test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Devs and all players: To value Role Playing, let us revise the name of "Life Steal"

2»

Comments

  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Thanks for reminding. My main language is not English...

    Have you considered that this could be why very few other players have this issue with the word "steal" that you're expressing? Not to say that your English isn't great, but it's possible that your definition of the word is too narrow or too focused on the negative.

    Yes, most definitions imply some sort of wrongful act, but at the basic level, stealing can be taking or appropriating use of anything that does not belong to you. Arguably, another creature's life force does not belong to you. In most high fantasy, that critter being evil makes it okay to do pretty much whatever you need to survive as long as it isn't excessively sadistic.

    It's not called "Life Take" because that sounds clunky. "Life Appropriation" sounds silly. "Life Replenishment" sounds more like "regeneration", or if you are replenishing life by taking a portion of damage that you inflict, it's still "Life Steal" anyway.

    I think another poster mentioned or alluded to this, but in D&D, life-stealing mechanics aren't always inherently evil. Negative energy could save lives or allow good creatures to maintain their own lives, and positive energy could kill good characters or benefit evil ones. They were just forces. The manner of use was most important.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • haelrahaelra Member Posts: 220 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Wow.

    As a roleplayer, I don't consider UI text descriptions of items, powers, effects, or even their names to be in my roleplay. Try this experiment: Go into the zoom mode, zoom in real close on the item you're worried about, and see if it has the words "Life Steal" engraved on it. None of mine do. An item may have an effect which we as players describe in the game mechanics with that term, but there's no reason at all one has to include it into your roleplay. Maybe your character calls it the "Benevolent hastening of otherwise horrifically slow and bloody demise which simultaneously grants the wielder happiness and health as a righteous reward for her mercy." effect. I wouldn't let my roleplay caught up by the mechanical names and descriptions of things.

    Regarding the alignment questions; I'm sooo glad there's no overt alignment built into NW; all those discussions go nowhere.
  • serengettiserengetti Member Posts: 77
    edited November 2013
    This is a dumb and egoistic idea, and should not even be considered by anyone with a healthy mind.

    Not to mention this has nothing to do with the preview shard.
  • nameexpirednameexpired Member Posts: 1,282 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I did not read the whole thread, just want to mention this:
    In game and on items the necromantic abitily is called "Life Steal".

    On the Gateway's Character Sheet of your toon the name is "Health Steal" (lower right part of your paperdoll and the item it is wearing)
    Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
  • rabbinicusrabbinicus Member Posts: 1,822 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Oh, this is bloody fantastic.

    First Ambi, Superman is not "lawful stupid." He suscribes to a particularly rigid code of ethics in which for him, taking a life is an unquestionably evil act. This is reasonable given the fact that (barring a truly insane amount of Kryptonite that someone is on earth, or Richard Pryor synthesizing some using tar...) he is in effect unstoppable. Therefore were he to begin taking lives, it would be an exceedingly slick and steep slippery slope slope. This seems to be more akin to the moral framework of the OP where any form of stealing is evil - but killing evil monsters isn't.

    Second, to the OP, I am going to suggest that you familiarize yourself with the writings of Soren Kierkegaard and in particular his work "Fear and Trembling." It deals with the subject of teleological suspension of the ethical, in which acts that might seem evil are not because they are divinely commanded. This excuse doesn't work in realms where God isn't distinctly manifest, but in the Forgotten Realms there are many gods who interact quite directly with their followers. Paladins of Torm are no less lawful and good for slaughtering Zhentarim and then using the Zhents magic to become more powerful champions of their god. This includes the use of necromantic and negative energy based magic, including life-stealing weapons.

    Otherwise, you're really kind of hosed here. The lizardmen you slaughter in Pirate's Skyhold aren't evil, but you're invading their territory. The Nashers aren't necessarily evil nor are many of the Aberrants. So being lawful good and using life-stealing weapons isn't in any way incompatible, as long as you're using those weapons against evil.
    The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.


  • thebrimanthebriman Member Posts: 218 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Wow, I sure wasn't expecting Kierkegaard references and other philosophical musings first thing Monday morning on the NW forums lol. Taking me back to my college days, rabbinicus.

    To the OP, I would restate a question that ambi threw out: do you have an issue with your lawful good character using the life steal effect regardless of its name? I mean, do you feel that it is lawful good for your character to gain sustenance and health by devouring another living creature's life force? Even if it were called "Holy hug", I tend to think that a true lawful good character would be opposed to using such a vampiric ability regardless of its name.

    You mentioned in one of your posts that you feel it's unfair that other non-good characters have access to this ability while you, as a good character, try to avoid gear with this stat. However, isn't that really part of what it means to play a good character? Forgoing the path to easy power in order to stick to your principles? In my mind, the name life steal fits the ability perfectly. Looking for a more "good sounding" name for something that is, IMHO, a fairly evil act, really just sounds like your character looking for a moral loophole.
  • haelrahaelra Member Posts: 220 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    In our real world, we generally use logic and argue that good acts/intentions are those that generally promote well being and happiness. Evil is basically those who're willfully promoting some very narrow interest at a greater expense of the general good. It's easy to argue all this, because there's no law of the universe that turns these judgments into mathematical questions that have definitive and incontrovertible solutions. Reasonable people may still disagree even after fully explaining their positions.

    In these fantasy settings, it's not at all clear that one can argue that way, depending on the given premises. For example, I've seen this definition: "Good is the awesome holy energy that radiates from the celestial planes and crushes evil." (One can substiture the other alignments here at need, with a bit of variant word choice). This sort of interpretation, if it's being used in the game, doesn't allow one to make the claim "Killing without cause is always evil". Good an evil become energy that can exist, and be in opposition, even without there being acts, or intention, or even self-awareness -- "We must destroy that stone, because it is Evil." Further, it can lead to being forced to decide whether an "Evil" must be found and destroyed even though lives of the party will be risked, and even if other innocents might be put in jeopardy or even killed along the way.

    It isn't the sort of judgment most of us would make in our world; but in a fantasy setting, it can work. The important point here is that the players agree on how they're using or not using alignment -- it can get messy otherwise.
  • tickdofftickdoff Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    No role-player worth his salt would get all bunched up over the name of a power in an MMO. Simply role-play a different reason for the effect or avoid using it. (but, if you do not use it, you no longer have any grounds to complain about that power being "OP")

    I used to play CoH (City of Heroes), there were a LOT of different power combinations that you could play, from fire, ice, electricity to dark energy, swords, guns, mental powers and more. However, some people were unable to make a Hero (or Villain) that matched their "concept". In those cases the role player would simply write a description for their character that explained that they were not actually a "dark/energy Defender" but the "dark" powers were actually holy light, as were the energy blasts (which were blue). Eventually full spectrum power customization was put in which gave players many more options for the look of their powers, but even before that the true role-players did not let that stop them.

    I do NOT support the change to Life Steal, it should retain it's current name. However, I would be supportive of the ability to rename powers on your "Character Sheet" provided that the change was only the name, and that the change was only seen by the player in control of the character. (I would also say that this would be a VERY LOW PRIORITY if it ever did happen, and I would not hold my breath)
  • abell39abell39 Member Posts: 1,175 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    If it bugs you that much, just RP that "lifesteal" is a misnomer that uneducated common people gave it that stuck (in the same way that we have "pineapples" which are not apples nor do they grow on pine trees, but it's a common name that stuck) and explain its "real" name/effect however you want. Same goes for Steal Time if that's still bothering you -- say that it's actually accelerating you independently of others, but to outsiders it looks as though it's "stealing" time from others so that's what it's been called and the name stuck.
    Kerensa Loreweaver, level 60 DC | Rilla Turtledove, level 60 CW | Calvin Meriwether, level 60 TR
    Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
  • haelrahaelra Member Posts: 220 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    tickdoff wrote: »

    I used to play CoH (City of Heroes), there were a LOT of different power combinations that you could play, from fire, ice, electricity to dark energy, swords, guns, mental powers and more. However, some people were unable to make a Hero (or Villain) that matched their "concept". In those cases the role player would simply write a description for their character that explained that they were not actually a "dark/energy Defender" but the "dark" powers were actually holy light, as were the energy blasts (which were blue). Eventually full spectrum power customization was put in which gave players many more options for the look of their powers, but even before that the true role-players did not let that stop them.

    Some of the "dark" powers were kind of gritty looking; and once people could recolor them, there were some very convincing "sand" powers role-played off brown and tan colored "dark".

    And wow, I still miss that game. :(

    The only limit on what you can roleplay is your imagination; and my experience is that most roleplayers will happily go along with whatever reasonable way you choose to explain your abilities.
Sign In or Register to comment.