Nothing you actually said was relative to the quote you posted.
But if you want to discuss ways that games SHOULD be developed, I see your TESO and raise you one Star Citizen by RSI.
The developers of Star Citizen have a live show every week, in which they talk about the game, where they are on the development, interview the devs, do a q&a section with questions from the forums, interview (soon to be) players, ect, ect. I have never seen a company so communicative with their playerbase as RSI is, and the game isn't even in a pre-alpha state yet. I watch these broadcasts, and wonder why the "bigger" companies are always so secretive & always seem like they make the players beg for more communication.
That game is nice looking I'll give you that. But them kinda graphics makes me think you'll need a super high end comp to play it.
Queen of Dragon Server
Goddess Uniique, lvl 60 DC.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
Yeah well cryptic games are always incomplete or broken, have you checked Champions online lately? its a mess
I wouldn't be surprised if Cryptic Sells champions online like they did with city of heroes
Does neverwinter even have a raid system yet?
If you played wow when it was first was released they already had end content to keep you busy
I would be very surprised if they sold Champions Online. When CoH was sold, one guy (Jack Emmert) was running the show and Cryptic wasn't owned by PWE.
Not to mention, Cryptic just opened a new studio (Cryptic North) specifically for polishing up CO.
Interesting to note: Cryptic North is building on the remnants of Flying Labs Software, the company behind Pirates/Burning Sea, if anyone else played that.
That game is nice looking I'll give you that. But them kinda graphics makes me think you'll need a super high end comp to play it.
They have said as much. This isn't a game being developed for grandma to play on her 8 year old Gateway.This is a gamers game, designed for gaming rigs.
But we must remember, what is "super high end" now, won't be so high end in a couple of years when the game is launched.
I think the first set of play test's are going to begin on the 20th, which I'll be part of. I'm only rocking a single 7870 Tahiti edition card, so we'll see how it runs on my machine at that point.
You can't compare WoW with this game. Believe me Wow had its share of bugs, loot animation anyone. Wait...it's August right ? When did this game release ? A little over a month ago? What do you expect? MMO's are never complete.
I would be very surprised if they sold Champions Online. When CoH was sold, one guy (Jack Emmert) was running the show and Cryptic wasn't owned by PWE.
Not to mention, Cryptic just opened a new studio (Cryptic North) specifically for polishing up CO.
Its a shame they did it too late, I was playing CO for awhile hoping for something interesting but during those stupid race updates i couldn't take it anymore so i quit
The "OMG your game is unfinished/not polished and there are bugs!!!!111one" threads a month and a half after launch are a little dumb... Already there is new content coming out 15 days from now, that's pretty fast.
And come on people stop comparing this game to the 9 years running most successful MMO in history, that also had a very renowned company with plenty of money working on it from the beginning. Blizzard already had multiple widely successful games before they started work on wow, they probably had 5 times the staff that cryptic has when they launched
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I agree that having both factions on the same map during GG and making the entire event PvP would possibly be great , the idea of mugging opposing players for the giants food or for catapult parts sounds fun , the only thing is that making such a map balanced and the gameplay fair would take some genius design and very innovative ideas and atm I don't think Cryptic are up to the job.
As for the game being unfinished , its plain to see that it is clearly an unfinished title ( and not in the every MMO is unfinished sense) IMHO they should have held off full live launch until at least the 22nd where they could have released module 1 and gone live at the same time , would have brought a huge amount of publicity to the game too had they done that .
Don't be ridiculous. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes was released three months early, and calling the launch a disaster is an understatement. Skip ahead a few years, and the game is doing great. Aion had us wait five whole hours just to log in to the game, and it's doing great. Final Fantasy XIV was so bad they had to scrap the game and remake it from scratch, and even that lasted two years. This game has been out two months, and we're getting the module 1 with a new area, new races and so on in a few weeks. What makes you think this game is dead? Just because you don't like it, it doesn't mean no one else does, either.
Tell that to Champions Online and Star Trek Online.
You're sadly very right. There will always be people ready to be milked with trash games. That's the reason why games seem to get worse every year. Casualized P2W trash to make mindless uncreative people feel like they accomplished something. It's pathetic and sad.
cheers
Can anyone actually provide an example of a "finished" or "complete" MMO at launch?
Absolutely, but the rules lawyers would just point out that since the game receives new content development its still "unfinished" - when they dont understand the use of the word finished doesnt mean "never touching it again" - but is a relative term used in comparison to past MMO eras where releasing a game essentially in a beta state would not have fared well.
Note there is a huge difference between an "unfinished" game where routine minor annoyance type bugs show up and need to be logged/fixed -vs- an "unfinished" game where people are falling through invisible holes in the world in order to avoid 95% of the content in dungeons. In the era where the entire development of the game had to be funded by the company previous to release, more stable games were launched, because people werent going to sub up to relatively unfinished games. This is what people are comparing NW to when calling it "unfinished".
Just a thread i wanted to post just to vent my thoughts about neverwinter atm.
Why is it released out of beta so early? there are still so many things that need to be tweaked atm such as the dungeon reward system, pvp reward system, gauntlgyrm as a whole, and in my opinion, the rate at which you earn AD.
So in your opinion there are things needed to be tweaked therefore this game is incomplete?
Every game out there has things needed to be tweaked depending on players. In fact things such as rewards, class/race features, balances are regularly getting tweaked from games like LOL and WOW. I guess they are all incomplete by your definition then.
Mate, balance is really not the main problem of nvn. It's necessary to every mmo to fix balance at every sinlge item or skill they add, but none of the people that complained about balance here did it to state that the game is failing or uncomplete.
Balance is a thing, and it will come with time (nvn is not so unbalanced i think). It's all the rest.
Yeah well cryptic games are always incomplete or broken, have you checked Champions online lately? its a mess
I wouldn't be surprised if Cryptic Sells champions online like they did with city of heroes
Does neverwinter even have a raid system yet?
If you played wow when it was first was released they already had end content to keep you busy
Why would they sell if they can launch these games in other parts of the world, particularly China, or they can license them to their other growing partners such as mail.ru?
CO seems fine to me..... just played the brand new 'fatal error' missions yesterday.
game doesnt feel stale at all, and there were plenty of people playing.
meh... tomato/tomato on peoples opinions I guess.
Yes CO is actually really good lately with their vehicles and new content, not to mention the costume contests and rp areas are awesome, and they have personal bases as well. Everyone is just hoping they add some sort of foundry system to it.
THe queue system in this game is bugged and is not a reflection of how many people are in the queue. if you want proof just try quing with 3-5 people ALREADY in the team with a dc and a GF already placed in team it takes a long time also, then ask how long the other two have been in queue. Its almost as if the queue has to evaluate every options even if the spot is already filled.
Even if there are not 2 million people in the game at any given moment the number of quests finished was also impressive and quests are not going to be done by botters/pvpers/ppl invoking ect. The game is far from small or dead just cause your in dead guilds doesn't mean they all are. guilds tend to die if people stop recruiting. because people cap and make new characters or play on alts.
Negitive People is the big downside to the game, its as if they want the game to die, they are not going to shut down the game and relaunch that is an awful idea. the POINT to this game is they will release new things every month or 2, so the game is always fresh, this means they start a bit small,
also to tell people to race to 60 is also shooting themselves in the foot. the leveling process IS the game, the questing IS the game. people who level to 60 then go why is there no end game is like getting a 1 player game using a code to fight the final boss first. then wondering why the game was to short. Try playing the actual game not just powering through it.
Some people like the end grind sure I think wows end game is dull as mud everyone HAS to have the same equipment same build and same enhancements and same powers. then do the same t2 things over and over.
games finished at launch Neocron hit its golden age in its beta unfortunately then they fired their creative team and every "update" made the game worse or more buggy and the people left could not fix it.
TOR felt very finished in its beta also but it was made like a 1 player game with no endgame people finished it in 2 months then they went free to play and now kinda stink.
in short most games that feel finished before launch peak before launch then fade away quickly.
also PWE never sells anything and they keep even their old games open for ever. this is why I like them. sometimes I wonder if half of these forums are developers and or players from other games trying to sabotage NWO.
Many players described a MMORPG world as an ever-changing, living and breathing world. Neverwinter Online is a MMORPG.
That said, Neverwinter should be ever-changing and Nevercompleted.
The old warcraft style of stagnant world with a two years wait peroid for the next expansion doesn't exactly fit the definition of an ever-changing, living and breathing world. It is outdated and not likely to be the going format of this ever-changing and never-completed MMORPG world.
Comparing nvn with wow is a big mistake. First of all, wow win just because the dominant position, even if the game structure is worst than nvn. But wow focus on grind, and wow teached the grind to other mmo. Nvn focus on economy and economy is totally broken.
And most of people that now complain about wow were people that never reached end game, in my experience at least.
To make a better compare you should compare nvn with recent mmo, like gw2 for example. Here comes the deal.
Nvn would fail if developers will take critics in the same way of "nvn lovers". None here want the game to die. But i feel like Cassandra. When someone make a critic there are people who answer "great, you'r right, this game sucks" and other that climb glasses trying to prove that this game is good. The right way is in the middle.
But when the discussion get serious you see something like "it will be released" or "new content added" and it's pretty clear that NOW the game has not much to offer. So a smart customer will simply leave and check back after some time. 2 or 3 months maybe.
The problem is that players that focused on this game knows that the population is diminishing a lot, and this could kill the game.
So how to save it? Well, developers should act as they are supposed to do. As business men. Improve the game, improve the quality/cost rate.
The game needs money, but why i should spend 60 euros (like a friend of mine did) to have a small game with good ideas bad realized? For a mount to every chars? Omg no...
What most of players don't get is that the game should not be only for pvp lovers, for Dungeons grind lovers, or something else. A good game give players reason to do pvp, or pve, or to play with economy, if you have not enough in real life
But a game can't be focused in only one aspect, and if this aspect is broken this is true even more.
Speaking about an ever changing world... well the road is still long for nvn. I hope they will do it, will be really fun, but even wow is more changing now.
Having fun with leveling? Not rushing to 60? I made 10 level in a week with a CW (that i even deleted) only by leadership and pray. And you should not rush?
The truth is that the game is too easy, and become boring fast. I'm sorry, but that's it.
Comparing nvn with wow is a big mistake. First of all, wow win just because the dominant position, even if the game structure is worst than nvn. But wow focus on grind, and wow teached the grind to other mmo. Nvn focus on economy and economy is totally broken.
And most of people that now complain about wow were people that never reached end game, in my experience at least.
To make a better compare you should compare nvn with recent mmo, like gw2 for example. Here comes the deal.
Nvn would fail if developers will take critics in the same way of "nvn lovers". None here want the game to die. But i feel like Cassandra. When someone make a critic there are people who answer "great, you'r right, this game sucks" and other that climb glasses trying to prove that this game is good. The right way is in the middle.
But when the discussion get serious you see something like "it will be released" or "new content added" and it's pretty clear that NOW the game has not much to offer. So a smart customer will simply leave and check back after some time. 2 or 3 months maybe.
The problem is that players that focused on this game knows that the population is diminishing a lot, and this could kill the game.
So how to save it? Well, developers should act as they are supposed to do. As business men. Improve the game, improve the quality/cost rate.
The game needs money, but why i should spend 60 euros (like a friend of mine did) to have a small game with good ideas bad realized? For a mount to every chars? Omg no...
What most of players don't get is that the game should not be only for pvp lovers, for Dungeons grind lovers, or something else. A good game give players reason to do pvp, or pve, or to play with economy, if you have not enough in real life
But a game can't be focused in only one aspect, and if this aspect is broken this is true even more.
Speaking about an ever changing world... well the road is still long for nvn. I hope they will do it, will be really fun, but even wow is more changing now.
Having fun with leveling? Not rushing to 60? I made 10 level in a week with a CW (that i even deleted) only by leadership and pray. And you should not rush?
The truth is that the game is too easy, and become boring fast. I'm sorry, but that's it.
I think you are carried away by your obsession in some specific games.
The key point is this game is a MMORPG that should features an ever-changing world, i.e., not a completed but stagnant stereotype. Arguing about the relative successfulness of a couple of games like GW2 don't make the other hundreds, if not thousands, of MMORPGs unsuccessful.
You can go to the forums of any game and find the same "this game is dying in a month because it is incomplete" thread but the plain truth is nothing died. How many times have people said "Aion and Blade and Soul are dying in a month if they don't follow GW2's format"? The plain truth is not only are Aion and B&S still alive and kicking, combined they brought in more money than GW2. Some ranters then may go to Nexon and said the same "your games are HAMSTER because they are not in the WoW or GW2 format". Nexon just responed with a huge ROFLMAO with their financial results year after year.
The bottom line is it is worse off for developers to spend like 5 or 6 years just to develop one "complete" but stale game when they can deliver a few ever-changing, living and breathing games for the enjoyments of a broader arrays of players in the same period.
Ways to slow leveling down:
1. if you want to do all content on one char don't invoke and don't do leadership foundry or pvp. the make your second char all
2. make 2-5 charactes split the zone up between your alts, when your alt is not in the range of a zone on the list do pvp, foundry, dailies, ect ad of course invoke. this way each character's leveling experience is unique. once your 60 you ca fill in the blanks.
it is funny how games that are "complete" do great for 3 mo to a year then everyone pitters away. but games that start small and work up seem to last for ever, if you look at other games forums they often refer to NWO as "a pretty good game" not an awesome game or a horrible game... also of course the game seems to be losing people right now because a lot of the OMG NEWGAME!!! people are moving on to the next new game.
the difference is a lot of people will come back to nw every few months to try out the new stuff and each time some people will stay. we don't need 2 million fly by night people in nw to make it a good game. it already is a "pretty good game" and I think it has the stuff to be a great game with time and a loyal following.
Also PWE has an assortment of other cool games STO and CO to play when NWO is at its slow points. since NWO has no monthly fee you don't have to worry about your account being shut down or hitting some sort of money cap when your not actively investing in it.
But one thing to be actively concerned about is a lot of the stable population of NWO is city of heroes people who have just lost a game they have played for up to 10 years and may be afraid to invest in something they may just lose at the whim of a CEO. and STO/CO players who may feel like time that developers spent in NWO is time taken away from their other games. because these people may actually be expecting or even hoping NWO fails.
CO, the game that was released four years ago and still gets new content, yes. Not saying it's a good game, but again, it's four years old. Neverwinter isn't even four months, so calling Neverwinter dead is ridiculous.
An easy way to check how popular the game is, is to check the forums. It's common sense: If the game was dead or dying, the forums would be dead or dying. Yet the forums are very active. Don't believe all the BS on the forums about the game dying. Most people here are idiots.
First, you might want to check with the CO community about how they feel concerning no new zones for the past 2 years, and how they feel about Alerts or temporary events being considered actual content additions.
Star Trek Online is a different beast. It was released years before PWE bought Cryptic, and Cryptic holds the license (Atari was publisher only, despite owning Cryptic at the time). If you think CBS had a clause in the contract where the license rights would transfer to PWE (or any company) upon purchase of Cryptic, you'd be mistaken. So, PWE can only do so much to effect that game. Cryptic has to maintain the game and license, as well as get things vetted and approved by CBS.
PWE did have a say in final development of Neverwinter, however, upon purchasing Cryptic. Unlike CO and STO, NWO was not yet completed or released when PWE became involved with Cryptic. Once PWE purchased the rights to publish Neverwinter from Atari (like with Star Trek Online, Cryptic holds the right to the D&D license from WoTC/Hasbro), it became an MMO as opposed to its original multiplayer co-op design. The change was also approved by WoTC.
Tell that to Champions Online and Star Trek Online.
Champions Online and Star Trek Online have more bugs than any other Online games I have ever had the ill fortune to waste my time playing. The sad part is, neither of them have the excuse of being F2P games from the start - they both started as P2P! Champions launched with a good leveling system, an interesting system for customizing your characters, and while Cryptic was struggling financially to stay afloat (because they launched the game with barely ANY end-game content) PWI comes in, buys it, and literally every update since then has a handful of minor bug fixes (mostly related to new Cash Shop content they've made) and every update has added in cash shop items, or brought back old events because they refuse to hire enough devs to develop new content.
PWI has a very long history of having a minimal amount of developers working on their games in an effort to cut costs. The problem is, this reflects directly on the game's quality, rate of bugfixes, and rate of new content releases. This is incredibly evident in Neverwinter in several other ways as well: VERY limited assets for Gear, which is why you basically look the same at all levels, a very small amount of real end-game content (besides PVP), Foundry users can generate content but not any that has an impact on your ability to really play the game, besides getting your daily done for AD, regardless of how fun the content may be in some cases to complete, the reward ruins it in the end.
If PWI would devote more dev time to improving the quality of the Foundry, and designing a strictly regulated system where foundry users can develop new Dungeons (with a chance to drop MEANINGFUL rewards at the end, REAL bosses, etc), hell maybe even PVP maps with custom scenarios (Approved maps get added to the list of official maps for PVP queues, others you have to queue for specifically while they are awaiting approval).
Honestly, adding in the ability for users to generate meaningful endgame content would fix a lot of the complaining about "nothing to do" - Nothing to do? Go find yourself an interesting new dungeon crawl, as long or short as you want it, with as many bosses as you are looking for, and a reward that actually means something at the end. Queue up for an endless variety of PVP maps, possibly meaning that PVP is something different and new every time instead of the same old thing.
Alone in the darkness, that is where you truly discover yourself. Without self, without the core of your identity, you are nothing. - Rasmenar
@vrtesseract:
Yeah, sure, the game is already poor of contents and i should not do: leadership, foundry, pvp and pray, losing also a lot of AD.
And then? No daily during exp? Because i found really easy to exp and even if was funny in few days you would cap the same.
@Knightfalz:
There's a difference between a mmo in development to add some added value than a mmo that is in development to fix it.
In reality the Giant out there WOW - was very incomplete even after 6 months. Took like 9 months vefore even a PVP zone appeared. NO end game and no tiered Dungeons.
Comparing it to WOW - it has started pretty all right and with the promised releasing content looks like a solid game for the future.
People look at WOW today and think "mmnnn why isn't an MMO released today
like this"? - Well buddy because it took them 6 bloody years to do it.
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Wow was the first succesful mmo. It's like Elvis. The first rockstar. We need to compare new mmo with recent mmo, and also remember a thing really important: if you have to chose between 2 different mmo, why you should care if one has 1 year and the other 3 months? You chose the better. Maybe you can keep an eye on the worst, waiting until it improves.
But since i'm not a stockholder of nvn i will not pay them to develop a game, because this is not how business work. If you want money to develop an uncomplete game call it donation. Founder paid a lot of money but buying a new game cost less.
0
hobokenboyBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited August 2013
Actually, any MMO that is released to live customers and collects money in any way, shape or form is "complete". It is a working, viable income for the producing company. Content makes no difference in the equation at all. The only thing that matters -really-, is if it brings in money or not. THAT is what makes it complete.
It's a way of saying... but actually he was. Not the first rocker, but the first star indeed. It was not a good thing for him, in fact he died for that.
But... who cares??? Change the name with what you want. The idea remains the same.
Comments
I wouldn't be surprised if Cryptic Sells champions online like they did with city of heroes
Does neverwinter even have a raid system yet?
If you played wow when it was first was released they already had end content to keep you busy
That game is nice looking I'll give you that. But them kinda graphics makes me think you'll need a super high end comp to play it.
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
I would be very surprised if they sold Champions Online. When CoH was sold, one guy (Jack Emmert) was running the show and Cryptic wasn't owned by PWE.
Not to mention, Cryptic just opened a new studio (Cryptic North) specifically for polishing up CO.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/06/07/cryptic-north-studio-formed-to-polish-champions-online/
Interesting to note: Cryptic North is building on the remnants of Flying Labs Software, the company behind Pirates/Burning Sea, if anyone else played that.
They have said as much. This isn't a game being developed for grandma to play on her 8 year old Gateway.This is a gamers game, designed for gaming rigs.
But we must remember, what is "super high end" now, won't be so high end in a couple of years when the game is launched.
I think the first set of play test's are going to begin on the 20th, which I'll be part of. I'm only rocking a single 7870 Tahiti edition card, so we'll see how it runs on my machine at that point.
Its a shame they did it too late, I was playing CO for awhile hoping for something interesting but during those stupid race updates i couldn't take it anymore so i quit
And come on people stop comparing this game to the 9 years running most successful MMO in history, that also had a very renowned company with plenty of money working on it from the beginning. Blizzard already had multiple widely successful games before they started work on wow, they probably had 5 times the staff that cryptic has when they launched
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
As for the game being unfinished , its plain to see that it is clearly an unfinished title ( and not in the every MMO is unfinished sense) IMHO they should have held off full live launch until at least the 22nd where they could have released module 1 and gone live at the same time , would have brought a huge amount of publicity to the game too had they done that .
You're sadly very right. There will always be people ready to be milked with trash games. That's the reason why games seem to get worse every year. Casualized P2W trash to make mindless uncreative people feel like they accomplished something. It's pathetic and sad.
cheers
game doesnt feel stale at all, and there were plenty of people playing.
meh... tomato/tomato on peoples opinions I guess.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
Absolutely, but the rules lawyers would just point out that since the game receives new content development its still "unfinished" - when they dont understand the use of the word finished doesnt mean "never touching it again" - but is a relative term used in comparison to past MMO eras where releasing a game essentially in a beta state would not have fared well.
Note there is a huge difference between an "unfinished" game where routine minor annoyance type bugs show up and need to be logged/fixed -vs- an "unfinished" game where people are falling through invisible holes in the world in order to avoid 95% of the content in dungeons. In the era where the entire development of the game had to be funded by the company previous to release, more stable games were launched, because people werent going to sub up to relatively unfinished games. This is what people are comparing NW to when calling it "unfinished".
So in your opinion there are things needed to be tweaked therefore this game is incomplete?
Every game out there has things needed to be tweaked depending on players. In fact things such as rewards, class/race features, balances are regularly getting tweaked from games like LOL and WOW. I guess they are all incomplete by your definition then.
Balance is a thing, and it will come with time (nvn is not so unbalanced i think). It's all the rest.
Why would they sell if they can launch these games in other parts of the world, particularly China, or they can license them to their other growing partners such as mail.ru?
Yes CO is actually really good lately with their vehicles and new content, not to mention the costume contests and rp areas are awesome, and they have personal bases as well. Everyone is just hoping they add some sort of foundry system to it.
THe queue system in this game is bugged and is not a reflection of how many people are in the queue. if you want proof just try quing with 3-5 people ALREADY in the team with a dc and a GF already placed in team it takes a long time also, then ask how long the other two have been in queue. Its almost as if the queue has to evaluate every options even if the spot is already filled.
Even if there are not 2 million people in the game at any given moment the number of quests finished was also impressive and quests are not going to be done by botters/pvpers/ppl invoking ect. The game is far from small or dead just cause your in dead guilds doesn't mean they all are. guilds tend to die if people stop recruiting. because people cap and make new characters or play on alts.
Negitive People is the big downside to the game, its as if they want the game to die, they are not going to shut down the game and relaunch that is an awful idea. the POINT to this game is they will release new things every month or 2, so the game is always fresh, this means they start a bit small,
also to tell people to race to 60 is also shooting themselves in the foot. the leveling process IS the game, the questing IS the game. people who level to 60 then go why is there no end game is like getting a 1 player game using a code to fight the final boss first. then wondering why the game was to short. Try playing the actual game not just powering through it.
Some people like the end grind sure I think wows end game is dull as mud everyone HAS to have the same equipment same build and same enhancements and same powers. then do the same t2 things over and over.
games finished at launch Neocron hit its golden age in its beta unfortunately then they fired their creative team and every "update" made the game worse or more buggy and the people left could not fix it.
TOR felt very finished in its beta also but it was made like a 1 player game with no endgame people finished it in 2 months then they went free to play and now kinda stink.
in short most games that feel finished before launch peak before launch then fade away quickly.
also PWE never sells anything and they keep even their old games open for ever. this is why I like them. sometimes I wonder if half of these forums are developers and or players from other games trying to sabotage NWO.
That said, Neverwinter should be ever-changing and Nevercompleted.
The old warcraft style of stagnant world with a two years wait peroid for the next expansion doesn't exactly fit the definition of an ever-changing, living and breathing world. It is outdated and not likely to be the going format of this ever-changing and never-completed MMORPG world.
And most of people that now complain about wow were people that never reached end game, in my experience at least.
To make a better compare you should compare nvn with recent mmo, like gw2 for example. Here comes the deal.
Nvn would fail if developers will take critics in the same way of "nvn lovers". None here want the game to die. But i feel like Cassandra. When someone make a critic there are people who answer "great, you'r right, this game sucks" and other that climb glasses trying to prove that this game is good. The right way is in the middle.
But when the discussion get serious you see something like "it will be released" or "new content added" and it's pretty clear that NOW the game has not much to offer. So a smart customer will simply leave and check back after some time. 2 or 3 months maybe.
The problem is that players that focused on this game knows that the population is diminishing a lot, and this could kill the game.
So how to save it? Well, developers should act as they are supposed to do. As business men. Improve the game, improve the quality/cost rate.
The game needs money, but why i should spend 60 euros (like a friend of mine did) to have a small game with good ideas bad realized? For a mount to every chars? Omg no...
What most of players don't get is that the game should not be only for pvp lovers, for Dungeons grind lovers, or something else. A good game give players reason to do pvp, or pve, or to play with economy, if you have not enough in real life
But a game can't be focused in only one aspect, and if this aspect is broken this is true even more.
Speaking about an ever changing world... well the road is still long for nvn. I hope they will do it, will be really fun, but even wow is more changing now.
Having fun with leveling? Not rushing to 60? I made 10 level in a week with a CW (that i even deleted) only by leadership and pray. And you should not rush?
The truth is that the game is too easy, and become boring fast. I'm sorry, but that's it.
I think you are carried away by your obsession in some specific games.
The key point is this game is a MMORPG that should features an ever-changing world, i.e., not a completed but stagnant stereotype. Arguing about the relative successfulness of a couple of games like GW2 don't make the other hundreds, if not thousands, of MMORPGs unsuccessful.
You can go to the forums of any game and find the same "this game is dying in a month because it is incomplete" thread but the plain truth is nothing died. How many times have people said "Aion and Blade and Soul are dying in a month if they don't follow GW2's format"? The plain truth is not only are Aion and B&S still alive and kicking, combined they brought in more money than GW2. Some ranters then may go to Nexon and said the same "your games are HAMSTER because they are not in the WoW or GW2 format". Nexon just responed with a huge ROFLMAO with their financial results year after year.
The bottom line is it is worse off for developers to spend like 5 or 6 years just to develop one "complete" but stale game when they can deliver a few ever-changing, living and breathing games for the enjoyments of a broader arrays of players in the same period.
1. if you want to do all content on one char don't invoke and don't do leadership foundry or pvp. the make your second char all
2. make 2-5 charactes split the zone up between your alts, when your alt is not in the range of a zone on the list do pvp, foundry, dailies, ect ad of course invoke. this way each character's leveling experience is unique. once your 60 you ca fill in the blanks.
it is funny how games that are "complete" do great for 3 mo to a year then everyone pitters away. but games that start small and work up seem to last for ever, if you look at other games forums they often refer to NWO as "a pretty good game" not an awesome game or a horrible game... also of course the game seems to be losing people right now because a lot of the OMG NEWGAME!!! people are moving on to the next new game.
the difference is a lot of people will come back to nw every few months to try out the new stuff and each time some people will stay. we don't need 2 million fly by night people in nw to make it a good game. it already is a "pretty good game" and I think it has the stuff to be a great game with time and a loyal following.
Also PWE has an assortment of other cool games STO and CO to play when NWO is at its slow points. since NWO has no monthly fee you don't have to worry about your account being shut down or hitting some sort of money cap when your not actively investing in it.
But one thing to be actively concerned about is a lot of the stable population of NWO is city of heroes people who have just lost a game they have played for up to 10 years and may be afraid to invest in something they may just lose at the whim of a CEO. and STO/CO players who may feel like time that developers spent in NWO is time taken away from their other games. because these people may actually be expecting or even hoping NWO fails.
First, you might want to check with the CO community about how they feel concerning no new zones for the past 2 years, and how they feel about Alerts or temporary events being considered actual content additions.
Star Trek Online is a different beast. It was released years before PWE bought Cryptic, and Cryptic holds the license (Atari was publisher only, despite owning Cryptic at the time). If you think CBS had a clause in the contract where the license rights would transfer to PWE (or any company) upon purchase of Cryptic, you'd be mistaken. So, PWE can only do so much to effect that game. Cryptic has to maintain the game and license, as well as get things vetted and approved by CBS.
PWE did have a say in final development of Neverwinter, however, upon purchasing Cryptic. Unlike CO and STO, NWO was not yet completed or released when PWE became involved with Cryptic. Once PWE purchased the rights to publish Neverwinter from Atari (like with Star Trek Online, Cryptic holds the right to the D&D license from WoTC/Hasbro), it became an MMO as opposed to its original multiplayer co-op design. The change was also approved by WoTC.
Champions Online and Star Trek Online have more bugs than any other Online games I have ever had the ill fortune to waste my time playing. The sad part is, neither of them have the excuse of being F2P games from the start - they both started as P2P! Champions launched with a good leveling system, an interesting system for customizing your characters, and while Cryptic was struggling financially to stay afloat (because they launched the game with barely ANY end-game content) PWI comes in, buys it, and literally every update since then has a handful of minor bug fixes (mostly related to new Cash Shop content they've made) and every update has added in cash shop items, or brought back old events because they refuse to hire enough devs to develop new content.
PWI has a very long history of having a minimal amount of developers working on their games in an effort to cut costs. The problem is, this reflects directly on the game's quality, rate of bugfixes, and rate of new content releases. This is incredibly evident in Neverwinter in several other ways as well: VERY limited assets for Gear, which is why you basically look the same at all levels, a very small amount of real end-game content (besides PVP), Foundry users can generate content but not any that has an impact on your ability to really play the game, besides getting your daily done for AD, regardless of how fun the content may be in some cases to complete, the reward ruins it in the end.
If PWI would devote more dev time to improving the quality of the Foundry, and designing a strictly regulated system where foundry users can develop new Dungeons (with a chance to drop MEANINGFUL rewards at the end, REAL bosses, etc), hell maybe even PVP maps with custom scenarios (Approved maps get added to the list of official maps for PVP queues, others you have to queue for specifically while they are awaiting approval).
Honestly, adding in the ability for users to generate meaningful endgame content would fix a lot of the complaining about "nothing to do" - Nothing to do? Go find yourself an interesting new dungeon crawl, as long or short as you want it, with as many bosses as you are looking for, and a reward that actually means something at the end. Queue up for an endless variety of PVP maps, possibly meaning that PVP is something different and new every time instead of the same old thing.
No, as there are no complete live MMOs. That they are always in development is one of their key features.
Yeah, sure, the game is already poor of contents and i should not do: leadership, foundry, pvp and pray, losing also a lot of AD.
And then? No daily during exp? Because i found really easy to exp and even if was funny in few days you would cap the same.
@Knightfalz:
There's a difference between a mmo in development to add some added value than a mmo that is in development to fix it.
Comparing it to WOW - it has started pretty all right and with the promised releasing content looks like a solid game for the future.
People look at WOW today and think "mmnnn why isn't an MMO released today
like this"? - Well buddy because it took them 6 bloody years to do it.
ID: NW-DD5FLOBTJ Cult of the Dragon Foundry Contest - Please participate and vote for your favourite - 26/6/2014 contest rating begins.
Sir Camps A Lot. Mr SlingShot Boom. XX Phantasmagorical. Jinn Dragonfeast.
SlingShot Boom Jr. Jocan Traders. Little Lord Forgatty, Dwarf Mean and introducing Necro Torquemada (The Warlock)
But since i'm not a stockholder of nvn i will not pay them to develop a game, because this is not how business work. If you want money to develop an uncomplete game call it donation. Founder paid a lot of money but buying a new game cost less.
You think Elvis was the first rockstar? Really?
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
It's a way of saying... but actually he was. Not the first rocker, but the first star indeed. It was not a good thing for him, in fact he died for that.
But... who cares??? Change the name with what you want. The idea remains the same.