brendan03usMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
EQ was the first successful MMORPG. At its peak it had ~500k subscribers, which was a lot at the time. WoW changed the market in a way that no-one anticipated, and that no-one has been able to replicate (likely Blizzard themselves won't be able to replicate it, either), but if we leave out the outlier, a sub-based game of 500k subscribers is a good benchmark for subscription success. It's very hard to compare B2P, S2P and F2P games, however, because the economics of each type is quite different, and this also impacts how they play and how they are built.
NWO was built ground up as F2P, which makes it fairly odd for a Western game. Most other Western MMOs are now also F2P to some degree, but they didn't start that way, so they were not built that way from the ground up like this one is.
Oh my, I joined a dead game!!! (sarcasm implied):cool:
Lol and you'd think a dead game would have dead forums too, but all the people who "already left" seem to still visit everyday to tell everyone else how dumb they are for not leaving like they did...
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I'm not here for this. I'm interested in nvn evolution. Game got some potential. But even if it's not dead it is not in good shape.
I'm out of the game, but i'm still interested in its evolution. And i think that one of the mistake that could make it go even worst is to think that people complain about game issues only to troll. When someone complain about fixes, unbalance or lack of content is because is interested.
I have to admit that the attitude of part of the community encouraged me to try a new game. Some of the argument in favor of nvn not only didn't help but convinced me that i was wasting time waiting here doing professions and some pvp.
Since i have some clue on how economy works (and i think all should at least understand this) i know that nvn business model incures in some fatal mistakes. People here talk as none has to pay nothing, as the game was sustained only by stupid players that want all fast and can't farm AD properly. Some other think that this game it's worth to pay 60 euros for a pack. This can function for some time, but then the majority of customers will realize.
When i say this i'm not telling people that they should leave game. I'm telling that community should ask for a change, because otherwise your money and time will be wasted soon. People speak about Star Trek mmo start, or Wow start. Well, Wow had no real competitors. Star Trek is almost unique on it's type. You know a similar game? This is not true for Nvn, because it's the little clone of Gw2. Dodge? Same mechanic, even the stamina used is the same. A red ball with a yellow line? Same.
Chain attack with the last more powerful? Same. Of course it's not all equal, but it's very similar. Both are fantasy games.
So this is the real problem. Comparing Nvn with Star Trek has no sense. Because they got 2 different target. Nvn should be compared to other fantasy Mmos.
Dead? No. Dying? Yes. You can see because there are less players in Enclave, queue are longer for all things. Well you can always say that it's summer
0
kantazo1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
Can I haz your stuff? (You knew this was coming aint ya?)
Lol and you'd think a dead game would have dead forums too, but all the people who "already left" seem to still visit everyday to tell everyone else how dumb they are for not leaving like they did...
Yeah.... WoW is still 'fixing' things and it's been around for many, many years.
There are no complete live MMOs.
And on its day of release the quantity of content it released with blows the doors off the quantity of content these MMOs who start taking money in beta released with.
People need to understand the comparison of degree rather than rules lawyering the absolute. Theres a huge difference between having regular bug maintenance -vs- having to roll back servers due to the complete destruction of the economy over an exploit that someone playing the game for one day would have found.
Another tidbit worth mentioning is the difference between tweaking an item or two in an already completed and tested talent tree versus releasing classes whose skill trees dont all even exist yet.
When someone says "completed" they are referring to things already released into the game being in a completed maintenance state rather than something literally in the middle of development - defined as "unfinished"
Lol and you'd think a dead game would have dead forums too, but all the people who "already left" seem to still visit everyday to tell everyone else how dumb they are for not leaving like they did...
They come back because they love DnD and hope they'll stop ruining it so they voice concerns on the forum. You know the game is bad when people prefer the tabletop(cards and dice) to a video game.
Queen of Dragon Server
Goddess Uniique, lvl 60 DC.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
Yeah.... WoW is still 'fixing' things and it's been around for many, many years.
There are no complete live MMOs.
I don't necessarily agree with alecstorm, but I do disagree with you in part. I believe it is a matter of degree. There is the sense of something feeling whole, even if it isn't truly complete. I got that feel from GW1 and UO back in the day (other games too, but a lot of names escape me right now). Even if more expansions are known to be coming out, mechanics need to be refined, and it is not truly a final product, there is still a feeling it could be.
Then there is the feeling that something is just not right, something jerky or slightly jarring as you go through the motions. It is as if little bits were left off or the edges are still rough. I know this is just conjecture, but it all comes down to refinement.
It always feels as if less care was put into Neverwinter by cryptic then Arenanet, Blizzard, or the others put into their products. I mean from the at the current state equivalent for the others, back when they all were here at a month off official launch. It is like the difference between a Cadillac and a Mercedes Benz, one is refined the other looks refined, but it is full of plastic.
I don't necessarily agree with alecstorm, but I do disagree with you in part. I believe it is a matter of degree. There is the sense of something feeling whole, even if it isn't truly complete. I got that feel from GW1 and UO back in the day (other games too, but a lot of names escape me right now). Even if more expansions are known to be coming out, mechanics need to be refined, and it is not truly a final product, there is still a feeling it could be.
Then there is the feeling that something is just not right, something jerky or slightly jarring as you go through the motions. It is as if little bits were left off or the edges are still rough. I know this is just conjecture, but it all comes down to refinement.
It always feels as if less care was put into Neverwinter by cryptic then Arenanet, Blizzard, or the others put into their products. I mean from the at the current state equivalent for the others, back when they all were here at a month off official launch.
The game is a couple of months old, for one thing, and didn't have the warchest of funds and other resources available during the making of it that Blizzard could devote to WoW. From what I've heard, despite these advantages, WoW didn't start out all that great either many years ago.
UO, being a comparatively sandbox MMO, is a whole different bucket of fish so there isn't a very fair comparison. Character development was much deeper and flexible in that game, and one could basically set their own course of adventure, or not adventure at all, but instead be a crafter or some such. That type of MMO is very different from most of those today, and more complete than just about any modern MMO, regardless of hose much content they have.
I have no experience and virtually no knowledge of GW1, so I will take your word on how it feels in comparison to NW.
As far as putting less care into things, Cryptic simply doesn't have the resources available to match Blizzard. It isn't so much a caring issue, as it is one of capacity. They have way less money and people to throw at the game than Blizzard did when starting up, and they certainly have way less resources available to throw at the game than Blizzard does now.
This game is complete enough for players to level up a diversity of characters through the storyline, or by other means. Shortly, there will be more things for level 60 players to do, so it's complete enough... to start.
They will have to flesh it out quite a bit though, at a fairly reasonable pace, to maintain the interest of most players though. It also doesn't help that so far the game is incredibly linear, if you level up through the quests. I haven't tried out the new expansion much on test as I don't want to see much of it before it goes live. Hopefully, it will give a more winding and player controllable path through the content.
What gives me the most feeling of lacking is the very constrained nature of the game, in that it is very much set on rails, and as of yet, there is no way for the player to change from the one and only track.
0
brendan03usMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I haven't tried out the new expansion much on test as I don't want to see much of it before it goes live. Hopefully, it will give a more winding and player controllable path through the content.
I also haven't tested it too much for the same reason, but based on the 90 or so minutes I have seen of it, it isn't really like that. It's very centered around the campaign system, which has some similarities to STO's reputation system. Basically, you will be doing daily quests to build up something that is like reputation to unlock various areas and character upgrades. It's definitely additional level cap content, but it isn't particularly winding any more than any other reputation-type system is.
I also haven't tested it too much for the same reason, but based on the 90 or so minutes I have seen of it, it isn't really like that. It's very centered around the campaign system, which has some similarities to STO's reputation system. Basically, you will be doing daily quests to build up something that is like reputation to unlock various areas and character upgrades. It's definitely additional level cap content, but it isn't particularly winding any more than any other reputation-type system is.
Yeah, it's starting to look like every part of the world is going to be contained in it's own little pocket, with the world at large represented solely by dots on a map, with very little sense of travel or exploration.
Many probably like the shorthand travel, as it saves a lot of time that would otherwise be spent moving from one quest area to another, but it can feel like each region is just another discrete ride on a midway rather than part of a connected world.
It all sounds pretty important to me. There are a lot of good ideas here. I hope the developers actually take a look at this thread and try to implement the changes and suggestions made here. This is all of course, from player's perspective, from what they have enjoyed and their experiences. Sometimes we get people working on games that don't actually play games themselves, so how would they know that an idea is a bad one vs a good one unless a gamer tells them? anyway, good luck guys on the suggestions.
I have my own suggestion. I am not going to play much of Neverwinter for the following reason: NO FIRST PERSON VIEW OPTION. You cannot current scroll in to first person view, or for that matter, you cannot scroll in to your character really at all! The original neverwinter pc game did let you scroll in pretty close. that was long long time ago, in a dungeon far away, but it still rocked. This has potential, but even as such, fails to meet the playability for me of even the 10 odd year ago release of the original.
Technology has come a long way since then, so I am unsure why we are playing substandard work release. I think this game has potential, but the inability to scroll in close to your character, to either first person, or a close third person, creates a barrier for me feeling like I am in the action with my character, - thus breaking immersion and enjoyment. I feel like I'm playing the first Diablo game instead of neverwinter. I hate birds eye view, and distant third person is not much better. I understand situation awareness and all that, but there is something in immersion and seeing things from your character's point of view that cannot be captured the same looking at it from 30 feet away. I gave it a good run, but I won't be playing much of this until something happens there. I'll consume myself with more immersive elements of skyrim, or bf3, etc. until TES online comes out. BTW, TES Online team started with the same idea of not having first person view.. gamers cried until they caved in. There is a reason for that.
0
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited December 2013
Thread Closed for Necromancy.
If a thread has not been posted on in over thirty days the discussion is considered dead. Threads such as this often contain outdated information or opinions.
If you wish to continue this discussion please create a new thread to do so.
Comments
NWO was built ground up as F2P, which makes it fairly odd for a Western game. Most other Western MMOs are now also F2P to some degree, but they didn't start that way, so they were not built that way from the ground up like this one is.
Lol and you'd think a dead game would have dead forums too, but all the people who "already left" seem to still visit everyday to tell everyone else how dumb they are for not leaving like they did...
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I'm out of the game, but i'm still interested in its evolution. And i think that one of the mistake that could make it go even worst is to think that people complain about game issues only to troll. When someone complain about fixes, unbalance or lack of content is because is interested.
I have to admit that the attitude of part of the community encouraged me to try a new game. Some of the argument in favor of nvn not only didn't help but convinced me that i was wasting time waiting here doing professions and some pvp.
Since i have some clue on how economy works (and i think all should at least understand this) i know that nvn business model incures in some fatal mistakes. People here talk as none has to pay nothing, as the game was sustained only by stupid players that want all fast and can't farm AD properly. Some other think that this game it's worth to pay 60 euros for a pack. This can function for some time, but then the majority of customers will realize.
When i say this i'm not telling people that they should leave game. I'm telling that community should ask for a change, because otherwise your money and time will be wasted soon. People speak about Star Trek mmo start, or Wow start. Well, Wow had no real competitors. Star Trek is almost unique on it's type. You know a similar game? This is not true for Nvn, because it's the little clone of Gw2. Dodge? Same mechanic, even the stamina used is the same. A red ball with a yellow line? Same.
Chain attack with the last more powerful? Same. Of course it's not all equal, but it's very similar. Both are fantasy games.
So this is the real problem. Comparing Nvn with Star Trek has no sense. Because they got 2 different target. Nvn should be compared to other fantasy Mmos.
Dead? No. Dying? Yes. You can see because there are less players in Enclave, queue are longer for all things. Well you can always say that it's summer
Yeah.... WoW is still 'fixing' things and it's been around for many, many years.
There are no complete live MMOs.
Naaaaa, just once or twice a week or so.
And on its day of release the quantity of content it released with blows the doors off the quantity of content these MMOs who start taking money in beta released with.
People need to understand the comparison of degree rather than rules lawyering the absolute. Theres a huge difference between having regular bug maintenance -vs- having to roll back servers due to the complete destruction of the economy over an exploit that someone playing the game for one day would have found.
Another tidbit worth mentioning is the difference between tweaking an item or two in an already completed and tested talent tree versus releasing classes whose skill trees dont all even exist yet.
When someone says "completed" they are referring to things already released into the game being in a completed maintenance state rather than something literally in the middle of development - defined as "unfinished"
They come back because they love DnD and hope they'll stop ruining it so they voice concerns on the forum. You know the game is bad when people prefer the tabletop(cards and dice) to a video game.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
I don't necessarily agree with alecstorm, but I do disagree with you in part. I believe it is a matter of degree. There is the sense of something feeling whole, even if it isn't truly complete. I got that feel from GW1 and UO back in the day (other games too, but a lot of names escape me right now). Even if more expansions are known to be coming out, mechanics need to be refined, and it is not truly a final product, there is still a feeling it could be.
Then there is the feeling that something is just not right, something jerky or slightly jarring as you go through the motions. It is as if little bits were left off or the edges are still rough. I know this is just conjecture, but it all comes down to refinement.
It always feels as if less care was put into Neverwinter by cryptic then Arenanet, Blizzard, or the others put into their products. I mean from the at the current state equivalent for the others, back when they all were here at a month off official launch. It is like the difference between a Cadillac and a Mercedes Benz, one is refined the other looks refined, but it is full of plastic.
glassdoor.com - Cryptic Studios Review
The game is a couple of months old, for one thing, and didn't have the warchest of funds and other resources available during the making of it that Blizzard could devote to WoW. From what I've heard, despite these advantages, WoW didn't start out all that great either many years ago.
UO, being a comparatively sandbox MMO, is a whole different bucket of fish so there isn't a very fair comparison. Character development was much deeper and flexible in that game, and one could basically set their own course of adventure, or not adventure at all, but instead be a crafter or some such. That type of MMO is very different from most of those today, and more complete than just about any modern MMO, regardless of hose much content they have.
I have no experience and virtually no knowledge of GW1, so I will take your word on how it feels in comparison to NW.
As far as putting less care into things, Cryptic simply doesn't have the resources available to match Blizzard. It isn't so much a caring issue, as it is one of capacity. They have way less money and people to throw at the game than Blizzard did when starting up, and they certainly have way less resources available to throw at the game than Blizzard does now.
This game is complete enough for players to level up a diversity of characters through the storyline, or by other means. Shortly, there will be more things for level 60 players to do, so it's complete enough... to start.
They will have to flesh it out quite a bit though, at a fairly reasonable pace, to maintain the interest of most players though. It also doesn't help that so far the game is incredibly linear, if you level up through the quests. I haven't tried out the new expansion much on test as I don't want to see much of it before it goes live. Hopefully, it will give a more winding and player controllable path through the content.
What gives me the most feeling of lacking is the very constrained nature of the game, in that it is very much set on rails, and as of yet, there is no way for the player to change from the one and only track.
I also haven't tested it too much for the same reason, but based on the 90 or so minutes I have seen of it, it isn't really like that. It's very centered around the campaign system, which has some similarities to STO's reputation system. Basically, you will be doing daily quests to build up something that is like reputation to unlock various areas and character upgrades. It's definitely additional level cap content, but it isn't particularly winding any more than any other reputation-type system is.
Yeah, it's starting to look like every part of the world is going to be contained in it's own little pocket, with the world at large represented solely by dots on a map, with very little sense of travel or exploration.
Many probably like the shorthand travel, as it saves a lot of time that would otherwise be spent moving from one quest area to another, but it can feel like each region is just another discrete ride on a midway rather than part of a connected world.
I have my own suggestion. I am not going to play much of Neverwinter for the following reason: NO FIRST PERSON VIEW OPTION. You cannot current scroll in to first person view, or for that matter, you cannot scroll in to your character really at all! The original neverwinter pc game did let you scroll in pretty close. that was long long time ago, in a dungeon far away, but it still rocked. This has potential, but even as such, fails to meet the playability for me of even the 10 odd year ago release of the original.
Technology has come a long way since then, so I am unsure why we are playing substandard work release. I think this game has potential, but the inability to scroll in close to your character, to either first person, or a close third person, creates a barrier for me feeling like I am in the action with my character, - thus breaking immersion and enjoyment. I feel like I'm playing the first Diablo game instead of neverwinter. I hate birds eye view, and distant third person is not much better. I understand situation awareness and all that, but there is something in immersion and seeing things from your character's point of view that cannot be captured the same looking at it from 30 feet away. I gave it a good run, but I won't be playing much of this until something happens there. I'll consume myself with more immersive elements of skyrim, or bf3, etc. until TES online comes out. BTW, TES Online team started with the same idea of not having first person view.. gamers cried until they caved in. There is a reason for that.
If a thread has not been posted on in over thirty days the discussion is considered dead. Threads such as this often contain outdated information or opinions.
If you wish to continue this discussion please create a new thread to do so.