Some people need to learn this. If someone tells you not to get involved in their fights, listen and stay out. Last night I had one player get involved in 5 of my fights so I reported him. Tonight I had several more players get involved in my fights. It is called Griefing people as you are ruining other people's fun.
I can see you jumping in if someone is having issues and is low on health. I did that last night to help this CW that was having difficulties and actually died but I rez'd them so they could complete killing the mob they had going. I got a thank you afterwards.
Read this thread. It will explain what is going on. They are neither Griefing OR KSing.
The Loot System in this game is set up so that everyone involved gets a unique reward, as long as they hit the Baddie at least once. You are loosing NOTHING to them, neither items nor exp. You are dealing with Nerf Victims who just want to complete the Solo Game.
'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
Wrong, even 1 hit... even if it is the last hit, it splits the exp into half or beyond. Killstealing is bad, period.
And MOB Experience in this game is meaningless. You Level through missions. In fact, I have never failed to hit 60 WELL before the last Zone. Read some of the Threads requesting the ability to stop gaining EXP so they can do some Foundry missions. And once you hit 60? You don't use the Exp. anyway. Hell, you're welcome to do this with ANY of my characters. It just means that I can check out a few cool looking Foundry missions without out-levelling the entire game. If they respond to Zone Chat I will usually ask them to Group anyway.
'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
I understood people getting mad at KSing hell I got mad in other games too, but seriously? In this one? As others have pointed out it doesn't affect you, unless you feel emasculated having received help on a world mob that dies in 2 seconds naturally anyway, even if it reduces the amount of xp you got from a mob (which is entirely pointless as unless it was a "hard" level mob the amount you lost is beyond miniscule since you level up from quests, not so much grinding. It doesn't affect the loot you get it doesn't affect you at all in fact, except in your case since it seems to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> you off so much.
And no, swooping in and hitting a mob you were hitting is not griefing, heck it's not even KSing because there's no tagging system, the mobs are just there and meant to be killed. Griefing which you are using so incorrectly (play AC darktide if you want to see griefing) in mobs is when you spend your entire time following them going out of your way to inconvenience you, attacking mobs you attack to reduce the xp as much as possible or steal the loot rights altogether, which is only done in games with a tagging system. Since NW doesn't the argument is moot. Griefing really hardly ever applies to PVE anyway since there's a limit to how much someone can actually affect your pve environment. Griefing normally applies to rez camping, spawn camping, something that you know actually affects you in an adverse way. Not something as petty as "MOM!!! THE MEAN GUY HIT MY MOB!!! HE STOLE IT!!!" Seriously this is the furthest thing from griefing it's sad.
If you want to be alone, go do one of the billion foundry quests if you need experience, they're even better for farming chests if you find one you can mass pull (Tired of being a hero ) but you're playing a massively multiplayer online game, so unfortunately there are going to be other people. Get over it.
Lastly, you must have never actually gotten a response from a dev because they were too busy laughing at the fact that you wasted time reporting someone for something that is not actually griefing for you to feel the need to lie about the fact that a response a dev sent you "made you smile". As others have pointed out, they cannot and will not tell you what happens to another player, they thank you for the ticket, pointless though it may be, and say they'll look into it.
This is an mmo with lots of people doing the same thing i doubt anyone is stalking you trying to steal your kills. If walking by i see someone fighting 20 mobs im taking a few swings grab some loot and continue on my way. To get mad and complain about this is just rediculous, its like going to tne park as kid and getting mad that other kids are in the sandbox.
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bobmdqMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited July 2013
Well, i don't know... the last two days has been a complete KSing fest in quite about everymap, i was training some of my lower level chars and i kept seeing level 60's mass killing lower level maps (most probably farming event gift boxes) and in way too many cases they doesn't care if you are fighting your mobs, just come, one hit everything and run to the next spawn. That i think is pretty much annoying, i finally gave up and went to do foundries (by the way, i do not know if it is intended to be like that, but didn't had a single event gift drop while playing foundries)
Plus, the change from one of the last patches which removed the prompt to select stance when changing maps only served to make it easier to end up in crowded maps, i wish that feature would be available again
I personally dislike the attitude of the OP in a gamer, there is a level of griefing in deliberately kill-tagging mobs that are nearly dead on folks from afar etc, but how many times has some little twerp told you to "leave the mobs here, i'm killing them solo" for no reason other than a sense that they have the right to claim the mobs for themselves.
Some people need to learn this. If someone tells you not to get involved in their fights, listen and stay out. Last night I had one player get involved in 5 of my fights so I reported him. Tonight I had several more players get involved in my fights. It is called Griefing people as you are ruining other people's fun.
I can see you jumping in if someone is having issues and is low on health. I did that last night to help this CW that was having difficulties and actually died but I rez'd them so they could complete killing the mob they had going. I got a thank you afterwards.
This bothered me too when I first started the game, but I learned to just live with it. I agree that it's annoying and goes against the etiquette of most MMOs, but no one seems to care.
Also, keep in mind that they may not always be jumping in for no reason. The mobs are closely spaced in funnels, so people often need to run through or near the mobs you are fighting. If they get aggro or their companion gets hit with an AE, they are in the fight whether they want to be or not.
When I'm passing through an area on my level 60 char I often help people I see struggling to kill a mob. I'm not interested in the loot, I just honestly thought it was a nice thing to do. I sure would have appreciated getting some help when I was levelling, it's never once crossed my mind that this could be seen as a bad thing. Maybe it's because I've not played another MMO before this, but this thread has really shocked me.
Kill Stealing or Greifing doesn't matter what you want to label it as. It's rude to do it without asking or maybe the other saying help.
If PWI just says oh well we side with those who want to KS or Grief, why bother playing their games? Once or twice though KSing doesn't really matter in the long run. But when the players decide to follow you around and do it, then it's a problem.
Also maybe they should just make it so that KS'ing will flag you to the first person who hit it :P I love world PVP and sure this can be abused but it'll add great chance to pvp
Did you realize that you were playing on the internet, with other people? This gives people the opportunity to show who they truely are, and be complete sacks of **** with no consequences. Welcome to the internets bro, where 99% of the poeple you meet are total scumbags, because they can be.
Someone doesn't like to share their marbles in the playground...
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jwrenMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited July 2013
Wait a sec, newbie here, does helping someone kill a mob really cause them to lose xp? I help people all the time that look like they're in trouble, on both my GF and DC. I'll think better of it if there's any ill effects.
More likely because you are not a tank and cannot handle 20+ mobs at once yourself.
This behaviour is exactly what pisses off the nice people, alot. Usually i am being ks'ed by TR and CW's.
(Both classes can't tank for s#*! in PvE, and when they see someone killing/trying to kill a massive amount of mobs, they are getting jealous and the GREED kicks in and they attack your mobs.)
This is what's really happening. Wrap it in nice wordings as much as you like. It won't ever change the fact that such behaviour is inappropriate and should be punished.
peace.
Yes, because Control wizards are so woefully inept at killing large groups of mobs that they HAVE to steal from you, they didn't think woah that guy is fighting a lot he must need help.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited July 2013
Is it rude or annoying for someone else to come in and start attacking mobs that you're already fighting? Yes.
Is it against the rules to do so? No.
The game is setup in such a way that all players that do a significant enough amount of damage to enemies get a share of the XP and rewards. Whether this means that they get a drop that you may otherwise have gotten is conjecture.
You can try to reason with the person not to follow you or attack "your" enemies, but there's little recourse you can actually take to prevent them from doing so. Griefing would be more along the lines of another player pulling enemies toward you, in hopes that they kill you.
In the long term, just change instances (if possible) and try to carry on as best you can...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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dragonlover982Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 27Arc User
edited July 2013
CW here and shocker my def is over 1000, haven't ran into a group of mobs (short of in an epic dungeon) that I can't CC to death. no it might not be a 5 second group kill but I can do it.
Maybe that's what is really going on here the big bad tank feels inadequate seeing a squishy CC a group he "should" only be able to handle.
I really wish more MMO players had an IQ higher than a chihuahua
Originally Posted by iuseforum
Game is broken. Unpatch the game
More likely because you are not a tank and cannot handle 20+ mobs at once yourself.
This behaviour is exactly what pisses off the nice people, alot. Usually i am being ks'ed by TR and CW's.
(Both classes can't tank for s#*! in PvE, and when they see someone killing/trying to kill a massive amount of mobs, they are getting jealous and the GREED kicks in and they attack your mobs.)
I'd love to see you fight 40-50 ogres at once like a cw can do.
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fathomfulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 207Bounty Hunter
edited July 2013
What are you talking about OP?
I mean who cares if someone hits a mob you are attacking you still get credit for it unless they are just so outdoing you its not even funny.
Idk about ogres, but i can solo the foundry gold pits. Go ahead and try it on a melee toon. Also as mentioned before, knocking monsters into pits or attacking from a point where the monster cannot reach you is nothing to be proud of, at all.
Okay, let's each do a video of fighting hard mobs in the open.
The foundry map I choose is graveyard shift NW-DT512VU9Y
I have no time for kiddie bs, like this tbh. Go into gold pits with a melee toon, is all i can say.
How is demonstrating that a cw can handle more difficult mobs "kiddie bs"? There's really no shame in just admitting you're wrong, in fact quite the opposite.
Why would I go into gold pits with a melee toon to prove that a cw is better?
Imagine how many of these threads will happen if they merge all the shards.
Personally I don't mind if someone attacks mobs I'm fighting. However, when we are all running around in similar areas trying to do the same things, I object to people who think they are more entitled to a mob then anyone else.
More likely because you are not a tank and cannot handle 20+ mobs at once yourself.
This behaviour is exactly what pisses off the nice people, alot. Usually i am being ks'ed by TR and CW's.
(Both classes can't tank for s#*! in PvE, and when they see someone killing/trying to kill a massive amount of mobs, they are getting jealous and the GREED kicks in and they attack your mobs.)
This is what's really happening. Wrap it in nice wordings as much as you like. It won't ever change the fact that such behaviour is inappropriate and should be punished.
So, what you are saying is that you want to be able to hog all the MoBs in an area, because you can take the damage. Pull an area and claim every MoB as your own? It sounds like the "GREED" that is kicking in is your own. If you are pulling all the mobs in the area, and people need them for quests, you can expect they are going to get their shots in. The fact that you CAN take on all those MoBs at once does not mean you should. I pretty sure that "sharing" is what most consider "appropriate behavior".
We are not talking about exploiting monsters to death by knocking them into a pit. The mobs that i pull would kill any CW, instantly. He could not control them all at once and the rest would just run through the CW and his 900 defense, like a hot knife through butter.
seeya.
Honestly I don't know if you're trolling or if you really haven't seen what any non mouth breathing CW can do, but I assure you punting mobs off platform is just something they do for kicks, they can control an entire room if they know what they're doing and yes for clarification, I do mean a room without pits.
I can tank 20 mobs as a GWF just as well as you can but like the last poster said the idea that you "own" these mobs just because you rounded them up and made them hit you seems more juvenile than anything else. Getting way off topic though, so just to clarify OP KSing is not griefing in the slightest. Following someone around and going out of your way to stop them from enjoying the PVE content is what PVE griefing would be, not "kill stealing".
I've just come to realize that this game doesn't really work the way some other games I've played in the past have. And since you get next to no XP for killing stuff anyway (it's all about Quest XP) and like one or two hits is enough for quest credit and loot, I just learned to roll with it and stop worrying about someone killing "my mobs" since I'm still getting the credit and loot.
I've just come to realize that this game doesn't really work the way some other games I've played in the past have. And since you get next to no XP for killing stuff anyway (it's all about Quest XP) and like one or two hits is enough for quest credit and loot, I just learned to roll with it and stop worrying about someone killing "my mobs" since I'm still getting the credit and loot.
There's one particular quest in the chasm where each time I've done it I've had to kill a particular type of mob, which is especially rare, over and over before it eventually drops anything. I noticed that when it does drop the item it drops it for everyone that was attacking it. Imagine if some self righteous person expected you not to attack it because they'd lose 0.0000000001% of a level in experience. This behaviour is nothing but anti social.
Maybe you people should actually read the Terms of Service that you all agreed to. Particulary section 10 (n) on User Conduct.
(n) Take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.
My enjoyment of this game was affected by these people. Therefor they broke the rules. Therfor it is griefing.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
Maybe you people should actually read the Terms of Service that you all agreed to. Particulary section 10 (n) on User Conduct.
(n) Take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.
My enjoyment of this game was affected by these people. Therefor they broke the rules. Therfor it is griefing.
What if player A gets enjoyment from "helping" others fight enemies? So player A gains enjoyment by an act that player B loses enjoyment from? Who is in the right, here?
Heck, I can say that people shouting in Zone are lessening my enjoyment? Does that mean that I can define them as griefers and get them banned?
The game is specifically and intentionally laid out in such a way that all people who contribute to an enemy's defeat get a portion of the rewards. If being able to intervene was not intended, then why not have enemies get "tagged" for the player who initiated combat, thereby eliminating rewards for others that come later?
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Comments
OK...
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?406801-So-I-have-aquired-a-Friend
Read this thread. It will explain what is going on. They are neither Griefing OR KSing.
The Loot System in this game is set up so that everyone involved gets a unique reward, as long as they hit the Baddie at least once. You are loosing NOTHING to them, neither items nor exp. You are dealing with Nerf Victims who just want to complete the Solo Game.
'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
And MOB Experience in this game is meaningless. You Level through missions. In fact, I have never failed to hit 60 WELL before the last Zone. Read some of the Threads requesting the ability to stop gaining EXP so they can do some Foundry missions. And once you hit 60? You don't use the Exp. anyway. Hell, you're welcome to do this with ANY of my characters. It just means that I can check out a few cool looking Foundry missions without out-levelling the entire game. If they respond to Zone Chat I will usually ask them to Group anyway.
'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
And no, swooping in and hitting a mob you were hitting is not griefing, heck it's not even KSing because there's no tagging system, the mobs are just there and meant to be killed. Griefing which you are using so incorrectly (play AC darktide if you want to see griefing) in mobs is when you spend your entire time following them going out of your way to inconvenience you, attacking mobs you attack to reduce the xp as much as possible or steal the loot rights altogether, which is only done in games with a tagging system. Since NW doesn't the argument is moot. Griefing really hardly ever applies to PVE anyway since there's a limit to how much someone can actually affect your pve environment. Griefing normally applies to rez camping, spawn camping, something that you know actually affects you in an adverse way. Not something as petty as "MOM!!! THE MEAN GUY HIT MY MOB!!! HE STOLE IT!!!" Seriously this is the furthest thing from griefing it's sad.
If you want to be alone, go do one of the billion foundry quests if you need experience, they're even better for farming chests if you find one you can mass pull (Tired of being a hero
Lastly, you must have never actually gotten a response from a dev because they were too busy laughing at the fact that you wasted time reporting someone for something that is not actually griefing for you to feel the need to lie about the fact that a response a dev sent you "made you smile". As others have pointed out, they cannot and will not tell you what happens to another player, they thank you for the ticket, pointless though it may be, and say they'll look into it.
Plus, the change from one of the last patches which removed the prompt to select stance when changing maps only served to make it easier to end up in crowded maps, i wish that feature would be available again
This bothered me too when I first started the game, but I learned to just live with it. I agree that it's annoying and goes against the etiquette of most MMOs, but no one seems to care.
Also, keep in mind that they may not always be jumping in for no reason. The mobs are closely spaced in funnels, so people often need to run through or near the mobs you are fighting. If they get aggro or their companion gets hit with an AE, they are in the fight whether they want to be or not.
If PWI just says oh well we side with those who want to KS or Grief, why bother playing their games? Once or twice though KSing doesn't really matter in the long run. But when the players decide to follow you around and do it, then it's a problem.
Also maybe they should just make it so that KS'ing will flag you to the first person who hit it :P I love world PVP and sure this can be abused but it'll add great chance to pvp
Yes, because Control wizards are so woefully inept at killing large groups of mobs that they HAVE to steal from you, they didn't think woah that guy is fighting a lot he must need help.
Is it against the rules to do so? No.
The game is setup in such a way that all players that do a significant enough amount of damage to enemies get a share of the XP and rewards. Whether this means that they get a drop that you may otherwise have gotten is conjecture.
You can try to reason with the person not to follow you or attack "your" enemies, but there's little recourse you can actually take to prevent them from doing so. Griefing would be more along the lines of another player pulling enemies toward you, in hopes that they kill you.
In the long term, just change instances (if possible) and try to carry on as best you can...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Maybe that's what is really going on here the big bad tank feels inadequate seeing a squishy CC a group he "should" only be able to handle.
I mean who cares if someone hits a mob you are attacking you still get credit for it unless they are just so outdoing you its not even funny.
Okay, let's each do a video of fighting hard mobs in the open.
The foundry map I choose is graveyard shift NW-DT512VU9Y
Why would I go into gold pits with a melee toon to prove that a cw is better?
^
this thread in a nutshell.
.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
Personally I don't mind if someone attacks mobs I'm fighting. However, when we are all running around in similar areas trying to do the same things, I object to people who think they are more entitled to a mob then anyone else.
glassdoor.com - Cryptic Studios Review
So, what you are saying is that you want to be able to hog all the MoBs in an area, because you can take the damage. Pull an area and claim every MoB as your own? It sounds like the "GREED" that is kicking in is your own. If you are pulling all the mobs in the area, and people need them for quests, you can expect they are going to get their shots in. The fact that you CAN take on all those MoBs at once does not mean you should. I pretty sure that "sharing" is what most consider "appropriate behavior".
Honestly I don't know if you're trolling or if you really haven't seen what any non mouth breathing CW can do, but I assure you punting mobs off platform is just something they do for kicks, they can control an entire room if they know what they're doing and yes for clarification, I do mean a room without pits.
I can tank 20 mobs as a GWF just as well as you can but like the last poster said the idea that you "own" these mobs just because you rounded them up and made them hit you seems more juvenile than anything else. Getting way off topic though, so just to clarify OP KSing is not griefing in the slightest. Following someone around and going out of your way to stop them from enjoying the PVE content is what PVE griefing would be, not "kill stealing".
I have to agree with you on that.
THANK YOU for this post.
i tried it and griefing is a lot of fun. i think more people should play this game and grief, its awesome!
(n) Take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.
My enjoyment of this game was affected by these people. Therefor they broke the rules. Therfor it is griefing.
What if player A gets enjoyment from "helping" others fight enemies? So player A gains enjoyment by an act that player B loses enjoyment from? Who is in the right, here?
Heck, I can say that people shouting in Zone are lessening my enjoyment? Does that mean that I can define them as griefers and get them banned?
The game is specifically and intentionally laid out in such a way that all people who contribute to an enemy's defeat get a portion of the rewards. If being able to intervene was not intended, then why not have enemies get "tagged" for the player who initiated combat, thereby eliminating rewards for others that come later?
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums