Even if it won't hurt rogues in pvp as much in pve it will still hurt them a good amount. They're taking all that crit severity from 60% maxed to 15% max.
Even if it won't hurt rogues in pvp as much in pve it will still hurt them a good amount. They're taking all that crit severity from 60% maxed to 15% max.
Sure that will hurt rogues in PvP, but it won't destroy them like it will in PvE. There are still plenty of effective PvP builds which don't rely on Lurker's.
Poll needs to have a fourth "do nothing" option. Simply because I dont plan on doing any of those choices. I just dont see a need to change my rogue yet. Granted, she only hit 60 recently and im still using a mismatched full on have-no-clue leveling build. Had this patch happened after i had a build locked in. Id most likely be more upset. So i have sympathy for the folks effected by this.
I agree with do nothing because this will hardly change my rogue since it is a custom build and not a cookie cutter stealth build. People are still going to be crying for TRs to be nerfed because this nerf with not hurt people that do not heavily rely on what is being nerfed.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
I agree with do nothing because this will hardly change my rogue since it is a custom build and not a cookie cutter stealth build. People are still going to be crying for TRs to be nerfed because this nerf with not hurt people that do not heavily rely on what is being nerfed.
People will still cry nerf because it barely effects pvp rogues. Rogues will still be able to insta kill classes from stealth and they will still be able to do a full CoS from stealth. This nerf effects more PvE rogues then PvP. And if you use a custom build then you are probably fine as well in which you are right people will still cry for nerfs.
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raddatackMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
When did they change it? Because i could of sworn it was critseverity.
there are feats that increase crit severity, its always been a damage boost.
I am already playing EQ again, just dropped another 40 bucks buying reign of fear expansion. Been an awesome blast with my guild. I just got tired with EVERYTHING PW has done and what they are about, the TR nerf was just the nail in the coffin.
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silvergryphMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
edited July 2013
My main is a 60 TR.
If it drastically affects my playstyle and I don't already have the points in the powers to switch to then I will use the free respec. I doubt I will have to. And yes, there will be free respecs. Anyone who tries to tell you there won't be probably has no experience with Cryptic games or is likely just deliberately fanning the flames.
I have been playing MMOs for a long time. This is par for the course. Classes get changed, core mechanics get altered. It is to be expected.
And I actually like changing Lurker's to crit severity because it is much more thematically fitting for a Trickster Rogue. I do think its too much of an overall damage reduction though. If they make it +15% Crit Chance AND +15% Crit Severity it would still be an excellent daily power.
If it drastically affects my playstyle and I don't already have the points in the powers to switch to then I will use the free respec. I doubt I will have to. And yes, there will be free respecs. Anyone who tries to tell you there won't be probably has no experience with Cryptic games or is likely just deliberately fanning the flames.
I have been playing MMOs for a long time. This is par for the course. Classes get changed, core mechanics get altered. It is to be expected.
And I actually like changing Lurker's to crit severity because it is much more thematically fitting for a Trickster Rogue. I do think its too much of an overall damage reduction though. If they make it +15% Crit Chance AND +15% Crit Severity it would still be an excellent daily power.
People are talking about the overall dmg nerf, not neccessarily just the lurkers change(though it is an extreamly heavy handed nerf). I agree that if they changed it to lesser amounts of each crit chance AND severity it would be much better, but as it stands now the nerfs as a whole were hap hazardly done. As i said in a previous post, they should have trickled these nerfs out to get a feel for the impact of each one individually. People expect nerfs where nerfs are needed especially in MMOs. People dont expect an entire class rework that will effectively make somewhere around 70% of rogues builds/gear sets obsolete.
Edit: 70% is a number i kinda just pulled outta my *** btw lol. I just think that most pve rogues use an executioner spec and use Lurkers as there main goto damage daily.
If it goes live as-is? Well, I use Sly Flourish so DF won't hurt much(Shut up I like SF). CoS, that sucks, I use it all the time during boss fights when I can't get in close to still use it. At-wills taking stealth? Literally halves the number of hits I can get in with SF over the course of a meter. 10 hits to 5. Ouch. Lurker's? I posted some quick numbers pulled from beating up trash mobs in foundries elsewhere, but it's *bad*. Like, almost halved damage bad. Barely better than normal and even with a shorter duration; combined with the at-wills taking stealth away you can't actually stay in stealth through the whole thing. It's seriously awful.
My TR on live is OKish, he's got a bad natural level-up 'this sounds cool' build and an 8.7k GS. My TR on Preview is awful.
I'll probably try to find a respec that doesn't bother with LA or rely on stealth(Yes, let's make the class feature so useless it's not worth bothering with half the time), and see how it goes, but... My guild is already dead, I've never even done GG because of that, and all I actually like doing is dungeons/Foundry quests. Which, I'm now going to be useless in the former and unsurvivable in the latter.
Largely inactive, playing Skyforge as Nai Calus.
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twerkulatorrMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 55Arc User
edited July 2013
Switching to my alt Guard which is already moderately geared. Unless someone can figure out a new spec that is equivalent in DPS to our current abilities (which I highly doubt)...
I wouldnt call it ragequitting, but the game has slowly and surely gotten boring for me. Nerf after nerf, lack of content from the start, limited zone exploration. And now the latest nerf to the rogue, which actually took some time and AD to get to where hes at with fitting gear for the spec. Now the spec is dying, why play a non stealthy rogue when you can already play non-stealthy yet more resilient damage dealers a.ka all classes except the DC.
I dont see the point with the nerf. The module is also a month away or close to it. 5 days after it's release FFXIV is released and right now it looks like a better option, 2 months after that it's time for BF4. Everything in the module that seemed fun is very heavy on your AD stash. 1.5mill for a fully trained companion (grey to purple), 750k for a blue to purple. 50k AD for personal instance keys? Atleast thats what I've seen from the test forums.
Freedom is being snatched, so I'm not sure I'm even gonna bother with the module. I currently have GW2 and BF3 to enjoy. There is currently nothing I enjoy in NW, I log on to pray and do leadership missions.
Same. Except, I already quit playing. There is nothing to do. I don't even pray anymore. I just look at the forums and watch how bad it's getting.
I had a dc, tr, cw and gwf. The gwf I never finished because, running the same quests that many times got extremely boring.
TL : DR? Then don't waste my time responding.
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jihancritiasMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If it goes live as-is? Well, I use Sly Flourish so DF won't hurt much(Shut up I like SF). CoS, that sucks, I use it all the time during boss fights when I can't get in close to still use it. At-wills taking stealth? Literally halves the number of hits I can get in with SF over the course of a meter. 10 hits to 5. Ouch. Lurker's? I posted some quick numbers pulled from beating up trash mobs in foundries elsewhere, but it's *bad*. Like, almost halved damage bad. Barely better than normal and even with a shorter duration; combined with the at-wills taking stealth away you can't actually stay in stealth through the whole thing. It's seriously awful.
My TR on live is OKish, he's got a bad natural level-up 'this sounds cool' build and an 8.7k GS. My TR on Preview is awful.
I'll probably try to find a respec that doesn't bother with LA or rely on stealth(Yes, let's make the class feature so useless it's not worth bothering with half the time), and see how it goes, but... My guild is already dead, I've never even done GG because of that, and all I actually like doing is dungeons/Foundry quests. Which, I'm now going to be useless in the former and unsurvivable in the latter.
I used flurry simply because it's the best at-will. My other was sly flourish, for when a mob only needed a couple hits, or I had to run over and over again, and couldn't start flurry. Flourish is a good at-will though. It's sad that the dailies are junk now. Lashing blade is the hardest ability, until that gets nerfed as well. SE daily doesn't hit nearly as hard. All that was left was LA. And, changing stealth like that is weak. I guess they are trying to force players in to certain specs, instead of experimentation. More money for them now, if they don't give a respec, less later when players don't experiment.
TL : DR? Then don't waste my time responding.
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bpskibbenheimsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 210Bounty Hunter
Switching to my alt Guard which is already moderately geared. Unless someone can figure out a new spec that is equivalent in DPS to our current abilities (which I highly doubt)...
Yea I don't think anyone will find a build that does numbers like we can do now on the live, and it seems we aren't meant to. Unless new paragon paths bring new big dmg to the table. Saw a thread where huckafive posted some images of what seems to be moves from a new tree for us ... On my phone so I couldn't see details really.
-Sir Bartholomew P. Skibbenheims III, Esquire, Twice Removed
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shaedousMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited July 2013
I already have pretty much shelved my TR as I found my CW to be more viable in every aspect. PvE I won't even bother after the planned changes but when it comes to PvP the changes aren't too drastic at all (not a perma stealth build and pretty much using stealth only for skill changes currently, and CoS only to harrass or drop players from mounts), so if these changes go live I'm pretty much sure I'm only doing professions and PvP dailies on my TR.
Keira Shortcloak@shaedous, lvl 60 Trickster Rogue, Beholder - I feel bad for being a FotM abuser, really.
TR is not the first class to get nerfed.
Remember GWF ? From OP to -60% damage ? Then from useless back to OP ?
Think they all quit playing ?
Remember Cleric before they fixed the aggro ? Running with all the adds on their butt, all day long, after a simple 1k heal ? Did they quit ? Did they quit after the 4 nerfs they got when they nerfed Astral Shield ?
You are mad because you won't be able to perform as good as you do now, because your class is broken. If you can't adapt, then you are a nub who like easy mode. Simple.
The stealth was breaking both PVE and PVP, and Lurker Assault was mandatory because it's so ****ing OP atm.... +60% damage...
Now what ? You won't be able to OS people in pvp with LA ? So what ? You'll still be able to daze them to death. You think that DCs and CWs feel better in pvp ? They are the #1 preys.
If you are thinking of quitting just because you'll get stripped of your easy mode, that's kind of pathetic.
Maybe you should even be aware that Lashing Blade might get some nerf someday.
Now that the TR is going to be tone down to the level of DC and CW, I can't wait for the future nerf of Conqueror GF and GWF. These classes are even more PVP breaking, though they are not PVE breaking like stealth rogue.
TR is not the first class to get nerfed.
Remember GWF ? From OP to -60% damage ? Then from useless back to OP ?
Think they all quit playing ?
Remember Cleric before they fixed the aggro ? Running with all the adds on their butt, all day long, after a simple 1k heal ? Did they quit ? Did they quit after the 4 nerfs they got when they nerfed Astral Shield ?
You are mad because you won't be able to perform as good as you do now, because your class is broken. If you can't adapt, then you are a nub who like easy mode. Simple.
The stealth was breaking both PVE and PVP, and Lurker Assault was mandatory because it's so ****ing OP atm.... +60% damage...
Now what ? You won't be able to OS people in pvp with LA ? So what ? You'll still be able to daze them to death. You think that DCs and CWs feel better in pvp ? They are the #1 preys.
If you are thinking of quitting just because you'll get stripped of your easy mode, that's kind of pathetic.
Maybe you should even be aware that Lashing Blade might get some nerf someday.
Now that the TR is going to be tone down to the level of DC and CW, I can't wait for the future nerf of Conqueror GF and GWF. These classes are even more PVP breaking, though they are not PVE breaking like stealth rogue.
The problem is Dev's solving PvP problems by killing PvE. The rogue nerfs is like changing crescendo into free unstoppable. While being unstoppable u can only deal 75% of ur encounter and atwill damage and dealing damage will lose determination. For the people who are not in a guild or have lots of online friends to play with, ultimately rogue nerf will hurt them the most.
Me switching from TR to GWF is only because if my guild needs me to run CN, I can do more dps with GWF than TR thus I will be on my GWF.
Nevermore@meeggtoast 12.2 BiS TR Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
Well I remember they said that they intented to tone down the difficulty in dungeons. I hope it was not the small patch of the last week because it was worthless. They need to re-work on T1 and T2 dungeons, the add fest cause glitching and kiting to be mandatory and that is a problem. They need to tone down dungeons, so we can finish it without bug exploiting. If they do so, the nerf on TR or any other class would be indiscernible.
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited July 2013
Sorry, this falls in line with the no I quit rule. As well, please use one of the existing allowed threads to provide feedback. We don't need, and the Devs don't need, multiple posts all over. Thanks!
Please free free to express one's opinions there-in, RoC abiding. The Devs are aware, the Mods know this for a fact as our Community Managers specifically asked us to help them find relevant feedback. Multiple threads on the topic do not help. If feedback is on Test-Server changes, please also use an existing thread, as there are also two others on similar TR topics, yet varied enough to warrant both. Thanks!
Comments
60% damage, not 60% critseverity
Sure that will hurt rogues in PvP, but it won't destroy them like it will in PvE. There are still plenty of effective PvP builds which don't rely on Lurker's.
I agree with do nothing because this will hardly change my rogue since it is a custom build and not a cookie cutter stealth build. People are still going to be crying for TRs to be nerfed because this nerf with not hurt people that do not heavily rely on what is being nerfed.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
People will still cry nerf because it barely effects pvp rogues. Rogues will still be able to insta kill classes from stealth and they will still be able to do a full CoS from stealth. This nerf effects more PvE rogues then PvP. And if you use a custom build then you are probably fine as well in which you are right people will still cry for nerfs.
When did they change it? Because i could of sworn it was critseverity.
It was never crit severity, that is what they are nerfing to though. The original gave a 60% damage bonus, now it will be 15% crit severity.
there are feats that increase crit severity, its always been a damage boost.
I am already playing EQ again, just dropped another 40 bucks buying reign of fear expansion. Been an awesome blast with my guild. I just got tired with EVERYTHING PW has done and what they are about, the TR nerf was just the nail in the coffin.
If it drastically affects my playstyle and I don't already have the points in the powers to switch to then I will use the free respec. I doubt I will have to. And yes, there will be free respecs. Anyone who tries to tell you there won't be probably has no experience with Cryptic games or is likely just deliberately fanning the flames.
I have been playing MMOs for a long time. This is par for the course. Classes get changed, core mechanics get altered. It is to be expected.
And I actually like changing Lurker's to crit severity because it is much more thematically fitting for a Trickster Rogue. I do think its too much of an overall damage reduction though. If they make it +15% Crit Chance AND +15% Crit Severity it would still be an excellent daily power.
Champions Online Advanced Forum Search
People are talking about the overall dmg nerf, not neccessarily just the lurkers change(though it is an extreamly heavy handed nerf). I agree that if they changed it to lesser amounts of each crit chance AND severity it would be much better, but as it stands now the nerfs as a whole were hap hazardly done. As i said in a previous post, they should have trickled these nerfs out to get a feel for the impact of each one individually. People expect nerfs where nerfs are needed especially in MMOs. People dont expect an entire class rework that will effectively make somewhere around 70% of rogues builds/gear sets obsolete.
Edit: 70% is a number i kinda just pulled outta my *** btw lol. I just think that most pve rogues use an executioner spec and use Lurkers as there main goto damage daily.
They basically took a situation that required a scalpel and some patience, and used a hand grenade instead.
My TR on live is OKish, he's got a bad natural level-up 'this sounds cool' build and an 8.7k GS. My TR on Preview is awful.
I'll probably try to find a respec that doesn't bother with LA or rely on stealth(Yes, let's make the class feature so useless it's not worth bothering with half the time), and see how it goes, but... My guild is already dead, I've never even done GG because of that, and all I actually like doing is dungeons/Foundry quests. Which, I'm now going to be useless in the former and unsurvivable in the latter.
Twitch.TV/Twerkulatorr
Peter Puffer's Foundation @ Mindflayer
Same. Except, I already quit playing. There is nothing to do. I don't even pray anymore. I just look at the forums and watch how bad it's getting.
I had a dc, tr, cw and gwf. The gwf I never finished because, running the same quests that many times got extremely boring.
I used flurry simply because it's the best at-will. My other was sly flourish, for when a mob only needed a couple hits, or I had to run over and over again, and couldn't start flurry. Flourish is a good at-will though. It's sad that the dailies are junk now. Lashing blade is the hardest ability, until that gets nerfed as well. SE daily doesn't hit nearly as hard. All that was left was LA. And, changing stealth like that is weak. I guess they are trying to force players in to certain specs, instead of experimentation. More money for them now, if they don't give a respec, less later when players don't experiment.
Yea I don't think anyone will find a build that does numbers like we can do now on the live, and it seems we aren't meant to. Unless new paragon paths bring new big dmg to the table. Saw a thread where huckafive posted some images of what seems to be moves from a new tree for us ... On my phone so I couldn't see details really.
Never did follow meta, only thing that actually hurts is the Lurker's nerf and the at-wills stealth depletion.
Everything else is negligible.
Remember GWF ? From OP to -60% damage ? Then from useless back to OP ?
Think they all quit playing ?
Remember Cleric before they fixed the aggro ? Running with all the adds on their butt, all day long, after a simple 1k heal ? Did they quit ? Did they quit after the 4 nerfs they got when they nerfed Astral Shield ?
You are mad because you won't be able to perform as good as you do now, because your class is broken. If you can't adapt, then you are a nub who like easy mode. Simple.
The stealth was breaking both PVE and PVP, and Lurker Assault was mandatory because it's so ****ing OP atm.... +60% damage...
Now what ? You won't be able to OS people in pvp with LA ? So what ? You'll still be able to daze them to death. You think that DCs and CWs feel better in pvp ? They are the #1 preys.
If you are thinking of quitting just because you'll get stripped of your easy mode, that's kind of pathetic.
Maybe you should even be aware that Lashing Blade might get some nerf someday.
Now that the TR is going to be tone down to the level of DC and CW, I can't wait for the future nerf of Conqueror GF and GWF. These classes are even more PVP breaking, though they are not PVE breaking like stealth rogue.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
The problem is Dev's solving PvP problems by killing PvE. The rogue nerfs is like changing crescendo into free unstoppable. While being unstoppable u can only deal 75% of ur encounter and atwill damage and dealing damage will lose determination. For the people who are not in a guild or have lots of online friends to play with, ultimately rogue nerf will hurt them the most.
Me switching from TR to GWF is only because if my guild needs me to run CN, I can do more dps with GWF than TR thus I will be on my GWF.
Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF
Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
Server: Dragon
Stream: meeggtoast
Guide: Meeggtoast's Destroyer Dps Guide
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
The two we are currently allowing/merging/directing to are:
(live shard discussions)
New Changes to Rogue.
Stealth Build Now Dead....
Please free free to express one's opinions there-in, RoC abiding. The Devs are aware, the Mods know this for a fact as our Community Managers specifically asked us to help them find relevant feedback. Multiple threads on the topic do not help. If feedback is on Test-Server changes, please also use an existing thread, as there are also two others on similar TR topics, yet varied enough to warrant both. Thanks!
(test shard discussions)
Rouge nerfs need to be nerfed
Good suggestions to the TR nerf instead of raging.
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