Alot has been said and to clear things up since most people dont play TRs here not every lashing blade can crit for 20k plus. Even with a perf vorpal. What enables those crits is two things:
1) Critical overrun. This feat gives your next attack AFTER getting a crit additional damage. Its the last feat in the executioner tree.
2) First Strike is a feat that gives your FIRST attack in combat an additional 15% damage boost.
Without these two things I crit dummies in ToB for 15k with a lashing. So how do you use those things together? This is something the "infamous" blacksheep didnt take advantage of.
When you throw a dagger and it crits, you get critical overrun. Now your NEXT attack gets additional damage (based on your crit severity). Ok cool, so how does first strike work with that because now your in combat? Well... you wait about 3 seconds in stealth and bam your out of combat, now you get BOTH the critical overrun AND first strike, congrats 20k+ crit.
So is that pay to win considering ive NEVER seen anyone outline that or even use that strategy before?
Also, I have a sent tene gwf so this TR isnt my one trick pony. Ive played TONS of "high level" matches and while the game changes some, I can 1 shot almost ANY CW out there and if I dont they have a small sliver of health. i can crit full defensive classes with my lashing for 15k on average (GFs/DCs included) and my Impacts crit anywhere from 4.5-7k on those same players. You do the math. MAYBE 2 impact shots and 1 lashing and its over UNLESS they deflect which happens alot less often than you think.
The issue people SEEM to forget is that each class excels at certain things. TRs are killing machines, they are not the best solo players so why play like a backcapper? Can they do it? Sure, but Ive never been beaten 1v1 on my GWF against a TR, so why would I even try to beat a geared good GWF on my TR? makes no sense. Play the ROLE your class is designed to do a TR isnt designed to stand toe to toe or 1v1 a geared GWF who is also skilled.
It also shows ignorance when people say "glass canon" because I didnt have to give up any defensive qualities to play this character, I use the GG set which gives MORE stealth and MORE hp... I use Shadow Strike to refill my stealth so I can live longer (sometimes use ITC depending on who I am playing) and I also have regen rings but dont think its worth it for what I give up on offense. The best defense IS a good offense in most TR cases, but this character didnt sacrifice anything to do this damage, unless you say add defensive slot rings with more HP what is 3k more Hp gonna do against a GF who can perma stun you 1v1 to death? Nothing.
http://youtu.be/mromSo3f4Dc is a quick vid of me 1v1 a Sent GWF with Regen. Dont really know the GS but you can see the play style idea and unless a Sent GWF uses their daily or is stacked with tene and those proc, its hard to kill me...
The basic idea is play the role of your class, a Sent regen GWF is a backcapper, a Executioner TR excels best at killing/1 shotting targets, a CW is good damage and CC, a Gf is a stunbot, and DCs well... they just keep players like me alive longer so I can 1 shot more people.
I have fought some very geared players of all classes, and both won and lost. This TR isnt about 1v1ing anyone though... If they know your there and its a fair 1v1... Your not doing it right...
Thank you for the detailed information.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
The only true problem I see with this video is Lashing Blade, which has become the most common skill on every TR that I've seen. It seems that it's the only skill that can deliver instant 35-50k damage to a target right out of stealth. The 10k+ impact shots weren't as bad as the LS that he was constantly doing. It's obvious that this skill is way too powerful to say the least. Even an ungeared TR can hit most players for over 15K with a single LB. I have a TR myself, and I can clearly say that this skill needs to be looked into by the devs.
Again I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt here but what your are saying is ignorant about how TRs LB works.
The only way you can get over 30k is with Lurkers which I would say SE is a better daily in alot of situations now. Without it most TRs are lucky to go over 20k on a lashing. I also outlined HOW to get over 20k lashings in my last post which isnt the easiest thing to do in most situations AND it does take considerable skill yo do (compared to almost anything else ive seen or done in this game)
Now how do you get over 30k? and Just FYI if you dont believe me on the 30k thing, ask TRs their highest crit on a dummy AFTER LA nerf cause it wont be over 33k.
Now to get over 30k you need to have significant debuffs and guess what! TRs cant debuff targets as executioner spec so it comes down to another class or enchant to do that.
So the 35-50k crit is only after some1 debuffs a traget which means they have done SOME damage AND its a 2v1 secnario... well even if the TR crit you for 20k if its 2 ppl focusing a person even a BiS defensive character will drop pretty darn fast. So the amazing crit damage is really just overkill...
Its just like SE (which DOES need a range nerf) in that the only way you see massive crits is when the player has a sliver of life... So is it insane damage? Sure! But does it make a difference that your crit for 30k or 10k when you have 5k HP? Not really....
I am NOT saying Lashing shouldnt be fixed, I actually thing all that needs to happen is remove the 100% crit in stealth and give it some other benefit and then you just removed consistent 1 shotting from the game since most TRs have roughly 50% crit... that just cut that in half...
0
adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2013
Cool video and thanks for the upload. This is exaclty the reason why i dont do pvp. Being only a 'medium geared' mage, getting 1-shotted with lashing blade by some overgeared paypal-rogue is no pvp for me.
If you dont want to nerv this skill in general, then at least do it for pvp.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
^ This seems to explain that balance does exist and no one has an unfair advantage. You perma controlling them, they perma stunning you. You one-shot them and they one shot you.
^You can believe what you want and it is your choice. No reason to waste time arguing with you. I will not claim something is true or false because it is a matter of opinion. I have just seen much fewer one-shot kills when my team mates are higher level geared and it became rarer for me to be one shot killed as my GS went up. Only teams that seem to be able to consistently one-shot kill people on the Dragon shard are teams made of the lemonade stand guild. Players that spec for offense give up defense because its balance.
^Too many nerfs can do the same thing by making pve too difficult to do. It is basically a double edged sword to be honest. The description of pvp in your first response makes pvp appear to be balanced. I agree that pvp is basically balanced between the classes. The majority of people who call for nerfs want them for their own gain and not because of a huge advantage between the classes. I have even been defending other classes that people started wanting nerfed.
There is no balance when there is no strategy involved. That's just luck and i wouldn't call that balanced. The issue isn't the vast majority of the skill trees, it's more some very specific skills with an extreme damage output: stealth + lashing blade, ray of enfeeblement + ice knife, eye of the storm + ice knife, knight's challenge + anvil of doom, or indomitable strength alone, or just the conqueror spec, for GFs. It's rarely one spell, most of the issues come from damage buffs + high burst damage spells that were not designed to be used with so powerful buffs.
The fixes aren't that difficult to find, but it's going to be hard to fix anything without having rivers of tears on the forums for weeks, even if it wouldn't "break pve" at all. Like nerfing crit severity, the conqueror spec tree, and/or changing how damage buffs stacks.
There is no balance when there is no strategy involved. That's just luck and i wouldn't call that balanced. The issue isn't the vast majority of the skill tree, it's more some very specific skills with an extreme damage output: stealth + lashing blade, ray of enfeeblement + ice knife, eye of the storm + ice knife, knight's challenge + anvil of doom, or indomitable strengh alone, or just the conqueror spec, for GFs. It's rarely one spell, most of the issues come from damage buffs + high burst damage spells that were not designed to be used with so powerful buffs.
I agree but I dont know any good GFs using KC + Anvil as that would be a HUGE waste of 2 encounter slots that are VERY situationally limited.
I agree but I dont know any good GFs using KC + Anvil as that would be a HUGE waste of 2 encounter slots that are VERY situationally limited.
That's just an example, i've made some tests, but with conqueror + knight's challenge + anvil of doom you can do up to 30-40k damage on players. Without knight's challenge, conqueror alone is already vastly overpowered anyway.
0
kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
There is no balance when there is no strategy involved. That's just luck and i wouldn't call that balanced. The issue isn't the vast majority of the skill trees, it's more some very specific skills with an extreme damage output: stealth + lashing blade, ray of enfeeblement + ice knife, eye of the storm + ice knife, knight's challenge + anvil of doom, or indomitable strength alone, or just the conqueror spec, for GFs. It's rarely one spell, most of the issues come from damage buffs + high burst damage spells that were not designed to be used with so powerful buffs.
The fixes aren't that difficult to find, but it's going to be hard to fix anything without having rivers of tears on the forums for weeks, even if it wouldn't "break pve" at all. Like nerfing crit severity, the conqueror spec tree, and/or changing how damage buffs stacks.
Interesting post. No balance when there is no strategy involved? This seems to mean no balance when there is no skill involved. Players can develop skills to strategically counter heavy damage classes. Examples are a CW remaining near team members instead of being alone where it can be singled out and killed by a player that is heavier geared or players changing powers/adapting when facing different classes or players continue to move so they are a moving target. Too many players go with the same powers all the time instead of adapting to the classes they are facing. Too many players stay standing still instead of moving and dodging.
I change my powers depending on what class or gear level I am facing. I usually start off with the encounters smoke bomb, path of blades, and impact shot. Path of blades is low continuous damage when it is active and leaves me open to attack or defend. I switch to dazing strike, lashing blade, and impact shot if I plan on taking out single targets or heavy geared opponents. It all depends on what I am facing in PVP. I am actually surprised how effective the powers smoke bomb and path of blades seem to be when I play as a team member instead solo killing. Smoke bomb stuns the opponents for my team members and path of blades weakens the opponents for my team members. The at-wills I generally stay with are Gloaming Cut or Duelist fury and COS. Impact shot compensates for the nerf done to COS. More players should change their powers depending on what they are facing PVP.
Note: I also have a CW that is currently lvl 20 I am slowly working on leveling/developing it. CWs can be beasts with the right player and gear. My next class will be GF or DC depending on what is needed in my guild.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
There is no way to counter stealth on a messy battleground, or at the begining of a pvp match. There is no way not to be permastunned. Well, when you're a CW yourself, you can, to some extent, but it's still very limited. When i say high GS pvp is very brutal it means high damage everywhere, and since DR doesn't increase a lot with higher GS, you're taking a lot of it, constantly. It means everyone at the respawn often, no matter how good you are, and maybe 1s to do your kill before you get killed. Not really my definition of fun.
0
kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
There is no way to counter stealth on a messy battleground, or at the begining of a pvp match. There is no way not to be permastunned. Well, when you're a CW yourself, you can, to some extent, but it's still very limited. When i say high GS pvp is very brutal it means high damage everywhere, and since DR doesn't increase a lot with higher GS, you're taking a lot of it, constantly. It means everyone at the respawn often, no matter how good you are, and maybe 1s to do your kill before you get killed. Not really my definition of fun.
When it comes to stealth and CWs I have been hit by Ice Storm, Arcane Singularity (Granted ITC stops it), and Icy Terrain (ITC again). A good CW has even been able to get me with Entangling Force while I was stealthed and that shocked me. I agree stealth can be difficult to counter on a messy battleground but it can be done. There are limited ways to avoid being permastunned as well. Timing a dodge to escape or using ITC if you are a TR. It really takes precise timing and skills to do it.
Honestly, do not play PVP if you do not find it fun. PvP's is players fighting players while capping and defending points. Players are suppose to kill each other and it is not players standing around singing or knitting.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
When it comes to stealth and CWs I have been hit by Ice Storm, Arcane Singularity (Granted ITC stops it), and Icy Terrain (ITC again). A good CW has even been able to get me with Entangling Force while I was stealthed and that shocked me. I agree stealth can be difficult to counter on a messy battleground but it can be done. There are limited ways to avoid being permastunned as well. Timing a dodge to escape or using ITC if you are a TR. It really takes precise timing and skills to do it.
Honestly, do not play PVP if you do not find it fun. PvP's is players fighting players while capping and defending points. Players are suppose to kill each other and it is not players standing around singing or knitting.
Fortunately, such pvp matches are quite rare. Players with 12k GS or so aren't that common. But it's really broken around this GS.
lol so many butthurt people its amazing, imagine if this was an FPS forum and some guy would post a frag clip of him just running around with sniper rifle headshotting people, I wonder if they cried for nerf and said it involves no skill lol.
I don't know what games all the QQers played before this but the purpose of a pvp clip (in ANY video game) is to showcase personal highlights, not freaking game balance, not boring content, not struggling gameplay.
The clip had subtle editing, good music and good content, that's what you should criticize, instead you trash talk the player for no reason.
lol so many butthurt people its amazing, imagine if this was an FPS forum and some guy would post a frag clip of him just running around with sniper rifle headshotting people, I wonder if they cried for nerf and said it involves no skill lol.
I don't know what games all the QQers played before this but the purpose of a pvp clip (in ANY video game) is to showcase personal highlights, not freaking game balance, not boring content, not struggling gameplay.
The clip had subtle editing, good music and good content, that's what you should criticize, instead you trash talk the player for no reason.
The point of most people is that looking at a montage of someone oneshotting people (no combat, just the few seconds of the one-shot) from stealth IS boring.
The video about him vsing the sentinel GWF was more fun.
The point of most people is that looking at a montage of someone oneshotting people (no combat, just the few seconds of the one-shot) from stealth IS boring.
The video about him vsing the sentinel GWF was more fun.
lol so many butthurt people its amazing, imagine if this was an FPS forum and some guy would post a frag clip of him just running around with sniper rifle headshotting people, I wonder if they cried for nerf and said it involves no skill lol.
I don't know what games all the QQers played before this but the purpose of a pvp clip (in ANY video game) is to showcase personal highlights, not freaking game balance, not boring content, not struggling gameplay.
The clip had subtle editing, good music and good content, that's what you should criticize, instead you trash talk the player for no reason.
Lantis, you know first hand how much people love to criticize pvp gameplay. They did it on my Sent GWF video, and now this. This is why I even said let the flame begin!
You hit it right on the head, these videos arent about game balance, arent about "skillful" gameplay since there is hardly a situation that requires "skill" gameplay. There are only rare moments where you can really see a players awareness and those types of moments only can be seen though full pre vs pre matches which are insanely boring.
The problem is, like I pointed out, each class excels at certain things in a match. PART of being a good player is knowing not only who you are playing against but also who you are playing with. I have my GWF for pug solo que and play my TR when I am playing with a team. His role is a TEAM based role and that role is executing/1 shoting a target. Either burn the CWs or DCs down first.
We have other GWFs who backcap. We have other players who hold nodes, so if I am ever in a 1v1 situation, im playing my TR wrong. His job is kill, and kill he does very well.
If I can ever get in a match where players stay longer than 2 min, I can try and make a video out of it, but then the flame wont be about how OP my character is, itll be about how boring the 22min+ of gameplay was and how there was "no skill" and the "class makeup gave us the edge" or how "my team carried me" or blah blah blah....
My only hope is there are people that just enjoyed the footage and saw it for what it was. Just something to entertain you for ~7min that was fun to watch.... I think I accomplished that.
0
dante123plMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 282Arc User
And I would say that playing my TR actually does take more skill to play at its capacity. I outlined what you have to do in above comments about what it takes to SET UP damage, and also time what abilities you use when. YOu can just walk up out of the blue and hit "lashing blade" and they are dead. It takes set up to do and it requires watching the CD/timing on stealth AND your CoS charges AND your crit overrun buff.
The EXACT reason I play my TR is because it takes more skill to play. I get on my GWF to faceroll ppl because its a pure gear play at that point. Its hard to kill me and I do insane damage with Tene...
On my GWF, I just try to get in range of a player then spam my encounters. I think playing a GF (I also have one at 60) takes the least skill to play, then GWF then TR is the most to play at max capacity. I have not tried a CW or DC so I wont comment there.
0
dante123plMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 282Arc User
And I would say that playing my TR actually does take more skill to play at its capacity. I outlined what you have to do in above comments about what it takes to SET UP damage, and also time what abilities you use when. YOu can just walk up out of the blue and hit "lashing blade" and they are dead. It takes set up to do and it requires watching the CD/timing on stealth AND your CoS charges AND your crit overrun buff.
The EXACT reason I play my TR is because it takes more skill to play. I get on my GWF to faceroll ppl because its a pure gear play at that point. Its hard to kill me and I do insane damage with Tene...
On my GWF, I just try to get in range of a player then spam my encounters. I think playing a GF (I also have one at 60) takes the least skill to play, then GWF then TR is the most to play at max capacity. I have not tried a CW or DC so I wont comment there.
i just love to see a sentiniel in action ,nice video
I think playing a GF (I also have one at 60) takes the least skill to play, then GWF then TR is the most to play at max capacity. I have not tried a CW or DC so I wont comment there.
Agreed. In terms of maximum potential difficulty in pvp: DC > TR > CW > GWF > GF.
But realistically in most pugs, i.e. "expected" or average difficulty: DC > GWF > GF > CW > TR. This is because there is so little coordination, that TR's and CW's are given free rein to run around easily using their classes specialisms to wreak havok on a battlefield. It also takes either a very geared and/or skilled GWF to make a noticeable difference in a pug.
DC is really a special case. It is living nightmare to both build one for pvp (the best pvp options are not suitable for pve at all and can include a re-roll), survive long enough to make *any* impact due to heavy focus fire and then play it well enough to consistently be a pivot in a match. This is especially the case since Feywild because many of their healing and damage abilities have been broken.
at 04:32 to 05:00 he LITERALLY didn't move, you can pull the same move with just 1 hand, you find that more exciting? k
Oh my god!!! Lol.
30 seconds he doesn't move in 5 minutes of video? What a shame!
Actually, what i like about that video is at least watching him exchanging blows, Killing and almost getting killed (you see his hit points dropping dramatically in many occasions.
Heimdall video is just the same as the rogue: a compilation of him jumping on a player and facerolling him (the rogue 1 shots him, but the result is the same).
So yes, even if it's a sentinel GWF, the video i posted to me is actually more entertaining. It shows something more than just a player jumping on another player and easily Killing him, then next scene him doing that again, then him doing that again, and again, and again.
Also: i don't know about rogues, but from what i know, playing a GWF requires skill. You're slow, and an easy target. Plus your encounter animations are so slow and easy to dodge that it makes you laugh.
Sure, playing a SENTINEL GWF does not require much skill. Cause you're just like a end boss walking into the brawl and Killing people. Even more if you've tenebrous stacked. But playing a destroyer or a hybrid in PvP and do well, requires skill. Else, you just get killed over and over again.
I'd say, even more skill than a TR. Cause you can't dodge, you can't go ITC, you can't smoke screen, you can't go stealth, you can't attack from range. You've to be careful, know how to time your Attacks to hit the enemy, know how to fool a CW or a TR so that they don't dodge all your encounters making you waste them. You've to time your unstoppable so that you can maximize your damage instead of just popping it and unload your encounters at the same time, lowering their damage.
Just my opinion, but unless you play a full snetinel with tenebrous with 37k HP and top gear, you need a lot of tactic and skill to be effective as a GWF. Else, as said, you just get easily killed before you can even land 1 hit.
30 seconds he doesn't move in 5 minutes of video? What a shame!
Actually, what i like about that video is at least watching him exchanging blows, Killing and almost getting killed (you see his hit points dropping dramatically in many occasions.
Heimdall video is just the same as the rogue: a compilation of him jumping on a player and facerolling him (the rogue 1 shots him, but the result is the same).
So yes, even if it's a sentinel GWF, the video i posted to me is actually more entertaining. It shows something more than just a player jumping on another player and easily Killing him, then next scene him doing that again, then him doing that again, and again, and again.
Also: i don't know about rogues, but from what i know, playing a GWF requires skill. You're slow, and an easy target. Plus your encounter animations are so slow and easy to dodge that it makes you laugh.
Sure, playing a SENTINEL GWF does not require much skill. Cause you're just like a end boss walking into the brawl and Killing people. Even more if you've tenebrous stacked. But playing a destroyer or a hybrid in PvP and do well, requires skill. Else, you just get killed over and over again.
I'd say, even more skill than a TR. Cause you can't dodge, you can't go ITC, you can't smoke screen, you can't go stealth, you can't attack from range. You've to be careful, know how to time your Attacks to hit the enemy, know how to fool a CW or a TR so that they don't dodge all your encounters making you waste them. You've to time your unstoppable so that you can maximize your damage instead of just popping it and unload your encounters at the same time, lowering their damage.
Just my opinion, but unless you play a full snetinel with tenebrous with 37k HP and top gear, you need a lot of tactic and skill to be effective as a GWF. Else, as said, you just get easily killed before you can even land 1 hit.
Very interesting that you first say you do not know about rogues and then claim it takes more skills to play a GWF than a TR. GWFs have heavier armor, unstoppable, Steel Grace, Sprint, Bravery, Flourish, Crescendo, and often have higher hp. Steel grace is not ITC but it mitigates the duration of controlling effects by 30%. Sprint enhances a GWf's run speed allowing the GWF to ignore speed reducing effects to rush targets or avoid attacks. True a GWF can not dodge but they can use sprint. Bravery increases deflect and run speed by 15%. Flourish and Crescendo are both used to stun other players. The argument that GWFs take less skill than TRs can be made when in fact it takes different skills. Players should keep in mind a class requiring a different skill set does not mean it requires less skills. <- I am sure several people will flame over this when it is true.
The sentinel GWF build is a beast like some of the cookie cutter TR builds. In my opinion it takes tactics and skills to be effective in any class if you do not use a highly effective cookie cutter build like the sentinel GWF or permastealth TR builds.
Note: The list of what GWFs have is just a list and not specifically what sentinel GWFs use. This is like the list of what TRs have in pando83's post.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
0
kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Du[m]bstep shouldn't be mistaken for music. There's nothing good about it, at all.
"Burrrrps, waddaddada, burrrrrrrrps waddaddada..." sounds like my dishwasher when it's pumping water.
I still wonder after several years who came up with such brainless noises and then dared calling it music.
But hey, it fits the TR stereotype perfectly.
I can not stand dubstep at all and I always turn my speakers down whenever I access videos like the TR video or the GWF video. Give me rock or classical any day. lol.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
0
dante123plMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 282Arc User
Very interesting that you first say you do not know about rogues and then claim it takes more skills to play a GWF than a TR. GWFs have heavier armor, unstoppable, Steel Grace, Sprint, can stun people, and often have higher hp. Steel grace is not ITC but it mitigates the duration of controlling effects by 30%. Sprint enhances a GWf's run speed allowing the GWF to ignore speed reducing effects to rush targets or avoid attacks. True a GWF can not dodge but they can use sprint. The argument that GWFs take less skill than TRs can be made when in fact it takes different skills. Players should keep in mind a class requiring a different skill set does not mean it requires less skills. <- I am sure several people will flame over this when it is true.
The sentinel GWF build is a beast like some of the cookie cutter TR builds. In my opinion it takes tactics and skills to be effective in any class if you do not use a highly effective cookie cutter build like the sentinel GWF or permastealth TR builds.
im pretty sure none of the senti GWFs use steel grace
0
kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
im pretty sure none of the senti GWFs use steel grace
Added a note clarifying it a bit. Thanks for pointing it out as confusing.
The list of what GWFs have is just a list and not specifically what sentinel GWFs use. This is like the list of what TRs have in pando83's post. Players should keep in mind a class requiring a different skill set does not mean it requires less skills.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
0
dante123plMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 282Arc User
Added a note clarifying it a bit. Thanks for pointing it out as confusing.
The list of what GWFs have is just a list and not specifically what sentinel GWFs use. This is like the list of what TRs have in pando83's post. Players should keep in mind a class requiring a different skill set does not mean it requires less skills.
if u want to know its Weapon Master and Bravery
0
kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'll research it more when I roll a GWF because honestly sentinel GWFs are a beast even after the nerf. In my opinion, they dominate even more than TRs in PVP. I have seen them take on 3 to 4 players at the same time and survive. Even heavily geared TRs would be killed off quickly if they were attacked by 3 to 4 players at the same time. I was able to solo a sentinel GWF using lurker's assault before the nerf and it was a 50/50 chance who would die first. Now it is in the favor of the sentinel GWF when facing one with my 13k GS TR. Yet you do not see my asking for GWFs to be nerfed because nerfs will hurt everyone and not just the sentinel GWF build.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
I wrote "i'd say" cause that was not a sure statement but more of a guess, and i explained the reason. Just wanted to reply to the guy who wrote that playing a GWF in PvP requires no skills or few skills. Actually i explained in details why instead you need skills to play a GWF.
May be players are too used to overgeared GWF sentinels to think how a regular GWF build plays.
I agree with king. Different classes just require different skills.
I made this account just now to point out a few things...
<snip>
8. you may ask why im coming at you like this ? You post a video boasting of some sort of skill and power ( soft targets, team focusing targets though out the video ).... Don't go to stand on the pedestal without preparing yourself for the cold hard truth.
1 through 7 may have a lot of truth to them, but 8 clearly is not.
He just made another pvp video, not made any claims. Otherwise, in 6 pages, you can guarantee the amount of vitriol he would have received would have been exponentially worse!
So, you made an account just to spout some pointless hate and you STILL watched his video!
0
rojorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 178Bounty Hunter
edited September 2013
12.9k gwf here and i still get 30k critted from similarly geared rogues, cap the damage problem solved.
Comments
Thank you for the detailed information.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Again I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt here but what your are saying is ignorant about how TRs LB works.
The only way you can get over 30k is with Lurkers which I would say SE is a better daily in alot of situations now. Without it most TRs are lucky to go over 20k on a lashing. I also outlined HOW to get over 20k lashings in my last post which isnt the easiest thing to do in most situations AND it does take considerable skill yo do (compared to almost anything else ive seen or done in this game)
Now how do you get over 30k? and Just FYI if you dont believe me on the 30k thing, ask TRs their highest crit on a dummy AFTER LA nerf cause it wont be over 33k.
Now to get over 30k you need to have significant debuffs and guess what! TRs cant debuff targets as executioner spec so it comes down to another class or enchant to do that.
So the 35-50k crit is only after some1 debuffs a traget which means they have done SOME damage AND its a 2v1 secnario... well even if the TR crit you for 20k if its 2 ppl focusing a person even a BiS defensive character will drop pretty darn fast. So the amazing crit damage is really just overkill...
Its just like SE (which DOES need a range nerf) in that the only way you see massive crits is when the player has a sliver of life... So is it insane damage? Sure! But does it make a difference that your crit for 30k or 10k when you have 5k HP? Not really....
I am NOT saying Lashing shouldnt be fixed, I actually thing all that needs to happen is remove the 100% crit in stealth and give it some other benefit and then you just removed consistent 1 shotting from the game since most TRs have roughly 50% crit... that just cut that in half...
If you dont want to nerv this skill in general, then at least do it for pvp.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
There is no balance when there is no strategy involved. That's just luck and i wouldn't call that balanced. The issue isn't the vast majority of the skill trees, it's more some very specific skills with an extreme damage output: stealth + lashing blade, ray of enfeeblement + ice knife, eye of the storm + ice knife, knight's challenge + anvil of doom, or indomitable strength alone, or just the conqueror spec, for GFs. It's rarely one spell, most of the issues come from damage buffs + high burst damage spells that were not designed to be used with so powerful buffs.
The fixes aren't that difficult to find, but it's going to be hard to fix anything without having rivers of tears on the forums for weeks, even if it wouldn't "break pve" at all. Like nerfing crit severity, the conqueror spec tree, and/or changing how damage buffs stacks.
I agree but I dont know any good GFs using KC + Anvil as that would be a HUGE waste of 2 encounter slots that are VERY situationally limited.
That's just an example, i've made some tests, but with conqueror + knight's challenge + anvil of doom you can do up to 30-40k damage on players. Without knight's challenge, conqueror alone is already vastly overpowered anyway.
Interesting post. No balance when there is no strategy involved? This seems to mean no balance when there is no skill involved. Players can develop skills to strategically counter heavy damage classes. Examples are a CW remaining near team members instead of being alone where it can be singled out and killed by a player that is heavier geared or players changing powers/adapting when facing different classes or players continue to move so they are a moving target. Too many players go with the same powers all the time instead of adapting to the classes they are facing. Too many players stay standing still instead of moving and dodging.
I change my powers depending on what class or gear level I am facing. I usually start off with the encounters smoke bomb, path of blades, and impact shot. Path of blades is low continuous damage when it is active and leaves me open to attack or defend. I switch to dazing strike, lashing blade, and impact shot if I plan on taking out single targets or heavy geared opponents. It all depends on what I am facing in PVP. I am actually surprised how effective the powers smoke bomb and path of blades seem to be when I play as a team member instead solo killing. Smoke bomb stuns the opponents for my team members and path of blades weakens the opponents for my team members. The at-wills I generally stay with are Gloaming Cut or Duelist fury and COS. Impact shot compensates for the nerf done to COS. More players should change their powers depending on what they are facing PVP.
Note: I also have a CW that is currently lvl 20 I am slowly working on leveling/developing it. CWs can be beasts with the right player and gear. My next class will be GF or DC depending on what is needed in my guild.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
When it comes to stealth and CWs I have been hit by Ice Storm, Arcane Singularity (Granted ITC stops it), and Icy Terrain (ITC again). A good CW has even been able to get me with Entangling Force while I was stealthed and that shocked me. I agree stealth can be difficult to counter on a messy battleground but it can be done. There are limited ways to avoid being permastunned as well. Timing a dodge to escape or using ITC if you are a TR. It really takes precise timing and skills to do it.
Honestly, do not play PVP if you do not find it fun. PvP's is players fighting players while capping and defending points. Players are suppose to kill each other and it is not players standing around singing or knitting.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Fortunately, such pvp matches are quite rare. Players with 12k GS or so aren't that common. But it's really broken around this GS.
I don't know what games all the QQers played before this but the purpose of a pvp clip (in ANY video game) is to showcase personal highlights, not freaking game balance, not boring content, not struggling gameplay.
The clip had subtle editing, good music and good content, that's what you should criticize, instead you trash talk the player for no reason.
The point of most people is that looking at a montage of someone oneshotting people (no combat, just the few seconds of the one-shot) from stealth IS boring.
The video about him vsing the sentinel GWF was more fun.
I like this video, for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNtbBpLUNAc
nice montage
really? a sent gwf clip? really??
at 04:32 to 05:00 he LITERALLY didn't move, you can pull the same move with just 1 hand, you find that more exciting? k
Lantis, you know first hand how much people love to criticize pvp gameplay. They did it on my Sent GWF video, and now this. This is why I even said let the flame begin!
You hit it right on the head, these videos arent about game balance, arent about "skillful" gameplay since there is hardly a situation that requires "skill" gameplay. There are only rare moments where you can really see a players awareness and those types of moments only can be seen though full pre vs pre matches which are insanely boring.
The problem is, like I pointed out, each class excels at certain things in a match. PART of being a good player is knowing not only who you are playing against but also who you are playing with. I have my GWF for pug solo que and play my TR when I am playing with a team. His role is a TEAM based role and that role is executing/1 shoting a target. Either burn the CWs or DCs down first.
We have other GWFs who backcap. We have other players who hold nodes, so if I am ever in a 1v1 situation, im playing my TR wrong. His job is kill, and kill he does very well.
If I can ever get in a match where players stay longer than 2 min, I can try and make a video out of it, but then the flame wont be about how OP my character is, itll be about how boring the 22min+ of gameplay was and how there was "no skill" and the "class makeup gave us the edge" or how "my team carried me" or blah blah blah....
My only hope is there are people that just enjoyed the footage and saw it for what it was. Just something to entertain you for ~7min that was fun to watch.... I think I accomplished that.
So you would like my GWF video better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEX1HJOt5Bc
And I would say that playing my TR actually does take more skill to play at its capacity. I outlined what you have to do in above comments about what it takes to SET UP damage, and also time what abilities you use when. YOu can just walk up out of the blue and hit "lashing blade" and they are dead. It takes set up to do and it requires watching the CD/timing on stealth AND your CoS charges AND your crit overrun buff.
The EXACT reason I play my TR is because it takes more skill to play. I get on my GWF to faceroll ppl because its a pure gear play at that point. Its hard to kill me and I do insane damage with Tene...
On my GWF, I just try to get in range of a player then spam my encounters. I think playing a GF (I also have one at 60) takes the least skill to play, then GWF then TR is the most to play at max capacity. I have not tried a CW or DC so I wont comment there.
Agreed. In terms of maximum potential difficulty in pvp: DC > TR > CW > GWF > GF.
But realistically in most pugs, i.e. "expected" or average difficulty: DC > GWF > GF > CW > TR. This is because there is so little coordination, that TR's and CW's are given free rein to run around easily using their classes specialisms to wreak havok on a battlefield. It also takes either a very geared and/or skilled GWF to make a noticeable difference in a pug.
DC is really a special case. It is living nightmare to both build one for pvp (the best pvp options are not suitable for pve at all and can include a re-roll), survive long enough to make *any* impact due to heavy focus fire and then play it well enough to consistently be a pivot in a match. This is especially the case since Feywild because many of their healing and damage abilities have been broken.
Oh my god!!! Lol.
30 seconds he doesn't move in 5 minutes of video? What a shame!
Actually, what i like about that video is at least watching him exchanging blows, Killing and almost getting killed (you see his hit points dropping dramatically in many occasions.
Heimdall video is just the same as the rogue: a compilation of him jumping on a player and facerolling him (the rogue 1 shots him, but the result is the same).
So yes, even if it's a sentinel GWF, the video i posted to me is actually more entertaining. It shows something more than just a player jumping on another player and easily Killing him, then next scene him doing that again, then him doing that again, and again, and again.
Also: i don't know about rogues, but from what i know, playing a GWF requires skill. You're slow, and an easy target. Plus your encounter animations are so slow and easy to dodge that it makes you laugh.
Sure, playing a SENTINEL GWF does not require much skill. Cause you're just like a end boss walking into the brawl and Killing people. Even more if you've tenebrous stacked. But playing a destroyer or a hybrid in PvP and do well, requires skill. Else, you just get killed over and over again.
I'd say, even more skill than a TR. Cause you can't dodge, you can't go ITC, you can't smoke screen, you can't go stealth, you can't attack from range. You've to be careful, know how to time your Attacks to hit the enemy, know how to fool a CW or a TR so that they don't dodge all your encounters making you waste them. You've to time your unstoppable so that you can maximize your damage instead of just popping it and unload your encounters at the same time, lowering their damage.
Just my opinion, but unless you play a full snetinel with tenebrous with 37k HP and top gear, you need a lot of tactic and skill to be effective as a GWF. Else, as said, you just get easily killed before you can even land 1 hit.
Very interesting that you first say you do not know about rogues and then claim it takes more skills to play a GWF than a TR. GWFs have heavier armor, unstoppable, Steel Grace, Sprint, Bravery, Flourish, Crescendo, and often have higher hp. Steel grace is not ITC but it mitigates the duration of controlling effects by 30%. Sprint enhances a GWf's run speed allowing the GWF to ignore speed reducing effects to rush targets or avoid attacks. True a GWF can not dodge but they can use sprint. Bravery increases deflect and run speed by 15%. Flourish and Crescendo are both used to stun other players. The argument that GWFs take less skill than TRs can be made when in fact it takes different skills. Players should keep in mind a class requiring a different skill set does not mean it requires less skills. <- I am sure several people will flame over this when it is true.
The sentinel GWF build is a beast like some of the cookie cutter TR builds. In my opinion it takes tactics and skills to be effective in any class if you do not use a highly effective cookie cutter build like the sentinel GWF or permastealth TR builds.
Note: The list of what GWFs have is just a list and not specifically what sentinel GWFs use. This is like the list of what TRs have in pando83's post.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
I can not stand dubstep at all and I always turn my speakers down whenever I access videos like the TR video or the GWF video. Give me rock or classical any day. lol.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Added a note clarifying it a bit. Thanks for pointing it out as confusing.
The list of what GWFs have is just a list and not specifically what sentinel GWFs use. This is like the list of what TRs have in pando83's post. Players should keep in mind a class requiring a different skill set does not mean it requires less skills.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
I'll research it more when I roll a GWF because honestly sentinel GWFs are a beast even after the nerf. In my opinion, they dominate even more than TRs in PVP. I have seen them take on 3 to 4 players at the same time and survive. Even heavily geared TRs would be killed off quickly if they were attacked by 3 to 4 players at the same time. I was able to solo a sentinel GWF using lurker's assault before the nerf and it was a 50/50 chance who would die first. Now it is in the favor of the sentinel GWF when facing one with my 13k GS TR. Yet you do not see my asking for GWFs to be nerfed because nerfs will hurt everyone and not just the sentinel GWF build.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
May be players are too used to overgeared GWF sentinels to think how a regular GWF build plays.
I agree with king. Different classes just require different skills.
1 through 7 may have a lot of truth to them, but 8 clearly is not.
He just made another pvp video, not made any claims. Otherwise, in 6 pages, you can guarantee the amount of vitriol he would have received would have been exponentially worse!
So, you made an account just to spout some pointless hate and you STILL watched his video!