Also NOT everyone votes in polls, so again the polls are biased and don't show the actual numbers. Even a poll with 2 choices, pvp or pve is going to be biased cause not everyone votes. So basing facts on polls doesn't work.
In game in all zones I see multiple instances of people PvEing which means more people are doing that over PvPing.
In game I encounter multiple groups of people doing PvP, which means more people are doing PvP over PvE. That's pretty much the logic I'm hearing, so I will go ahead and use it myself.
You think 2 different polls appealing to two different groups equally to avoid bias is considered bias, yet, you say just because you see people in all zone PvE-ing, that means they are not PvP-ing and therefore more ppl PvE than PvP. How is that more logical than the polls? Lol.... Again, since there are two polls that are each designed with the same content, but to appeal to each group individually, a combination of the two should result in an unbias result.
To prove that the polls are bias, you would need to prove that there is a larger group of individuals who only PvP or PvE that would be voting in BOTH of these polls, which would be hard to do since one poll is PvE based and the other is PvP based with the same content to avoid this.
In the end, polls are representations of an entire group's opinions. Yeah, no poll is perfect because it doesn't include the entire population. How else would we get large scale statistics about a population? Polling has been proven to be the only method for that unless you have a way to specifically ask each individual of a large community.
Even voting is just a poll. Should we stop using elections to put people in power because voting is a false representation when not everyone's opinion is included? Not everyone votes in these election polls.
How do you explain PvP que generally going in 30 seconds to a minute each time I que? That means ~ every 30s-1min 10 people are going into pvp. I would say that is a significant portion of the community. Besides, when you are doing PvE you don't get to see all the people who are doing PvP, so how can you say because you see a lot of people doing PvE that more are doing that than PvP?
Another point that gets washed over is that PvPers and PvErs have a symbiotic relationship to some degree. More people playing this game is good for this game. Some of the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> you farm in PvE is bought by PvPers. Don't marginalize a portion of this game's population just because you don't enjoy that aspect of the game. It's self-defeating in the long run.
How about just not playing it if you don't enjoy it? I don't care for Mango flavored ice cream. I don't go around calling for it to be pulled off the shelves. Why would you want to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off a fair portion of this games population?
Where is your proof. I am on everyday but I am not a PvPer. I have 4 accounts.
LOL this topic is getting funny now. You keep saying the major portion of the player base is pvpers yet you have not posted one scrap of proof. The multiple groups of these so called pvpers are more than likely the same group that do it multiple times
Where is the proof that the majority are PvE players? Again, this is a useless argument because there is no proof for either. Hence, this is why things like polls are created, and I don't care if the polls are 100% accurate. They shouldn't be, there are a representation, not an absolute, but the polls do show that there are a significant amount of players who only PvP at least that are involved in the forums. And I would say that more or less the players involved in the forums are a decent distribution of both PvP and PvE players.
PvP start off boring and stays boring. i don't know how you can stand PvPing unless you are an e-peen wagging tool.
PvP is soo easy, like mind-numbingly easy, the only thing you need to do is buy the best gear and play a perma-stealth rogue, the only possible challenge is to figure out how many bots are on your team vs the opposing team.
I don't play games to measure my e-peen. I play to do cooperative missions with like minded people. There is no more repetitive action than PvP, and the rewards for PvP are even more meaningless than in PvE, because the PvP rewards are inherently balanced by the existence of PvE.
PvE in this game is mind-numbingly boring. The real pvp community in this game often set up premade matches which really elevates the challenges of the matches. There is quite a bit of strategy involved in those matches that don't just revolve around who can kill who first.
Where is your proof. I am on everyday but I am not a PvPer. I have 4 accounts.
Where is your proof? I'm on everyday, and I play both PvP and PvE, but I always PvP while wearing a Barney costume. I have one account with three characters, but I only play the third character on alternate Wednesdays. My second character is functionally <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, and he can only count to potato.
I like PvE it's fun and all but what do I do with all the equip and money I earned through PvE ? I play PvP to compete with other players. Especially in this game PvE<PvP because there are no real raids + you can do PvE with PvP equip the other way around you gonna fail
Where is your proof. I am on everyday but I am not a PvPer. I have 4 accounts.
LOL this topic is getting funny now. You keep saying the major portion of the player base is pvpers yet you have not posted one scrap of proof. The multiple groups of these so called pvpers are more than likely the same group that do it multiple times
My proof is in the forums. I suggest in the near future, you take some time to go into the class forums. You'll see the majority of builds are designed for PvP, by PvP'rs.
Which would be irrelevant due to the submissions by others, that a small fraction of the player base take part or even visit the forums. But either way I don't agree with PVP>PVE or PVE>PVP. It's whatever the individual prefers. If you based it off content, PVE would win by quantity of it but quality could be questioned. PVP quantity yah, there is no quantity. Not sure why these threads even started, not just this one; but the other 3-4 that popped up in past couple days.
Edit: OK I read what these topics are about. Each party wants the developers to focus more on whichever side of the table you're on. The lol part about it. You eliminate 1 part you will most likely get the same attention, and more attention on revenue driving. So no one would win, and 1 would sorely lose. GG
moderation note: the two opposing threads discussing pvp > pve and pve > pvp have been merged. if this discussion cannot be kept civil and respectful, the entire thread will be closed. please be mindful that continually attacking any and every post that opposes your opinion is considered power-posting and is not allowed. this includes continual discussion about poll viability and percentages. i'd keep the sarcasm to a minimum in this thread as it's just going to be perceived as trolling. and post violations in this thread will be removed without warning, the posters subject to having their forum privileges temporarily or permanently revoked.
do not discuss this moderation notice. instead, send a PM to the community moderators and/or the community managers to discuss it. thanks!
As has been succinctly pointed out, their is NO evidence one way or the other about player numbers increasing/decreasing and unless one of the devs decides to provide this information, all claims about "this has caused ..." "this is the reason ..." are nothing short of hyperbole.
Myself I am (as another postee has said) and "olde <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>" and have a long an memorable association with D&D, I have played many hours (read:years) of P&P. I am what I would call "satisfactorily affluent" and successful, so I do have $$$ to spend, and spend it I do, on this game quite happily. I have no interest whatsoever in PvP and yes I will spend hundreds of Z buying dye kits and I DO dye even my lvl 10 gear just to make one of my toons armor match their horse!
I play for the "Story", I read ALL the 'lore' items and listen to all the dialogues and spend hours looking for matching amours, weapons and enchants. Am I alone? I don't thinks so, judging by the simple fact that we even have a D&D Online game, there is a very large group of people out there that share my love of fantasy and role playing.
I like the idea proposed earlier, that PvP should be linked to, but separated from PvE
Ofc a poll isn't going to represented a whole, but they generally do arlight at estimating it when they are not bias. Yes, that poll was bias towards pvp, but this one is bais towards pve, and still has a 40% PvP vote.
40% pvp 60% pve in one poll bias towards pve
55% pvp 45% pve in another poll bias towards pvp
Yeah, polls are never perfect, but this has both polls to reduce bias.
I agree that (1) titles can lead to biased results, (2) small sample polls should be taken with a grain of salt, and (3) forum members are not a great representation of the total population. (Caveats)
However, it is still important to interpret the poll information correctly. They should not be interpreted as indicated in the quoted post above. Instead, the two polls should be interpreted as follows:
(a) 43% only enjoy PVE (30% only play PVE)
(b) 40% only play for PVP
(c) 17% enjoy both
(a) calculated as [1 - PVP_POLL_%(Do you pvp for fun?)]
(b) calculated as [1 - PVE_POLL_%(Yes, of course! This is a PVE game.)]
(c) calculated as 1 - a - b
On the caveats above:
The polls do not contradict each other --> suggests minimal bias impact. (1)
The polls were taken at different times --> increases effective sample size. Max(Poll 1, Poll2) <= Sample Size <= Poll1 + Poll2. (2)
The polls are a decent indication of the forum members' gaming behavior. Only Cryptic knows if the forum population is indicative of the total population and/or the total paying population. (3)
I can't believe removing pvp could even be a subject worth serious discussion. If anything, I want to see pvp cross over into pve MORE. As in factions, and when you are on your open-instanced pve quest and run across someone from an opposing faction, you gank the %$# out of them and end up fighting in the mix of a ton of pve spawn so it is a one big brawl. Call on members of your faction for help in x areas and soon enough you have a bench-clearing battle in the middle of the pirates skyhold (or where ever), dead toons dropping their highest gs slotted single piece. Oh ya.
I would go so far as having Guilds with their own "towns" (character housing), and the "guild hall" being something like a castle at the center of town. Guards could be volunteered off-line toons in the guild. Raid that. Yes, attack it, siege it, blitz it. Entering the "vault" in the guild hall would mean being able to take everything from 1 page of the beaten guilds bank.
You want some mad fun, do that. Of course anyone could opt-out, soe guilds could simply not be "Ranked" or otherwise pvp.
The closest I have seen to this kind of system is swtor where you get to raid the bases the opposing factions, and attack other faction players while questing. Nothing like cooperating to beat a hard quest boss and then slugging it out afterwards for the treasure.
I can't believe removing pvp could even be a subject worth serious discussion. If anything, I want to see pvp cross over into pve MORE. As in factions, and when you are on your open-instanced pve quest and run across someone from an opposing faction, you gank the %$# out of them and end up fighting in the mix of a ton of pve spawn so it is a one big brawl. Call on members of your faction for help in x areas and soon enough you have a bench-clearing battle in the middle of the pirates skyhold (or where ever), dead toons dropping their highest gs slotted single piece. Oh ya.
I would go so far as having Guilds with their own "towns" (character housing), and the "guild hall" being something like a castle at the center of town. Guards could be volunteered off-line toons in the guild. Raid that. Yes, attack it, siege it, blitz it. Entering the "vault" in the guild hall would mean being able to take everything from 1 page of the beaten guilds bank.
You want some mad fun, do that. Of course anyone could opt-out, soe guilds could simply not be "Ranked" or otherwise pvp.
The closest I have seen to this kind of system is swtor where you get to raid the bases the opposing factions, and attack other faction players while questing. Nothing like cooperating to beat a hard quest boss and then slugging it out afterwards for the treasure.
Get rid of pvp? pfffft.
I hate open world pvp in quest areas. If it game had some special open pvp locations or pvp zones in each area (like WHO) it would be better.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Getting rid of PvP is a bad idea, its essential to have some form of PvP to play as an option. I agree it should not be focused on (unless cryptic get a bigger team)
But right now, PvP is where alot of NW's money comes from, Only the PvPers (mostly) buy rank 10 enchants and what not. It's clever,
If they introduced Matchmaking (rankings and titles) It may either:
1. Turn away people who just want to pay money to stomp lowly geared
2. Increase competitiveness and make more people buy higher enchants.
This opens a huge number of problems:
1. more whining from certain classes (I would imagine CWs), More time balancing classes.
2. Top teams being dominated by just 1 class/composition.
But gains benefits:
1. Makes PvP more enjoyable for lower and higher skilled players
2. Gives extra incentive and drive to play through
Grimah is right. It works, and it gets them money which is good. The thing is that even 'hardcore' PvPers will get bored with no matchmaking system to make them fight for something. Getting the best PvP build with full perfect and R10s will keep your interested high as long as you meet some competition.
The one thing that is easy to do is make two separate queues. One for premades and one for individual runs. The difference between the two queues will be that in the second one you can't join when in group. If this is implemented and it's working, then a penalty for leavers should be applied.
Other than that, PvP and PvE are two different worlds that both are very interesting in their own particular way. NW's combat system is so good that it's a shame not to invest in both worlds. My opinion is that the only problem right now is the queueing system for individuals, in both aspects of the game.
First, i would point out that the link at the "do you PvE" poll and the comment is misleading.
The poll choices ask if you do PvE, not if you mostly PvE. It's shows not that 70% of people "mostly PvE". It shows that 70% of players PvE too. Which means they may PvE AND PvP. Few are the players who ONLY PvP.
I go both PvP and PvE.
I don't have BiS gear, but i am still above average and can fight even against the players from the top PvP guilds. Simply cause PvP in this game is not only about gear, but about builds and skills too.
PvE is fun too. But i think people get too focused in doing fast runs or make the dungeon run faster and faster. Just pick up a random party and go have fun. Every run will be different this way. Some will go well, some will end with a wipe. Who cares.
My toon is hybrid, PvP focused but also efficient in PvE, using a second gear set i built running dungeons during DD.
My PvP gear is made of heroic duelist full set, rank 7 and 6 enchants, and normal armor and weapon enchants crafted through skirmish runs, AD from dailies and from dungeon loots. Still, as i said, in PvP i never feel outclassed or powerless, not even 1v1ing better geared players.
Only times PvP gets really frustrating is when you end up against a strong premade with a pug team.
If dungeons get boring it's just cause you guys rush the content, get it cleared in few days, run dungeons 30000000000000 times obsessed with best composition/ gear score/ fast fast fast run/ farm farm farm to get bilions of AD. Then you complain cause there's not enough new content.
The hell. Learn to play. Go pug and just enjoy playing the game, instead of farming like your life depends on it.
The random party you end up with can't clear the dungeon? Who the hell cares. Call it a day and retry. I got some unlucky runs, some average runs, and some very fast and easy runs being randomly joined in parties from other guilds.
Only problem of being a lone wolf is that i can't go to GG. Other than that, i don't rush the content and enjoy both PvP and PvE a lot, getting better in the process. Play the game in my free time and spent only few USD for one respec and one appearence change. Nothing else. This game can be funny, you just have to relax and enjoy it, while Learning how to play it and building your toon.
Grimah is right. It works, and it gets them money which is good. The thing is that even 'hardcore' PvPers will get bored with no matchmaking system to make them fight for something. Getting the best PvP build with full perfect and R10s will keep your interested high as long as you meet some competition.
The one thing that is easy to do is make two separate queues. One for premades and one for individual runs. The difference between the two queues will be that in the second one you can't join when in group. If this is implemented and it's working, then a penalty for leavers should be applied.
Other than that, PvP and PvE are two different worlds that both are very interesting in their own particular way. NW's combat system is so good that it's a shame not to invest in both worlds. My opinion is that the only problem right now is the queueing system for individuals, in both aspects of the game.
100% agree on everything.
PvP is funny to alternate with PvE. Facing other humans is different everytime. Also, i think that joining pugs against other pugs is funny cause every match is different from the other.
PVP in this game is so broken, I won't miss it. I played EQ2 a very long time with many chars ONLY to PVP. I only PVEed to gear up or craft. My focus was only PVP there. In NW PVP is no fun, you can see that the devs haven't put a lot of effort into them and that they just added a PVP mode over the PVE mode. Take WOW. They focus heavily on PVE and although I don't like this game one can say that it has the best PVE and raid content available. Focussing would not be bad. I like the combat mode of NW, if they would focus more on dungeon content, make it fun and challenging, if they would make quests more interesting and crafting this could be a good game.
Only times PvP gets really frustrating is when you end up against a strong premade with a pug team.
If dungeons get boring it's just cause you guys rush the content, get it cleared in few days, run dungeons 30000000000000 times obsessed with best composition/ gear score/ fast fast fast run/ farm farm farm to get bilions of AD. Then you complain cause there's not enough new content.
The hell. Learn to play. Go pug and just enjoy playing the game, instead of farming like your life depends on it.
The random party you end up with can't clear the dungeon? Who the hell cares. Call it a day and retry. I got some unlucky runs, some average runs, and some very fast and easy runs being randomly joined in parties from other guilds.
100% agree. This is why my only problem in this game is the queue system when you are solo. If the PvP queues were separated in two types (solo and group join), you would completely avoid pugs vs lolpremades. You would also give the premades the chance to face other premades or partially premades, so they'd really test their skill.
If they somehow fix the PvE dungeon queue system, what you indicate will also be possible. If a DPS is waiting 1 hour per average queue and then end up with a 3 person queue waiting in the campfire, then if the group he finally finds will constantly wipe and finally breaks up...waiting for another hour isn't really fun.
If they somehow fix the PvE dungeon queue system, what you indicate will also be possible. If a DPS is waiting 1 hour per average queue and then end up with a 3 person queue waiting in the campfire, then if the group he finally finds will constantly wipe and finally breaks up...waiting for another hour isn't really fun.
I started using the LFG chat since the dungeon queue system is not relyable. It works only for daily DV since, well, you can make that dungeon with pretty much everything. Done it with a full 5 GWF party one time. Got to tank the boss alone for the last 10 minutes, it was a bit longer but it was a blast and a funny run.
For epics, LFG is better since most people use that chat to form parties and go queue only once the full party is ready. That's why queue on epics thakes so long. For a DPS it's sure harder than for a DC or CW to find a party, but not that hard.
Thing is, people should stop being obsessed by best party composition to clear the dungeon faster, experience, gear score, exc... just to farmfarmfarmfarm the same dungeon over and over and lootlootlootlootloot.
Relax. Build a regular party. You sure need a DC, but the rest is up to you and you can just join random ppl and see how it works.
Sometimes it will work, other times it will not. The important thing is to have fun trying to clear a dungeon with different people and different setups everytime, play with your build and try to make it better or just different.
Building my berserker set to have a more DPS-focused setup for PvE, i ran dungeon delves and tried Mad Dragon a few times. The first party got a wipe at 1st boss. I tanked it till they came back, and we killed it. Tried 2nd boss 4 times, couldn't kill it. Too bad. It'll be better next time. Learned something in the process and got fun. The next run, we got to Chartilifax. Different party composition, tried the dragon 3 times, couldn't kill it. Got it to 10% HP, but party got wiped. Almost. Will go better next time. Got joined as the 5th man in a run from a good guild. Ran it 2 times, got what i needed, got fun, and learned a lot. If i feel like running it again, i won't be obsessed by doing it with the same party composition to have it easier. I'll just join a random party. If they are not very good, i'll try to boost their chances sharing my experience and doing my best to kill mobs faster.
It's just that people forgot how to have fun in a mmorpg.
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If dungeons get boring it's just cause you guys rush the content, get it cleared in few days, run dungeons 30000000000000 times obsessed with best composition/ gear score/ fast fast fast run/ farm farm farm to get bilions of AD. Then you complain cause there's not enough new content.
The hell. Learn to play. Go pug and just enjoy playing the game, instead of farming like your life depends on it.
The random party you end up with can't clear the dungeon? Who the hell cares. Call it a day and retry. I got some unlucky runs, some average runs, and some very fast and easy runs being randomly joined in parties from other guilds.
Sorry but no.
No farming, no high level enchants and perfects. No high level enchants and perfects, you get stomped by people in PvP.
It is the responsibility of the developer to make more content for us.
As for "unlucky" runs, my time is precious and I want to be effective. I don't mind undergeared people, I do mind stupidity and inability to follow instructions from more experienced players.
But in the end I want fast runs, to get fast AD, to shorten the way to good gear as much as possible.
Because money I will never spend on this game until it won't be (forbidden word here) any longer, which won't happen.
At this point I'm not sure what to do with respect to not being allowed to voice and fight for my opposing opinion. I was never trying to disrespect or attack anyone in my posts. My goal was merely to provide an opposing viewpoint because I believe PvP does not get the attention it deserves. My goal was to provide evidence to back up my reasonings using the polls where there are no other methods for proving how the community was split.
This has been the only topic I have been interested in truly getting involved in and fighting for because I only play this game for PvP and it was shocking to me to see a post wanting to completely eliminate it. This is why I was so insistent and involved in replying to posts in my thread. It was not a result of me trying to attack any individual, but rather out of me being very interested in trying to prove an opposing view since it was so important to me.
My thread was not solely intended to oppose PvE or deface the idea of PvE, but it was also an attempt to bring attention to and hopefully get some recognition of how many people support and how large the PvP community is.
I am sorry for the forum rules I was ignorant of in my violations. I give up. I will no longer continue to post on this subject in favor of protecting and recognizing the PvP community.
Not sure if it has already been suggested, but wouldn't having separate 'dual-spec' option for PvE and PvP that you automatically switch between solve the vast majority of the issues raised?
sorry, but being in a pug is about as fun as sticking a fork in your own eye
99% cant play and/or want to bug every thing even when abusing bugs/knocking mobs of ledges takes 2x more time than doing legit
dual spec is required in this game, but they probably cant make $$$ out of it so we dont have a chance
No farming, no high level enchants and perfects. No high level enchants and perfects, you get stomped by people in PvP.
It is the responsibility of the developer to make more content for us.
As for "unlucky" runs, my time is precious and I want to be effective. I don't mind undergeared people, I do mind stupidity and inability to follow instructions from more experienced players.
But in the end I want fast runs, to get fast AD, to shorten the way to good gear as much as possible.
Because money I will never spend on this game until it won't be (forbidden word here) any longer, which won't happen.
I do not agree. And this is exactly what i was speaking about.
I don't have perfects or high level enchants (only 7 and 6 rank), and i can guarantee you that i do not get stomped in PvP with my hybrid GWF. And i've seen other players doing good without godly gear. Talking about pug PvP. 90% of your toon effectiveness is build and skill in using it. PvPing with normal armor/weapon enchants and rank 7-6 enchants, if you've the right build and skill, is funny. Sure thing you must at least have the enchants in the right place, but you do not need perfects to be good at PvP.
You also say that "you want to be effective". This is a game. If i have fun, then i've been effective. You need to work like in real life to make your toon rich to...? To get BiS gear and be the best in PvP? And then?
I'm pretty sure that just being relaxed and enjoy the game makes me have 10x times the fun you have playing your way.
I also got fun in planning my build. I didn't want to go for a sentinel godly tank, that's what everyone does. I found a effective hybrid build and i enjoy it a lot. And, with it, i am able to face and fight it out with everyone. Is it the best build ever? I don't know, i don't care, as long as i can have fun with it.
Not sure if it has already been suggested, but wouldn't having separate 'dual-spec' option for PvE and PvP that you automatically switch between solve the vast majority of the issues raised?
A dual spec idea would be amazing. But seeing as how cryptic made the game I don't think that would be implemented anytime this century
U R 2 E Z- SENT IV GWF undefeated 16k GS
FaceRoller- regen recovery TR (put on the shelf for now) 14k GS
Supreme CHAOS - IV GF (put on the shelf for now) 16k GS
White Khalifa- tene/hp/regen CW (retired) 11k GS (tene)
Death From Above- TANK ranger 16kGS
(all halfling everything)
Reading through the original post, I am sorry but I do not agree on anything you have said.
If this game didn't have PvP, a giant portion of the game would quit almost immediately(I would be gone right off the bat).
In a game like Rift for example, I was 50% PvP, 50% PvE. The only reason why my PvE time was 50% was because of the raids. I was in a large, successful end game raiding guild and that's all we did. Raid..and PvP.
Regrettably, the PvE in this game is as easy as my daughters Hello Kitty games.
In my opinion, PvE wise, there is no thing whatsoever keeping non-casual gamers here to play, other then PvP. PvP needs a major overhaul, and most will say it is also easy, but atleast in PvP you can schedule a premade and have an hour long white knuckle fight with another 5 people. A Challenge, that PvE in this game currently doesn't even remotely come close to matching.
I agree with your comparison of a large menu in a restaurant 100%. With that mentality, what I feel they need to do is hire a dedicated Team at Cryptic that does nothing but introduce new PvP content.
As a competitive person, that in itself I feel would make make the company stronger, and the game better. Why? Because you have a Team that makes PvP content, and a Team that makes PvE content working their hardest to make better quality content then the guys across the hall(so to speak) A competition within the work environment of Cryptic Studios, of whose making the more enjoyable content. Competition breeds better quality..period.
What they also need. Is actual Cryptic GMs who moderate Bots, Gold spammers, and find bugs in the LIVE game. I've said it in countless posts, EQ 1 is my best example. GM's would raid with our guild, and test encounters themselves, or watch us test them, pop and repop boss's, or areas, etc to get real time information on current bugs. Things got fixed very quickly. There was no such thing as bugs for months at a time. It didn't exist, because of this.
Bottom line. This is a cash cow game, that is producing less, and less cash, because Cryptic fails to work hard at fixing the problems.
Comments
In game I encounter multiple groups of people doing PvP, which means more people are doing PvP over PvE. That's pretty much the logic I'm hearing, so I will go ahead and use it myself.
You think 2 different polls appealing to two different groups equally to avoid bias is considered bias, yet, you say just because you see people in all zone PvE-ing, that means they are not PvP-ing and therefore more ppl PvE than PvP. How is that more logical than the polls? Lol.... Again, since there are two polls that are each designed with the same content, but to appeal to each group individually, a combination of the two should result in an unbias result.
To prove that the polls are bias, you would need to prove that there is a larger group of individuals who only PvP or PvE that would be voting in BOTH of these polls, which would be hard to do since one poll is PvE based and the other is PvP based with the same content to avoid this.
In the end, polls are representations of an entire group's opinions. Yeah, no poll is perfect because it doesn't include the entire population. How else would we get large scale statistics about a population? Polling has been proven to be the only method for that unless you have a way to specifically ask each individual of a large community.
Even voting is just a poll. Should we stop using elections to put people in power because voting is a false representation when not everyone's opinion is included? Not everyone votes in these election polls.
How do you explain PvP que generally going in 30 seconds to a minute each time I que? That means ~ every 30s-1min 10 people are going into pvp. I would say that is a significant portion of the community. Besides, when you are doing PvE you don't get to see all the people who are doing PvP, so how can you say because you see a lot of people doing PvE that more are doing that than PvP?
Where is the proof that the majority are PvE players? Again, this is a useless argument because there is no proof for either. Hence, this is why things like polls are created, and I don't care if the polls are 100% accurate. They shouldn't be, there are a representation, not an absolute, but the polls do show that there are a significant amount of players who only PvP at least that are involved in the forums. And I would say that more or less the players involved in the forums are a decent distribution of both PvP and PvE players.
PvE in this game is mind-numbingly boring. The real pvp community in this game often set up premade matches which really elevates the challenges of the matches. There is quite a bit of strategy involved in those matches that don't just revolve around who can kill who first.
Where is your proof? I'm on everyday, and I play both PvP and PvE, but I always PvP while wearing a Barney costume. I have one account with three characters, but I only play the third character on alternate Wednesdays. My second character is functionally <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, and he can only count to potato.
My proof is in the forums. I suggest in the near future, you take some time to go into the class forums. You'll see the majority of builds are designed for PvP, by PvP'rs.
Wait, what? You just torpedoed your first point with your last point.
YOU SANK YOUR BATTLESHIP!
Edit: OK I read what these topics are about. Each party wants the developers to focus more on whichever side of the table you're on. The lol part about it. You eliminate 1 part you will most likely get the same attention, and more attention on revenue driving. So no one would win, and 1 would sorely lose. GG
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
do not discuss this moderation notice. instead, send a PM to the community moderators and/or the community managers to discuss it. thanks!
Myself I am (as another postee has said) and "olde <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>" and have a long an memorable association with D&D, I have played many hours (read:years) of P&P. I am what I would call "satisfactorily affluent" and successful, so I do have $$$ to spend, and spend it I do, on this game quite happily. I have no interest whatsoever in PvP and yes I will spend hundreds of Z buying dye kits and I DO dye even my lvl 10 gear just to make one of my toons armor match their horse!
I play for the "Story", I read ALL the 'lore' items and listen to all the dialogues and spend hours looking for matching amours, weapons and enchants. Am I alone? I don't thinks so, judging by the simple fact that we even have a D&D Online game, there is a very large group of people out there that share my love of fantasy and role playing.
I like the idea proposed earlier, that PvP should be linked to, but separated from PvE
I agree that (1) titles can lead to biased results, (2) small sample polls should be taken with a grain of salt, and (3) forum members are not a great representation of the total population. (Caveats)
However, it is still important to interpret the poll information correctly. They should not be interpreted as indicated in the quoted post above. Instead, the two polls should be interpreted as follows:
(a) 43% only enjoy PVE (30% only play PVE)
(b) 40% only play for PVP
(c) 17% enjoy both
(a) calculated as [1 - PVP_POLL_%(Do you pvp for fun?)]
(b) calculated as [1 - PVE_POLL_%(Yes, of course! This is a PVE game.)]
(c) calculated as 1 - a - b
On the caveats above:
The polls do not contradict each other --> suggests minimal bias impact. (1)
The polls were taken at different times --> increases effective sample size. Max(Poll 1, Poll2) <= Sample Size <= Poll1 + Poll2. (2)
The polls are a decent indication of the forum members' gaming behavior. Only Cryptic knows if the forum population is indicative of the total population and/or the total paying population. (3)
Iyon the Dark
I would go so far as having Guilds with their own "towns" (character housing), and the "guild hall" being something like a castle at the center of town. Guards could be volunteered off-line toons in the guild. Raid that. Yes, attack it, siege it, blitz it. Entering the "vault" in the guild hall would mean being able to take everything from 1 page of the beaten guilds bank.
You want some mad fun, do that. Of course anyone could opt-out, soe guilds could simply not be "Ranked" or otherwise pvp.
The closest I have seen to this kind of system is swtor where you get to raid the bases the opposing factions, and attack other faction players while questing. Nothing like cooperating to beat a hard quest boss and then slugging it out afterwards for the treasure.
Get rid of pvp? pfffft.
Jugger Conq GF
....
I hate open world pvp in quest areas. If it game had some special open pvp locations or pvp zones in each area (like WHO) it would be better.
But right now, PvP is where alot of NW's money comes from, Only the PvPers (mostly) buy rank 10 enchants and what not. It's clever,
If they introduced Matchmaking (rankings and titles) It may either:
1. Turn away people who just want to pay money to stomp lowly geared
2. Increase competitiveness and make more people buy higher enchants.
This opens a huge number of problems:
1. more whining from certain classes (I would imagine CWs), More time balancing classes.
2. Top teams being dominated by just 1 class/composition.
But gains benefits:
1. Makes PvP more enjoyable for lower and higher skilled players
2. Gives extra incentive and drive to play through
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
The one thing that is easy to do is make two separate queues. One for premades and one for individual runs. The difference between the two queues will be that in the second one you can't join when in group. If this is implemented and it's working, then a penalty for leavers should be applied.
Other than that, PvP and PvE are two different worlds that both are very interesting in their own particular way. NW's combat system is so good that it's a shame not to invest in both worlds. My opinion is that the only problem right now is the queueing system for individuals, in both aspects of the game.
First, i would point out that the link at the "do you PvE" poll and the comment is misleading.
The poll choices ask if you do PvE, not if you mostly PvE. It's shows not that 70% of people "mostly PvE". It shows that 70% of players PvE too. Which means they may PvE AND PvP. Few are the players who ONLY PvP.
I go both PvP and PvE.
I don't have BiS gear, but i am still above average and can fight even against the players from the top PvP guilds. Simply cause PvP in this game is not only about gear, but about builds and skills too.
PvE is fun too. But i think people get too focused in doing fast runs or make the dungeon run faster and faster. Just pick up a random party and go have fun. Every run will be different this way. Some will go well, some will end with a wipe. Who cares.
My toon is hybrid, PvP focused but also efficient in PvE, using a second gear set i built running dungeons during DD.
My PvP gear is made of heroic duelist full set, rank 7 and 6 enchants, and normal armor and weapon enchants crafted through skirmish runs, AD from dailies and from dungeon loots. Still, as i said, in PvP i never feel outclassed or powerless, not even 1v1ing better geared players.
Only times PvP gets really frustrating is when you end up against a strong premade with a pug team.
If dungeons get boring it's just cause you guys rush the content, get it cleared in few days, run dungeons 30000000000000 times obsessed with best composition/ gear score/ fast fast fast run/ farm farm farm to get bilions of AD. Then you complain cause there's not enough new content.
The hell. Learn to play. Go pug and just enjoy playing the game, instead of farming like your life depends on it.
The random party you end up with can't clear the dungeon? Who the hell cares. Call it a day and retry. I got some unlucky runs, some average runs, and some very fast and easy runs being randomly joined in parties from other guilds.
Only problem of being a lone wolf is that i can't go to GG. Other than that, i don't rush the content and enjoy both PvP and PvE a lot, getting better in the process. Play the game in my free time and spent only few USD for one respec and one appearence change. Nothing else. This game can be funny, you just have to relax and enjoy it, while Learning how to play it and building your toon.
100% agree on everything.
PvP is funny to alternate with PvE. Facing other humans is different everytime. Also, i think that joining pugs against other pugs is funny cause every match is different from the other.
100% agree. This is why my only problem in this game is the queue system when you are solo. If the PvP queues were separated in two types (solo and group join), you would completely avoid pugs vs lolpremades. You would also give the premades the chance to face other premades or partially premades, so they'd really test their skill.
If they somehow fix the PvE dungeon queue system, what you indicate will also be possible. If a DPS is waiting 1 hour per average queue and then end up with a 3 person queue waiting in the campfire, then if the group he finally finds will constantly wipe and finally breaks up...waiting for another hour isn't really fun.
I started using the LFG chat since the dungeon queue system is not relyable. It works only for daily DV since, well, you can make that dungeon with pretty much everything. Done it with a full 5 GWF party one time. Got to tank the boss alone for the last 10 minutes, it was a bit longer but it was a blast and a funny run.
For epics, LFG is better since most people use that chat to form parties and go queue only once the full party is ready. That's why queue on epics thakes so long. For a DPS it's sure harder than for a DC or CW to find a party, but not that hard.
Thing is, people should stop being obsessed by best party composition to clear the dungeon faster, experience, gear score, exc... just to farmfarmfarmfarm the same dungeon over and over and lootlootlootlootloot.
Relax. Build a regular party. You sure need a DC, but the rest is up to you and you can just join random ppl and see how it works.
Sometimes it will work, other times it will not. The important thing is to have fun trying to clear a dungeon with different people and different setups everytime, play with your build and try to make it better or just different.
Building my berserker set to have a more DPS-focused setup for PvE, i ran dungeon delves and tried Mad Dragon a few times. The first party got a wipe at 1st boss. I tanked it till they came back, and we killed it. Tried 2nd boss 4 times, couldn't kill it. Too bad. It'll be better next time. Learned something in the process and got fun. The next run, we got to Chartilifax. Different party composition, tried the dragon 3 times, couldn't kill it. Got it to 10% HP, but party got wiped. Almost. Will go better next time. Got joined as the 5th man in a run from a good guild. Ran it 2 times, got what i needed, got fun, and learned a lot. If i feel like running it again, i won't be obsessed by doing it with the same party composition to have it easier. I'll just join a random party. If they are not very good, i'll try to boost their chances sharing my experience and doing my best to kill mobs faster.
It's just that people forgot how to have fun in a mmorpg.
Sorry but no.
No farming, no high level enchants and perfects. No high level enchants and perfects, you get stomped by people in PvP.
It is the responsibility of the developer to make more content for us.
As for "unlucky" runs, my time is precious and I want to be effective. I don't mind undergeared people, I do mind stupidity and inability to follow instructions from more experienced players.
But in the end I want fast runs, to get fast AD, to shorten the way to good gear as much as possible.
Because money I will never spend on this game until it won't be (forbidden word here) any longer, which won't happen.
This has been the only topic I have been interested in truly getting involved in and fighting for because I only play this game for PvP and it was shocking to me to see a post wanting to completely eliminate it. This is why I was so insistent and involved in replying to posts in my thread. It was not a result of me trying to attack any individual, but rather out of me being very interested in trying to prove an opposing view since it was so important to me.
My thread was not solely intended to oppose PvE or deface the idea of PvE, but it was also an attempt to bring attention to and hopefully get some recognition of how many people support and how large the PvP community is.
I am sorry for the forum rules I was ignorant of in my violations. I give up. I will no longer continue to post on this subject in favor of protecting and recognizing the PvP community.
99% cant play and/or want to bug every thing even when abusing bugs/knocking mobs of ledges takes 2x more time than doing legit
dual spec is required in this game, but they probably cant make $$$ out of it so we dont have a chance
I do not agree. And this is exactly what i was speaking about.
I don't have perfects or high level enchants (only 7 and 6 rank), and i can guarantee you that i do not get stomped in PvP with my hybrid GWF. And i've seen other players doing good without godly gear. Talking about pug PvP. 90% of your toon effectiveness is build and skill in using it. PvPing with normal armor/weapon enchants and rank 7-6 enchants, if you've the right build and skill, is funny. Sure thing you must at least have the enchants in the right place, but you do not need perfects to be good at PvP.
You also say that "you want to be effective". This is a game. If i have fun, then i've been effective. You need to work like in real life to make your toon rich to...? To get BiS gear and be the best in PvP? And then?
I'm pretty sure that just being relaxed and enjoy the game makes me have 10x times the fun you have playing your way.
I also got fun in planning my build. I didn't want to go for a sentinel godly tank, that's what everyone does. I found a effective hybrid build and i enjoy it a lot. And, with it, i am able to face and fight it out with everyone. Is it the best build ever? I don't know, i don't care, as long as i can have fun with it.
It's not like i'm paid to be the best.
A dual spec idea would be amazing. But seeing as how cryptic made the game I don't think that would be implemented anytime this century
FaceRoller- regen recovery TR (put on the shelf for now) 14k GS
Supreme CHAOS - IV GF (put on the shelf for now) 16k GS
White Khalifa- tene/hp/regen CW (retired) 11k GS (tene)
Death From Above- TANK ranger 16kGS
(all halfling everything)
Proud rank 6 of: <Enemy Team>
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If this game didn't have PvP, a giant portion of the game would quit almost immediately(I would be gone right off the bat).
In a game like Rift for example, I was 50% PvP, 50% PvE. The only reason why my PvE time was 50% was because of the raids. I was in a large, successful end game raiding guild and that's all we did. Raid..and PvP.
Regrettably, the PvE in this game is as easy as my daughters Hello Kitty games.
In my opinion, PvE wise, there is no thing whatsoever keeping non-casual gamers here to play, other then PvP. PvP needs a major overhaul, and most will say it is also easy, but atleast in PvP you can schedule a premade and have an hour long white knuckle fight with another 5 people. A Challenge, that PvE in this game currently doesn't even remotely come close to matching.
I agree with your comparison of a large menu in a restaurant 100%. With that mentality, what I feel they need to do is hire a dedicated Team at Cryptic that does nothing but introduce new PvP content.
As a competitive person, that in itself I feel would make make the company stronger, and the game better. Why? Because you have a Team that makes PvP content, and a Team that makes PvE content working their hardest to make better quality content then the guys across the hall(so to speak) A competition within the work environment of Cryptic Studios, of whose making the more enjoyable content. Competition breeds better quality..period.
What they also need. Is actual Cryptic GMs who moderate Bots, Gold spammers, and find bugs in the LIVE game. I've said it in countless posts, EQ 1 is my best example. GM's would raid with our guild, and test encounters themselves, or watch us test them, pop and repop boss's, or areas, etc to get real time information on current bugs. Things got fixed very quickly. There was no such thing as bugs for months at a time. It didn't exist, because of this.
Bottom line. This is a cash cow game, that is producing less, and less cash, because Cryptic fails to work hard at fixing the problems.