@lobo - Keep up the good fight. GWF is in need of adjustments but until the devs stop playing TR and start playing a GWF it will not happen.
I started leveling my TR and am literally shocked at the difference in damage.
I'm on my second CW and second TR. Both have a considerable difference in damage output compared to the GWF. The CW, it's not so much that they just do more (not like the TR, who outhits all hands down), its that they do it from a long way away, often before the target can even get to them.
It can be really shocking going from GWF to those classes. But I'm kinda of the mindset, at least where CW's are concerned, that it's not the GWF/DC/GF that is out of scale, but the CW.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
Surprised to see this thread still going, but it keeps going because so many people have alot of bad things to say about the GWF class.
I quit GWF will never return now. I was holding out for the one redemption that a new Paragon path might change things for the GWF. And the devs dont even bother to make one for either fighter.
I have been playing my GF lately though and yup have to agree with all the GF fans out there it is a much better class. Sorry lobo but you have to give this one a serious shot. You can't say GWF is better till you have played GF, and a Good GWF player will make an AMAZING GF player. Especially if you love to tank. If you so much as accuse me of also being a bad GWF like you have done to so many others I will take you around the block on my GWF even though I have sold my weapon and armor enchants I will still school you.
- You don't care about the source material and how it says that a Great Weapon Fighter is a Defender.
- You don't care that in game, since the game legitimately went live, a Great Weapon Fighter has far more significant tank than any other class besides the other fighter, a Guardian Fighter.
- You don't care that in PvP a Great Weapon Fighter excels above all others on point defense due to their huge ability to soak damage.
So what point are you making?
- They are big guys with a long sword, and thus, should be damage.
1. Yes. I like game where I will have fun, not game where I will read manuals as mad and to cry as mad because someone have "1" def more than me.
2. You are in mistake that AoE and high DPS from which one you generate agro + high survivability = tanking. GWF is AoE class depend of build it can be for different things. CW generate agro from high DPS too and have very strong control on mobs - by your logic humm he is defender too ? He can easy defend DC - he is defender !!! ....
3.Sentinel is not the only way for PvP, I am Destroyer without any regen/life steal and I am fine. So to look only from your point of view and to tell on other that this is the only way is not helpful.
4.Yes. You can look around and to see how much ppl ask GWF to have more DPS - no ? So I am not the only one. If other ppl want it - do they care about your manual ? No ? Why ? They are stupid like me ? Everyone have desire ?
/do not want suggestion from other (me) - ok this is your right, np/
Goldheart starting any post by quoting another poster and saying Bla, bla bla will only lead to flames. It's not cool. But you are right to have the point that you see GWF's as damage dealers. So do most players in the game, when a GWF is invited to a party they are expected to deal damage. As no one sees any other uses for them as they have the least utility of the 5 classes. But GWF dont deal signficantly more damage than any of the other classes. All classes are steamlined in damage. No one is more significant than the other. But some show off better in specific situations. TR is soley Single target, while GWF is soley AOE. They are damage dealers that are complete oposite of each other. The problem is single target DPS is essential for boss fights and I see no reason why GWF single target powers fall behind all the other classes single target powers. Only DC doesnt have a host of good single target strikes, but there AOE is awesome and alot better than GWF's encounters. And above all understand that the poeple here posting want positive change in the game, even if you dont care about the game and can ditch it at any point.
I know this and I am agree with you, but some ppl like Lobo cannot understand what mean builds and that GWF have 3 and only one of them can make GWF defender.
Wizards in general had very low HP. Good team organization was needed to keep them alive, though they had a few spells such as Barkskin which allowed them a last-minute defense against a few attacks. Their defense was mostly in their choice of location on the battlefield, and the heavier classes standing between them and the enemy.
You have big misunderstanding what CW can - but read your manual maybe there is wrote ...
The two-handed sword has become more of the issue here. But dungeons and dragons has at least two classes built to use such a weapon: Fighter (a defender that can wear the heaviest armor), and Barbarian (a striker who is limited to lighter armor).
Yes and we have them both Sentinel and Destroyer... wait we have and Instigator oh too many ... Maybe "issue" is in your manual/head ?
I said you before I will tell you now too paper DnD =/= MMO NWO - do you accept it or not is your own problem. And I do not want to affect you this is just a reality. Paper DnD is most close to NWN. Bu you cannot have rules from NWN here because people will just exploit them as much as they can.
If you found that only Slam is the useful daily and all other are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> there is 2 ways:
1. you cannot make useful other dailys
2. other dailys are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
I think in other direction, every daily can be used in different situation. I normally use 2 dailys but they depend from my class futures. Because if you do not lock CF+Daily then dailys are not so effective. So again you can back little up to point 1 and 2 and to think for yourself. And btw I do not use Slam.
In all seriousness, it may be that the devs feel it does "a crushing amount of damage no foe can survive." Who knows. I know that a GWF that spec's all heroic feats into damage, maxes dexterity and strength, and properly stacks his destroyer feats with the appropriate encounters and class features, CAN do a solid amount of damage.
Just read the bold, what do devs and what is written in your manual are two different things - no ? Now you can back few pages back to read me again, that Cryptic do not do NWO as your manual want. And if you are angry on me sorry but I do not make the game I just play it.
On an aside, I do believe that paragon features should be an open set of options just like heroic. Instead of trying to push players into sub-classes of classes, let us pick and choose and mix and match as we wish. Remove the Destroyer, Instigator and Sentinel paths, leave the capstones and only allow the player to choose ONE capstone, but otherwise, have it so each player has to choose five ranks from the first row (Unstoppable Recover, Fleet Footed, Great Weapon Focus, Deep Gash, Student of the Sword, and Scale Agility), five ranks from the second row, five from the third, and five from the forth to reach one of the three possible capstones.
:X You want the game to be more unbalanced as it is now ? O.o
Cryptic make some kind of set items, but ppl exploit it and they use 2x2 parts from 2 set. If you want you can understand that ppl will exploit as much as they can, and because this paper DnD is not valid here. Paper is made by ppl that like to play and fun the game in strongly narrow way. Till ppl that play MMO just will exploit.
Right now, there are five classes, and four roles: striker, controller, leader and defender. An ideal party includes one of each, at least.
Yes this is true, and next one that is needed for one party is ... damage dealer one or 2 or X... - no ? As we know from any other MMO one defender is far than enough. So the Devs understand this very well. Because this reason ppl just add one more DD and because that the nerf on GWF is bad for the class. I really can't understand you why you want 2 defenders in one party. By your logic get 2 GF or 3 or 5 and go defend ... mobs. You can use more than one defender only on paper or in single game. Why you need second defender when CW can control all adds around ? You need more AoE to clean them not defender to defend someone your logic is broken... If you want to use second defender then you must remove or nerf CW control. Which one you want because you cannot have both define this but no to me but to Cryptic. I use what I have at moment that's all and I just want more DPS or something that will made GWF more valid and wanted for PVE. You are this one that cry paper this paper that...
A GWF is not a tank because he cannot replace a GF in it's tanking role. Try to have a GWF kite mobs in FH or Karr. You would think there run speed and mobility would make them good at this but no. To kite you need to make threat without getting too close to the 15 guys trying to kill you or you get hit 15 times. GF's have several powers to make threat at range. GWF have only slam that is good for kiting and does not make enough threat or let you target what mobs you want to pick up.
So yeah some dungeons will require certain classes or class combination, but never will that requirement be a GWF. Parties that say we need a GF or a GWF isn't looking for a tank they want a melee. Those are the groups I can use my GF in full DPS gear and show up most any other GWF they could of gotten.
Do you read this Lobo ? It is so simple said by Cyan.
Do you read this Lobo ? It is so simple said by Cyan.
Yep. Just read everything you posted. And I've made my arguments, and apparently we disagree. I'm perfectly fine with that.
On another topic: It seems hinted that they are swapping paragon paths between GWF and GF. As in, GF's might be able to pick Iron Vanguard OR Swordmaster. If GWF gets the same choice, I feel reasonably confident that this will further cement my points.
Iron Vanguard comes with the following abilities in GF:
- Frontline Surge: Knockback and Prone, encounter.
- Threatening Rush: Travel to opponent, mark nearby enemies. At-Will
- Indomitable Strength: Knockback and prone, daily.
- Enduring Warrior: Regain 1% max hp with each kill, class feature.
- Trample the Fallen: 5% more damage to foe affected by CC, class feature.
- Iron Vanguard: When you drop below 15% hp, regain 10% mad hp, opponent takes that much damage, and you get a 5 second DR buff, class feature.
So several knockbacks, several prones (put in with Takedown, and the complaints will really start in PvP), and more HP heals.
That is, of course, a bit IF they swap them over. There are so many paragon options for fighters, I don't know why they would simply intermingle them. We could have something really diverse with Dread Warrior and the like.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
It is quite possible that a GWF getting the GF paragon path could save the class. I constantly say that GWF's lack control powers. Iron Vangaurd gives the GWF instant AOE Encounter and Daily control.
However Terrifying Impact maybe more difficult for a GWF to use than a GF. I use terrifying impact alot, one of the few GF's that will use it for Damage instead of Villians menace. Both of them very good choices. Terrifying impact is easy to use If you have threat. You take a few steps back and if you have threat on 5 mobs they just line up perfectly for your daily as they chase you. GWF may not get the full power out of Terrifying Impact, Iron vanguard does not give GWF more threat like it does to GF. GF benefit more from the marking at will than GWF.
What could really tip the scale in favor of the GWF is If the benefits of a Greatswords damage compared to a Longswords is apparent depending on if a GF uses Frontline Surge or if a GWF does. Greatswords have 40% more base damage than a Longsword. If a GWFs Frontline Surge and Terryfing Impact deal 40% more damage than when a GF uses it. Then the GWF will have Encounters and Dailies worth stacking Recovery to use more often.
If this is not the case and the paragon paths are counterbalanced for the different weapon types then GWF is simply a dead class. If a GF can grab Swordmaster and Weaponmaster strike and Crescendo at Full GWF damage on these powers. What does the GWF have left? What is the point of Greatswords higher than normal base damage. When the GF steals the GWF's best moves the GF will truly be what I have always said, Can do all the damage and everything else a GWF can do as well as Tank, Buff Parties and Control mobs.
When players learn this you will see parties with Both Iron Vangaurd GFs and Swordmaster GF's and GWF will become a long distant memory a blight on the mark of the game designers who utterly failed at a simple bit of class balance, that countless players have asked for and pleaded for since the game Launched.
Well, I've got my DC to the cusp of T2 gear but have had enough of playing the dude that sits in the back chucking out buffs & debuffs. I wanted to roll a melee fighter, preferably a GF, and while I haven't spent a real-world cent on my DC, was willing to spend some zen on kitting out a melee fighter with a sweet mount and a quality companion. But now, this thread makes me disappoint. Also, I have noticed a proliferation of CWs and TRs in queues, so there is an issue with the melee characters I'd assume.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Well, I've got my DC to the cusp of T2 gear but have had enough of playing the dude that sits in the back chucking out buffs & debuffs. I wanted to roll a melee fighter, preferably a GF, and while I haven't spent a real-world cent on my DC, was willing to spend some zen on kitting out a melee fighter with a sweet mount and a quality companion. But now, this thread makes me disappoint. Also, I have noticed a proliferation of CWs and TRs in queues, so there is an issue with the melee characters I'd assume.
There is no problem with them, GF and GWF are atm rly fun and good to play. What u are seeing is that soldiers cant cheat or help in any way in that regard so u need cw and dc to get the job done. Noone is going to play with u when is so easy to kill the bosses with 3 cws CN/MC that is.
There is no problem with them, GF and GWF are atm rly fun and good to play. What u are seeing is that soldiers cant cheat or help in any way in that regard so u need cw and dc to get the job done. Noone is going to play with u when is so easy to kill the bosses with 3 cws CN/MC that is.
That is a problem though if the people running the juicy dungeons don't want you. I rely heavily on PUGs to run dungeons and while I don't struggle to get a group with my DC, it'd be a little frustrating if no one wants my shiny, kitted-out GF or GWF.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Then just play the fighter and dont pimp him out with all the AD gear you can get. GWF is fun to play people like instant mobility and you "feel" powerful when you use Unstoppable.
GF is very powerful solo and is just a Wall when you are leveling him up. GF is one of the most solid classes to level. You dont run away as a GF you simply push forward.
Epic dread vault, the least epic of all the epic dungeons.
Get OS-ed by a trash mob.
"Thoon hulk delivers 25k damage to you"
Happened thrice. OS-ed by a thoon hulk.
Now, apart from gwf, which class will ever notice the thoon hulks? Ranged classes are ranged. The current ones, and the incoming Ranger. GF has def, shield, hp pool. The thoon hulk is not delivering 35k or 65k. No, it delivers 25k. Exactly what a gwf has.
Epic dread vault, the least epic of all the epic dungeons.
Get OS-ed by a trash mob.
"Thoon hulk delivers 25k damage to you"
Happened thrice. OS-ed by a thoon hulk.
Now, apart from gwf, which class will ever notice the thoon hulks? Ranged classes are ranged. The current ones, and the incoming Ranger. GF has def, shield, hp pool. The thoon hulk is not delivering 35k or 65k. No, it delivers 25k. Exactly what a gwf has.
Great job devs, great job.
Why is 25k something your worrying about? Are you a destroyer or something?
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
25k will OS any gwf. You're never at 100% HP, you fluctuate between 25% and 75%. Comes a 25k hit, you're dead.
Oh, unless you're the P2W type of gwf, with all kind of zen thinggies. Soulforges of course, and also, what the name, stone of eternal life or something.
Taking damage instead of mitigating it is what the gwf is supposed to do. But if even the lower mobs of the lower dungeons routinely hit as a truck, then all you'll see in LFG chat will be "gwf LF 0/3, any t1/t2 dung"
25k will OS any gwf. You're never at 100% HP, you fluctuate between 25% and 75%. Comes a 25k hit, you're dead.
Oh, unless you're the P2W type of gwf, with all kind of zen thinggies. Soulforges of course, and also, what the name, stone of eternal life or something.
Taking damage instead of mitigating it is what the gwf is supposed to do. But if even the lower mobs of the lower dungeons routinely hit as a truck, then all you'll see in LFG chat will be "gwf LF 0/3, any t1/t2 dung"
Then you are doing something wrong.
Your geared all dps no defense?
You forget to use unstoppable?
Did you not see the big slow animation before the attack and not move?
Did you not see the big slow animation before the attack and not move?
I'm going to have to say I agree with Tarmalen here. Maybe not 'wrong', per se, but there are other experiences.
I have very high deflect (up to 50% in combat) and high defense. Even with a rogue with great ArP, I don't get one shot. I have standard 7's (no tene's) and only a greater thunderhead (no barkskin or soulforge). But with all that, I don't get one-shot.
I have been double teamed in PvP. I have been debuffed by a CW. I have died a lot of ways. But I have positively not been killed by a single player, either with one hit or one encounter rotation. Not to say it's not possible, but it simply has not happened to me.
I also have never been killed by a dungeon mob or boss in one hit, outside of the rare 'push me off a ledge' moment. I have literally stood in dragon's flight path on MC 3/3 to see if it would one-shot me. It did not, but I also know better than to try that too many times.
Now I'll agree with Vortix, taking damage is what a GWF is supposed to do. With my high deflect, I get unstoppable less often. But my survivability is extreme, without a single point in regen or lifesteal.
My personal secret? High deflect. Deflect boons from Sharandar. T2 GG Valiant set instead of the routine sentinel Titan/Avatar combo. I took the heroic feat which reduces incoming damage via combat advantage. And I use unstoppable differently than most I've seen. I only pop unstoppable at full determination bar to get the full 50% DR bonus (barring saving my life, that is).
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
Then just play the fighter and dont pimp him out with all the AD gear you can get. GWF is fun to play people like instant mobility and you "feel" powerful when you use Unstoppable.
GF is very powerful solo and is just a Wall when you are leveling him up. GF is one of the most solid classes to level. You dont run away as a GF you simply push forward.
Well, I rolled the GF. Quickly learnt that when they say ''tank'' they mean ''tank'', and that includes your play style; slow and deliberate. I started by running around swinging my sword at everything trying to rush but after going through potions like mad I realised I was doing something wrong. Now, I play slower but hardly need to use potions. Pretty cool ploughing on behind your shield seeing ''Blocked'', ''Blocked'', ''Blocked'' flashing everyhwere.
PvP is a bit of a problem though. I feel more useless there than I do with my main DC. Maybe I'll enjoy it more once I fully grasp the GF?
Sill need to get to grips with the mark/threat generation things as well as I noticed I was being ignored in Cloak Tower or struggling to keep the heavy-hitters focused on me and away from the CWs. Strangely though, sneaking around a map is almost impossible as the NPCs seem to smell GFs from across the map the minute you enter an instance.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Comments
I started leveling my TR and am literally shocked at the difference in damage.
I'm on my second CW and second TR. Both have a considerable difference in damage output compared to the GWF. The CW, it's not so much that they just do more (not like the TR, who outhits all hands down), its that they do it from a long way away, often before the target can even get to them.
It can be really shocking going from GWF to those classes. But I'm kinda of the mindset, at least where CW's are concerned, that it's not the GWF/DC/GF that is out of scale, but the CW.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
I quit GWF will never return now. I was holding out for the one redemption that a new Paragon path might change things for the GWF. And the devs dont even bother to make one for either fighter.
I have been playing my GF lately though and yup have to agree with all the GF fans out there it is a much better class. Sorry lobo but you have to give this one a serious shot. You can't say GWF is better till you have played GF, and a Good GWF player will make an AMAZING GF player. Especially if you love to tank. If you so much as accuse me of also being a bad GWF like you have done to so many others I will take you around the block on my GWF even though I have sold my weapon and armor enchants I will still school you.
1. Yes. I like game where I will have fun, not game where I will read manuals as mad and to cry as mad because someone have "1" def more than me.
2. You are in mistake that AoE and high DPS from which one you generate agro + high survivability = tanking. GWF is AoE class depend of build it can be for different things. CW generate agro from high DPS too and have very strong control on mobs - by your logic humm he is defender too ? He can easy defend DC - he is defender !!! ....
3.Sentinel is not the only way for PvP, I am Destroyer without any regen/life steal and I am fine. So to look only from your point of view and to tell on other that this is the only way is not helpful.
4.Yes. You can look around and to see how much ppl ask GWF to have more DPS - no ? So I am not the only one. If other ppl want it - do they care about your manual ? No ? Why ? They are stupid like me ? Everyone have desire ?
/do not want suggestion from other (me) - ok this is your right, np/
_________edit.
I know this and I am agree with you, but some ppl like Lobo cannot understand what mean builds and that GWF have 3 and only one of them can make GWF defender.
_________edit 2.
@Lobo You have big misunderstanding what CW can - but read your manual maybe there is wrote ...
Yes and we have them both Sentinel and Destroyer... wait we have and Instigator oh too many ... Maybe "issue" is in your manual/head ?
I said you before I will tell you now too paper DnD =/= MMO NWO - do you accept it or not is your own problem. And I do not want to affect you this is just a reality. Paper DnD is most close to NWN. Bu you cannot have rules from NWN here because people will just exploit them as much as they can.
If you found that only Slam is the useful daily and all other are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> there is 2 ways:
1. you cannot make useful other dailys
2. other dailys are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
I think in other direction, every daily can be used in different situation. I normally use 2 dailys but they depend from my class futures. Because if you do not lock CF+Daily then dailys are not so effective. So again you can back little up to point 1 and 2 and to think for yourself. And btw I do not use Slam.
Just read the bold, what do devs and what is written in your manual are two different things - no ? Now you can back few pages back to read me again, that Cryptic do not do NWO as your manual want. And if you are angry on me sorry but I do not make the game I just play it.
:X You want the game to be more unbalanced as it is now ? O.o
Cryptic make some kind of set items, but ppl exploit it and they use 2x2 parts from 2 set. If you want you can understand that ppl will exploit as much as they can, and because this paper DnD is not valid here. Paper is made by ppl that like to play and fun the game in strongly narrow way. Till ppl that play MMO just will exploit.
Yes this is true, and next one that is needed for one party is ... damage dealer one or 2 or X... - no ? As we know from any other MMO one defender is far than enough. So the Devs understand this very well. Because this reason ppl just add one more DD and because that the nerf on GWF is bad for the class. I really can't understand you why you want 2 defenders in one party. By your logic get 2 GF or 3 or 5 and go defend ... mobs. You can use more than one defender only on paper or in single game. Why you need second defender when CW can control all adds around ? You need more AoE to clean them not defender to defend someone your logic is broken... If you want to use second defender then you must remove or nerf CW control. Which one you want because you cannot have both define this but no to me but to Cryptic. I use what I have at moment that's all and I just want more DPS or something that will made GWF more valid and wanted for PVE. You are this one that cry paper this paper that...
Do you read this Lobo ? It is so simple said by Cyan.
Yep. Just read everything you posted. And I've made my arguments, and apparently we disagree. I'm perfectly fine with that.
On another topic: It seems hinted that they are swapping paragon paths between GWF and GF. As in, GF's might be able to pick Iron Vanguard OR Swordmaster. If GWF gets the same choice, I feel reasonably confident that this will further cement my points.
Iron Vanguard comes with the following abilities in GF:
- Frontline Surge: Knockback and Prone, encounter.
- Threatening Rush: Travel to opponent, mark nearby enemies. At-Will
- Indomitable Strength: Knockback and prone, daily.
- Enduring Warrior: Regain 1% max hp with each kill, class feature.
- Trample the Fallen: 5% more damage to foe affected by CC, class feature.
- Iron Vanguard: When you drop below 15% hp, regain 10% mad hp, opponent takes that much damage, and you get a 5 second DR buff, class feature.
So several knockbacks, several prones (put in with Takedown, and the complaints will really start in PvP), and more HP heals.
That is, of course, a bit IF they swap them over. There are so many paragon options for fighters, I don't know why they would simply intermingle them. We could have something really diverse with Dread Warrior and the like.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
However Terrifying Impact maybe more difficult for a GWF to use than a GF. I use terrifying impact alot, one of the few GF's that will use it for Damage instead of Villians menace. Both of them very good choices. Terrifying impact is easy to use If you have threat. You take a few steps back and if you have threat on 5 mobs they just line up perfectly for your daily as they chase you. GWF may not get the full power out of Terrifying Impact, Iron vanguard does not give GWF more threat like it does to GF. GF benefit more from the marking at will than GWF.
What could really tip the scale in favor of the GWF is If the benefits of a Greatswords damage compared to a Longswords is apparent depending on if a GF uses Frontline Surge or if a GWF does. Greatswords have 40% more base damage than a Longsword. If a GWFs Frontline Surge and Terryfing Impact deal 40% more damage than when a GF uses it. Then the GWF will have Encounters and Dailies worth stacking Recovery to use more often.
If this is not the case and the paragon paths are counterbalanced for the different weapon types then GWF is simply a dead class. If a GF can grab Swordmaster and Weaponmaster strike and Crescendo at Full GWF damage on these powers. What does the GWF have left? What is the point of Greatswords higher than normal base damage. When the GF steals the GWF's best moves the GF will truly be what I have always said, Can do all the damage and everything else a GWF can do as well as Tank, Buff Parties and Control mobs.
When players learn this you will see parties with Both Iron Vangaurd GFs and Swordmaster GF's and GWF will become a long distant memory a blight on the mark of the game designers who utterly failed at a simple bit of class balance, that countless players have asked for and pleaded for since the game Launched.
There is no problem with them, GF and GWF are atm rly fun and good to play. What u are seeing is that soldiers cant cheat or help in any way in that regard so u need cw and dc to get the job done. Noone is going to play with u when is so easy to kill the bosses with 3 cws CN/MC that is.
That is a problem though if the people running the juicy dungeons don't want you. I rely heavily on PUGs to run dungeons and while I don't struggle to get a group with my DC, it'd be a little frustrating if no one wants my shiny, kitted-out GF or GWF.
GF is very powerful solo and is just a Wall when you are leveling him up. GF is one of the most solid classes to level. You dont run away as a GF you simply push forward.
Get OS-ed by a trash mob.
"Thoon hulk delivers 25k damage to you"
Happened thrice. OS-ed by a thoon hulk.
Now, apart from gwf, which class will ever notice the thoon hulks? Ranged classes are ranged. The current ones, and the incoming Ranger. GF has def, shield, hp pool. The thoon hulk is not delivering 35k or 65k. No, it delivers 25k. Exactly what a gwf has.
Great job devs, great job.
Why is 25k something your worrying about? Are you a destroyer or something?
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Oh, unless you're the P2W type of gwf, with all kind of zen thinggies. Soulforges of course, and also, what the name, stone of eternal life or something.
Taking damage instead of mitigating it is what the gwf is supposed to do. But if even the lower mobs of the lower dungeons routinely hit as a truck, then all you'll see in LFG chat will be "gwf LF 0/3, any t1/t2 dung"
Then you are doing something wrong.
Your geared all dps no defense?
You forget to use unstoppable?
Did you not see the big slow animation before the attack and not move?
I'm going to have to say I agree with Tarmalen here. Maybe not 'wrong', per se, but there are other experiences.
I have very high deflect (up to 50% in combat) and high defense. Even with a rogue with great ArP, I don't get one shot. I have standard 7's (no tene's) and only a greater thunderhead (no barkskin or soulforge). But with all that, I don't get one-shot.
I have been double teamed in PvP. I have been debuffed by a CW. I have died a lot of ways. But I have positively not been killed by a single player, either with one hit or one encounter rotation. Not to say it's not possible, but it simply has not happened to me.
I also have never been killed by a dungeon mob or boss in one hit, outside of the rare 'push me off a ledge' moment. I have literally stood in dragon's flight path on MC 3/3 to see if it would one-shot me. It did not, but I also know better than to try that too many times.
Now I'll agree with Vortix, taking damage is what a GWF is supposed to do. With my high deflect, I get unstoppable less often. But my survivability is extreme, without a single point in regen or lifesteal.
My personal secret? High deflect. Deflect boons from Sharandar. T2 GG Valiant set instead of the routine sentinel Titan/Avatar combo. I took the heroic feat which reduces incoming damage via combat advantage. And I use unstoppable differently than most I've seen. I only pop unstoppable at full determination bar to get the full 50% DR bonus (barring saving my life, that is).
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Well, I rolled the GF. Quickly learnt that when they say ''tank'' they mean ''tank'', and that includes your play style; slow and deliberate. I started by running around swinging my sword at everything trying to rush but after going through potions like mad I realised I was doing something wrong. Now, I play slower but hardly need to use potions. Pretty cool ploughing on behind your shield seeing ''Blocked'', ''Blocked'', ''Blocked'' flashing everyhwere.
PvP is a bit of a problem though. I feel more useless there than I do with my main DC. Maybe I'll enjoy it more once I fully grasp the GF?
Sill need to get to grips with the mark/threat generation things as well as I noticed I was being ignored in Cloak Tower or struggling to keep the heavy-hitters focused on me and away from the CWs. Strangely though, sneaking around a map is almost impossible as the NPCs seem to smell GFs from across the map the minute you enter an instance.