Just occurred to me on my last post, so I thought I'd quote it here.
Your entire argument is moot to begin with.
BIS is a constantly moving target in any MMO. BIS is only BIS until the next content patch, and then the next one after that. What if someone wanted to sue Blizzard because their T2 armor they worked so hard for was made obsolete by content expansions? Where would that go?
The point being is that you spent money on something you should have known was going to be obsolete at some point regardless...the "balance" patch doesn't change any of this.
You'll never have BIS, so don't ever spend more than you're willing to lose to try to get there.
Like...real money.
I understand all that except for the "i should have known" part. That i dont get. How should i have known that? How could anyone predict the future? It is moot though. PWE doesnt care about HAMSTER there customers, as most businesses dont. Only using them up. Not matter, i was raised to understand something far more important. Taking something of someone else s without there consent is stealing.
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
Regardless, I feel for the OP.
Here's an encouragement: The average disgruntled customer tells 9 people about a bad business experience. So spread the word.
It's painfully obvious the Cryptic ticked off a huge portion of its player base. Word is quickly spreading about how they hugely screwed over their customers. It's only going to hurt them in the long run.
I, like always, will keep my wallet closed and encourage others to do the same.
I understand all that except for the "i should have known" part. That i dont get. How should i have known that? How could anyone predict the future? It is moot though. PWE doesnt care about HAMSTER there customers, as most businesses dont. Only using them up. Not matter, i was raised to understand something far more important. Taking something of someone else s without there consent is stealing.
A T1 set of armor out performed and was more desired then any other set, including all T2.
Can you honestly say you are truly blindsided by a change that fixes that?
Obviously i will need a refund and this ride is over. Is the best way to go to contact my bank? And go through those channels instead of even attempting to work with cryptic?
You could do a charge-back BUT legally speaking you don't have a case if PWE choose to pursue you for fraud. The terms and conditions basically say that they can change anything at any time, and this is standard for all online MMOs. I am not aware of anyone ever getting into trouble for this for an MMO, and a lot of people did it after the Caturday debacle, but understand that there is at least a theoretical risk.
Ignore the idiotic advice from aerisod - any lawyer will tell you that the terms and conditions you accepted mean you are not entitled, legally speaking, to a refund. So there is no need to throw good money after bad. If you have a lawyer buddy of course check with him, but I am pretty certain that is the response you will get.
DISCALIMER: I am not a lawyer, just someone who has to deal with corporate law for my work. This is not meant to be taken as legal advice, blah, blah, blah.....
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I understand all that except for the "i should have known" part. That i dont get.
Is this your first ever MMO?
EDIT: And yes, if you dispute a charge on your account, PWE will automatically ban your account. So if you're absolutely sure you never, ever want to play again, file the dispute for what it's worth.
Here's an encouragement: The average disgruntled customer tells 9 people about a bad business experience. So spread the word.
It's painfully obvious the Cryptic ticked off a huge portion of its player base. Word is quickly spreading about how they hugely screwed over their customers. It's only going to hurt them in the long run.
I, like always, will keep my wallet closed and encourage others to do the same.
Yup, gotta keep the wallet closed. This is proof that the money is not well spent. Moving forward its clear that what you pay for can be changed, or even removed all together with no refund on the purchase. Thats about as low class as it gets in my book. I have been ripped off, as many others im sure have also been with this game. I will concede that no one made my open my wallet to begin with, but this IS blatant IMO.
EDIT: And yes, if you dispute a charge on your account, PWE will automatically ban your account. So if you're absolutely sure you never, ever want to play again, file the dispute for what it's worth.
Yes sir first MMO
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited August 2013
Sorry for that, then.
Yeah, stuff in MMO's change ALL THE TIME...it's why you have to be really careful with what you buy. Nothing is ever the same.
Honestly, sincerely sorry about that. I'm sure your buying decisions would've been a lot different if you had known nothing ever stays the same, better gear is always added and nothing is ever "the best" for long.
Personally, I'd turn over a new leaf. Keep your account, keep playing (you don't want to totally throw away all your money) but keep in mind when you swipe the credit card that nothing is ever permanent. That's why they're all "virtual" goods
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
0
firesoul31Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 34
edited August 2013
Here's the great thing about F2P, you feel you got ripped off? Feel free to keep playing, keeping their expenses going while you play for free.
At the end of the day, buyer's remorse/beware is part of all online games now.
If enough people leave, don't play the game any more, either Cryptic will change the game or have to shut it down. If they change, you can come back FREE of charge and if they don't then they lose and have to shutter the game. Either way, something will have changed.
Playing, paying & Coding - My take on Neverwinter, mods be darned
Opened up comments, because I would love to hear what everyone says, even the naysayers. http://goo.gl/TiX1kO
0
nick1sternMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 330Bounty Hunter
Yeah, stuff in MMO's change ALL THE TIME...it's why you have to be really careful with what you buy. Nothing is ever the same.
Honestly, sincerely sorry about that. I'm sure your buying decisions would've been a lot different if you had known nothing ever stays the same, better gear is always added and nothing is ever "the best" for long.
Personally, I'd turn over a new leaf. Keep your account, keep playing (you don't want to totally throw away all your money) but keep in mind when you swipe the credit card that nothing is ever permanent. That's why they're all "virtual" goods
Well it sounds like a stretch but the change to the equipment isnt really the problem, i expect those kinds of changes. Its making sure they allow the users of changed item to remove there enchantments without paying for there mistakes on item creation. Thats the key, players must be able to remove there enchants for free without cost to them. Short of that it is defined as outright stealing.
Thanks for all the feedback, moving forward i will not be spending another dime as long as pwe reserves the right to strip players of there real money purchases.
Well it sounds like a stretch but the change to the equipment isnt really the problem, i expect those kinds of changes. Its making sure they allow the users of changed item to remove there enchantments without paying for there mistakes on item creation. Thats the key, players must be able to remove there enchants for free without cost to them. Short of that it is defined as outright stealing.
You still have the enchants. The armor, while no longer BIS is still functional and far more useful then blue gear. Its not like it suddenly disintegrated on you. It changed in a way YOU dont like, but it was never taken away.
They have stolen nothing from you.
Be glad, there is even an option to remove and keep the enchants, regardless of the cost. Most other games don't even offer that. Nerf or not, you are still fairly well geared. You are doing better then most.
Oh! And they did mention that they're going to lower the cost of removing enchantments/transmuting/things like that. Which they really need to do, the prices are ridiculous. They mentioned in the charity livestream that they were going to try to make it easier to earn AD as well.
You still have the enchants. The armor, while no longer BIS is still functional and far more useful then blue gear.
Actually you are incorrect. Blue gear has better stats than most Epic's and even some GREENs have better stats than epics. This game has horrible itemization for Epic gear.
You still have the enchants. The armor, while no longer BIS is still functional and far more useful then blue gear. Its not like it suddenly disintegrated on you. It changed in a way YOU dont like, but it was never taken away.
They have stolen nothing from you.
Be glad, there is even an option to remove and keep the enchants, regardless of the cost. Most other games don't even offer that. Nerf or not, you are still fairly well geared. You are doing better then most.
I disagree. If enchantments cant be removed for free it IS stealing.
Actually, a lot of games won't let you remove enchantment/enhancement type items, and for good reason. If new enchantments are constantly being dropped, and old ones aren't used up, then it's going to turn into a mess. If Neverwinter allowed us to remove them for free, the market would be absolutely flooded with them, and the prices would crash.
I do admit that the price to remove is obscene, but I don't disagree with their decision to limit the market a little.
As this game has many characteristics of gambling and there is real money involved (and lots of it), I wonder if I should not let some people I know look into the thing on the European Commission level. I was thoroughly shocked when I heard just how much money some people are willing to put into a mirage.
0
seisem2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Actually you are incorrect. Blue gear has better stats than most Epic's and even some GREENs have better stats than epics. This game has horrible itemization for Epic gear.
Yea right -- no player full of blues and greens can compete with the right epics. Not even close.
I disagree. If enchantments cant be removed for free it IS stealing.
So if you bought a loose diamond in real life, bring it to a jeweler, and they offer to set into a band for you, for free, but then you don't like the band at some later date, them charging you to remove said diamond is stealing? Really?
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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seisem2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You still have the enchants. The armor, while no longer BIS is still functional and far more useful then blue gear. Its not like it suddenly disintegrated on you. It changed in a way YOU dont like, but it was never taken away.
They have stolen nothing from you.
Be glad, there is even an option to remove and keep the enchants, regardless of the cost. Most other games don't even offer that. Nerf or not, you are still fairly well geared. You are doing better then most.
+1
The OP is complaining about nothing. You can obtain all of that gear in game playing on your own. No need to dump money in this game other than for mounts/companions to get you started. All the gear in this game is easily obtainable from playing and farming.
They'd have to look into pretty much 95% of all online games, then. Most site have some form of chance items. I think because the 'prize' is a virtual item that's not (officially) worth any real currency, it doesn't count as gambling.
Well it sounds like a stretch but the change to the equipment isnt really the problem, i expect those kinds of changes. Its making sure they allow the users of changed item to remove there enchantments without paying for there mistakes on item creation. Thats the key, players must be able to remove there enchants for free without cost to them. Short of that it is defined as outright stealing.
How is it stealing? you spend Zen to buy AD and bought gear from PLAYERS. There are items that help you enchant and you CHOSE to spend it and use it while you could have done it for FREE without spending a dime.
You took a shortcut and it took you to the wayside. I don't remember seeing T2 armor for sale on the Zen store. Now if the mount that sold on the Zen store reduce in speed (like down to 110%) that is available to ALL accounts, that is a different story.
What you spend with your zen into AD is your own doing and your own choice. It is like buying an item that is recently available on the opening day and later discover it was on sale 1 month later.
As this game has many characteristics of gambling and there is real money involved (and lots of it), I wonder if I should not let some people I know look into the thing on the European Commission level. I was thoroughly shocked when I heard just how much money some people are willing to put into a mirage.
I saw a post of transactions from one player about a month ago who spent over $5,000 on this game. Cant even comprehend that but the point is, pwe can retract every purchase made without compensation or consequence. Players need to put alot of thought into that fact when they pull out there cards. I made this mistake and will not make it again. If your purchases are secure then i can see spending money. As long as pwe can take money and give nothing back, spending any money on this game is incredibly foolish.
It creates a situation were pwe can legally steal from you. Keep your wallets closed, i dont want anyone else getting screwed over.
0
seisem2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I saw a post of transactions from one player about a month ago who spent over $5,000 on this game. Cant even comprehend that but the point is, pwe can retract every purchase made without compensation or consequence. Players need to put alot of thought into that fact when they pull out there cards. I made this mistake and will not make it again. If your purchases are secure then i can see spending money. As long as pwe can take money and give nothing back, spending any money on this game is incredibly foolish.
They are giving you plenty in return. This is a Free to Play game. Somebody had to design the content, somebody has to pay for the servers, somebody has to pay for the hosting, somebody has to pay the designers, etc. You were given the game in return. The fun of the game. If you don't like that, then simply uninstall the game and leave. This is not even a serious complaint... gear is always going to be replaced in MMOs... that is how the games work.
Comments
I understand all that except for the "i should have known" part. That i dont get. How should i have known that? How could anyone predict the future? It is moot though. PWE doesnt care about HAMSTER there customers, as most businesses dont. Only using them up. Not matter, i was raised to understand something far more important. Taking something of someone else s without there consent is stealing.
Here's an encouragement: The average disgruntled customer tells 9 people about a bad business experience. So spread the word.
It's painfully obvious the Cryptic ticked off a huge portion of its player base. Word is quickly spreading about how they hugely screwed over their customers. It's only going to hurt them in the long run.
I, like always, will keep my wallet closed and encourage others to do the same.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
A T1 set of armor out performed and was more desired then any other set, including all T2.
Can you honestly say you are truly blindsided by a change that fixes that?
You could do a charge-back BUT legally speaking you don't have a case if PWE choose to pursue you for fraud. The terms and conditions basically say that they can change anything at any time, and this is standard for all online MMOs. I am not aware of anyone ever getting into trouble for this for an MMO, and a lot of people did it after the Caturday debacle, but understand that there is at least a theoretical risk.
Ignore the idiotic advice from aerisod - any lawyer will tell you that the terms and conditions you accepted mean you are not entitled, legally speaking, to a refund. So there is no need to throw good money after bad. If you have a lawyer buddy of course check with him, but I am pretty certain that is the response you will get.
DISCALIMER: I am not a lawyer, just someone who has to deal with corporate law for my work. This is not meant to be taken as legal advice, blah, blah, blah.....
Is this your first ever MMO?
EDIT: And yes, if you dispute a charge on your account, PWE will automatically ban your account. So if you're absolutely sure you never, ever want to play again, file the dispute for what it's worth.
Yup, gotta keep the wallet closed. This is proof that the money is not well spent. Moving forward its clear that what you pay for can be changed, or even removed all together with no refund on the purchase. Thats about as low class as it gets in my book. I have been ripped off, as many others im sure have also been with this game. I will concede that no one made my open my wallet to begin with, but this IS blatant IMO.
Yes sir first MMO
Yeah, stuff in MMO's change ALL THE TIME...it's why you have to be really careful with what you buy. Nothing is ever the same.
Honestly, sincerely sorry about that. I'm sure your buying decisions would've been a lot different if you had known nothing ever stays the same, better gear is always added and nothing is ever "the best" for long.
Personally, I'd turn over a new leaf. Keep your account, keep playing (you don't want to totally throw away all your money) but keep in mind when you swipe the credit card that nothing is ever permanent. That's why they're all "virtual" goods
At the end of the day, buyer's remorse/beware is part of all online games now.
If enough people leave, don't play the game any more, either Cryptic will change the game or have to shut it down. If they change, you can come back FREE of charge and if they don't then they lose and have to shutter the game. Either way, something will have changed.
Opened up comments, because I would love to hear what everyone says, even the naysayers.
http://goo.gl/TiX1kO
And clearly failed to read and undestand the ToS the RoC and the EULA as required.
Stupid is as Stupid does.
Well it sounds like a stretch but the change to the equipment isnt really the problem, i expect those kinds of changes. Its making sure they allow the users of changed item to remove there enchantments without paying for there mistakes on item creation. Thats the key, players must be able to remove there enchants for free without cost to them. Short of that it is defined as outright stealing.
You still have the enchants. The armor, while no longer BIS is still functional and far more useful then blue gear. Its not like it suddenly disintegrated on you. It changed in a way YOU dont like, but it was never taken away.
They have stolen nothing from you.
Be glad, there is even an option to remove and keep the enchants, regardless of the cost. Most other games don't even offer that. Nerf or not, you are still fairly well geared. You are doing better then most.
RainFeather- Dragonborn DC
Rune Fell- Drow CW
Actually you are incorrect. Blue gear has better stats than most Epic's and even some GREENs have better stats than epics. This game has horrible itemization for Epic gear.
I disagree. If enchantments cant be removed for free it IS stealing.
I do admit that the price to remove is obscene, but I don't disagree with their decision to limit the market a little.
RainFeather- Dragonborn DC
Rune Fell- Drow CW
So let me know when you get that check from Apple for stealing from you by making your Iphone 3 worthless with the Iphone 4
It isn't.
You had fair warning what the removal cost would be before you slotted them.
Take the experience and learn from it. Go read the ToS and learn from it as well.
Yea right -- no player full of blues and greens can compete with the right epics. Not even close.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
So if you bought a loose diamond in real life, bring it to a jeweler, and they offer to set into a band for you, for free, but then you don't like the band at some later date, them charging you to remove said diamond is stealing? Really?
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
+1
The OP is complaining about nothing. You can obtain all of that gear in game playing on your own. No need to dump money in this game other than for mounts/companions to get you started. All the gear in this game is easily obtainable from playing and farming.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
They'd have to look into pretty much 95% of all online games, then. Most site have some form of chance items. I think because the 'prize' is a virtual item that's not (officially) worth any real currency, it doesn't count as gambling.
RainFeather- Dragonborn DC
Rune Fell- Drow CW
How is it stealing? you spend Zen to buy AD and bought gear from PLAYERS. There are items that help you enchant and you CHOSE to spend it and use it while you could have done it for FREE without spending a dime.
You took a shortcut and it took you to the wayside. I don't remember seeing T2 armor for sale on the Zen store. Now if the mount that sold on the Zen store reduce in speed (like down to 110%) that is available to ALL accounts, that is a different story.
What you spend with your zen into AD is your own doing and your own choice. It is like buying an item that is recently available on the opening day and later discover it was on sale 1 month later.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
I saw a post of transactions from one player about a month ago who spent over $5,000 on this game. Cant even comprehend that but the point is, pwe can retract every purchase made without compensation or consequence. Players need to put alot of thought into that fact when they pull out there cards. I made this mistake and will not make it again. If your purchases are secure then i can see spending money. As long as pwe can take money and give nothing back, spending any money on this game is incredibly foolish.
It creates a situation were pwe can legally steal from you. Keep your wallets closed, i dont want anyone else getting screwed over.
They are giving you plenty in return. This is a Free to Play game. Somebody had to design the content, somebody has to pay for the servers, somebody has to pay for the hosting, somebody has to pay the designers, etc. You were given the game in return. The fun of the game. If you don't like that, then simply uninstall the game and leave. This is not even a serious complaint... gear is always going to be replaced in MMOs... that is how the games work.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting