New Enchant System

ott0maddux

What are other people's thoughts on this "upgrade". Personally I feel it might be a gamebreaker, it's that bad.

tang56

It's going to be a massive dividing line between the "haves" and "have-nots".

In this case, the haves are people who are already mostly geared in rank 7-10 enchants with greater or perfect armor/weapon enchantments and don't need to fuse any more. The have-nots are the people who just got to L60 and are trying to gear up to compete with the haves...and failing miserably because the new refinement system effectively gates off high level enchants to all but the very wealthy(both in AD and enchants, since you need spare enchants or stones to rank up other enchants).

chocobofarmer

The big question mark is how difficult it is to get the mark of potency/union or other refining stones for upgrading enchantments. The new system has less than half the require amount of enchantments of a particular type to upgrade it to the next rank, so it is possible that the new system will make getting high end enchantments cheaper. But again, it all depends on what the price will be for marks of potency and other refining stones.

neskolf

Is there a link to the specs for the new enchant system? I haven't found any details on it, so any help is greatly appreciated.

rapticor

Yeah people really need to test this out on the preview server and give Cryptic their feedback on the Official feedback thread. Personally I like some aspects, and I don't even mind the AD cost, but you shouldn't have the same failure rates you do now along with it now costing AD. Which you lose if the upgrade fails.

The unslotting for gold is a good change.

And yeah there is the question on the catalysts. Where do these come from? Are they just drops? Will they be purchasable from a vendor? And why does Cryptic keep adding new things to suck up inventory space? Other than to sell bags of course.

j0shi82

First of all: Unslotting enchantments becomes dirt cheap and I actually have like ~20 items with R7/R8s in that I don't use anymore and planned to unslot. I will definitely keep the ADs and unslot them under the new system.

Under the old system you need 4.67*5.50*6.33*7.00*8.00 = 9105 R4 enchants for a R9. The actual number isn't quite as high as you want to use wards starting with R6s or R7s, but for comparisons sake it's fine.

Under the new system you need 4.00*4.00*4.00*6.00*6.00 = 2304 R4 enchants for a R9, but also 672k ADs. So the number of enchants needed is decreased, but you now spend a sizable amount of ADs to refine. That basically means that you'll need a Coalward (given the current course) for every Refinement starting with R8 or you'll use more AD in the process.

I sincerely hope you can grind for Catalysts... the system got a lot more complicated and I'm completely lost why they had to add an additional component to make this whole thing work.

ott0maddux

chocobofarmer wrote: »

The big question mark is how difficult it is to get the mark of potency/union or other refining stones for upgrading enchantments. The new system has less than half the require amount of enchantments of a particular type to upgrade it to the next rank, so it is possible that the new system will make getting high end enchantments cheaper. But again, it all depends on what the price will be for marks of potency and other refining stones.

I think you are misinformed. It took 10 rank 4 enchants to get a 60% chance to make a single rank 5

tang56

j0shi82 wrote: »

Under the new system you need 4.00*4.00*4.00*6.00*6.00 = 2304 R4 enchants for a R9, but also 672k ADs. So the number of enchants needed is decreased, but you now spend a sizable amount of ADs to refine.

You sure that's right? I've been seeing the required RP increase significantly as the level of the enchant increases. I haven't tested properly(not enough spare high level enchants), but for weapon/armor enchants at least, you seem to need around 4 to lesser, 4 to normal then 5 to greater and 5 for perfect...all of the same rank as the enchant you're trying to rank up.

...Bah...this new system makes my head hurt.

melodywhr

i don't think it's ready for prime time. unsocketing enchants for AD was cheaper... even though under the new system you can upgrade your enchants while they're socketed. you can also add any enchant to increase your points so all those R4 training runes just got upped in value. it's complicated and it cost more and we're still going to be limited to refining 24k rAD per day.

str8slayer

Seems like Cryptic figured the current system was too simple and easy to progress in so they're adding a few more variables to the mix. Looks like they're trying to create additional money/resource sinks from what I've read so far.

Expect enchantment prices to double after this goes live, especially if the catalysts are Z store/lockbox items only.

j0shi82

Amount of matching R4s (accumulative) consumed in refining process:

4 (4) for a R4 (1 base, 3 for the RPs)
12 (16) for a R5
48 (64) for a R6
192 (256) for a R7 (128 to refine the R7 itself and 64 R4s for the R7 Catalyst)
640 (896) for a R8 (384 to refine the R8 itself and 256 R4s for the R8 Catalyst)
2048 (2944) for a R9 (1152 to refine the R9 itself and 896 R4s for the R9 Catalyst)

Amount of matching Shards (accumulative) consumed in refining process:

4 (4) for a Shard (1 base, 3 for the RPs)
12 (16) for a Lesser (8 to refine the Lesser itself and one 4 Shards for the Lesser Catalyst)
40 (56) for a Normal (24 to refine the Normal itself and 16 Shards for the Normal Catalyst)
128 (184) for a Greater (72 to refine the Greater itself and 56 Shards for the Greater Catalysts)

ADs [without marks/wards] (accumulative [without marks/wards]) needed for upgrade:

2.335 [1.000] (2.335 [1.000]) for a R5
- (1.000 + [2.67x LMark 1.335])
36.000 AD [5.000] (38.335 [6.000]) for a R6
- (5.000 + [1x Mark 25.000 + 1.50 PWards 6.000])
84.320 AD [25.000] (122.655 [31.000]) for a R7
- (25.000 + [2x Mark 50.000 + 2.33 PWards 9.320])
284.655 AD [81.000] (407.310 [122.000]) for a R8
- (50.000 + [1x GMark 100.000 + 3.00 PWards 12.000] + Catalyst R7 122.655 [31.000])
698.310 AD [197.000] (1.105.620 [319.000]) for a R9
- (75.000 + [2x GMark 200.000 + 4.00 PWards 16.000] + Catalyst R8 407.310 [122.000])
1.441.620 AD [419.000] (2.547.240 [738.000]) for a R10
- (100.000 + [2x GMark 200.000 + 9.00 PWards 36.000] + Catalyst R9 1.105.620 [319.000])

130.000 [25.000] (130.000 [25.000]) for a Lesser
- (25.000 + [1.00x CWard 105.000])
385.000 [75.000] (515.000 [100.000]) for a Normal
- (50.000 + [1x GMark 100.000 + 1.00 CWard 105.000] + Catalyst Lesser 130.000 [25.000])
895.000 [175.000] (1.410.000 [275.000]) for a Greater
- (75.000 + [2x GMark 200.000 + 1.00 CWard 105.000] + Catalyst Normal 515.000 [100.000])
1.815.000 [375.000] (3.225.000 [650.000]) for a Perfect
- (100.000 + [2x GMark 200.000 + 1.00 CWard 105.000] + Catalyst Greater 1.410.000 [275.000])

Accumulative material needed for upgrade:

R5 (2.67 LMarks - 0.00 Marks - 0.00 GMarks - 0.00 PWards - 0.00 CWards)
R6 (2.67 LMarks - 1.00 Marks - 0.00 GMarks - 1.50 PWards - 0.00 CWards)
R7 (2.67 LMarks - 3.00 Marks - 0.00 GMarks - 3.83 PWards - 0.00 CWards)
R8 (5.34 LMarks - 6.00 Marks - 1.00 GMarks - 7.66 PWards - 0.00 CWards)
R9 (10.68 LMarks - 12.00 Marks - 4.00 GMarks - 19.32 PWards - 0.00 CWards)
R10 (21.32 LMarks - 24.00 Marks - 10.00 GMarks - 47.64 PWards - 0.00 CWards)

Lesser (0.00 LMarks - 0.00 Marks - 0.00 GMarks - 0.00 PWards - 1.00 CWards)
Normal (0.00 LMarks - 0.00 Marks - 1.00 GMarks - 0.00 PWards - 3.00 CWards)
Greater (0.00 LMarks - 0.00 Marks - 4.00 GMarks - 0.00 PWards - 7.00 CWards)
Perfect (0.00 LMarks - 0.00 Marks - 10.00 GMarks - 0.00 PWards - 15.00 CWards)

saltpastillen

What happens to coalescent wards? Do they completely disappear?

What are peoples thoughts in regarding to trying to fuse as many enchants as you can before module 2, opposed to waiting it out? Would it be stupid to use tarmalune trade bars before the patch to buy the wards?

j0shi82

I would fuse, fuse and after that fuse some more right now.

ott0maddux

saltpastillen wrote: »

What happens to coalescent wards? Do they completely disappear?

What are peoples thoughts in regarding to trying to fuse as many enchants as you can before module 2, opposed to waiting it out? Would it be stupid to use tarmalune trade bars before the patch to buy the wards?

I would do everything i could fuse, I always buy coal wards with trade bars.

grungebrmpk

Man, it sounds really ridiculous for me!

I have 50k AD, and can't see any way to be able to do this things j0shi82 postedwithout spending a lot of money...

24k rough diamonds / day (I never could get this, I play almost 3 hours a day and barely able to make 1 daily for 4k diamonds...) + items sold in AH (blues sell for 100 AD on average, epics at 10k...

How it can be possible to be made? The AD cost is thousands times superior then the AD viable gain

azlanfox

It's just another disguised method to increase zen store purchases and zen transfers. They are creating another false separation between paying and non-paying players.

traznix

ott0maddux wrote: »

What are other people's thoughts on this "upgrade". Personally I feel it might be a gamebreaker, it's that bad.

I still can't figure out what you are talking about, what new "upgrade" ? o_O

muhac

traznix wrote: »

I still can't figure out what you are talking about, what new "upgrade" ? o_O

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?516771-NW-10-20131018a-8-Shadowmantle-Preview-Patch-Notes

rabbinicus

Shouldn't this be in the Preview section as it isn't on live yet?

grungebrmpk

It's serious business, I think he is right to post here. Depending on their decisions here, they will loose A LOT of players.

iergo

I don't like it, this new enchantment thing. The only thing I don't like from the preview server was this. Loved GWF can off tank/tank now, I will be going from destroyer to sentinel build. Love DD keys at Bazaar especially since I no longer have a flexible schedule. This is confusing, anyhow I'm going to convert what ever I have stored on my GWF. I agree this post should be on general discussion page just to get more feedback.

j0shi82

terramak wrote: »

Quick clarification: Failing to upgrade an Enchantment or Runestone does not consume the AD value of that upgrade. Catalysts are still consumed. We'll look into the tooltip to make sure that is clearer.

Thank you to everyone providing constructive feedback!


Additional clarification: Refinement Points gained past 100% will carry over to the next Upgrade level. We are working on UI improvements to make that clearer.

I've updated the calculations on page 2.

grungebrmpk

j0shi82

Unbelievable AD cost compared to the AD gain. Not fair at all

j0shi82

I don't mind the AD cost all that much. You'll need fewer R4s to get where you want to and this means you can refine more and sell a few of them to get the AD back. It all comes down to how the Catalysts can be acquired.

grungebrmpk

But the r4's price on the AH does not reach the AD cost ><
Man, it' really hard to get 1kk AD, imagine how many millions of AD will be need to fully enhance your set! It's really unfair

rapticor

rabbinicus wrote: »

Shouldn't this be in the Preview section as it isn't on live yet?

It is in the Feedback section and I posted a link here to that. I think it's fine here as well as it's a large change that will affect pretty much everyone. So everyone should get familiar with how it works and give their feedback on the matter. The more visibility the better!

imsmithy

ott0maddux wrote: »

What are other people's thoughts on this "upgrade". Personally I feel it might be a gamebreaker, it's that bad.

I have had a quick mess about with the new system today and obviously somebody at Cryptic has put a lot of time and effort into the new system but judging by some of the ridiculous AD figures to upgrade flying about this thread it looks like if this enchantment system goes live in its current state then I think it will do more harm than good , especially if the new mark of potency and other refining stones are cash shop only , making an enchantment system where you need two separate items from the cash shop to upgrade just seems uber greedy to me , hopefully they will be dungeon drops.

grungebrmpk

Does Cryptic realize that this kind of system doesn't work?

They will loose a great part of their playerbase making something like that.

pointsman

This new "simplified" system does seem to be more complicated than the existing system.

So just so I understand how this works, based on j0shi82's calculations:
To make 1 R7, I would need 64 R4s (just like now), but I would also need 31k AD (25k+5k+1k)?
However the benefit is that I can use an R4 of any type in order to use its refinement points to make the desired enchantments, is that correct?

So suppose I want to make an R5 Dark from R4's. I would be able to consume one R4 Dark as well as (e.g.) three R4 Silverys in order to make the R5 Dark? Is that correct?

And I would have to use Catalysts in order to make enchants beyond R7?

lewstelamon01

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tang56

pointsman wrote: »

This new "simplified" system does seem to be more complicated than the existing system.

So just so I understand how this works, based on j0shi82's calculations:
To make 1 R7, I would need 64 R4s (just like now), but I would also need 31k AD (25k+5k+1k)?
However the benefit is that I can use an R4 of any type in order to use its refinement points to make the desired enchantments, is that correct?

So suppose I want to make an R5 Dark from R4's. I would need of course to start with one R4 Dark, but I can use (e.g.) three R4 Silverys in order to make the R5 Dark? Is that correct?

And I would have to use Catalysts in order to make enchants beyond R7?

iirc, you would need double the amount of silveries(or any other equal level enchant) to rank up a dark. Non identialy type enchants only count for 50% of the RP.