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farfig1337
Member Posts: 108 Bounty Hunter
As the title says, there is nothing further to be said about the GWF, or even GF's role in the game. the complaints have been solid since open beta, and I'm tired of looking at new posts and seeing even more complaints.
I ask all players out there that play fighters to stop posting on these forums all together. To go on strike for fighters sake. We have said everything that needs to be said. If the devs wont listen then they lose us as players. Yes there are always a few of you that talk up the fighters for fighters sake. But I ask you players why do fighters need to be constantly bolstered by you when none of the other classes require such a spokesperson?
Everyone who has put money towards this game is entitle to the same enjoyment that people who player other classes have. Player that dont have to fight constantly for spots in PvE, player who dont require a guild to support you and run with you because you are a good player.
I am a 14.2k GWf I out DPS even 15k GWF,s I only know of one 15k GWF that out damages me and only one equally geared GWF that can compete with me in dungeons (and all we do together is Pirate kings for salvage). This is it for me my GWF has done nothing but pray and craft for a week straight, and eveyone I know says I am the the best GWF they know.
So I ask you all to support the strike let the Barracks class forusm go stagnant. Post in no other thread than this one. And maybe just maybe the devs will finally do something drastic to keep there fighter player base.
And yes I know GF's are in a tight spot as well, they are good up until the elitist endgame but at that point there struggle worse than the GWF. Only the few and very few GWF can manage eipc endgame in place of a TR and still that is a hard fight when there are awesome TR around. And GF never get to see the light of CN.
Who is with me? WHo is fet up enough to call an All Fighters STRIKE!
I ask all players out there that play fighters to stop posting on these forums all together. To go on strike for fighters sake. We have said everything that needs to be said. If the devs wont listen then they lose us as players. Yes there are always a few of you that talk up the fighters for fighters sake. But I ask you players why do fighters need to be constantly bolstered by you when none of the other classes require such a spokesperson?
Everyone who has put money towards this game is entitle to the same enjoyment that people who player other classes have. Player that dont have to fight constantly for spots in PvE, player who dont require a guild to support you and run with you because you are a good player.
I am a 14.2k GWf I out DPS even 15k GWF,s I only know of one 15k GWF that out damages me and only one equally geared GWF that can compete with me in dungeons (and all we do together is Pirate kings for salvage). This is it for me my GWF has done nothing but pray and craft for a week straight, and eveyone I know says I am the the best GWF they know.
So I ask you all to support the strike let the Barracks class forusm go stagnant. Post in no other thread than this one. And maybe just maybe the devs will finally do something drastic to keep there fighter player base.
And yes I know GF's are in a tight spot as well, they are good up until the elitist endgame but at that point there struggle worse than the GWF. Only the few and very few GWF can manage eipc endgame in place of a TR and still that is a hard fight when there are awesome TR around. And GF never get to see the light of CN.
Who is with me? WHo is fet up enough to call an All Fighters STRIKE!
Post edited by farfig1337 on
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Comments
Too much drama.
It's just a game, not some politics.
Something has to be done about GFs and GWFs, because it is ridiculous that only 3 of the 5 classes are useful in Epic Dungeons.
Yes, there are certain tactics how to run epic dungeons, but GWFs are in none of these tactics, mostly..
Lowering the Epic Dungeon difficulty wont fix it either, as the same tactics will just have an easier job. GWFs need a boost, my point of view.
TRs are not supposed to deal more damage than GWFs, that's just wrong. CWs do more damage since they AoE mostly, so that's fine.
Rogues specialities are stealth and quick attacking, but low damage dealt per hit is the consequence. GWFs are supposed to be the main damage dealers.
<Heroes of the Fallen Lands>
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Social, PvE and PvP Guild on Dragon Shard!
i agreed, wondering what the heck is these devs doing with kick skill, did they nerf it? it became so weak and undesireable.
1 - The above option has always existed and is accessible, you only boring and obvious.
2 - the class lost their old dilemmas without gaining new ones, in other words, was limited..
"It's just a game, not some politics."
ignoring the sense of proportions, we lose time (or money) to support a project that has not satisfied, fairly, what is proposed .... hahah
The problem is that turns and moves when launching a new mount, always have a 15 cw using ... summary of the opera: the company will still enjoy a lot of this "cw for win" .
It's Mzdoubtfire. Ran my first T2 (with my healer) with you on my healer. Was a good run, I could tell from the start we should of had you on adds last boss; just wanted to see if the CW/GF could handle them.
Rollingonit GWF/ Mzdoubtfire DC
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
But are the devs capable of grabbing an Emergency Defibrillator and reviving the Fighters?
I think not.....
"But we have the technology we have the power we can rebuild you bigger better stronger faster"
Farfig can you post a list of the dungeons where gwfs can go? I queued for CN yesterday and all the group instantly disbanded when they saw a gwf.
I gladly choose GWFs in my groups all the time as long as they dont suck as a players (that's the main problem of the class, people suck) but any party to all dungeons but CN should have GWFs without problems.
i don't play GWF so i can't comment on the state of that class other than to say that it seems VERY popular, but GF is great to me
Slap on a pamper, stand in a Red Circle, and take it like a man! :cool:
- It's not the fighters that can't do the dungeon. We all know we can. It's the dungeons that are broken and don't support us.
- If I was to ask for one boon for GWF's, it would be to give us AOE threat generation which is less effective against single targets but more effective the more creatures we hit. Wrapped into current encounter powers, so that our damage doesn't get stoked trying to fit 'come and get it'.
- Don't hate on players who think the class is fine. I know it doesn't support your agenda, but that doesn't mean those players are wrong. It's easier to see the bias of players constantly complaining about their class in the hope of getting a buff, than players who love their class and see balance as an equation with team versus team. I guess to you we may all be butt sniffers, but I don't give any credit beyond where it's due. And the game needs to be reminded that our class is NOT broken, it is NOT useless, and we ARE great members in the group.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
In any rpg classes generally have relatively simple functions and accessible to "casual gamers" + builds that are like "a pot of gold beyond the rainbow"; (smart combinations or "pay for win").
Never had primary function, ie, a kind of member are sporadic too weak or powerful depending on the build, which was not bad since we were the most diverse class "beyond the rainbow". And indeed no player "beyond the rainbow" Today was the ground, but I insist, what a dilemma became restriction without the gwf received his primary function.
The current aggravating is that the "tank / melee" became obsolete (and this includes threats). then we are broken, obsolete and obvious.
Already launched the idea and I will repeat it until the spam reaching the devs (maybe if more people insist on it, the miracle happens): think of skills shared between different classes.
For example, a battle fury to create a benefit of guard / threat to the gf, and in exchange for this benefit, the gwf receive a return of power: imagine a gf buying time for which we use a reaping strike damage in the area would be among the largest of all classes, including dailys? And that someone who knows the gf think of any sensible bonus for the class, after all, no one has created his character to be "pet" of another.
Balance together is the only way to make classes equally important that, where appropriate, one is weaker than the other individually. The challenge is not to make 3 gwf/3gf/3rogues are so good at pve as 3 cw, but one of each class forms the best possible team. And if teamwork create some brutal imbalance in pvp, this is a sign that the game has reached perfection!
this is a euphemism ... hahha
no matter if the fighter is a "crybabie," an idealist, a big ego or euphemistic ... in pve we are weak. is not a matter of "I still do well," or "I'm still the paingiver", is a matter to be necessary or not the group.
Uh? Student of the Sword's debuff of foe's def does not benefit the whole party?
They really should rename control wizard to storm wizard and be done with it.
Storm wizards really can put out a lot of damage. Though to be honest, i'm currently leveling a CW, and it's like a TR as far as output goes, only from range. Makes the melee classes feel like wet blankets with how weak they hit.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
It was my understanding that:
TR = Single target damage (Should Focus boss).
CW = Add control (Keeps adds away from TR and under control so TR can do his job).
GF = Aggro (Holds aggro once CW has gathered adds together to keep CW alive).
GWF = AOE damage (kills adds once CW has them under control and while GF is holding aggro)
DC = Healing (keeps everybody alive)
It is my understanding too, although roles are not as sharp as you point them out, there is a lot of blurring. As I play cleric, and probably other clerics can confirm this as well, there is a huge difference in how people take damage if a GF is present in the party or not. Usually a GF will focus the fight in one area, which makes the healing of the astral shield more effective since most/all party members are concentrated in an area. Maybe I am biased, but I feel the runs with a GF are much smoother. Of course this only applies to normal runs, exploit runs usually ignore game mechanics and just cheat their way to victory...
This is most definitely true. The problem is that CW and TR have been out of balance long enough that the dungeons have been balanced around them. So, if you nerf the classes to make them play the role they should be rather than supreme damage, then you end up dungeons being out of balance.
Either the fighters (mostly GWF) need a buff or CW + TR + most epic dungeons need a nerf.
With my CW, I don't focus on anything anymore. I kill the adds and boss all at the same time. I don't need a healer because I do so much damage that my life steal heals me to full in about 2 seconds if I'm hurt. The only challenge left is simply avoiding getting one-shotted; which does still happen sometimes, but I can generally avoid it.
I still run my sharandar dailies with my GWF to get the boons in hopes that some day the class will do some real damage. Or, make destroyer/instigator viable. Might as well be a CW if your survivability is the same just to put out less than half the damage.
Same on my CW im at 1.6k def and 11.5% life steal with 22% arp, i dont really need heal from dc because DC cannot save from spike damage, but still 11% foresight and astral shield is why we love DCs in dgs.
I think TR and CW nerf isnt needed, just dmg buff for gwf, some 1 who have aoe controll(CW) shouldnt do more aoe damage than pure aoe dmg class without CC(GWF).
The easiest way to make GWF better pick for dungeons is, as he cannot control adds, increase his damage by something like 20-30% then we could say its really dps aoe class.
One of the lucky ones, you are.
They "can" go anywhere, but they aren't wanted there.
To the point, as of now we are weaker in single target than a TR, weaker in aoe than a CW and weaker in tanking(aggro + dmg absorb) than a GF
It does, but many find another CW with arcane empowerment and High Vizer more usefull.
Yeah, don't know what the aoe class has a 5 target cap and 50% dmg penalty for hitting 5 targets. Its just counterproductive.
We should start a Thunder Clap.
Fighter UNITE!
Personally I don't have a problem with my damage output, as I and basically everyone I know already has their Paingiver title. I generally just care about completing the dungeon we're in smoothly than who is doing more damage than me. That being said, I'm very rarely the top damage dealer these days unless I group with low geared pugs. I do agree that a damage buff would be nice, especially after our Unstoppable nerf and permanent (as in never completely fixed) tab bug. (I haven't been active lately but I guess it's still bugged?)
But yeah, back to not posting again. Enjoy the game everyone
/Sejal
Oh and GWF is the only class I play, so I don't really have an unbiased view on classes. I have other chars but I just pray and do tasks on them
<don't read this part>
In 4.0 a Trickster Rogue is a high damage dealing striker, designed to be very effective against single targets. In this game's weird take on 4.0 rules, the TR is actually one of the few things they got pretty close to the base PnP game design.
I feel weird defending them. I'm a guardian fighter. But still, if you all think TR's are not supposed to be high damage strikers, you all haven't played a lot of D&D the past couple of years.
Leading up to my final question, filled with snark, "How's Pathfinder?"
I also think the dungeon design is the problem. Not GWF/GF in general. Many dungeons have fights with 10+ adds at the same time. GF is very effective against groups of 3-5 in terms of damage and aggro generation (because most skills are capped to hit 3 or 5 targets). Fighting more than 5 mobs at the same time becomes less and less controllable, also because taunting hits random targets.
So when many fights consist of fighting 5, 10 or more monsters and GF can not efficently control them then who can? Easy answer: CW. Also CW has the best pushing abilities to knock mobs: Arcane Singularity & Shield Pulse can push 20 elite mobs down a cliff. At last CWs have ranged DPS, which unfortunately is what many glitches/bug exploits are based on... and there are so many exploits in this game - take for example Caverns of Karundaxx. So CWs get requested in LFG chat.
DC's shield and heal - they get requested in LFG chat.
TR's have highest single-target DPS and can stealth to activate campfires, which makes running faster in some dungeons. For dungeons consisting maily of single-target- or 5+ target battles a combination of TR's and CW's is superior to GF and GWF DPS-wise.
In other games the need for tankier classes results from high mob damage or limited aggro generation. In most Neverwinter dungeons the damage mobs shed out is so limited that even Trickster Rogues (which are supposed to be squishy) can tank them. As a GF i see no point in sacrificing any offense for more defense, as I can hardly see the use for defense in the current content. Also aggro generation benefits from higher damage and there are even some defensive mechanics that improve with higher dps (for example the 84% lifesteal fighters recovery provides).
Conqueror GF's perform awesome as DPSers against 3-5 enemies, GWFs destroy groups of 2-4. But only with the right feats and equip. People building more tanky will have more unneccesary defense and lack offense, thus being less of an asset. That being said GF and GWF are also very gear dependant. If you dont have good DPS gear you are likely to deal less DPS than a CW or TR with medium gear.
No it is a proven fact that CW's Deal more damage than GWF if Both are the top of their class. If you have run enough MC's and know who are the best GWF's and pair them up with the best CW's GWFS damage gets beat by about 20-30%. Now I have seen these good GWFS out damage plenty of CW's, medium skill CW's with medium-good gear, so you can't blame a GWF at all for being out DPSed by a CW.
I do not say it is a problem of dungeon design that hurts the fighter or that TR's CW's are too powerful. The fact is TR's and CW's have a hard time in dungeons. This is why they are in demand they are needed to beat dungeons since fighters cant do what they do. Now if these classes made dungeons a cake walk I would say yes nerf these classes.
But they dont.
So the Fighters must be buffed to be as valuable as other classes.
GF's need to have protection tree buffed. the Protection GF should be the greatest asset to a party and should be able to protect the group on his own as well as a DC heals them and keeps them alive. This would require like 100% active all the time knights valor.
Then the DPS GF is still viable in dungeons as it is now.
GWF's need to out damage CW's period. I would say buff all thier damage by a flat 30%. Make sure Sure strike is the #2 single target DPS at will behind the TR's, And not the worst single target DPS at will in the game. And focus most of the damage buff into the GWFS encounters and Dailies. I would say leave WMS and wicked strike alone to see how buff thier lesser used and constantly complained about powers go first.
BTW, I thought this was supposed to be a FIghters on Strike Thread.
I like this idea because I'm tired of my opionions and those of every other player in this game going unheard.
This should be the last thread for fighters. No other thread should be posted in. We should support this by posting a
...... Fighters on strike!
in other threads that are made and posted in other than this one.
To the point, everything you said is true.
Now I suggest this.
#StandUpAndFIGHT - Fighters on strike (Get it, Fight, we are fighters!)
If you support put this in your signature and/or post it everywhere you can.
[HTML]#StandUpAndFIGHT - Fighters on strike[/HTML]