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Forums > Home› Class Forums› The Thieves' Den

at this point...

faulkalfaulkal Member Posts: 34
edited July 2013 in The Thieves' Den
after reading over the nerfs the TR is getting (i have a 60 GF and 60 GWF) would it be worth lvling a rogue? seems they are more wanted than a GWF and sure gfs are good but idk, they dont seem as much fun as i thought they would be for end game.
Post edited by faulkal on

Comments

  • warstormforumwarstormforum Member Posts: 41
    edited July 2013
    if the nerfs go trough not really a GWF will both outdamage and tank a rogue at that point making them pretty much useless in pvp.
  • bpskibbenheimsbpskibbenheims Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 210 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    IMO people are overreacting to the nerfs. The nerfs decimate the stealth rogue builds sure ... But I think most everyone expected that to get nerfed whether they agreed or not. Execution builds will still be pvp an dps monsters. It is toned down but still dominant.
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  • huckafivehuckafive Banned Users Posts: 47
    edited July 2013
    bpskibbenheims wrote: »
    IMO people are overreacting to the nerfs. The nerfs decimate the stealth rogue builds sure ... But I think most everyone expected that to get nerfed whether they agreed or not. Execution builds will still be pvp an dps monsters. It is toned down but still dominant.
    thing is, PVP performance didnt even get nerfed by much, its the PVE performance that gets a huge hit
    and that it what botheres most
  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    yourll still be doing the most single target damage, so do not worry.
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  • lltsnwnlltsnwn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 787 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    faulkal wrote: »
    after reading over the nerfs the TR is getting (i have a 60 GF and 60 GWF) would it be worth lvling a rogue? seems they are more wanted than a GWF and sure gfs are good but idk, they dont seem as much fun as i thought they would be for end game.

    If you wanted to play a TR because they were OVER POWERED, used a perma-stealth game mechanic that was obviously broken, 1-shot players from stealth, etc then no you should NOT play a rogue. If you enjoy playing the rogue class and group role then yes play, continue and create a TR.

    All obviously broken, overpowered, etc classes will over time be nerfed as it is the nature of MMORPGs. Either you can CHOOSE to chase the latest OP class bandwagon flavor of the month which will over time be nerfed or you can stick with the class you enjoy playing because of its group role, game mechanics, etc.
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  • huckafivehuckafive Banned Users Posts: 47
    edited July 2013
    grimah wrote: »
    yourll still be doing the most single target damage, so do not worry.
    yeah, but only cause all other classes are doing aoe damage...so even if we would only deal 1 damage per hit, it would still be the highest single target damage and thus that is a mood point :)
  • adozuadozu Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    if you know how executioner builds pve damage you'd see why the nerf is so bad.

    they nerfed the 4 of the 5 things that made that build viable: deadly momentum, flurry fixed stacks, lurker assault and stealth (for brutal backstab)

    now pls nerf overrun critical too so it doesn't feel left out.
  • savagedeaconsavagedeacon Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    huckafive wrote: »
    thing is, PVP performance didnt even get nerfed by much, its the PVE performance that gets a huge hit
    and that it what botheres most
    That is the point. Already the class was squishy and had trouble against the bosses expecially those that spawned a lot of adds but now...it could at most solo Tinker Bell in her bad day
  • bpskibbenheimsbpskibbenheims Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 210 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    huckafive wrote: »
    thing is, PVP performance didnt even get nerfed by much, its the PVE performance that gets a huge hit
    and that it what botheres most

    We are still going to be the best single target DPS and that will still be very useful for boss encounters. Things get a bit harder, bu they were already easy. I typically would end DDs with over 2m more dmg than anyone else in the run.

    The only thing really wrong is we are used to this damage and as such upset about it being decreased. There is a big knee jerk reaction, but had we started with the class like this we likely would be blissfully happy with it. It's not ideal but we aren't ruined.
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  • huckafivehuckafive Banned Users Posts: 47
    edited July 2013
    bpskibbenheims wrote: »
    We are still going to be the best single target DPS

    when youre the only one good at single target dps, then you will always be also the best at single target dps ;)

    its not really a point
  • abandinusabandinus Member Posts: 62
    edited July 2013
    huckafive wrote: »
    yeah, but only cause all other classes are doing aoe damage...so even if we would only deal 1 damage per hit, it would still be the highest single target damage and thus that is a mood point :)

    I hate moody points... lmao ;)
  • neyph69neyph69 Banned Users Posts: 150 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Anyone that is using the "still top single target dps" point is just silly...rogues are the ONLY single target dps in the game. Besides that, as others have stated, these nerfs dont even effect pvp too much. Rogues will still be able to kill people 100-0 while stealthed with CoS, shadow strike, lashing. I find it funny that people are complaining about a rogues single target damage...ITS WHAT THERE MEANT TO DO. CWs can 1-2 shot people just as easy as a rogue can, only difference is they cant do it from stealth. Instead they can do it from very far away. Why not decrease the range and damage on Ice Knife? Every class is the knife to another classes butter. Put a rogue against a good GWF/GF and you will see how bad rogues are. Put them against a CW/DC and it will feel OP.
  • bpskibbenheimsbpskibbenheims Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 210 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    huckafive wrote: »
    when youre the only one good at single target dps, then you will always be also the best at single target dps ;)

    its not really a point
    It is a point, you just don't get it or Aren't satisfied by it.

    Your definition of a being the "only one good" single target DPS really should be "rediculously superior" single target DPS.
    neyph69 wrote: »
    Anyone that is using the "still top single target dps" point is just silly...rogues are the ONLY single target dps in the game. Besides that, as others have stated, these nerfs dont even effect pvp too much. Rogues will still be able to kill people 100-0 while stealthed with CoS, shadow strike, lashing. I find it funny that people are complaining about a rogues single target damage...ITS WHAT THERE MEANT TO DO. CWs can 1-2 shot people just as easy as a rogue can, only difference is they cant do it from stealth. Instead they can do it from very far away. Why not decrease the range and damage on Ice Knife? Every class is the knife to another classes butter. Put a rogue against a good GWF/GF and you will see how bad rogues are. Put them against a CW/DC and it will feel OP.



    Guess what? If there is 1 target everyone is doing single target DPS.

    We ... are ... spoiled. Our DPS will be lower, things will be more challenging, but that is okay. We will still be needed for groups, we will still top the damage charts. We just won't lead by millions. Our role hasn't changed and until some class does it better neither has our value.

    All of this is a knee jerk reaction and now people are trying to make sure everyone is as angry as they are about it. If people just want to be mad, then by all means be mad. I am going to continue to have fun.

    One more edit just to say ... God I hate posting from my phone.
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  • huckafivehuckafive Banned Users Posts: 47
    edited July 2013
    bpskibbenheims wrote: »
    It is a point, you just don't get it or dont want to get it.

    Your definition of a being the "only one good" single target DPS really should be "rediculously superior" single target DPS. Guess what? If there is 1 target everyone is doing single target DPS.
    but others are using aoe attacks...cause when there are multiple targets then rogues are still doing singletarget damage and not magicly aoe damage too

    its you that doesnt understand his own point, thats even more funny then abombs always changing opinion :)
  • bpskibbenheimsbpskibbenheims Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 210 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    huckafive wrote: »
    but others are using aoe attacks...cause when there are multiple targets then rogues are still doing singletarget damage and not magicly aoe damage too

    its you that doesnt understand his own point, thats even more funny then abombs always changing opinion :)

    Nope.

    Others doing aoe dmg to mobs that aren't my focus is moot. Other classes roles are moot. My point is we still perform our jobs better than any other class that wants to try; therefore, we are still valuable in pve.
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  • huckafivehuckafive Banned Users Posts: 47
    edited July 2013
    when a GWF with his aoe attack does the same damage as a TR with his singletarget attack....then why would anyone pick a rogue for dungones?

    AOE > singletarget cause it hits more targets (obviously)

    so either youre trolling hardcore now or you dont know the meaning of "highest singletarget damage"
  • bpskibbenheimsbpskibbenheims Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 210 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Classes with AOEs were always superior with multiple targets. The cumulative value of one aoe across multiple targets adds up to more dmg of course. A GWF with an aoe that hits harder than our single attacks, even if hitting harder on a single target, doesn't mean he generates more DPS at the end of the fight on that single target. How often is he doing it is a huge factor. As it stands we will still do it better ... Albeit not ending runs with 2million plus more dmg then the other classes will be over.

    Are we worried that we won't e as useful clearing mounds of trash mobs, or as useful when our role is to DPS a boss. On runs where our job is to work adds rather than boss it will be a bit more hairy. Best I can tell running things with guildies on the pts we still will do very well for ourselves.
    "Confusion is the T-Rex of tire faucets."
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  • savagedeaconsavagedeacon Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    You are looking at it from the point of view of teams or guilds but there are also players that like to solo and they have the right to have fun like everyone else. They are the ones more damaged from the nerfs. I know: if you are on a team your team mates can adjust for any shortcomings that you have but that is to run around the problem instead of facing it. The rogue like , every other class, has to be able to solo any quest that the devs have intended to be soloable not to have to ask for help for them.
  • savagedeaconsavagedeacon Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    roguenerfbatman wrote: »
    Working as intended. Its really more of a lrn2play issue.
    If with working like intended you mean L2buy scrools of resurection (that will cost you zen) you are right
  • lichlamentlichlament Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    adozu wrote: »
    if you know how executioner builds pve damage you'd see why the nerf is so bad.

    they nerfed the 4 of the 5 things that made that build viable: deadly momentum, flurry fixed stacks, lurker assault and stealth (for brutal backstab)

    now pls nerf overrun critical too so it doesn't feel left out.

    ^ this guy gets it.
  • bpskibbenheimsbpskibbenheims Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 210 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    savagedeacon wrote: »
    You are looking at it from the point of view of teams or guilds but there are also players that like to solo and they have the right to have fun like everyone else. They are the ones more damaged from the nerfs. I know: if you are on a team your team mates can adjust for any shortcomings that you have but that is to run around the problem instead of facing it. The rogue like , every other class, has to be able to solo any quest that the devs have intended to be soloable not to have to ask for help for them.

    Maybe so. I won't argue that, I haven't pushed much solo on the pts, and I don't have a leveling rogue to run to something like rhinehound to see how it goes either. I know running in groups with the damage I have pulled I still felt pretty good. Lead still by several hundred thousand. Down a lot from a couple million on avg, but I don't know ... I just don't feel "ruined."

    Check these numbers ... if its right it will tell you what is what ...

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?420191-Test-Shard-vs-Live-Shard-Numbers
    "Confusion is the T-Rex of tire faucets."
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  • roguenerfbatmanroguenerfbatman Banned Users Posts: 111 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    I dont know what you guys are so worried about. Take heart from your forums rogues previous posts and see how they relate back to your predicament.

    I see it as needing to play your class, not all classes should be able to beat other classes thing, paper scissors rock thing.

    Working as intended thing.
  • banterbanebanterbane Member Posts: 32
    edited July 2013
    roguenerfbatman wrote: »
    I dont know what you guys are so worried about. Take heart from your forums rogues previous posts and see how they relate back to your predicament.

    I see it as needing to play your class, not all classes should be able to beat other classes thing, paper scissors rock thing.

    Working as intended thing.


    It was playing our class that caused the problems in the first place -- now that our class is no longer quite our class we can only wait and see. I know you are simply a troll, because your post is so ridiculous, especially with your sentence about classes beating other classes considering this is what we already had and still will have with no real difference from the TR perspective.
  • healhamstahealhamsta Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 572 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    roguenerfbatman wrote: »
    I dont know what you guys are so worried about. Take heart from your forums rogues previous posts and see how they relate back to your predicament.

    I see it as needing to play your class, not all classes should be able to beat other classes thing, paper scissors rock thing.

    Working as intended thing.

    ('-')
    That's just bad game design.
    All classes SHOULD be able to beat all other classes BUT paper should have an advantage against rock, rock against scissors, scissors against paper.
    This way, a person who's skilled enough should be able to win through skill instead of winning because of what class they are & what they're fighting.

    True rock, paper, scissors is boring & just dumb.
    Why would paper ever bother fighting a scissor? They'd just run on sight knowing they'll lose.
    Delve loot murdered my TR, DC, & GWF. Nerf Plox:
    ambisinisterr wrote: »
    I know that it sucks to no longer get gear to sell from the Dungeon Delve chest but it was truly overpowered.
  • savagedeaconsavagedeacon Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The paper rock scissor thing was born in DCUO , but there is about the roles not the classes and it affect controllers, healers, tanks not dps and there everyone has a double role and can switch to the dps role anytime he wants.It would not work here.
    IN pvp any class should be able to face any other class with a fair chance to win
  • zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited July 2013
    Please use one of the existing allowed threads to provide feedback. We don't need, and the Devs don't need, multiple posts all over. Thanks!

    The two we are currently allowing/merging/directing to are:
    (live shard discussions)
    New Changes to Rogue.
    Stealth Build Now Dead....

    Please free free to express one's opinions there-in, RoC abiding. The Devs are aware, the Mods know this for a fact as our Community Managers specifically asked us to help them find relevant feedback. Multiple threads on the topic do not help. If feedback is on Test-Server changes, please also use an existing thread, as there are also two others on similar TR topics, yet varied enough to warrant both. Thanks!

    (test shard discussions)
    Rouge nerfs need to be nerfed
    Good suggestions to the TR nerf instead of raging.
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