why does nwo hate group play so much?

erebus2075

i was wondering why the game is designed to hate group play so much up until lvl 60.

so i have been wanting to pull friends into the game and play with them but everything there is to do while lvling is 100% intended for solo play making it rediculessly boring for group play (extremely easy and almost no rewards), the only group play there is which have the slightest challange is dungeons but those are so punishing (time vs rewards) its not even fun:
what i mean is that from a 45mi+- dungeon you get maybe 25% of a lvls xp,this is like nothing, i could make this in less then 15min by simply soloing outside the dungeon.
then you can say "hey you get the best gear for your lvl in the dungeons" well first of drop chance is low, secondly the gear is REALLY no where near worth the time, and thirdly it simply just multiply the issue outside of dungeons by making the content even more easy.

i havent been able to find a way to play with friends, helping them lvl and having fun together while still being challenged by the content.
the content is simply rediculessly easy and the little content there is which is minded on groups give next to 0 reward for a lvling player....

is there anything i am missing or does nwo just HATE multiplayers?. (dont say pvp, we dont want to pvp :P )

best regards
us.

ps: what we would like is some hard content where it feels like there is a reason we dont solo it and where the reward vs time is actually as good as the solo content (meaning we can lvl and get the same gear as fast as solo content).

edit: in reality i blame the campanions since they are the reason you can solo everything without any issue at all, without them it would be a much better game for multiplayer, but since they dont take any xp or give you extra reward for not using them, it would be like removing your gear to make it harder for yourself to not use them, which would just be stupid as fck

vorphied

1. This thread probably belongs in General Discussion or Gameplay.

2. Don't blame companions; non-augment companions have virtually no impact on solo play past low levels (not to mention being generally undesirable in group play), and even augment companions, while powerful, are not necessary for reasonably efficient solo play.

3. The fact that dungeons and skirmishes have no re-entry timer makes them ideally suited to group play, but yes, they aren't suited for leveling. For better or worse, leveling to 60 is best done alone except possibly if XPing through PvP.

4. On the bright side, the time it takes to get to 60 is so short that the above point is virtually moot.

mehguy138

I always used to say that this game is antisocial. You get the best when you play solo. All content except skirmishes/dungeons from 1lvl to 60 is soloable, contests in zones are designed for solo, you get big disadvantage from being in a party, skill nodes 1 time use, most of the limited time events also don't require a party.

melodywhr

there's a lot of things you can do if you have friends as new players. you can start a new character and level up with them. you can assist them in their questing.

if you're a new player, you can make friends in the zones you're leveling up in. you can join a guild that's friendly to newbies. or you can invite a friend or two to come and level up with you.

if you don't want to do any of that, then that's your prerogative... but i think you're missing the entire social aspect of game play.

erebus2075

melodywhr wrote: »

there's a lot of things you can do if you have friends as new players. you can start a new character and level up with them. you can assist them in their questing.

if you're a new player, you can make friends in the zones you're leveling up in. you can join a guild that's friendly to newbies. or you can invite a friend or two to come and level up with you.

if you don't want to do any of that, then that's your prerogative... but to sit there and complain about why neverwinter doesn't support group play until level 60 when this is an MMO and there are plenty of options at your fingertips... doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.

happy for your answer, sad you didnt read what i said

i did start a new char with each one of them and are lvling up with them but the content is so rediculessly easy when you are two players its just not fun, its like holding down the left mouse and W for the 40+hours it takes to get 60.

all the dungeons gives rediculessly low xp and redoing them for gear is absolutely useless (gear will be outdated fast and there is absolutely no need for it for ANY content there is while lvling).

foundries even when designed for more players seems extremely easy and therefore becomes boring very fast, the rewards on foundries is at least somewhats better then dungeons but still low compared to simply solo rushing through the easy mode which is all other content.
(and the amount of foundries designed for more then 1 players seems to be counted on one hand )

pvp, is fun for a very short while before 60, but when you play to be intertained by content(quest, story, pve in general), pvp is just not what you want and there is a bilzillion games which does pvp houndreads of times better then nwo and which have actual good endgame pvp (in other words if you want pvp you shouldnt be playing nwo becouse the pvp at endgame is just very very bad).

the issue isnt that we dont have friends to play with but that the game is PUNISHING US HARDCORE! FOR PLAYING TOGETHER, it's boring due to the fact there is no pve scaling on player amount and everything is designed for solo players which have never played games before so even as solo its easy/medium at best, being 2-3 people its just chawdropping boring and rolfstomp.

so PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do tell me where neverwinter support or reward ANY type of group play before lvl 60?.
i would REALLY love to know since getting people to stick with the game for the 40+ hours lvling takes while the game is doing everything it can to punish you for not soloing is Really hard

melodywhr

erebus2075 wrote: »

happy for your answer, sad you didnt read what i said

you also jumped on my reply right before i changed it.

melodywhr wrote:

but i think you're missing the entire social aspect of game play.

but that's okay. you can't please everyone 100% of the time.

erebus2075

melodywhr wrote: »

you also jumped on my reply right before i changed it.

but that's okay. you can't please everyone 100% of the time.

i must be missing something at least what social aspect of "tiresome boredom due to the difficulty lvling not scaling and Zero content made for lvling with a group" is it i am missing?
the problem here is that i WANT to be social and i have ALOT more fun when i can play with friends and we can do stuff together, but when everything get completely ROLFSTOMPED and we can literally close our eyes in every fight and still win, then the fun of the game dissapier completely...

and thats what i dont get...
why does NWO HATE people playing together while they lvl?
why punish us so hard for wanting to play with other people?.
why making the VERY little group content there is give 1/4 of the xp/hour of the solo content?
why not having some kind of scale for pve or some kind of content which at least rewards people for lvling together?
or at the very least give them the same xp/hour as soloing would? or just close, i mean 1/4 of the xp/hour is just rediculess -.- ....

i really dont get it and its dam.n sad that when playing with others and lvling with them everything have to be so extremely boring and easy or have to get 1/4 xp/hour and redoing the same dungeon a half ton times(around 3-4times for a full lvl estimated at 45min=2,25-3hours for 1 lvl) (and for it to be challenging while lvling you will have to do it with 1-3 people less then a full group(depending on lvl range/dungeon) which is even more aggrevating and give even less of a reward/hour)

bioshrike

The problem is that I should be able to take my level 60 character and scale down to my friend's lower-level character. I shouldn't have to join them on my 60, make their content trivial, and get relatively worthless rewards for doing so. Rolling a new character also isn't feasible, especially if I don't have any free character slots, or if I have multiple friends w/ alts spread across the level range...

aunlae

I find a group of two is still within the area of fun, you get that "We are HAMSTER" feeling without losing entirely all the thought involved. Anything more than two and you're kinda just walking through without a care in the world - though sometimes you seem to be in the perfect place to pull 2-3 groups at once on accident, and those times when soloing things can get dicey fast.

It would be nice to drop down to the level of your friends and tag along again if they need any help. Though, you'd still have high level skills, not sure how they'd do it without requiring you to pick stuff again.

Dungeons are so dependant on having the exact number of people, that when someone leaves you're pretty much against the wall - and if two people leave the party is over. The game won't scale it, and currently cannot invite other people in.

There must be some way of making group play viable, as I find even if it is available, you're better off just following someone around because then you don't have to play the reward share game, everyone gets their own stuff.

As for loneliness during the solo-march, I find the whole, going into dungeons, coming out, going different places makes it hard to keep a conversation going in the zone, and I haven't found an easy way to do lengthy private message sessions with people, as it seems like you have to type all their /tell information in every single time.

sockmunkey

There are two problems that are causing this whole issue.

One, there is no way to scale up or down levels to group up with friends of any level. A sidekicking system similar to CO is much needed here.

And two, none of the solo dungeons scale to a party. (With the minor exception of some of the new stuff in Sharandar) They are strictly single player instances. So if you go in with even a small group, they get laughably easy. There needs to be a mechanic to scale the solo instances to the number of players in the group.

Cryptic has proven they can do both in CO with their engine. So having such basic features lacking in their newest gem of a game is just a little disappointing and inexcusable.

overddrive

erebus2075 wrote: »

i was wondering why the game is designed to hate group play so much up until lvl 60.

so i have been wanting to pull friends into the game and play with them but everything there is to do while lvling is 100% intended for solo play making it rediculessly boring for group play (extremely easy and almost no rewards), the only group play there is which have the slightest challange is dungeons but those are so punishing (time vs rewards) its not even fun:
what i mean is that from a 45mi+- dungeon you get maybe 25% of a lvls xp,this is like nothing, i could make this in less then 15min by simply soloing outside the dungeon.
then you can say "hey you get the best gear for your lvl in the dungeons" well first of drop chance is low, secondly the gear is REALLY no where near worth the time, and thirdly it simply just multiply the issue outside of dungeons by making the content even more easy.

i havent been able to find a way to play with friends, helping them lvl and having fun together while still being challenged by the content.
the content is simply rediculessly easy and the little content there is which is minded on groups give next to 0 reward for a lvling player....

is there anything i am missing or does nwo just HATE multiplayers?. (dont say pvp, we dont want to pvp :P )

best regards
us.

ps: what we would like is some hard content where it feels like there is a reason we dont solo it and where the reward vs time is actually as good as the solo content (meaning we can lvl and get the same gear as fast as solo content).

edit: in reality i blame the campanions since they are the reason you can solo everything without any issue at all, without them it would be a much better game for multiplayer, but since they dont take any xp or give you extra reward for not using them, it would be like removing your gear to make it harder for yourself to not use them, which would just be stupid as fck

You are not going to get "what we would like" because each of the hundreds of thousands of players have a "what we would like", and as was sad, "you can't please em all". This is really a gripe and troll thread but there is a legitimate issue in actually FINDING solid groups in NWO to run with regularly, but that is not what you are talking about.

You do realize that up until you are level 60 BiS, there will always be harder content. Why on earth, knowing that you breeze through level appropriate areas, would you continue to play in level appropriate areas? Go to areas a few levels higher than your toons, duh.

kozi001

One thing come to my mind.
Maybe in NWO a lots of ppl is coming from its predecessor Neverwiter Nights or other single player games and not from Mmos.
I never played any other "typical" Mmo just single player rpgs. I had to learn to how play in groups and took guild and guildies needs before my own...

vrtesseract

My hope is with what they are learning with sharendar and call to arms they may eventually add a decent side kicking and scaling system in this game. possible also a way to scale solo content up or down(changing the exp/rewards as well for balence) to accommodate a greater range of player comfort.

esleff

melodywhr wrote: »

there's a lot of things you can do if you have friends as new players. you can start a new character and level up with them. you can assist them in their questing.

if you're a new player, you can make friends in the zones you're leveling up in. you can join a guild that's friendly to newbies. or you can invite a friend or two to come and level up with you.

if you don't want to do any of that, then that's your prerogative... but i think you're missing the entire social aspect of game play.

LOl good job missing the point

beckylunatic

overddrive wrote: »

You do realize that up until you are level 60 BiS, there will always be harder content. Why on earth, knowing that you breeze through level appropriate areas, would you continue to play in level appropriate areas? Go to areas a few levels higher than your toons, duh.

Yup, I've been doing a lot of duo questing because it is more fun than soloing. Just skip ahead until you find something appropriately challenging. The only drawback is you'll have to wait to equip anything that drops.

blueboxer

beckylunatic wrote: »

Yup, I've been doing a lot of duo questing because it is more fun than soloing. Just skip ahead until you find something appropriately challenging. The only drawback is you'll have to wait to equip anything that drops.

Yeah, this. I've solo leveled a couple of characters, but most of my characters leveled grouping every single quest. I just bundle the stuff I can't use yet and mail it to myself with a mail subject of what level I can use it at.

Allowing the Foundry quests to have a manual adjustment to level instead of automatically doing it (and HAMSTER up pretty badly) would be a huge improvement.

A sidekick system would be nice, but the lack of it isn't ruining my fun. I've brought multiple friends into the game and I just make a character for each group. The only problem is Invocation lets some of my characters out-level my friends who don't invoke daily, and I have to remember not to invoke on those :-)

erebus2075

overddrive wrote: »

You are not going to get "what we would like" because each of the hundreds of thousands of players have a "what we would like", and as was sad, "you can't please em all". This is really a gripe and troll thread but there is a legitimate issue in actually FINDING solid groups in NWO to run with regularly, but that is not what you are talking about.

You do realize that up until you are level 60 BiS, there will always be harder content. Why on earth, knowing that you breeze through level appropriate areas, would you continue to play in level appropriate areas? Go to areas a few levels higher than your toons, duh.

becouse going into high lvl area's will not reward you with any extra xp and will have zero quest to do becouse of your lvl, meaning the xp/hour is as laugheble when compared to xp/hour soloing. its the same issue as when doing dungeons...
thats why..

too everyone else which is saying a scaling system: yes i agree a good scaling like gw2 (but still make it harder since you are too powerfull when downscaled in gw2) would do major for the game, but i dont believe that will ever come and you would still have the problem that unless dungeons scale to the number of players it is still laughebly easy or rewardless.

it is just a wonder why in an mmo you would design 100% around solo play and punish people for grouping before max lvl o.O

beckylunatic

You have quests to do in areas that are above your level. I have no idea why you'd think you wouldn't.

All zone quests are always available, though if you are overlevelled you need to go around and talk to all the NPCs to find out which ones have things for you to do, as they have no markers (gosh, it's like playing games before quest NPC markers were invented). Maybe it's the same if you're underlevelled, though I don't recall it being so, and like I said, I adventure in zones that are above my level pretty much all the time while duoing. No trouble finding the quests.

The only content you absolutely cannot access if you are not the right level are skirmishes, because they can only be entered through the queue.

jeffro9000

aunlae wrote: »

I haven't found an easy way to do lengthy private message sessions with people, as it seems like you have to type all their /tell information in every single time.

/r will respond to your last pm
you can also right click player names in the chat window and select "send private message"

sephirothkirk

bioshrike wrote: »

The problem is that I should be able to take my level 60 character and scale down to my friend's lower-level character. I shouldn't have to join them on my 60, make their content trivial, and get relatively worthless rewards for doing so. Rolling a new character also isn't feasible, especially if I don't have any free character slots, or if I have multiple friends w/ alts spread across the level range...

This is utopia. What do you expect? You want to get your over-leveled char to help a friend with content way below your gearscore and you still want it to be difficult? That's why you're -helping- him. No game offers you this kind of possibility. Try doing stuff like this in any MMORPG or action RPG. Take your level 60 character from Diablo III to help a guy at level 15. You're going to one-shot everything.

There's an advantage in Neverwinter tho: the underleveled char actually gets experience from quests and monsters. Some games punish you for having an over-level char and dont event grant you rewards/XP. If you really want it to be hard, just make another char to help him level.

Just to reach a conclusion: imagine the game put you at the same level as your friend because you're partying up with him. Your actual level is 60, but now you're 15. You're still not going to get anything useful after helping him, because you'll still be 45 levels over the content.

klangeddin

I think the point of this thread is asking for an increase to EXP, gold and better rewards from levelling group content.
I can also agree with the fact that doing normal instances during levelling may be nice the first time around, but on alts feels like a waste of time.

erebus2075

beckylunatic wrote: »

You have quests to do in areas that are above your level. I have no idea why you'd think you wouldn't.

All zone quests are always available, though if you are overlevelled you need to go around and talk to all the NPCs to find out which ones have things for you to do, as they have no markers (gosh, it's like playing games before quest NPC markers were invented). Maybe it's the same if you're underlevelled, though I don't recall it being so, and like I said, I adventure in zones that are above my level pretty much all the time while duoing. No trouble finding the quests.

The only content you absolutely cannot access if you are not the right level are skirmishes, because they can only be entered through the queue.

you only got quest available in a small lvl range over you, meaning "within your lvl range" else you cant accept the quest so thats not true.
not sure if you can enter the dungeons but again why would you want that since the xp/hour is sht in dungeons

klangeddin wrote: »

I think the point of this thread is asking for an increase to EXP, gold and better rewards from levelling group content.
I can also agree with the fact that doing normal instances during levelling may be nice the first time around, but on alts feels like a waste of time.

basicly yes.
increasing the reward for group content, weather it is going to higher lvl area's or dungeons. so that the xp/hour is not crazily decreased by being in a group (not rolfstomping solo content), while still being able to do something fun and challanging

beckylunatic

erebus2075 wrote: »

you only got quest available in a small lvl range over you, meaning "within your lvl range" else you cant accept the quest so thats not true.
not sure if you can enter the dungeons but again why would you want that since the xp/hour is sht in dungeons

Dude. I know what I'm talking about. I did the Tower district this week with a TR in her 50s because I skipped it and I'm being completist. No problem whatsoever picking up all the quests. Likewise I've had no problems skipping ahead zones while playing grouped and picking up all the quests.

You can enter a dungeon by walking in the door any time you want, with any party, but clearly *you* don't want to. I'm just pointing out that the only content that is strictly level-locked is skirmishes.

melodywhr

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