Guild plans and events

kyllroy2

Ok, I have some questions on the activities the other guilds engage in,

1) What events have worked/not worked

2) What real good plans that have grabbed the attention of your guild members and caused more than a gentle stir.

3) Are any of your guild members overly silent and what helps to get things moving?

4) Isn't there something missing? (guild activities seem somewhat limited IMO)

I would appreciate any help.

ambisinisterr

1) Tyr's Paladium has something we call "Dungeon Delve Saturdays" in which we run dungeons for 6 hours if players wish. Any dungeon be it a low level dungeon they want to get marked as an achievement or an epic dungeon.
Also we tend to run things in accordance with NW's events. Planning skirmishes for double astral diamond weekends and CTA runs have worked quite well.

2) Basically number one all over again. However on top of that I can say having Raidcall (voice chat) is a major perk and keeps things active without "events." Basically it's 'look it's DD, who wants to go?' and within minutes there's a full party or two ready to go.

3) I'm not sure if we have any members who are silent, Tyr's is accepting of that anyway, but we do have a problem created with the best part of the guild: the voice chat. It created 'ins' and 'outs' groups. Basically the people on Raidcall are extremely active and often partake in on the fly activities such as dungeons but those who only use guild chat are often overlooked.
We're still looking into solutions but overall the only thing we can think to do is to try to make sure to invite non-voice members to activities as much as possible but there's still a visible separation.

4) More group orientated activities would be great. Right now it does feel like it's dungeon, dungeons dungeons. Any suggestions?

malphaeous

Pacem PAra Bellum does Saturday mornings, Saturday, Afternoon Sunday morning, Sunday afternoon what we do during these times is based on who's on and what they need to run, sometimes what even is active at the time. other than that we run together as much as possible. most of our members talk in guild regularly , this is partially because of our recruiting technique, our guild members were hand selected, for personality. we've been fortunate to have no drama and usually have enough people on to do things. I dont feel like we have anything missing, we have thus far avoided forming cliques. we do have about a 15-20% attrition rate for new recruits but I think that is normal, we have yet to have one cause drama when leaving.
I know you are a guild leader or officer so im not trying to recruit you but let me sum up our guilds philosophy with this link ( read the " What Will Make Us a Great Guild" post, http://pacemparabellum.webs.com/apps/blog/
if you can get your leadership on the same page with something like this it might help. Good luck to you.

kyllroy2

Thanks so much malphaeous and abinsinisterr . I did read the intro and history of your guild Mal. Very well thought through and engaging. Your co-leaders seem like a great group and the goals seem pretty good too.
I am a Tyrs member on DDO although I never play any more. Nice active guild page and members.

I have to say that my failure to reach some of the members in my guild have been disconcerting due to the lack of a voice chat. Most of the grouping has been on guild chat only and we never get enough guild members to do anything meaningful other than a 2-3 person run of what someone needs.
The cashing in of the double AD days and pumping everyone up for a skirmish does sound like the way to go. The weekend event times makes real good sense.
I had thought more people would respond to invites, but people seem to join and just remain solo in their adventures. Not a good trend that lends one to claim guild membership as anything but optional IMO.
In NwN the groups were nearly unlimited and runs for an epic boss could be, well more epic than I am used to here. 5 people may be more manageable, but there are drawbacks as well, especially when one member loses connection and threatens to dooms the outcome. Guild membership rewards are just not that super great aside from making awesome friendships.
I sort of feel that the developers forced the condition in order to cater to the solo player. Any perks that guilds enjoy are probably not missed by that loner, Rambo type of player.
My recruitment style has been a net that catches newer players and offers help in leveling, gear, advice, some team action and light fun conversation. Sad to report that it is a failure in general and that 175 members that are mostly dead accounts just speaks volumes for the game.

malphaeous

I neglected to mention liberal use of Message of the day. it does make a difference. some people though, you will not be able to engage. we have a pretty high participation rate but we have around 30 members, this is also why we dont intend to grow beyond 50. I hope it all works out for you

kyllroy2

Good point. I need to put some creative, engaging message up more often.

Problem with the guild history record is that unless you make consistent notes there is no real way to distinguish a player taking a vacation from a dead account after day one. I have recently begun to make notes on the officer comments as to a players "current" status. In a couple of months I can feel free to begin the pruning process to find out who is playing.

My wish was to have something in a uniform, badge or specific guild weaponry to help members feel unity. I mean its not like our guild HQ is seriously going to ever happen outside of an official looking foundry based home.. Not a bad recruitment concept though.

malphaeous

Unless you are approaching cap I wouldn't worry about pruning too much. expacs bring people back, work schedules change allowing for more time to play priorities change. when people logged out in a guild and log out months later unguilded they tend to feel alienated, I would however take note of the active players and base promotions on participation. remember when you promote though to make sure that your new officers understand that rank is more about responsibility than privilege. and I don't care what anyone says, recruiting in zone is a bad idea, you can find the people who are looking for guild in zone and talk to them, but you don't get the same quality person just spamming and inviting. I use the CTA events to recruit, get a partial guild group together and queue, you get all levels in the CTA skirms mixed together it gives you an idea of how your perspective player interacts with a group. I also occasionally PuG outside the guild to meet new people. I mentioned before that we have around a 15% attrition rate, we also have around a 60% participation rate, which I consider good. eventually those who don't participate see the others having a good time and " want some of that". Other events we have include a TS AD&D 2nd ed PnP style game which is new and was brought about by one of our senior members, a "competition " for creating Character background stories on our forum ( there is no prize just socialization), and whatever else our leaders and members come up with . In WoW my wife and I were in a couple guilds with members that grew so close we are in touch today, we stopped playing WoW years ago. We are trying to foster the same environment here.

All in all I suggest discussing with your active officers and players what they need from the game. Forums might be hard at first so would suggest in game , maybe a guild meeting or one on one as you get the chance. and moving in that direction.Sorry if I sound like im pontificating on how to run a guild. its actually all trial and error. you will find what works best for you and it might not be what works best for us. In the end you know your people better than I do.

If you would like you can get with me in game as well, add me as a friend and we can discuss allying our guilds as we are small and don't intend to get huge, and you while larger have less active players it could be beneficial to both guilds, allowing our members to do things with people they know and trust. Alliances can be a lot of fun as long as the guilds involved don't poach each others members. they allow 2 or more guilds to act as a larger guild while maintaining their own guild identities and family like atmospheres.

Whatever you decide good luck to you. and remember its a game don't let it become a job . we play to have fun...

tundrrabloom

We schedule a weekly progression group and run a dungeon delve with our highest GS players. The rest of the week our officers guild pug dungeons and run them based on the lowest GS member that want to go. We used to schedule GG runs as a guild but players have lost interest in it:(

Teamspeak (voice service) really does make dungeons go more smoothly so you might look into investing into a voice service they really make a difference in a successful dungeon run and strengthing guild bonding.

kyllroy2

Tundrrabloom thanks for your ideas, which all sound good. To get the right blend of players seems to be the challenge.

Mal, you pontificate away. I am listening and open to ideas. One that I considered is a sanctioned foundry that is built on the Guild Home theme. Instead of being based in the town, players could adventure, get special treatment for completing it and add a little glory to our part of the world. Too bad there is a 5 person limit....it could well be a nice home if the Devs allowed it.... Hmm they do read these right?

ambisinisterr

If you are having trouble forming groups and promoting interactivity I can't begin to stress how much voice chat makes a difference.

Even when soloing and playing alone being able to talk to other people with ease makes the game a lot more enjoyable. Voice chat isn't for anybody but for those who it benefits it can really get things rolling. If you think about it the first step of getting people to play together is to actually get them talking to each other.

If people are talking, playing together is more or less inevitable. If you can get people to use the voice chat interest in the game, guild and grouping should increase drastically.

Teamspeak, Raidcall and Mumble are some of the options you could use and I highly recommend using voice chat.

kyllroy2

I used to use Teamspeak, but unless there is a common server everyone has to be on the same channel. That would work in guild, but on a public skirmish or dungeon isn't the built in chat feature supposed to do all that? Once I heard it was not working properly I never went back to research the keys or method.

aandrethegiant

Hello there Kyllroy2!

This whole thread saddens me. Just saw it now. Wow. Impending wall of text coming for those who find value in it (Be Forewarned!)

To anyone reading this who doesnt know that I interviewed Kyllroy for the NOCS Episode 3, let me tell you there are few more experienced in D&D/Neverwinter than he. Highly experienced guild leader too.

Those lost accounts Kyllroy are not your fault. For guys like me and you that have played games since the days Radio Shack actually sold... RADIOS... we look for DEPTH. Most MMOs of today are looking for accessibility. web/mobile functionality. peerrrtty graphics. and quick leveling.

Hence my biggest enemy as a guild leader wasnt my guildies, it was this game. Holding "raid nights" dont exist here. Scheduling/Running specific quests at certain days and time ultra difficult because of the rotation, and because most people will out-level the content before the scheduled day even comes. In game voice? Broken for many. A solid Looking for Group function to entertain guildies when guild isnt running scheduled content? Nonexistent. These are the real shortcoming guild leaders have reported to me since day one, and for the most part, these realities still exist for the game. So, how the hell did WE survive? I looked at this seemingly insurmountable situation truly wondering if we were going to make it. Here's exactly what WE did Kyllroy2.

Chat, Recruit and Chat. Realization: The camaraderie is the glue that hold people to this game, moreso than the game itself. D&D folk love to talk, and love to run quests together. Once D&D folk are happy, they stay for-almost-ever. I was always against third party chat programs. To me its a drama magne. In this game, like in DDO and in many other team based games, speaking is so helpful. You WANT a voice function in quest. Whether or not everyone uses it is secondary, as long as everyone can HEAR is fine.

I decided to go with Raidcall for just in-quest action, because the in game chat was a fail. What I found is guildies chatting about everything from real life, to useful game tidbits. We set up channels to quest, and a hallways for regular banter. Now its one big happy family. I will tell you this, without Raidcall there would be no Tyrs Paladium. Sad, but it is what it is. One other thing is website. The website was HUGE. Another communication piece. We have 30-40 unique visitors each day to our site. Guildies USE the site. I didnt spend a dime on it. But man did I spend time on it!

The people. But many guilds folded upon game launch that had great people. Sure people are the most important element... but its not enough. Forming bonds with your people are so important in this game, it almost overshadows the game itself. Our niches are very similar Kyllroy2. We go for the old school D&D folks, the rpg folks. Many young kids here have no clue the history we know.

Recruiting style becomes very important. Finding good old school players, or younger players looking for the adventures we knew growing up (games with depth, not the ZingaEZ WinNow games), that will RUN TOGETHER is what I did. Every single guildie knew coming in that following the guild rules and the camaraderie is all that mattered. If you read our guild rules, and needed to describe it in one word? Camaraderie. NO DRAMA. No Bull. Let em know you enforce the rules. This has kept the bad people out and brought the good people in.

Ok so now we talked about the people and how to get them talking. Strong officers. Ahhhh now that sounds like an old school concept right? Common sense right? In this game, multiply common sense by 10, add some salt & pepper, throw in some garlic, and multiply by 10 again. Officers in this game will be busy FROM DAY ONE.

I was lucky, my officers, actually wanted to help. And man oh man.... if I didnt have my officers..... there would be no Tyrs Paladium. Period. There roles are easy to disperse. You need a good recruiter if you dont have the time. You need officers to start groups. (One of those common freikin sense things that can get overlooked. In this game, having 1 or 2 people that ALWAYS seem to be running and asking others to run with them are golden.)

Once you have the people in place, and they love spending time & running together, they find fun. Whether they run high or run low or somewhere in between, after a few months folks will have various alts they can bring in to help out guildies where ever they need the help.

We schedule differently now than I do for any other game. Specific quest at a specific day/time is rare, unless its epics. We set up theme days. That seems to work great for us. Mostly its just communication. I found this game is so much more fun run in groups. Sad part is much of the game is beatable solo. So your guildies dont NEED you. And thats the hardest pill to swallow about this game. They dont NEED a guild. So, back to the beginning, People/bonds are the glue. And that dang C word again..... no not that one!! .... Camaraderie!!!! We have FUN! Focus on these elements, and you can succeed.

As a special note, I have to thank the amazing work of Marenor and PaladinSpirit who I crowned co-guild leaders to replace me several months ago. They just GOT the guild from day 1. I also need to thank Paks, who I allowed to make decisions when I wasn't in-game (We think very alike). I needed to take a step back due to family and work commitments. We should have failed. The reason we didnt is because of the efforts of all three who did it every bit as good as I was doing it. Even better.

kyllroy2

Aandre, thanks for commenting on the state of affairs.
When we did the podcast interviews I got the feeling that many of those speaking were, like me, anticipating a full set of guild tools to set us apart from the herd. What did we get? Nothing except our guild chat channel, some empty leadership titles and power to hire and fire members. The bank itself cost me a gang of AD. NP in itself after I figured out how to accumulate. A completely useless silver and gold cache made no sense whatsoever.
I fully expected to be able to do group runs, but all level dungeons are impractical and for what? The fear of cheating nerfed any possibility of a private proving ground for guild members.
Runs limited to 5 players and foundry limits of 5 make guild housing or theme parks impossible.
In my brain I wanted to dig up some kind of benefit for the members so I used the bank pages to stock enchantments and offer them to members free. Instead of leveling, I spent weeks and weeks farming and fusing only. Everyone can contribute and receive, but even this seemed like begging to some to participate in anything like the tight club I have been used to over the years.

Seriously, I had a rough time as DM keeping people interested in the old NwN. I decorated arenas, decorated for holidays, set up treasure hunts, fed monsters to groups while unseen to keep everyone engaged, rewarded new players with gear for achievements, dropped healing kits for players having it rough, and teleported people to obscure locations when they smarted off.....:)
Once, I set up an entire large room and completely packed it with prostitutes. Some little reward was placed at the end of the room and I would listen to people who stumbled in there crack up and make some hilarious comments.

None of this is possible and the good storytellers are busy working behind the scenes with some nice foundry missions, which is this games saving grace...Thank you all!

That said, I would really like some attention given to the guilds or watch the game slide downward to a solo adventure...not my wish in any sense.

malphaeous

This is about what we had in WoW as far as guild tools goes. It sounds as if in DDO you had a lot more freedom, as if DMing a PnP game. We have a TS server with multiple channels, Vent works the same way. Truly all you need is to get your people talking to you, otherwise you dont know what they need. PPB is very fortunate to have members who step up and help organize , make suggestions and take responsibility for their own gameplay.
My wife and I were discussing this thread and she suggested that if you do have to " Prune " the tree a little that you do it when no one is on.
I can tell you that with the CTA coming up you have a great opportunity, the last one didn't separate by level so your lowbies can play with your more experienced players, run guild groups and when you have too few for a guild group pug the last few spots, look for unguilded players see if they are what you want in your guild and recruit them. we had 7 members for a long time, our growth really started with the CTA. As I said in a previous post we are small by design, and don't intend to recruit in Zone. we intend to limit our growth to around 50 accounts which we are approaching. The best way in any game to find active players is to ( I hate to say this ) PuG, and when recruiting from a PuG Attitude> Skill.

Kyllroy , over the course of this thread I have come to view you as a friend, and i hope that at least some of what I have said will be helpful to you. In the end I think you will discover what is best for the group of players you have, but it may take time, if you find even one member who is willing to help that will ease your burden immensely, then you find a second one. you will never have 100% participation, but when people see someone else participating and having fun it tends to grow from there.

kyllroy2

Mal those are great suggestions and thx to your wife also. I didn't spend enough time on DDO really, but I saw some of the tools available for grouping that impressed me. My little experience was on Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2. That should have set the bar for guilds here, but I expect the MMO mentality where everything must be built around the solo player shot that down. If I remember correctly, in NwN there were no high level bosses that could be completed without a party and sometimes it took a big group.
As far as guilds go, it seems that a smaller, super fun one like you are part of is the way to go.
To help the game remain popular, it would be logical to support the gradual improvement of guilds and listen to the community. Just my 2 cents.

malphaeous

the solo player is what ruined WoW imo, I wish this game would at least add some 10 man or even 15 man content. it would be hard on a smaller guild like mine but I think we could make it happen and if not we would form an alliance with someone. WoW was a great game when it came out , then they started catering to the whiners and alienating their real player base. I have been in the big 40 man raiding guilds in WoW but they all began to crumble when the raids got smaller. cater to the casual player , sure but the solo player can just as well play a solo game and have the same experience. of course I do believe in greater rewards for greater effort, if they introduce raids it should include another tier of epic gear that can only be received by raiding.
I agree with you that, Guild Housing, tabards or other heraldry would be great. something to show pride in your guild, it also would promote unity. there are several things that this game can do to improve, however it is still new and changes are still coming. hopefully they listen to their base rather than those who whine loudest.

kyllroy2

Is there even a mechanic to replace a guild founder? It seems there is a complete lack when it comes to what many expect a guild to provide to the community. I find it mildly embarrassing to invite a seasoned player and get " I don't DO guilds" as a response. I really have no comeback as the rewards are hard to describe at this point.....

malphaeous

What would fix the whole " I dont do guilds " thing would be making all epics BoP. ive been seeing more and more " Solo " players, they seem to miss the whole concept of a Multiplayer game, at least IMHO. whats the point of playing a game like this solo, there is no winning... its about the social interaction more than anything. The other day I had a young player in the guild ask about soloing epic dungeons. so I took him to the GWD a dungeon not out of reach for him but right at the end of his experience and gear. to kind of help him understand. people dont seem to have any concept of team lately. Frankly it saddens me.

kyllroy2

I wonder how much Lord of the Rings would have made around just Aragorn bagging the ring and stealthing his way to the crack?

For a real spoiler, how about Gandalf bagging the ring and flying in with the eagles like a B1 bomber...One chapter....and no fun...sadfacepalm...

Making endless adds extend the final battles isn't the answer. Solving mazes, diabolical locked vaults, collecting vital keys and multiple skill based resolution on a revolving end boss will always get people to spend money, especially if a real person controls the boss and mixes it up. Oh too busy? Fire that Dev and hire a real one.

malphaeous

I was thinking about your problem and I have another suggestion. Do you have 2 or 3 players who are active. a couple of players participating in a lot of planned events will help to get other players to participate, bring back the PHLEWTZ get your dailies done buy some uber gear , others see this and gain a bit of motivation. start with a small core group and slowly fold others into this core. I hadn't realized this before but that exactly what we did as our guild was growing, also im not sure if I mentioned the upcoming CTA event but we used this to allow our lower level players to go with our veteran players and do something cool. I hope this helps you, maybe it will give you an idea

kyllroy2

I'm really looking for some new interested players. Most of the recent recruits are scared of their own shadow...or is it just a shadow?

malphaeous

That's crazy, My guys will go into a Dungeon that they don't have the gear or experience to beat and stay until someone falls asleep. No complaints, just determination. I sometimes take a new 60 to the GWD to show them that not all Epic Dungeons are a run through like CT and CC. the problem is that they get stuck on the idea of beating the last boss, and we stay... Even the more experienced players in the group the ones who usually run T2s or better don't complain. to think that anyone wouldn't want to run a guild group Dungeon or PvP is almost foreign to me. all I can say is Recruit through the CTA event and PuGs at least that will find you people doing something and you get to see what kind of attitude they have in a group. in the meantime if you see me on and im not doing anything I will PuG with you or fill in as needed if you like. im mostly a weekend player and often busy with guild events and business, but not always. Maybe I will drag you along on one of our runs if we are short . remember its a game and were playing it to have fun.

kyllroy2

Mal, very kind offer. I can see why people in your guild hang in there.

malphaeous

Meant every word, add me to your Friends list =D