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What is "Endgame"?
xhrit
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
In every mmo I have ever played there has always been a huge debate as to if the game's endgame is any good. What I want to know, what exactly is 'endgame'?
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IMO the endgame in NW is decent, but is still in need of improvement. It use to be terrible, but got better when they introduced Sharandar and GG.
I believe they plan to add more, so I expect it to get even better.
Endgame is whats left over after you have done everything?
So, endgame is a gear treadmill?
That strikes me as wrong - we should all be gearing up for endgame, not gearing up as endgame.
Well I sure hope so... ^^
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
Ancient Shadows: Mature. Sensible. Custard.
Recruitment info at: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?462591-Ancient-Shadows-Become-a-Lion-Tamer-without-learning-Chartered-Accountancy-first!&highlight=ancient+shadows
Epic dungeons? We have dungeons from lvl 12. I'll rather take my time thorugh the game, and enjoy all the dungeons instead of ignoring them to get to the epic ones in the end. The epic dungeons are my reward, not my main course.
Gauntlgrym? Not everyone cares about PvP. Besides, I've never understood why PvP has to be max level only. Why not add a levelcap to PvP zones, so you have one for lvl 10, one for lvl 15, one for lvl 20 and so on? Or at least do it the Starcraft-way, so I can be put in leagues with people that suck just as much as me.
Sharandar? Really looking forward to it, but I'm not in a hurry. Some things are worth the wait.
More sophisticated gear? I went into a meltdown of joy when I got a pirate hat at lvl 20-ish. Is that sophisticated enough for you?
So basiclly the level 10-19 bracket, 20-29 bracket, 30-39 bracket, 40-49 bracket & 50-59 bracket is not a levelcap for lower level pvp?
With the new module and better weapons I have taken up weaponsmithing to get the very best weapons on my GF/TR/GWF, and that will entail many runs of MC as well for fragments and offhands. I don't really care for the DC weapon/offhand and the CW is too little of an upgrade to warrant the AD and time it takes to level artificing so I'll probably leave those two alone. Just the time it will take to get fomorian weapon/offhand on those 3 characters will last me until the next content release most likely, and in the mean time I enjoy PvP with all my characters
Long story short even having reached "end game" with every class I am still enjoying the game and finding things to do that keep me playing. If you like the game then you will still enjoy end game.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
"Endgame is an affliction of many, if not all, MMOs, where players reach maximum level and run out of interesting things to do. Usually at about the same time.
It's due to the fact that quality content and meaningful long term character development are both difficult to design and create, and developers often substitute a small number of repeatable elements (e.g., grindable dungeons) for fresh content and a gear progression (ever higher numbers) to simulate continued character development in an eventually futile effort to retain the interest and attention of enough paying customers to keep the lights on.
It may be theoretically possible to sustain a small player base's long term interest through heavy investment in dynamic content creation (such as what a small table-top D&D group would do), but it also seems that the shear scale of current MMOs means their target playerbases have to include a lot of people who'll happily grind all day and really wouldn't give a whit for fresh content and meaningful progression even if it was created as fast as they could play through it, and was dumped right in their laps. Frankly, they'd rather just grind, it's easier."
The previous is a bit tongue-in-cheek; but I think there's some truth to it. I like a progression of quests and story development that most MMO's at least seem to have for leveling up; and I like the character development that comes with leveling to new powers and abilities. The latter is partly a lot of increase in power, but it's also new and interesting abilities that change the widen the ways that a character can be played. Most "End Game" systems don't really do that.
The difference between a character who's freshly at maximum level and one that's fully ground out best-in-slots gear is usually just a matter of more and higher, not actually better or different. The stories tend to come to a halt, too. Obviously, it costs a lot of developer time and labor to make quest-lines that make sense, are interesting plot-wise, and that have wide appeal. I hate to say this, but it's probably not cost effective. Many players I know don't even read quest dialogue; they're just grinding through it and tend to see it as an obstacle to overcome, not a journey to enjoy. Grind out the quests and levels to get to the end-game grind. I suppose that makes some sense, for that style of play.
An MMO takes dozens of people years to create. It has to have a lot of players who'll subscribe or buy items to make a return-on-investment; and that means it has to appeal to the lowest common denominator of a very large audience. That common denominator, so far as I see that the MMO world has turned out, is repetitious grind for steadily increasing numbers.
Nonexistent...
I'd say something witty... but it's late, my brain is mush, and I still have work to do. Just wanted to say I agree, before this thread drops off the front page of the forum and I forget ever creating it.
^^
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
It's when you stop playing the game.
"endgame" in Neverwinter also is being purple geared, run MOTH regularly and "need" on any blue item that drops.
and last but not least "endgame" in Neverwinter is playing your unbalanced highly geared class in pvp, smash the pugs and then wait 10 minutes alone with your team until the counter has run out because the other team has left completely or sits in their spawn area and wait for the match to be finished.
Sleep is for the weak soldier! Thats how we lost Castle Never in the first place. Back to your post.
Ancient Shadows: Mature. Sensible. Custard.
Recruitment info at: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?462591-Ancient-Shadows-Become-a-Lion-Tamer-without-learning-Chartered-Accountancy-first!&highlight=ancient+shadows
So what you're saying is you haven't reached end game and are getting smashed by players who started playing months before you? =P
As I said I think I've reached your definition of endgame on every single class, however I'm still enjoying this game very much. And no I don't enjoy smashing pugs, that's the biggest snoozefest in PvP when enemy team leaves b/c they got beaten in the initial engagement at 2. The real fun of PvP comes with 10 people of equal gear and skill playing against each other.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
*Puts out lower lip* but, but, id be sleepy. *Relents and trundles off grumbling* No one wants to live in that stinky castle anyhow. 'Cept old Valindra Smokeybutt, and she smells funny.
I thought the post where its mentioned was sarcasm
Ancient Shadows: Mature. Sensible. Custard.
Recruitment info at: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?462591-Ancient-Shadows-Become-a-Lion-Tamer-without-learning-Chartered-Accountancy-first!&highlight=ancient+shadows
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
Sure you can do all the instances, get all the achivements and hit max level BUT there will be an expansion and the "old end game" will have a new "end game"
The end game is usually the "end of the story" but with MMO, it doesn't really end per se. The Foundry provide many MORE stories if that is what you are looking for.
End game means different things to different people. Here are some example (it may be combine or stand alone depending on your taste)
- getting top gears
- complete all epic dungeon
- zero death in all dungeon (i.e. perfect run. there is an achievement in The Secret World when you do that)
- Complete all stories available at current patch/launch
- collect every single achievement
- collect every single "item of choice" (this could be pets for people, items, rings, armors, hats, costumes, mounts, whatever)
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
In here at least we have the foundry,so for those interested in not repeating the same dungeons everytime, it's a unlimited source for content.
In theory there is content that gets progressively harder and combines that with allowing you to gear up for the next successive one as they're launched.
In practice you'll find a broken gearscore system that gives access to dungeons in hard mode with the chance of having not seen them in normal thanks to an xp heavy levelling mechanic. You'll find what seems to be the majority of players wanting to do speed runs by exploiting design flaws that allow them to skip the trash mobs or think that experience means all knowledge is how to cheat your way to a boss kill.
When new content comes you'll look at the gear and realise that there isnt going to be a rise in gear quality, but hey thats fine there's not really content that demands top end gear. Or you may find as I did after unlocking malabogs castle that apparently the only way to beat the end boss without glitching it was to beat the gearscore by 4-5k, use BiS gear, etc (ironically the idiot that claimed that was wearing level 30 greens and had barely any enchants at all in the few purples equipped).
Your best bet for enjoying life at top level is to gear yourself to the level you feel comfortable with and spend time enjoying the foundry content as the majority of that shows how good quests can be and how zen store focussed the folks at cryptic are.
I'm in the middle-ground here. I don't read quest descriptions, yet I do enjoy the quests. One doesn't rule out the other. The reason is quite simple: While the story in a game can be interesting, I don't care at all why this farmer wants me to kill a few wolves, or why that lady wants me to go into a dangerous area to pick a few berries for her. I do it because I get paid, just like I would in real life. Literally. I used to work in an office, and when people asked me to do something for them, I usually did it without asking questions. "You want me to copy these papers? Sure, no problem." No need to tell me your life story while I'm doing it. I don't care.
But there's also the fact quest descriptions are often a looooong section of dry text, in an otherwise fast and colorful game. This is especially easy to tell if you play a RPG with full voice-over, like SW: The Old Republic. In SW:TOR, I actually cared a lot more about the side-quests I was doing, simply because people talked to me about them. They didn't ask me to stop and read a long section of dry text. It doesn't matter how fun and well-written the text might be. It's still just text. Listening to actual people is always preferabble to me - with subtitles, of course. That way I can listen to music when I want, and still get the quest description I need.
But honestly, most of it goes like this: I meet some guy I've never met before. I get a quick quest-description, then set off on my task. I later return to him, hand in the quest and never see him again. Why should I care to listen to why he wanted me to do whatever it is he wanted me to do, his life story and anything else he has on his mind? I just need directions and a goal. That's it. Save the story for, well, the story.
That's why I like the Foundry so much in this game. The Foundry is mostly pointless and stupid, but every now and then, you find an adventure someone put some effort into making. These makes it all worth it for me. Sure, they only last a short whlie, but I've had some of my best moments in thei game in Foundry-quests. Not because of the reward, or for feeling good when I donated a few ADs as a reward to the creator. But because they are well-written, fun to play and makes me care enough to get through them.
And that's what I don't get about the endgame in this game. If you have near infinite quests in the Foundry, why do people still complain about lack of content? How much content do people possibly want to be satisfied? Does everything have to be created by the developers to count as content?