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The Evil Ones
magnumstar
Member Posts: 226 Arc User
I've heard talk in game as well as on the forums of folks wanting an evil faction for Neverwinter. I know there are several evil factions in the Forgotten Realms setting but I doubt Cryptic will go that way with the game. But I do think they should add races that are seen as evil. I distinctly remember having a Gnoll contact somewhere that was an ally so the ability to play a Gnoll Huntsman isn't too far fetched. I also have a Kobold companion so a Slyblade Kobold could be possible as well. Personally I'd love to be able to play a Mindflayer, I always thought they were the coolest race in the Underdark.
Do you think they should add evil characters and why?
What evil race would you like to play and what class should they be?
Do you think they should add evil characters and why?
What evil race would you like to play and what class should they be?
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Grey Dwarves would be another. Orcs and Goblins still more. Half-orcs could go this way without issue.
Then let's not forget the primary evil race of the Neverwinter world, Humans. So ambiguous.
Meaning, it really wouldn't take a bunch of new, independent races to put in an Evil faction.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
True, but it couldn't hurt. I'd have to imagine that it'd be easier for Cryptic to insert some new races as opposed to new classes. Could bring a much needed breath of life to the game with a fairly minimal investment. As magnumstar mentioned, they already have skins for Gnolls, Kobolds and the like.
Not that I'm against factions, its not really my thing, and I dislike having populations divided based simply on character creation choices. Not to mention the problems of what to do with queues, you either suddenly become faction friends, for that one dungeon. Or you increase wait times over all. I do, however, understand the appeal of it.
That said, I'm sure solutions could be worked out. The problem I have with it. Is its just not something Cryptic is good at. And Id honestly rather they spend their development time in areas they do better with then to force something they will do poorly on, or struggle with. Just ask a friendly Klingon how satisfied they have been with the whole faction thing over the last few years.
Anyone can be saving kittens one day and tossing them into the volcano the next....and vice versy!!! If ya want to be EVIL, the next time a teammate dies....taunt them instead of rezzing.
Speaking of EVIL.....let's all go T.P. sockmunkey's house.
Neverwinter Wonderland
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Neverwinter 2nd Anniversary Montage
Neverwinter Anniversary Montage
Protector's Jubilee Speech
Oh the Carnage
See, see! I told ya....its the rabbit ears. They are evil!
Very true, I was using the term evil as those races are generally described as such in the D&D setting. Personally I like a more 3 dimensional approach to antagonists where the races/factions may have opposing goals rather than one is evil and the other good. I don't see any problem adding Goblins, Kobolds, Bugbears, Gnolls, Drow, or even Mindflayers as long as their goals align with the game setting.
As you have stated Cryptic has never been good with multiple factions so I'd rather them not try and do so. I'd rather see them add different races (Those that are generally considered evil or monsters) with unique classes that can be played. As valwryn has stated "evil is relative" so any race in the forgotten realms setting could be a player character.
And you can ask me about the Klingon faction on STO. That was my main faction, I only made a Fed toon and leveled it to 6 (back when that was possible before FTP went live) so I could make a Klingon. It was partially the disgust over Cryptic fed faction favoritism that I quit playing STO and started playing Neverwinter.
What Rabbit Ears? Think someone has eatin too many Sharandar mushrooms. :rolleyes:
Neverwinter Wonderland
Neverwinter Wet & Wild
Neverwinter 2nd Anniversary Montage
Neverwinter Anniversary Montage
Protector's Jubilee Speech
Oh the Carnage
i would like to play blackguard, evil faction who dont like valindril either.
necromancers and summoners, lot of other classes we did like to see.
'Da ears, 'dey are under 'da hat!
Which points out a glaring issue with factions: one side gets to be the so-called 'PvP Faction', and the other gets to be the punching bag.
With any kind of faction system, so I've observed, you'll see the common high-end pvp groups, in some kind of telepathic herd instinct, all choose the same side. This is not even the only observation, but WoW and the Horde are a prime example.
Right now, at least on Beholder, look at the Luskan Corsairs. Whether by actual aggreement or simply coincidence, almost all of the major pvp focused guilds have chosen to be Luskan, meaning that bouts are commonly one-sided (until UnS shows up, but I ain't bragging).
It's almost a given that if you add any kind of split faction, especially at character creation, it will quickly become split along those lines.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
To truly grasp the ability to play an evil character, they'd have to enact the game as a sort of sandbox environment, where you can make use of resources, locations, underlings, and so on. For instance, if you were a Necromancer, you might have to gather components to enact a ritual, kill a few guards to secure a location to perform it, study ways of binding what you are creating/summoning, then sending them off to perform the desired tasks. An assassin might have to convince some master assassin to train them, then make contacts and build their reputation, while also accepting and carrying out contracts.
To have the same system we have now, only with the flavor text and character models switched around, just wouldn't do evil characters justice, (pardon the pun).
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Thieves are good, they test peoples security and show them what they need to improve. They show them that wealth is only fleeting.
Necromancers are good, they give people a second chance to do something with life(ok, usually causing mass destruction but it's something) They recycle and reuse, saving species from extinction at the hands of Mages who kill things to get a small part for a spell component, leaving the rest to rot.
OK, guys at gaming always did say I had a different way of looking at things.
and I see directly after factions being instituted, the cries from the Pvp groups for world PvP, so they can attack anyone, anytime
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This is the main issue with so called evil factions in MMOs, they don't lend themselves naturally to the standard gameplay of an MMO. Hell, they barely lend themselves to video games in general.
I have come up with systems for an evil faction in MMOs, but they just boil down to other methods of disguising the questgivers so it feels like the villain is being proactive rather than reactive. So all in all, an evil faction wouldn't be that interesting to play in an MMO.
Agreed. The only way to really make it fit the current MMO mold would be to basically have the players knowingly divest much of their character concept and freedom, and basically become a lieutenant in an existing villainous faction - like basically becoming a servant of Valindra and having access to necromancy and so forth.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
This stuff is just not needed. Evil can be done plenty of ways without being 'stupid evil' where you have the option to do or kill everything you see. Take the setting where you become the 'hero of sleeping dragon bridge', for example:
This Valindra lich just had her pet sink your ship. Nearly killing you and destroying all your stuff. Even an evil scumbag has plenty of reason and motivation to take her down. Now imagine afterwards. You just saved the day, by trying to get revenge. Suddenly the townsfolk are calling you a hero. Before you can ruin it by saying something stupid, some guy comes up to you and asks you to meet his boss.
Upon doing so its mentioned that the "Lord Protector" and Waterdeep isn't the only faction looking to get a grasp on Neverwinter. They fill you in on some of the opposing groups. For now they ask you to play along with the hero role. All the while they give you side quests based on which evil faction you support.
*Yes, its joining an existing faction instead of being a free agent type. But even good characters are limited in the same way. You aren't running around doing whatever. Everything is thrown at you via Neverember's guard Knox. Don't really see it as any different*
That's basically what City of Villains did, and you end up feeling like a minion, doing your boss's bidding, the entire time. I'm not saying that they have to allow you to be able to kill "for the lolz", but you need to be able to develop plans and schemes in a way befitting your character's type of evil. A berserker type may be all about personal power and direct confrontations, while a necromancer may be about drawn out plans and the big picture. You may want to be more of a freelancer type, and build your own mercenary company, selling your services to the highest bidder. I don't want to *just* take mission A from contact B to go to location C and fight enemy D, then return with item E.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I agree an evil faction won't work but I was referring to the ability to play races that are generally seen as evil in a D&D setting. There's a Gnoll contact in the game and we can buy Kobold companions so to offer these as player races with their own unique classes wouldn't be too much of a stretch. Not all demi-humans or Goblinoids need be enemies of Neverwinter some I believe would align themselves with the Protectorate just as the Proudfist tribe did.
This is a problem with MMOs in general though. Not with villians in MMOs. My Control Wizard wouldn't act exactly the same as my Great Weapon Fighter. But in the end all of the good characters act like Neverember's minions. And as its mentioned several times in game, Neverember isn't exactly doing any of this out of the kindness of his heart. I think there is one line they just added, at the very end where they give you the option to tell Neverember that you are doing this for the people.
The mercenary thing actually sounds like an ok idea. And would fit into Neverwinter. With so many non-good factions trying to get control they could work it in. You'd think though, that the factions would eventually get tired of you flip-flopping though. That might be a good point to have the characters go back to working for Neverember. But handling his more 'shady' quests.
As I have stated in my original post I seriously doubt Cryptic would create an opposing faction. But what I was suggesting is the ability to play races in the forgotten realms setting that are generally seen as evil such as Gnolls, Kobolds, Goblins, MindFlayers, etc. These races would come with their own unique classes giving the game another element of play. For some reason these character have allied themselves with Neverwinter (The reason why will be left to the player). We already have renegade Drow so its not too much of a stretch to add more.
Now that is something I can get behind. We dont really need evil or a full on faction, just a little more choice. Not everyone is going to be a paragon of niceness. A separate arc with a few questionable or grey missions would be most welcome.
STO experimented a bit with this with Section 31 and did pretty well. They were always fun and maddening and just all kinds of entertaining. I cant recall the name of the guy in charge, but he always seemed to come off as the perfect smug magnificent badguy.
Wasn't his name Drake?
Thats it! Franklin Drake, a right and proper badguy!
My objection to what you pointed out is that from hero's perspective, you still have to go to location X and defeat villain Y, in order to accomplish goal Z. It doesn't matter if you're a wizard or a rogue - the means may be different, but the goal is the same. Such is not so with villains. To use my previous examples, the berserker may not care about ruling, as long as he can fight the strongest enemies and beat them. The necromancer probably has little interest in actually confronting his enemy directly, and would be just as happy to have some minion of his own dispatch the enemy or simply achieve immortality as a lich, and see that enemy grow feeble and die.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Now, I'm perfectly fine with other races being available for heroes. Though honestly, some races would have a harder time fitting in, what with being weaker, uglier (less charisma), etc, etc.
But hell, if the drow can become a full-time playable race in every DnD video game since R.A. Salvatore got his groove on and unintentionally made the exception the rule, anything is possible.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Yes he was a smug badguy, I found myself wishing I could shoot him after reading through the dialog. I like the idea of having shady quests in the game but I also hope they add some of the races I mentioned with unique classes to go with them.
Neverwinter Wonderland
Neverwinter Wet & Wild
Neverwinter 2nd Anniversary Montage
Neverwinter Anniversary Montage
Protector's Jubilee Speech
Oh the Carnage
The devs.
That would be nice. Plus, all the quests would be mirrored and reversed (Help the Blacklake rebels to break free from Necerwinter's oppression. Escort Karzov to a safe place. And so on). When rerolling a second char there would be no deja vu. The guards in Protector enclave would prevent you from entering the town.
Would be very cool. But this is the kind of thing that has to be designed right from the start.
I bet we will just keep getting a new mount skin every week.