table.
Thaum helps party with CoI, Elemental Empowerment... while Oppressor has Cold Infusion, which many Oppressors don't even take and is kinda meh anyway.
Thaums help everybody's else damage, so overall they're just a better addition to a party. Oppressors would do good with some feat reworking in this regard.
I haven't seen many Thaumaturges feating nightmare wizardry. Maybe you do, maybe some others picked it too, but most of the times, when i play with thaumaturges, the only non thaum feat i see is bitter cold. Just to top the damage chart I guess. Well, oppressors can chose that, because there's no point using the 10 extra parangon point in oppressor, once you have what you need (severe reaction, bitter cold, alacrity, glacial movement and ofc the final feat). That's my next build.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I haven't seen many Thaumaturges feating nightmare wizardry. Maybe you do, maybe some others picked it too, but most of the times, when i play with thaumaturges, the only non thaum feat i see is bitter cold.
The "good" Thaum build out there these days requires one to have both Elemental Empowerment and Transcended Master. So there's space for another 5 points. Many take Bitter Cold for the flat damage increase. I took Critical Power cause I kinda like having my daily up faster in both PvP and PvE. On test shard I have Severe Reaction instead for example, and it shows... a lot...
As for Nightmare Wizardry, most guys I party will position themselves all the time for CA, so the need for this feat is kinda low IMO. It is however the obvious choice if you go full Renegade.
The thing is, Thaum have innate advantages for party play. It's pretty unfair for an Oppressor to try and compete against them in PvE. Not to mention basically Oppressors "leech" of Elemental Empowerment and Assailing Force
I actually tried to play Oppressor in PvE for a little while, in my attempts to do better in PvP My CW indeed did significantly better, but I had super low damage compared to what I used to as either rene or thaum. So after 2 days of trying to make it work, I gave back and returned to Thaum. I just don't like dealing half the damage I usually do...
Oppressor could do a wonderfull job in PVE when you need Add to stay in place as you can freeze them to death but it really lack damage boost for being good in damage.
I play Thaum and I have try Renegad too, I find both of them lacking on the control part.
Maybe, these 3 could be redone a little for being more usefull in both PvE and PvP. For example:
Oppressor could be around adding chill and increase damage on chilled target, or something equivalent.
Thaum could have a feat to reduce control resist on mob
Renegad could have a chance to interrupt on crit
dont know how yout party members are able to position them for CA all the time... you need a person on either side of the enemy, which is pretty tough to do on certain bosses and especially on trash.
I'm still convinced that IT is better than SS, unless you stack 3-4 CWs.
You are convinced that Icy Terrain does more damage then Sudden Storm, show us facts and not thoughts. I parsed it with act (= a fact) and your Ice terrain did 70,3% less damage then my Sudden Storm. I played without weaponenchant and you used a greater vorpal, I played half naked, unslotting until we came damagewise at the same amount. Since in the beginning, before going to the first boss, I was 273%(exactly) ahead of you, then I thought 'ok lets start unslotting more enchants', which finally came to a ~30% more damage for me. And we played MC, which you asked.
I really don't mind you thinking Icy Terrain deals more damage. The fact is just: thaum does way more damage, and Icy Terrain is good for control but compared to Sudden Storm it's no competition. The fact you don't play CN (even legit). You don't care about your augment (all blue stuff), and never parsed your damage (I think, otherwise you would have noticed the pve oppressor is no match for a thaum) says enough. Stick to pvp and play some pve, have fun with the game etc etc but don't come here saying things which you think without facts. The fact is:
Oppressor vs Thaum 0-1
Icy Terrain vs Sudden Storm 0-1
Off the record: I like CW Oppressors but not for PvE. And for an Oppressor you did well pve wise.
Oppressor could do a wonderfull job in PVE when you need Add to stay in place as you can freeze them to death but it really lack damage boost for being good in damage.
I play Thaum and I have try Renegad too, I find both of them lacking on the control part.
Maybe, these 3 could be redone a little for being more usefull in both PvE and PvP. For example:
Oppressor could be around adding chill and increase damage on chilled target, or something equivalent.
Thaum could have a feat to reduce control resist on mob
Renegad could have a chance to interrupt on crit
OK, it's just another crazy idea.
If anything is found lacking in the control department, it's the fault of the player, not the spec. Whether Oppressor, Thaumaturge, or Renegade, all builds of CW have sufficient tools to provide necessary control since they all draw from the same pool of powers.
I think a few Oppressor feats could use tweaking to make them a little more desirable, though.
it's not what I mean, it just that Oppressor need a little buff in damage while the other two can receive some control buff so they are all 3 good in both DPS and control aspect.
it would feel a lot better to be free to be oppressor in PvE or Thaum in PvP, for example.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
dont know how yout party members are able to position them for CA all the time... you need a person on either side of the enemy, which is pretty tough to do on certain bosses and especially on trash.
Well, I admit "all the time" is too exclusive of a term. I should have used "almost". It's not that hard to do, all it takes is one person to run on that other side of the mob pack or boss (which usually has mob packs on top of it).
I am mostly thinking CN these days when I talk about PvE since rest of dungeons are irrelevant once you got your loot out of them due to BoP mechanics. Almost all CN fights are about pulling huge packs and grouping them together while party members surround the pack ideally, and for bosses, just the same, since all the strategy that we have is "sing on top of it for AoE".
I really don't mind you thinking Icy Terrain deals more damage. The fact is just: thaum does way more damage, and Icy Terrain is good for control but compared to Sudden Storm it's no competition. The fact you don't play CN (even legit). You don't care about your augment (all blue stuff), and never parsed your damage (I think, otherwise you would have noticed the pve oppressor is no match for a thaum) says enough. Stick to pvp and play some pve, have fun with the game etc etc but don't come here saying things which you think without facts.
Actually I have used ACT, long ago, and noticed that IT did more damage than sudden storm. I was the only CW in the team so I have no other reference but myself using IT or SS.
My augment pet is fine. It has rank 7-8 enchantments, and even if my cat has a blue belt (the rest is ancients), the fact that i picked a cat for 2.5x the price of a stone means my CW is a bit of a priority. Of course my augment can't compete with someone using R10 on it, and i have to change a few elements on it, because it's putting me 0.5% beyond the arpen cap (just need to take some time to do it) - that's why i asked for no pet.
I don't play CN because i've stopped after my 50th draco kill. That's boring, mind-numbing, and mobs are unchallenging (so is the new boss, even after the changes). I like having stuff hitting hard i can't control. More fun as a CW.
I never claimed oppressor was the best pve spec, i only claimed i was able to outdamage thaums (now i will add: but you ) with equal or superior gear with my wizard. I could post many screenshots if i had something to prove. Unfortunately, i didn't record that because it's a bit pointless to me. All i can say is that oppressor is competitive in PvE. Not the best: competitive. When you make the math, it only means 3-4 more minutes at most for most dungeons. I can only speak for myself, but it's not worth giving up on my pvp build.
By the way you removed your perfect after 50% of the dungeon (one room or two before malabog iirc). Make the maths if you want to recalculate damage, i encourage you to do so.
Comments
Seriously, why would you chose anything but dots with storm spell and EotS? Make your own tests guys. Icy terrain is far superior to sudden storm to deal damage, and the control aspect of this spell is also a lot better.
Heh.
Storm Spell=No Evocation. Will it proc a lot on IT? Yeah.
So what? You could hit shards, SS and ST 15% harder.
Oppressors can't outdps thaums... only if thaums are asleep, beginners, ungeared etc. Trust me I tried, in my attempt to play dungeons with PvP spec. My damage was SO BAD, I respecced back to thaum in a few days, from which I don't have pleasant memories, lagging 100% behind my CW friends in CN and just feeling like being carried.
I have yet to find another CW doing more damage than me when i play my own wizard. From the legit channel, /lfg, pugs... I've seen some 15, 16k GS thaumaturges with greater vorpals and I was still doing more damage with a lesser or normal vorpal, and of course most of them were using that sudden storm. When they use IT then it's different, the challenge is harder for me.
I really wonder what kind of awful CWs you are running with that you are consistently outdamaging them as Oppressor running Icy Terrain, and with lower quality enchantments. I'm sure you're quite skilled at your playstyle, but I really question these other CWs.
Icy Terrain is a good power, and it does more damage than most people think thanks to its lack of target cap and its synergy with Storm Spell, but I have never witnessed it outperforming Sudden Storm in the damage department.
On a side note, I'm not entirely sold on Evocation. I still run Storm Spell because of how it beefs up At-Wills and how crazily it fires during Steal Time casts and with CoI. One of these days I'll get my parser working properly and figure out what's truly better for my style.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
I'm not fully sold either.
I'm running evocation/eots now, sure, numbers are quite a bit higher, but... damage overall? Maybe maybe a bit higher. I honestly can't tell for sure, but some how I miss SS. In my case, it does 7% or so from my overall damage. Have no idea if 15% ends up being much better, and I have little patience to respec again and again for that elusive "best DPS" config
Same here, Storm Spell has great damage and can proc on all encounters. Yet evocation gives bigger numbers, it wont work on Sudden Storm (which is my 2nd or first best dps). When cryptic decides that Sudden Storm is also affected by evocation then evocation it is 100% sure. Before that I think they are equal to eachother, it wont differ that much.
I think you havent met the right CW's then. No oppressor can beat a competent CW using a thaum build.
Black Lotus
http://nl.twitch.tv/wixardofoz
Sure, but I dont call it a dps race. I would like to see, if it is true, that oppressor is a viable path for pve. Only one problem, I have a perfect vorpal .... Add me: @focusman84
ps. If you use a greater vorpal, it wont differ that much from my perfect. Say if im 20m dmg and you 10m dmg, then its not because of my perfect
Black Lotus
http://nl.twitch.tv/wixardofoz
It's not the forum, it's called common sense. Sudden storm is better dmg than icy terrain, build doesn't matter. Now i want to see focusman posting a screenshot where he outdpsed u by a mile so you will stop posting bs.
I have a lightning enchantment and wanted to ask if there is anything in the build you would alter to get the most from it.
When human with wisdom over charisma and 5 in fight on, so with col, ice terrain and chilling cloud. I normally have a lot of chill stacks
Was thinking about getting bitter cold just to make the most of that or mm to build arcane stacks.
Thank you for all your hard work for the community.
Okay I will contact you during the weekend. I'll have time to make a race run with you then.
With lightning you would want to use icy terrain over sudden storm to make the most out of it. You will end up doing a hefty amount of damage during aoe trah phase (if you have greater lightning or better).
Stats in the end wont matter a huge deal, maybe a % here or there, but no need to re-roll. work with what you have.
You can take bitter cold for a flat damage, the reasons i used nightmare wizardry are posted in the topic.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
e.g. i often take out sudden storm for icy terrain when in a low exped/geared group, or when i need to solo alot of trash without any help. Also i have +30% control duration from my companions so i like making things into ice cubes :P
Chill strike i put on mastery when im doing dailies or solo content/skirmishing.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
It's not insignificant but since i'm never in a hurry and that dungeons are short, i'll stick to oppressor for now. I'm not really willing to save 2-3 mins on a run at the expense of my fun in pvp.
and take in account: i didnt use any weaponenchant and unslotted radiants from my rings/belt during the fight to see when the dps would come closer to eachother. Since I was at 5.1m and you 1.9m in the beginning....
But I parsed it:
Icy Terrain vs Sudden Storm = 655k vs 2.2m.
Butt topic closed, this a build/guide for CW's... this is something different.
Black Lotus
http://nl.twitch.tv/wixardofoz
Yes you had to catch up with my poor gear on my CW. I've never said you didn't win. Obviously, you did, and not by a small margin. I was merely saying that the pvp spec wasn't terrible enough for me in pve to switch to a pve one.
Why cant you just say gg instead of making excuses.
and this is what you wrote btw:
PvP GWF - BizzyBedBug
PvE GF (salvaged)
PvE TR (salvaged)
GWF PvP/CW PvE @ http://www.twitch.tv/bizzyplusplus/
:rolleyes:
What you call "excuses" are my own conclusions about that test. I often read people saying that oppressor is terrible, that they feel carried, that it can't be used in pve. It's good enough for me and oppressor works in pve.
Thaum helps party with CoI, Elemental Empowerment... while Oppressor has Cold Infusion, which many Oppressors don't even take and is kinda meh anyway.
Thaums help everybody's else damage, so overall they're just a better addition to a party. Oppressors would do good with some feat reworking in this regard.
The issue most of us had with diogene had more to do with him jumping on this thread trashtalking and claiming Oppressor was so much better at damage. I personally do not use IT but know several very good CWs that do. All things being equal it will still not out damage a rotation of coi shard ss.
Nice try. I said I was outdamaging the thaumaturges I have played with with my oppressor. I have never claimed oppressor was better for damage. Well, outdamaging thaumaturges until yesterday I mean, of course.
I'm still convinced that IT is better than SS, unless you stack 3-4 CWs. IT is a dot and will do more damage, but it needs mobs with a lot of HPs to make it better than sudden storm. It does even better with non controllable stuff, for obvious reasons. That's why I asked for MC when I played with focusman, this is IMO the most fair testing ground for every class & build. Everyone has a chance with MC mobs, including GWFs or TRs. You only need stuff to stay alive long enough to make it worth the encounter slot. Or you need to be the only CW to have a total control over NPCs positionning. As soon as someone is using singularity after the initial pull, IT/feated is wasted.
I don't play CN and this may be a 4 CW CN build, but I haven't seen that stated anywhere in the OP.
I haven't seen many Thaumaturges feating nightmare wizardry. Maybe you do, maybe some others picked it too, but most of the times, when i play with thaumaturges, the only non thaum feat i see is bitter cold. Just to top the damage chart I guess. Well, oppressors can chose that, because there's no point using the 10 extra parangon point in oppressor, once you have what you need (severe reaction, bitter cold, alacrity, glacial movement and ofc the final feat). That's my next build.
The "good" Thaum build out there these days requires one to have both Elemental Empowerment and Transcended Master. So there's space for another 5 points. Many take Bitter Cold for the flat damage increase. I took Critical Power cause I kinda like having my daily up faster in both PvP and PvE. On test shard I have Severe Reaction instead for example, and it shows... a lot...
As for Nightmare Wizardry, most guys I party will position themselves all the time for CA, so the need for this feat is kinda low IMO. It is however the obvious choice if you go full Renegade.
The thing is, Thaum have innate advantages for party play. It's pretty unfair for an Oppressor to try and compete against them in PvE. Not to mention basically Oppressors "leech" of Elemental Empowerment and Assailing Force
I actually tried to play Oppressor in PvE for a little while, in my attempts to do better in PvP
I play Thaum and I have try Renegad too, I find both of them lacking on the control part.
Maybe, these 3 could be redone a little for being more usefull in both PvE and PvP. For example:
Oppressor could be around adding chill and increase damage on chilled target, or something equivalent.
Thaum could have a feat to reduce control resist on mob
Renegad could have a chance to interrupt on crit
OK, it's just another crazy idea.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
You are convinced that Icy Terrain does more damage then Sudden Storm, show us facts and not thoughts. I parsed it with act (= a fact) and your Ice terrain did 70,3% less damage then my Sudden Storm. I played without weaponenchant and you used a greater vorpal, I played half naked, unslotting until we came damagewise at the same amount. Since in the beginning, before going to the first boss, I was 273%(exactly) ahead of you, then I thought 'ok lets start unslotting more enchants', which finally came to a ~30% more damage for me. And we played MC, which you asked.
I really don't mind you thinking Icy Terrain deals more damage. The fact is just: thaum does way more damage, and Icy Terrain is good for control but compared to Sudden Storm it's no competition. The fact you don't play CN (even legit). You don't care about your augment (all blue stuff), and never parsed your damage (I think, otherwise you would have noticed the pve oppressor is no match for a thaum) says enough. Stick to pvp and play some pve, have fun with the game etc etc but don't come here saying things which you think without facts. The fact is:
Oppressor vs Thaum 0-1
Icy Terrain vs Sudden Storm 0-1
Off the record: I like CW Oppressors but not for PvE. And for an Oppressor you did well pve wise.
Check out these videos to see why most CW's (pve) use Thaum:
http://www.twitch.tv/lovesyouall/c/3568983 (full run)
http://www.twitch.tv/wixardofoz/c/3568743 (only draco, same run)
Black Lotus
http://nl.twitch.tv/wixardofoz
If anything is found lacking in the control department, it's the fault of the player, not the spec. Whether Oppressor, Thaumaturge, or Renegade, all builds of CW have sufficient tools to provide necessary control since they all draw from the same pool of powers.
I think a few Oppressor feats could use tweaking to make them a little more desirable, though.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
it would feel a lot better to be free to be oppressor in PvE or Thaum in PvP, for example.
Well, I admit "all the time" is too exclusive of a term. I should have used "almost". It's not that hard to do, all it takes is one person to run on that other side of the mob pack or boss (which usually has mob packs on top of it).
I am mostly thinking CN these days when I talk about PvE since rest of dungeons are irrelevant once you got your loot out of them due to BoP mechanics. Almost all CN fights are about pulling huge packs and grouping them together while party members surround the pack ideally, and for bosses, just the same, since all the strategy that we have is "sing on top of it for AoE".
Actually I have used ACT, long ago, and noticed that IT did more damage than sudden storm. I was the only CW in the team so I have no other reference but myself using IT or SS.
My augment pet is fine. It has rank 7-8 enchantments, and even if my cat has a blue belt (the rest is ancients), the fact that i picked a cat for 2.5x the price of a stone means my CW is a bit of a priority. Of course my augment can't compete with someone using R10 on it, and i have to change a few elements on it, because it's putting me 0.5% beyond the arpen cap (just need to take some time to do it) - that's why i asked for no pet.
I don't play CN because i've stopped after my 50th draco kill. That's boring, mind-numbing, and mobs are unchallenging (so is the new boss, even after the changes). I like having stuff hitting hard i can't control. More fun as a CW.
I never claimed oppressor was the best pve spec, i only claimed i was able to outdamage thaums (now i will add: but you
By the way you removed your perfect after 50% of the dungeon (one room or two before malabog iirc). Make the maths if you want to recalculate damage, i encourage you to do so.