OMG! A nerf thread

mikeym80

I really enjoy PvP in this game. I basically geared my toons specifically for it. The only thing really bothering about the pvp and seems a bit unfair (you guessed it, Rogues) is the rogues SE daily. If every other class has a daily that can be dodged, why can't we dodge SE? Keep the damage and all that jazz, but just let me use my dodge skills to evade that beastly daily!

It's like when I hear the "tink tink" of an ice knife, I'm ready to move! Same concept should go for the rogues daily. They already have it too easy. This would be a respectable fix.

On a side note - A GWF/GF knock downs seem a bit lengthy. Would be nice to have a chance to evade in between a GF's CC. You're in combat, why would you get up that slow? lol

Back to the point:
Would you like to see the rogues SE daily be dodge-able like every other class's daily?

ladysylvia

mikeym80 wrote: »

I really enjoy PvP in this game. I basically geared my toons specifically for it. The only thing really bothering about the pvp and seems a bit unfair (you guessed it, Rogues) is the rogues SE daily. If every other class has a daily that can be dodged, why can't we dodge SE? Keep the damage and all that jazz, but just let me use my dodge skills to evade that beastly daily!

It's like when I hear the "tink tink" of an ice knife, I'm ready to move! Same concept should go for the rogues daily. They already have it too easy. This would be a respectable fix.

On a side note - A GWF/GF knock downs seem a bit lengthy. Would be nice to have a chance to evade in between a GF's CC. You're in combat, why would you get up that slow? lol

Back to the point:
Would you like to see the rogues SE daily be dodge-able like every other class's daily?

Oh you don't hear the best of SE! It ignore Damage immunity! Soulforge proc? Doesn't matter! This BS go through it!

tcarnce

it clearly describes that works below 25% not when you re oneshot ;p or from 26% to 0

melodywhr

tink tink isn't the ice knife, but ice rays. good luck dodging it since the "tink" locks you on target.

dante125pl

SE even goes throu soulforged, it makes this enchant completly useless vs TR with SE

tang56

melodywhr wrote: »

tink tink isn't the ice knife, but ice rays. good luck dodging it since the "tink" locks you on target.

Nope, ice knife has a cha-tink sound to it shortly before the actual knife falls. Icy rays imo is more of a plink. :P

fondlez

In its current state its a silly, unbalanceable skill+class combo - the only one as far as I can tell in the whole game. From another post of mine outlining the issues:

0. Undodgeable (you have to guess when the Shocking Execution is coming. No part of the animation will help you once it starts).
1. Huge range for a Daily of a melee class! I have been hit by it at a range of 40ft, i.e. double that of Combat Advantage...
2. Large damage that becomes much greater based on missing HP
3. Prone/knockdown.

Combined with the synergy of a class with the highest burst abilities in the game, I can not honestly think of a better IWIN button!

This is a Daily that if it should exist at all, should be part of a low CC, low damage class, like Clerics as a "rewards" for working their asses off for getting anyone low enough to even begin to worry about being finished off.

Even GF's struggle with Shocking Execution because while it can be blocked if some TR is dumb enough to use it upfront (and why would anyone do so due to the HP dependency), TRs can just use their At-Wills both in melee or range to wipe out the guard of any GF that is actually able to kill them before rapidly lowering the HP of the defenseless target with Encounters.

To me, this is literally the only unbalanced skill in the whole PvP game, due to specific parts of its mechanics combined with the context, i.e. in a TR class.

I like ItC-Impact shotting TRs and PoB TRs that bleed me dry before I can even tell where they are coming from and almost unkillable GWFs or GF's who get lucky and chain stun me or DC's that dot me up or knock me around or CW's that perma-CC or mark me or try to hit me with their slowass Ice Knife's or think their silly green bubbles will save them when I catch them. These are all challenging fun things that all have workarounds and ways to mitigate them.

But what the heck do you do about an IWIN button like Shocking Execution on a TR class, other than get them first before they get you (which has never worked in any MMO PvP balance I have ever heard of)?

Designers basically need to break ONE of those components and the bottom 1-3 are all balanceable and have counters in other classes or are too useful to remove. But 0 has no counter in combination with 1-3 and being on TR - so, that should be the part that is removed or whole skill redesigned.

kaoswp

You can dodge SE but you have about a .5 second window. Also, TRs are not OP.

I am a debuff CW. I can use EF, them Ice Knife for 24k and kill a TR. You're telling me that is fine but SE isn't?

corpsemaker86

1) nobody respects when a light armored player complains about TRs. It holds no weight

2) It can be blocked which is BS since its designed to be an anti-tank move

3) don't compare TR dailies to other classes. EVER

- Ice Knife might as well be an encounter move its always up for CWs. TRs get 3-4 dailies in an entire pvp match and that's it. We have very slow AP buildup in pvp. you think its fair to just be able to dodge out the way? Against GFs not only can they block it but it also doesn't even help take their shield down. Its more of an anti-GWF move.... but tbf its literally the only way a TR can kill a high regen GWF

4) its not really effective unless the person has a big chunk of health missing. Whereas Ice knife can be effective at all times

fondlez

kaoswp wrote: »

You can dodge SE but you have about a .5 second window. Also, TRs are not OP.

I am a debuff CW. I can use EF, them Ice Knife for 24k and kill a TR. You're telling me that is fine but SE isn't?

In this thread, you are first person to say TRs are OP. NO ONE THINKS THAT. Get it out of your head right now. The only thing that is bait in this thread is the title (why OP, why?).

As for damage: a TR can do that 24k with just an Encounter. They can do half of that damage plus stun you with just one charge of one Encounter. So, frikkin what?

We are talking about ONE aspect of ONE skill in context. That's it. Nothing more.

Stop derailing a very specific thread with "OP" claims and silly damage comparisons that mean nothing by themselves.

munkey81

mikeym80 wrote: »

rogues SE daily.

I main a TR and I support this message.

Shocking Execution should be able to be dodged.

Not to mention its buggy as all hell. Will hit someone with no damage, or even displaying it was even used in combat log, but wastes AP.

munkey81

fondlez wrote: »

Shocking Execution unbalanceable Prone

Shocking Execution Prones you now?

Mine must be broken................/insert sarcasm

kaoswp

fondlez wrote: »

In this thread, you are first person to say TRs are OP. NO ONE THINKS THAT. Get it out of your head right now. The only thing that is bait in this thread is the title (why OP, why?).

Also, stop looking or comparing things just on damage. A TR can do that 24k with just an Encounter. They can do half of that damage plus stun you with just one charge of one Encounter. So, frikkin what?

We are talking about ONE aspect of ONE skill in context. That's it. Nothing more.

Stop derailing a very specific thread with silly damage comparisons that mean nothing by themselves.

Ok you are correct that we should focus on one skill. It really is not that good, if they did patch it, I would hope it would just be to make it less laggy/buggy. It is never game breaking any more so than other dailies. I think you just get killed a lot by TRs so now you are angry. Your response to me trying to make a point of how it stacks up to other dailies only further makes me think that you are just crying nerf because you die too much.

Good luck

kaoswp

munkey81 wrote: »

Shocking Execution Prones you now?

Mine must be broken................/insert sarcasm

Lmao! Probably... Make a thread and ask for patch?

clearlyavirgin

I agree.

However, to me, It makes sense that SE can go through soulforge because it's a finisher, an execution. So it makes sense to me.

What doesn't is that it is the only move in the game that is undodgeable. Unless you are already on the brim of it's range, and they trigger it, and then you dash back, moving out of it's range can you dodge it. However if you dodge it that way, they keep their daily.

Also, for those who think ice rays is undodgeable as well, message pwn star from Lemonade Stand, he knows how and has dodged ice rays many times.

-cav

xtraordinary91

clearlyavirgin wrote: »

I agree.

However, to me, It makes sense that SE can go through soulforge because it's a finisher, an execution. So it makes sense to me.

What doesn't is that it is the only move in the game that is undodgeable. Unless you are already on the brim of it's range, and they trigger it, and then you dash back, moving out of it's range can you dodge it. However if you dodge it that way, they keep their daily.

Also, for those who think ice rays is undodgeable as well, message pwn star from Lemonade Stand, he knows how and has dodged ice rays many times.

-cav

I support this. SE needs to be Dodgable, that being said, it then becomes balanced.

@virgin

As a Cw who uses Icy Rays on TAB, the only times I have noticed Icy Rays not hit is when the target moves completely out of range as I fire the second Tab, Not only does the spell not hit, but it then goes directly on cooldown.

Which leads me to believe it is a Bug rather than intended.

jacksoon

All the class have 1 undogiable daily, if you are too slow. If you stay near a GWF and sue slam, you can't dodge it. If you didn't notice a Tr using SE you can't dodge it ^^ If you don't pay attention to the CW you can't dodge Ice Knife. Even the DC hammer of fate can't be dodge if you are too slow. So, if you get killed by 1 of that daily isn't because that player is OP, simply you was to slow whit the dodge.

clearlyavirgin

xtraordinary91 wrote: »

I support this. SE needs to be Dodgable, that being said, it then becomes balanced.

@virgin

As a Cw who uses Icy Rays on TAB, the only times I have noticed Icy Rays not hit is when the target moves completely out of range as I fire the second Tab, Not only does the spell not hit, but it then goes directly on cooldown.

Which leads me to believe it is a Bug rather than intended.

There's a split second, while the rays are in mid air going at their target, that if you jump and dash, they miss.
I know that's a vague explanation. It'd be better just to ask pwn star.

Honestly I don't even know how he does it.

mehguy138

jacksoon wrote: »

All the class have 1 undogiable daily, if you are too slow. If you stay near a GWF and sue slam, you can't dodge it. If you didn't notice a Tr using SE you can't dodge it ^^ If you don't pay attention to the CW you can't dodge Ice Knife. Even the DC hammer of fate can't be dodge if you are too slow. So, if you get killed by 1 of that daily isn't because that player is OP, simply you was to slow whit the dodge.

WTF am I reading

kingculex

1. It can be dodged if the player knows how to dodge it.
2. Shocking Execution has already been nerfed for 60% of its base damage.
3. It has the limitation that a player/target has to be injured for it to do any real damage.<-Typically 50% health.
4. It takes forever for TRs to build AP to set it off.
5. CW's Ice Knife is more powerful and does not have the target must be injured limitation.
6. Since when does it prone/knockdown you? You are probably confused with something else.

You know what go ahead and ask for more nerfs because every class will be nerfed. Go ahead and nerf GWF, GFs, and TRs like the OP in this thread wants. CWs and DCs will be nerfed too in the name of *balance*. Strip away all the abilities in every class that makes them unique. Players should keep in mind you win some and lose some before coming to the forums to cry but aw well.:)

vortix44

mikeym80 wrote: »

They already have it too easy.

Are you criticizing the devs here? Are you implying that the TRs win in PvP because they're TRs ?

mehguy138

The only way to dodge SE is to CC a rogue while the animation plays and kill him before he'll try to reuse it.

cribstaxxx

mehguy138 wrote: »

The only way to dodge SE is to CC a rogue while the animation plays and kill him before he'll try to reuse it.

Yes Lol. On my GWF TR started the animation and then I did knockdown to break him out, he started it again, flourished him out, then when he started it the 3rd time I hit avalanche of steel and was immune heh. It's not like it's press 1 button and win, that TR had to be quite angry at that point =P

mikeym80

vortix44 wrote: »

Are you criticizing the devs here? Are you implying that the TRs win in PvP because they're TRs ?

I mean c'mon. TR's have all the fancy tricks! It is rather easy to snag a kill on them with an encounter that hits more than dailies, and a daily that IS NOT dodge-able (And i say this compared to other dailies that you can see, or hear an animation to dodge out of the way)

I'm not bashing, crying, or just a squishy class. I have a TR but i main a DC for pvp that is full def/deflect. No TR can one shot me yet ^^

So again.. No QQ here for nerf, I just wanna be able to dodge it, and not lay on the ground for an eternity when proned by a gf/gwf

munkey81

The people that say you can dodge Shocking on purpose I'm afraid are wrong.

Shocking is extremely buggy. Generally using Shocking while being attacked by multiple targets results in no damage at all from Shocking, and using all your AP.

The only way you can avoid Shocking is if somehow you manage to be well out of range during the animation, or it bugs out(which is frequent).

Some folks say "you can dodge Shocking if you know how to". Well I say please provide proof. I have a ridiculous amount of hours playing PvP and I know my TR inside and out. I'm not able to "dodge" it. I would love to be proven wrong. Post a video please and teach the rest of us how to dodge it, I'd be very happy =P

I main a TR and I support another revamp of Shocking. Its buggy as all hell and goes through everything.

cribstaxxx

TR's have lowest AP generation of any class and this skill is needed as is to counter Tanky GWF's. They can be CC'd out of the animation easily by a smart player that knows it's coming and is saving CC for it (notice I said smart so if you disagree then... you get it) as I posted above I stopped a TR twice and then became immune to the damage, it's all about knowing what you're up against and how to counter it.

This skill has already been nerfed and does very low damage if the target is not already at half or below.

degraafination

TRs are not a problem, and I play a CW as my main. They're extremely well balanced, in my opinion. Perhaps some of their dailies need a buff.

munkey81

cribstaxxx wrote: »

They can be CC'd out of the animation easily by a smart player that knows it's coming and is saving CC for it

This is totally different then dodging it. Which goes back to the point of, it needs to be reworked so it can be avoided by skill, not by sheer luck or because it bugged out.

cribstaxxx

munkey81 wrote: »

This is totally different then dodging it. Which goes back to the point of, it needs to be reworked so it can be avoided by skill, not by sheer luck or because it bugged out.

It can be avoided by skill. Hitting them with any form of hard CC during their animation is the same as dodging it, it still negates the damage. Lol the animation is so long you would have to be afk not to dodge to it, and it leaves them open to easily be CC'd before you get hit.

Edit: I guess we need to nerf icy rays, whirlwind of blades, crescendo, GF daily, and any other skill that can still hit when dodged too right?

munkey81

cribstaxxx wrote: »

It can be avoided by skill. Hitting them with any form of hard CC during their animation is the same as dodging it, it still negates the damage. Lol the animation is so long you would have to be afk not to dodge to it, and it leaves them open to easily be CC'd before you get hit.

Edit: I guess we need to nerf icy rays, whirlwind of blades, crescendo, GF daily, and any other skill that can still hit when dodged too right?

All of those abilities can be dodged.

Shocking Execution cannot be DODGED
Using CC to interrupt an ability is 100% different then dodging.

I'm not sure why you don't understand this

cribstaxxx

munkey81 wrote: »

All of those abilities can be dodged.

Shocking Execution cannot be DODGED
Using CC to interrupt an ability is 100% different then dodging.

I'm not sure why you don't understand this

No those abilities can't be dodged lol. You are unable to dodge icy rays, whirlwind of blades, crescendo sometimes depends on how buggy it is being, and GF daily you can dodge the first hit but then 2nd one get you and knocks you prone.

Since it takes them over twice as long to build AP vs. other classes the least they can do is have a daily that can't be instantly and very easily negated (even though it still can be by an intelligent player that knows how to CC...)