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TRs useless in PVE
ryonas
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 158 Arc User
hi guys so here is my message to devs
thanks for the huge nerf on lurker assault and deadly momentum
1- Lurker Assault from 60% to 25% For Real
2- Deadly Momentum stack from 25% Crit severity to 15% (noting that it activates on duelist flurry a pve atwill not pvp atwill)
no body would use duelist flurry in pvp yet they nerf it --> ok so we got 10% cirt severity nerfed of our single dps
then they nerf the DAILY over 60% of its effectiveness that is the main contribution to a TR's damage burst in PVE
To test it --> i have my main tr 12k gs and made another one 9.7k gs
went and did SP with the main one it was ok not bad but not as fast as i used to take it down
went with the 9.7k gs took nine hells doing the last boss
so unless your TR is equipped with ancients and swash - pretty much thank the devs for HAMSTER every daily a trickster rogue would have
So my question is Guardian Fighters are Tanks --> ok
Great Weapon Fighters are Hybrid Tank with Aoe DPS --> ok
Cleric --> Healers over time with mediocre Defence ok
Control Wizards --> mediocre AOE DPS with Crowd Control
Trickster Rogues --> Worst Armor class in game , Lowest HP , No DPS , No Daily ??
what is the benefit of Trickster Rogues in PVE - please tell me when we got no decent daily
Trying to do class balances is great but the problem lies in the sets just like when Guardian Fighters had over 20k power with the stalwart set then they reworked it and not the conqueror class feats , the rogue pvp set needs a rework not the class powers and feats
i am truly frustrated with the nerf to the daily we have got no daily anymore and wish they tested it furthermore before pushing it to live servers
people keep screaming about rogues overpowered in pvp and yet they mess with the pve powers and feats and not rework the PVP SET and PVP feat tree builds (SCOUNDREL and Saboteur Feats)
thanks for the huge nerf on lurker assault and deadly momentum
1- Lurker Assault from 60% to 25% For Real
2- Deadly Momentum stack from 25% Crit severity to 15% (noting that it activates on duelist flurry a pve atwill not pvp atwill)
no body would use duelist flurry in pvp yet they nerf it --> ok so we got 10% cirt severity nerfed of our single dps
then they nerf the DAILY over 60% of its effectiveness that is the main contribution to a TR's damage burst in PVE
To test it --> i have my main tr 12k gs and made another one 9.7k gs
went and did SP with the main one it was ok not bad but not as fast as i used to take it down
went with the 9.7k gs took nine hells doing the last boss
so unless your TR is equipped with ancients and swash - pretty much thank the devs for HAMSTER every daily a trickster rogue would have
So my question is Guardian Fighters are Tanks --> ok
Great Weapon Fighters are Hybrid Tank with Aoe DPS --> ok
Cleric --> Healers over time with mediocre Defence ok
Control Wizards --> mediocre AOE DPS with Crowd Control
Trickster Rogues --> Worst Armor class in game , Lowest HP , No DPS , No Daily ??
what is the benefit of Trickster Rogues in PVE - please tell me when we got no decent daily
Trying to do class balances is great but the problem lies in the sets just like when Guardian Fighters had over 20k power with the stalwart set then they reworked it and not the conqueror class feats , the rogue pvp set needs a rework not the class powers and feats
i am truly frustrated with the nerf to the daily we have got no daily anymore and wish they tested it furthermore before pushing it to live servers
people keep screaming about rogues overpowered in pvp and yet they mess with the pve powers and feats and not rework the PVP SET and PVP feat tree builds (SCOUNDREL and Saboteur Feats)
Trickster Rogues Looking For A Daily
Post edited by ryonas on
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Comments
25% more damage is still quite alot if you ask, my 12k TR deals 16M on Draco in CN( with the high viz stacks ofc).
I even out DPS the CWs.
For sure our damage got reduced, but we are still the best single target class in NWO and no one can top that.
people keep shouting about us being op in PVP and we are still OP because the PVP SET T2 needs rework and the other 2 trees are not reworked as much as they did to executioner and still we can get a cw or dc half of their hp bar to half for the PVP feats and set have not been reworked when they did not do this to GF conqueror feats and instead reworked the Stalwart Set
I dont see problems in Feats and power as much i see problems in the sets not being tested
a proof of that when they wanted stealth deplete from atwills for people said the stealth build when the whole thing is dependent on the PVP SET not PVE but PVP and still they just screw PVE rogues and not re-balance PVP rogues
When you got new rogues going from T1 to T2 --> how they gonna get their T2 when the geared teams are doing MC and CN and no one bothers with T2 anymore and for the toppings Rogues PVE DPS getting nerfed how non ancient rogues with T1 sets gonna do T2
Sure us above 12k are fine but those doing T2 are creamed if not for a fact T2 dungeons need rework for not having content as much as T1 and CN had along with the infinite adds spawning dilemma
As for duelist flurry. Its good for both. If you want to maximize and squeeze out ever bit of damage you can.
Though I dont work on just that. So it depends on what people focus on.
Duelist Flurry is very bad in PVP, you will hit with it only if:
A. Your opponent just stays still.. literally just stands there and lets you hit them. (terrible, lazy or lagging pvpers) or people who fight back while you perform DF. (Unstoppable GWF, Rogue in ITC, etc...)
B. A teammate with a good hard CC sets you up.
There is no way to set up and land DF on your own, neither by stealthed Impact Shot nor by stealthed Smoke Bomb we TRs just ain't got any CC with a long enough duration to set it up. Anyone who says otherwise is all talk.
I use DF every single day in PvP and crush people with it.
Its only bad for bad TR's who dont know how to time it.
L2P duder
If you are a skilled rogue, you still get top DPS in PvE and you can still one-shot in PvP. If you can't, then maybe you should pick another class, since you clearly don't get it. Thinking you can put no effort into improving your gear and that you should still be top of everything is stupidity. On the other hand, if you are in all Tier 2 gear and still can't do these things.... you just don't understand how to play the class.
cryptic has ruined a class without calculating the numbers for undergeared sure geared rogues are fine my main rogue is doing still ok but those who are still new in game how they gonna get their T2 gear when they can not do it - they got no DPS and lurker assault is useless
To me it seems rogues are now just fun to play class in PVP knock other classes in PVP and useless in PVE
i think ur confusing geared and well feated with skilled, honestly with my t1 set, GG weapons (no vopral) and dps feats i cant oneshot anyone even if im waiting for a prev cos crit unless i pop lurker, which i can pop maybe twice in a domination game.
U either have the gear or u dont, coz skill wont suddenly make ur crits 10k harder.
There is nothing wrong the TR what so ever. Even in undergeared up and coming TR's. ---->When played right <----
TR's were never defined by Lurkers. Ever. It allowed us to 1 shot people in PvP, and greatly increase dps in PvE.
Lurkers is still amazing, and still greatly increases dps in PvE, and same for PvP, albeit a little lower on the hits.
DF took a slight nerf, in my experience it is no where near what all the emo babies said it was going to be.
Granted my GS is high, but no one will out dps me single target other then another TR with swash, and a g-vorp or higher that actually knows how to play his class.
Instead of crying on the forums making yourself look stupid, how about you go play more, and maybe, just maaaaybe you might learn something.
Alysin Chains
Mindflayer
EoA
My suggestion if you don't like your TR is level another class you do like in PvE (don't choose GWF lol...) and keep your TR for PvP. The only time I ever do PvE on my TR is if a CN 1/4 group needs a runner
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
The cry of under geared rogues are bad is just an excuse. And one of my rogues arent even offensively geared.
Duelist Flurry in PVP is usable and effective in multiple situations. I wont give any insight on how to, just that it is.
One of my rogues use duelist flurry, the other doesnt.
You ain't hittin' a decent player with a DF unless they let you.. i stand by what I said.. all talk.
Then you dont know how to play your TR very well and you need more practice.......
Edit: Again I stand by it.. all talk.
I have 5 or 6 premade vs premade videos waiting for me to upload when I get home. I'll post for ya
Just because "you" cant do it doesnt mean it cant be done.
In the mean time, I recommend you practice DF..Its grossly effective in PvP.
Alysin Chains
Mindflayer
EoA
Edit: I'm doing quite ok in PVP, I'm far from the best and far from fully geared, but I think I'm doin' fairly well.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I know a few hardcore PVPers and I have yet to see someone claim as above that they can land it at-will and as easily as the guy mentioned.
I've never heard of that guy or a single person in that PVP match lol
Lets not put words in my mouth k thx`
I didnt say it was easy to land. Its not like I'm holding my drool cup button mashing and killing people with it.
Its definately situational and takes alot of practice to get the timing down, only a fool would say otherwise. That being said, situational can be determined by how you play.
Perfect example:
Using LoS, peaking around a corner, hiding behind the enemies cap pillar, start your DF while they are coming up the stairs, they dissappear from your view behind the pillar, pop stealth, bam. They run right into your DM/DF.
GOOD pvpers in a 1 vs 1 fight will avoid at all costs DF, because they know how deadly it is. Eventually they "will" come in close and if you are timing it right, they will get hit with it. Or...you die trying, its obviously a finicky ability to perfect so ya win some and lose some, and try and learn from your mistakes next go around.
Fighting a GF. Dodge his bullrush, start your DF at range straifing in a semi circle, jump foward after 2nd DF into DF animation and generally even a good GF will be trying to use lunging strike at you, you'll take dmg, but he'll get nailed with DM/DF. I slot dazing so I like to follow up DF with dazing, then LB. Its a rare even a highly geared GF can take this combo full hits and survive.
Anyway talk is cheap, I'm at work now but I'll post some videos of premades and pugs soon as I get a chance.
If you are on mindflayer and havent seen me in a match then you must not pvp very often....Or differant time zone.
I'm usually on from 8am to 5pm when I can at work.
Are you suggesting that TRs only useful for being fun class in PVP and exploiting and not clearing .. ??
if you are suggesting that then you are proving my words are right that cryptic destroyed the class
As i have said before i have got 12k gs tr and he can still clear everything being equipped with t2 swash , ancients , stone of allure pretty much superb and it got affected of-course by the patch but not that much since it can still pretty much dps ya 2/3 of my damage gone for lurkers nerf is too much
so i wanted to see how much is that nerf so i went and made another rogue and tried it out in party for t2 and it is absolutely horrible for under-geared before you speak as pro and say learn class and keep smashing about not being pro with class or what so ever - go do another rogue and try to gear it up T2 for speaking loud is the easiest to be done but doing is another thing
and what you gonna say is one word ( it is a disaster) - don't test it as geared rogue but as under-geared rogue for it is a whole different matter when you have got in T2 Frozen Heart Someone kiting as well as CW using ice storm with synced smoke bomb in Temple of spider , with Karr doing it legit with flamespikers spell immune to CW and just being aoe damage accompanied with prones and you are under-geared and not having the dps to clear most of that asap for being the DPS class then there is a problem there is no good switch from T1 to T2 accompanied with a daily's nerf then it is an absolute disaster needless to mention having CW spells not affecting immune adds and just being aoe damage some serious rework needs to be done in T2 along with class balances
I'm on Dragon same user name.
they nerf was a pve nerf they nerfed every classes ability to dps and crit slightly some more than others I suspect this is an effort to make dungeons seem harder without needing to resort to "more adds" they also gave most classed subtle non crit related buffs.
gwf now have a interrupt/debuff a lot of these changes are more beneficial to pvp and not as important in pve.
which is why I say this was NOT A PVP NERF
Nah thats not my intention
When I said bad I was meaning bad with DF. I highly recommend everyone practice with it, but thats "my" playstyle and theres plenty of rogues who are epic who dont use it.
OP states Rogues are useless in PVE.
Though I don't agree with the term useless, it is true that Rogues were hit hard by the nerf hammer in PVE, undergeared Rogues are suffering from this most of all.
I'm doing my best to see your point of view, as thats all I can do because my gs is 12.5. But. I still am not seeing how this "nerf" is killing undergeared TRs.
Less dmg on Lurkers..Ok. How often do you get to use Lurkers in a boss fight, 2-3 times? So for that 3 minutes you are doing a bit less dmg. Ok, not game breaking imo.
Duelist Flury bleed stack change. Dmg nerf yes, again. I am still not seeing it as game breaking. Without any actual parsers pre-nerf from a 9-10k gs TR, and post-nerf, how can one really even tell?
The main problem I see is now people are all asking for 12k+ GS to run simple T2s.(which is beyond ridiculous) A fix for that would be to join a good guild, that is willing to help there members out. I would absolutely run any dungeon, and so will any of my guildies, to help out a lesser geared new player in our guild. Thats the whole point in having a guild.
what you saying is good ya getting with geared team members of course gonna help you get it done but here is the thing when you check your dps using ACT software and try to crunch your dps loss it is huge not just normal this nerf is pve nerf and rogues are still op in PVP and people gonna say nerf rogues and when they (Devs) do it they do it in executioner (PVE Tree) not the scoundrel path or sabouter the Stealth Rogue build which is what people are screaming about is now more OP than ever in PVP with the GWF nerf in unstoppable or i should say fix.
i am just saying that because i am truly mad for when the problem is in PVP set not feats and they still dont see it but the stalwart set was easily seen.
like the whole stealth build is about staying invis and that is what the set is giving them bonus 25% stealth bar ==> of course they gonna be stealthed tons and wont be easy to get them that is what i am trying to say, yet the nerf is done to PVE.
every class got its cons and advantage and as of right now i don't see the advantage of having rogues in PVE for when you nerf the assassin class in DPS with that magnitude what is the benefit for the team having it among them.
moreover the switch from T1 to T2 is bad needless to mention that T2 does not have content as what T1 and CN have. So that nerf is not hitting top geared rogue as much it is hitting under-geared rogue you have got 12k gs rogue great unequip your gear and make your gs 9k and check your dps in Temple of Spider or Frozen Heart doing it legit and give us your feedback
First off joining a Guild won't help you very much, I've been through some good Guilds and I still PUG for the most part to farm gears. Guilds just can't accomodate you, and most Guildies won't even run with you when you're undergeared in the first place. In fact I've even tried to join one of the top tier PVE guilds once. It is on my first and still only char and I was grinding for my gears, I was wearing all purple's at that time, full Skulker's and all Ancient Jewelry, but couldn't afford a Purple shirt and pants just yet and was grinding for it. Know what they told me.. "You're still wearing your level 1 shirt and pants its embarassing." take it from someone who worked their way up with little to no help..
By the way most people don't even run with TRs who can't exploit.. YES.. they want you to run the entire dungeon to the last boss or ditches you. PEOPLE ASK FOR IT, PEOPLE ASK YOU TO EXPLOIT OR WON'T RUN WITH YOU.
Second, you will be using Lurker's Assault "ALOT" if you are any good of a Rogue, even at 20% bonus damage as it is now, you will know that it is still your best sustained DPS daily for anything that you don't have to dodge too much. We all also know that you get 3 DFs and 1 Encounter max during the whole duration of Lurker's Assault (Lurker's Assault already times out during the 3rd DF but you still got nuff stealth to pop an encounter), minus 1 DF for however many times you have to dodge or reposition but bottom line is its still the best DPS skill you've got for anything that gives you enough of an opening.
Duelist Flurry, was actually fixed, but the increase in duration between ticks.. was a huge DPS loss and didn't help any combined with the other nerfs, not even gonna mention the nerf to the Deadly Momentum feat. It was not just fixed no it was also nerfed, it had to be nerfed in addition to being fixed? Well..
Besides that there is also the nerf to TRs benefit from power.. I.. couldn't do the math on that, but its still something to take onto consideration.
Edit: In the end.. they add up and they add up hard. as for other dailies heck Lashing Blade hits harder than Shocking Execution, Whirlwind of Blades (on 1 target) and Wicked Reminder in PVE.. Bloodbath actually deals more damage assuming you can get all the hits on 1 target, which more often than not you can't in PVE.. so Lurker's Assault is still the go-to PVE daily.