Hello folks. I would like to give a little bit of an outside perspective. I probably will not return to the forums (and do not intend to even log in and play the game at this point), so feel free to quote this if you find it in any way insightful, and place it in a forum where the Devs -might- look. Firstly, I am a D&D fan, NOT an MMO fan, so I may have a different perspective. I tend to like fighter/mages and stealth-based classes (rangers over rogues, but I do enjoy rogues as well!), and it would seem as of this new update that an iteration of a D&D game will have...neither? Further, I find it odd that a base mechanic of a class would be all but taken away as a means of balance; wouldn't an easier solution be to fix or outright change obtained abilities rather than a defining characteristic of the class? Would you then decide that a few the CW's spells are too powerful, so instead of fixing -those- spells, let's hamstring their spell resource so that they can't cast those spells as often? That would force them into bouts of melee, and would certainly limit the problematic spells, but would also tamper with a defining characteristic of the class in an awful way. What you intend to do here with the rogue is a very similar thing.
My sole MMO experience has been with Star Wars: The Old Republic. In the early stages of that game, the devs did much the same thing in major knee-jerk reactions to players' complaints about other classes. What happened was a mess and they spent more time trying to unwind their hasty decisions than creating new content. What followed was a two-phase loss of player base. The first phase was fallout from hamstringing classes, taking the game from one side of a "pendulum swing" of imbalance to the other, without coming near to rest in the middle ground. People left in droves, because they didn't fix anything, they just put the game in a different state of imbalance. Then, while they devoted all efforts to try and fix this issue, naturally developing new content or even fixing bugs/issues with current content came to a grinding halt. This sparked phase two of player-base loss, as players complained that the game was full of glitches (which it was!), had little to no endgame content, and quickly became stagnant. The result was a loss of nearly 60% of the player base, which their (admittedly, terrible) free to play model as not even recovered half of over a year later. In all fairness, they did get the issue fixed and I personally think it's a decent game now (if you are a subscriber), but they don't have anywhere near the players now and most are not likely ever coming back. Pertinent to Neverwinter, I personally am unwilling to repeat the experience even for a game selling me a D&D brand I've loved for close to 30 years.
My point in this is that, by attempting to address a small percentage of (often deafeningly) vocal complainers, the devs are alienating as many current and in all probability, many prospective players, as they try to oil the squeaky wheel too quickly. Many current players that encounter these situations will quietly leave, like the majority of dissatisfied customers at a restraunt. And, like in the restraunt industry, reputation and word of mouth will prevent others from coming along as well. I, personally, downloaded the installer today and was waiting for the game to download. I came to the forums to research the classes, though I kind of already had an idea what the game offered. Quite frankly, none of the classes are anything like the classes in the D&D system, even considering 4th edition's "PnP MMO" transition. But I figure, a stealther's a stealthier, right? I decided I would try a rogue to get a feel for the game, and then work into trying the other classes. And then I start reading the devs are killing the class, making the primary feature of a stealth class (you know, the stealth?) a total after-thought and in all likelihood useless. Returning to my restraunt analogy, I am what the industry calls "the 2%." I am am leaving before I even sit down to eat, because something about your establishment has turned me off. That is not uncommon, BUT I am, politely, letting you know what it is that turned me off so that you -might- take steps to change it. Regardless, I will not be back unless I hear, through positive word of mouth, that direct and considerable steps were taken to rectify the problem. However, you may still fix the issue for the others who feel as I do but will choose to simply quietly move on. Thank you, and to the players- (try to) enjoy!
Oh, one last thing...abombination247's praise of your efforts and support will only last as long as it takes you to get to what ever class/classes s/he prefers and tweak something s/he finds unpleasant, and then they will unleash fury on you faster than anyone else. I've seen it over and over again on the swtor forums. Just a bit of advice, before you take their posts as any kind of example that you are moving in the right direction (as the individual seems all too happy to post 25 million times that they are happy to see this class gutted); indeed, I would not take them as anything more than a bitter antagonist of the people who play a class s/he obviously dislikes.
Further, I find it odd that a base mechanic of a class would be all but taken away as a means of balance; wouldn't an easier solution be to fix or outright change obtained abilities rather than a defining characteristic of the class?
Stealth isn't all but taken away, in general, or permastealth in particular. Permastealth simply takes a bit more effort and some equipment adjustments on test (for some a different build if they don't have an Ioun Stone), and will work fine in PvE. I have no PvP experience, so I'll let others say how it will fare there.
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Stealth isn't all but taken away, in general, or permastealth in particular. Permastealth simply takes a bit more effort and some equipment adjustments on test (for some a different build if they don't have an Ioun Stone), and will work fine in PvE. I have no PvP experience, so I'll let others say how it will fare there.
I dont think he means taken away in a literal sense. But the mechanic of stealth in general has been greatly inhibited upon all rogues.
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sreredrumMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
im just gonna go ahead and quit now since I see this is how they work. I had this exact issue with blizzard doing this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> every time enough of the dim-wit population complained about something. Every game is going to have that, since the general population of the earth is 90%+ selfish little mindless trolls. (idiocracy was actually a true story, it just can't portray itself as such since that might break the universe to do so)
At least blizzard puts out a good enough product to be worth dealing with poor reactions like this though.
Told the people at grinding gear games to add an ah/mail to path of exile and then let the gaming community know, since then they'd have a real product to sell, and telling you guys the same thing but in reverse. Do everything else better than you already have, or expect to be Age of Conan obscurity in a year or 2. (and that was a hell of a lot better game than this)
Stealth isn't all but taken away, in general, or permastealth in particular. Permastealth simply takes a bit more effort and some equipment adjustments on test (for some a different build if they don't have an Ioun Stone), and will work fine in PvE. I have no PvP experience, so I'll let others say how it will fare there.
Well then adjust it more ? Have first damage break stealth and then put it on a 45 sec CD. /fixed
Well then adjust it more ? Have first damage break stealth and then put it on a 45 sec CD. /fixed
Heh, maybe they will. However, at some point, if they wish to continue adjusting it, they will adjust it to the point where not only is permastealth impossible, but any practical use of stealth will also be negated.
Rather than carry things to that extreme, they may be wiser to simply abandon the concept of stealth itself, and adjust the powers and feats accordingly, and simply have other types of Rogues on offer.
I dont think he means taken away in a literal sense. But the mechanic of stealth in general has been greatly inhibited upon all rogues.
Inhibited, but not so much as some believe. Although, if one wants to remain in stealth for a good period of time, then one must sacrifice more than now, in terms of damage.
Essentially, the opportunity cost of stealth has gone up. One must focus now on recharge, even if using Gloaming Cut. If one doesn't want to use a stone for additional recharge, then a focus on Int is required even with Gloaming Cut, where it was not before.
Heh, maybe they will. However, at some point, if they wish to continue adjusting it, they will adjust it to the point where not only is permastealth impossible, but any practical use of stealth will also be negated.
Rather than carry things to that extreme, they may be wiser to simply abandon the concept of stealth itself, and adjust the powers and feats accordingly, and simply have other types of Rogues on offer.
This is brilliant! Really wish rogues didn't have stealth in this game and they came up with a unique Rogue concept instead of just going with the lazy stealth. This is what happens they give it stealth say forget about it till its exploited then it has to be fixed. If some serious thought was put into building a Trickster Rogue and doing some unique tab abilities then the game could of been just a lil more unique. Don't know if they can go with such a major change now though.
This is brilliant! Really wish rogues didn't have stealth in this game and they came up with a unique Rogue concept instead of just going with the lazy stealth. This is what happens they give it stealth say forget about it till its exploited then it has to be fixed. If some serious thought was put into building a Trickster Rogue and doing some unique tab abilities then the game could of been just a lil more unique. Don't know if they can go with such a major change now though.
I think you are working at Cryptic studios and trying and failing to counter all this negativity. If you really are a game user i cannot describe what i think of your brain size cause of rules of behavior in this forum.
Stealth isn't all but taken away, in general, or permastealth in particular. Permastealth simply takes a bit more effort and some equipment adjustments on test (for some a different build if they don't have an Ioun Stone), and will work fine in PvE. I have no PvP experience, so I'll let others say how it will fare there.
In effect stealth has been negated on the test server. While it is a great idea to introduce other rogue concepts that are less stealth dependent, the way the class has been created and implemented means that stealth is a necessary feature as a means of damage mitigation. While rogues are mobile, to do damage they need to be in melee range (haven't played with respeccing to Daggermaster yet) and even with defense stacked they are highly vulnerable.
These changes mean that rogues are GF's who hit a little faster/harder but can't take any hits.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
I play this game a lot and i love it, i made a TR from the start to enjoy a class i have been playing since early PC games. Nerfing lurker's will ruin PvE for us. We will be replaced by GWF in most dungeons. While i do not support the perma stealh rogue build, what about the broken GWF build in PvP? Why are tenebrous still Offense slot item?
Nerfing us because of PvP players crying is crazy.
You will lose a lot of player's if this goes live..I ask you to think about this before hand.
If those players are all TR's you wont be missed TRUST ME.
I think you are working at Cryptic studios and trying and failing to counter all this negativity. If you really are a game user i cannot describe what i think of your brain size cause of rules of behavior in this forum.
I almost spit out my coffee this morning that was a good chuckle. I am a game user and love playing this game. I do agree it is a shame that no one tries to abide by forum policies and respect opinions and it always ends in a flame contest but so far keep your fingers crossed been pretty good the last couple days.
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percefusMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Do everything else better than you already have, or expect to be Age of Conan obscurity in a year or 2. (and that was a hell of a lot better game than this)
Not to change the subject here but Age of Conan at least had some great dungeons and raids, a lot more challenging and much more thought out experience. I don't just mean more adds like here, the timing of the adds and the raid mechanics as a whole. At a certain time in the fight it took a certain class to attack the boss and then the boss would change and another class would fight it because of the abilities of that class. Was a lot more fun and challenging and when you were lucky enough to get a drop for your class it actually felt like you earned it. It also felt more like a actual battle.....
A Proud Member Of THE 300 Guild - Tene's are nothing but P2W, Nerf or Remove please!
Not to change the subject here but Age of Conan at least had some great dungeons and raids, a lot more challenging and much more thought out experience. I don't just mean more adds like here, the timing of the adds and the raid mechanics as a whole. At a certain time in the fight it took a certain class to attack the boss and then the boss would change and another class would fight it because of the abilities of that class. Was a lot more fun and challenging and when you were lucky enough to get a drop for your class it actually felt like you earned it. It also felt more like a actual battle.....
Ago of Conan is the only MMO that had a combat system that was better than Neverwinter. Too bad that game also sucked major as$ just like NW. In fact, it was even more full of bugs and exploits than Neverwinter, surprisingly. Funcom didn't even attempt to fix that game either. Even with all of the problems Neverwinter has, at least Cryptic tries to fix all of the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in this game.
I do agree that AoC's dungeons and boss encounters might be a lot more engaging, as they included actual boss and fight mechanics, rather than this game's simplistic game design. But again, AoC was also filled with more bugs and exploits that went unfixed for much longer than NW. The only things I liked about AoC was the combat system, violence, graphics, and open world PvP. Everything else in that game was complete trash.
If those players are all TR's you wont be missed TRUST ME.
I'll respond as though you were making a constructive comment. Actually, they will be missed a great deal by any and all players who ever PUG a skirmish or dungeon.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Not to change the subject here but Age of Conan at least had some great dungeons and raids, a lot more challenging and much more thought out experience. I don't just mean more adds like here, the timing of the adds and the raid mechanics as a whole. At a certain time in the fight it took a certain class to attack the boss and then the boss would change and another class would fight it because of the abilities of that class. Was a lot more fun and challenging and when you were lucky enough to get a drop for your class it actually felt like you earned it. It also felt more like a actual battle.....
When did that come out ?
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malphaeousMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 88
edited July 2013
I played WoW from Launch through three expansions, and we (Rogues) were nerfed every time we killed a mage in PvP and everytime we topped a damage meter in PVE. and every time we were nerfed they said it was a class killer, but the fact is that the good players adapted the bad ones switched to classes that got easy buttons. I doubt that this is a class killer but it really is a bad move for the devs to follow the WoW model on this one. in PVP melee classes should slaughter ranged classes if we get close, with very little chance of escape. Ranged classes should likewise Slaughter Melee classes if they can get range on us, again with very little chance of escape. melee classes should be on fairly even footing with each other, one has more armor/life/survivability stuff the other has more damage.if you cant deal with a game where your CW cant beat a rogue who got close you should seriously re-evaluate your skills playing your class, and if you go into PvP specced and geared for PvE expect to die a lot I do...
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Did I mention, I do not have good intentions?
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percefusMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
MAY OF 2008, It's still around and F2P , I played (Subbed) it for about a year maybe a bit longer, dungeons were fun, attacking another guilds battlekeep was too but there were many many bugs in the game.....
A Proud Member Of THE 300 Guild - Tene's are nothing but P2W, Nerf or Remove please!
In effect stealth has been negated on the test server.
Since I'm just a hair's width short of permastealth on test, and I still have a fair amount of enchantment slots left to be filled, it hasn't been negated as you suggest. It simply requires more investment in recharge than previously.
Since I'm just a hair's width short of permastealth on test, and I still have a fair amount of enchantment slots left to be filled, it hasn't been negated as you suggest. It simply requires more investment in recharge than previously.
Well lets bring this to the Dev's attention now so they can negate it further because it is not intended. Come out of stealth stay awhile its ok to so your true self.
Well lets bring this to the Dev's attention now so they can negate it further because it is not intended. Come out of stealth stay awhile its ok to so your true self.
Of course it's intended.
If it wasn't the developers would have changed something so it wasn't possible, since they are currently revising the class. Or, are you suggesting they don't know how recharge affects the cooldown of their powers or what cooldowns are needed for permastealth based on the powers they designed?
Anyway, the developers are reading the boards for feedback and it's no secret in various Rogue threads that permastealth is still possible, so it's in no way a secret to them should they want to adjust it further.
If it wasn't the developers would have changed something so it wasn't possible, since they are currently revising the class. Or, are you suggesting they don't know how recharge affects the cooldown of their powers or what cooldowns are needed for permastealth based on the powers they designed?
Anyway, the developers are reading the boards for feedback and it's no secret in various Rogue threads that permastealth is still possible, so it's in no way a secret to them should they want to adjust it further.
Well I hope they do adjust it further so its not possible for the sake of a good game.
Well I hope they do adjust it further so its not possible for the sake of a good game.
They might yet. We'll see. I'm just thankful my build isn't married to permastealth, so that my starting stats allow me to respec and do something else if need be. If they do finally make permastealth impossible it's going to be a bit more painful for TRs that invested heavily in Int, unfortunately.
They might yet. We'll see. I'm just thankful my build isn't married to permastealth, so that my starting stats allow me to respec and do something else if need be. If they do finally make permastealth impossible it's going to be a bit more painful for TRs that invested heavily in Int, unfortunately.
Well it was smart to theory craft and make a Intel perma stealth TR but lets be honest perma stealth isn't good for the game or was intended. If you don't feel that way fine we disagree but any time you try to make a build that breaks the mold of what is accepted you have to imagine that a Fix will happen to what you make at some point. Perma stealth is a nice gimmick but anyone making it had to know that it would not stay.
Well it was smart to theory craft and make a Intel perma stealth TR but lets be honest perma stealth isn't good for the game or was intended. If you don't feel that way fine we disagree but any time you try to make a build that breaks the mold of what is accepted you have to imagine that a Fix will happen to what you make at some point. Perma stealth is a nice gimmick but anyone making it had to know that it would not stay.
Well, it was smart to make an Int permastealth TR, if one didn't mind the risk that it may eventually be made obsolete. I didn't want that risk and only PvE so I went with a stat layout that lets me switch course.
Permastealth is a nice build in some ways, and not all that nice in others.
It is a better for PvP than PvE. I have found in PvE that such a build for the most part limits you to solo play, or playing with other permastealth TRs, as playing with others that can't permastealth brings back the red patches and such.
Sure, I can switch out some powers and group with others, but I don't end up with the same potential I would have in PvE if I didn't focus on maintaining permastealth. It is definitely a build that comes with some pretty hefty opportunity costs.
But, at the same time it allows me to do things no other build can.
I'll let the developers figure out what they intend stealth to finally be and decide how good permastealth is for the game. Whatever their choice, I will be able to adapt and continue to enjoy my TR regardless.
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stabzmcnastyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited July 2013
I'm so glad I read this thread before giving Perfect World anymore money.
Since I'm just a hair's width short of permastealth on test, and I still have a fair amount of enchantment slots left to be filled, it hasn't been negated as you suggest. It simply requires more investment in recharge than previously.
Running a non-int permastealth with Skulker's and very high recovery, Gloaming Cut still depletes more stealth than it fills with maxed Sneaky Stabber. A single DF eats the entire stealth bar.
Well lets bring this to the Dev's attention now so they can negate it further because it is not intended. Come out of stealth stay awhile its ok to so your true self.
Look, I get the fact that you want to kill rogues in PvP and top the DPS charts. I'm very glad you were honest about your priorities. But clearly stealth is intended as it is the core mechanic of the rogue class. It is a feature, not a bug. And it has been working as intended all along.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Running a non-int permastealth with Skulker's and very high recovery, Gloaming Cut still depletes more stealth than it fills with maxed Sneaky Stabber. A single DF eats the entire stealth bar.
I have a similar set up, but with Stalkers and an Ioun Stone I'm mostly devoting to recharge (neither the equipment or stone are fully slotted yet). My Gloaming Cut + Sneaky Stabber doesn't deplete more stealth than it fills, it about breaks even. The animation time does make my stealth harder to renew on time sometimes. With more recharge this may not be so. My DF gives me the same experience as yours. Thankfully, these aren't all that is available.
I'm looking at this only from a PvE perspective, so if you don't have the stone to work with, then permastealth would probably be pretty difficult.
Nerfing TR's stealth & LA is like nerfing GF's, knockdown to deaths combo & block/damage mitigation, GWF's death lockdowns & regen/damage mitigation, DC's 1 shotting & heals/damage mitigation, CW's 2 shotting & dodge/control.
People in Cryptic who seriously wana balance the game please nerf all those abilities from other classes as well if you want to nerf TRs. Otherwise, compensate the TRs with base 90% / 100% critical severity OR change LA to for the entire duration of the daily of 7 secs, the TR cannot stealth but crits with all attacks for the TR class to REMAIN competitive in PVE
If TR only receive nerfs but not compensated, then when it goes live cryptic can say bye bye to their cash cow.
Comments
My sole MMO experience has been with Star Wars: The Old Republic. In the early stages of that game, the devs did much the same thing in major knee-jerk reactions to players' complaints about other classes. What happened was a mess and they spent more time trying to unwind their hasty decisions than creating new content. What followed was a two-phase loss of player base. The first phase was fallout from hamstringing classes, taking the game from one side of a "pendulum swing" of imbalance to the other, without coming near to rest in the middle ground. People left in droves, because they didn't fix anything, they just put the game in a different state of imbalance. Then, while they devoted all efforts to try and fix this issue, naturally developing new content or even fixing bugs/issues with current content came to a grinding halt. This sparked phase two of player-base loss, as players complained that the game was full of glitches (which it was!), had little to no endgame content, and quickly became stagnant. The result was a loss of nearly 60% of the player base, which their (admittedly, terrible) free to play model as not even recovered half of over a year later. In all fairness, they did get the issue fixed and I personally think it's a decent game now (if you are a subscriber), but they don't have anywhere near the players now and most are not likely ever coming back. Pertinent to Neverwinter, I personally am unwilling to repeat the experience even for a game selling me a D&D brand I've loved for close to 30 years.
My point in this is that, by attempting to address a small percentage of (often deafeningly) vocal complainers, the devs are alienating as many current and in all probability, many prospective players, as they try to oil the squeaky wheel too quickly. Many current players that encounter these situations will quietly leave, like the majority of dissatisfied customers at a restraunt. And, like in the restraunt industry, reputation and word of mouth will prevent others from coming along as well. I, personally, downloaded the installer today and was waiting for the game to download. I came to the forums to research the classes, though I kind of already had an idea what the game offered. Quite frankly, none of the classes are anything like the classes in the D&D system, even considering 4th edition's "PnP MMO" transition. But I figure, a stealther's a stealthier, right? I decided I would try a rogue to get a feel for the game, and then work into trying the other classes. And then I start reading the devs are killing the class, making the primary feature of a stealth class (you know, the stealth?) a total after-thought and in all likelihood useless. Returning to my restraunt analogy, I am what the industry calls "the 2%." I am am leaving before I even sit down to eat, because something about your establishment has turned me off. That is not uncommon, BUT I am, politely, letting you know what it is that turned me off so that you -might- take steps to change it. Regardless, I will not be back unless I hear, through positive word of mouth, that direct and considerable steps were taken to rectify the problem. However, you may still fix the issue for the others who feel as I do but will choose to simply quietly move on. Thank you, and to the players- (try to) enjoy!
Oh, one last thing...abombination247's praise of your efforts and support will only last as long as it takes you to get to what ever class/classes s/he prefers and tweak something s/he finds unpleasant, and then they will unleash fury on you faster than anyone else. I've seen it over and over again on the swtor forums. Just a bit of advice, before you take their posts as any kind of example that you are moving in the right direction (as the individual seems all too happy to post 25 million times that they are happy to see this class gutted); indeed, I would not take them as anything more than a bitter antagonist of the people who play a class s/he obviously dislikes.
Stealth isn't all but taken away, in general, or permastealth in particular. Permastealth simply takes a bit more effort and some equipment adjustments on test (for some a different build if they don't have an Ioun Stone), and will work fine in PvE. I have no PvP experience, so I'll let others say how it will fare there.
I dont think he means taken away in a literal sense. But the mechanic of stealth in general has been greatly inhibited upon all rogues.
At least blizzard puts out a good enough product to be worth dealing with poor reactions like this though.
Told the people at grinding gear games to add an ah/mail to path of exile and then let the gaming community know, since then they'd have a real product to sell, and telling you guys the same thing but in reverse. Do everything else better than you already have, or expect to be Age of Conan obscurity in a year or 2. (and that was a hell of a lot better game than this)
Well then adjust it more ? Have first damage break stealth and then put it on a 45 sec CD. /fixed
Heh, maybe they will. However, at some point, if they wish to continue adjusting it, they will adjust it to the point where not only is permastealth impossible, but any practical use of stealth will also be negated.
Rather than carry things to that extreme, they may be wiser to simply abandon the concept of stealth itself, and adjust the powers and feats accordingly, and simply have other types of Rogues on offer.
Inhibited, but not so much as some believe. Although, if one wants to remain in stealth for a good period of time, then one must sacrifice more than now, in terms of damage.
Essentially, the opportunity cost of stealth has gone up. One must focus now on recharge, even if using Gloaming Cut. If one doesn't want to use a stone for additional recharge, then a focus on Int is required even with Gloaming Cut, where it was not before.
This is brilliant! Really wish rogues didn't have stealth in this game and they came up with a unique Rogue concept instead of just going with the lazy stealth. This is what happens they give it stealth say forget about it till its exploited then it has to be fixed. If some serious thought was put into building a Trickster Rogue and doing some unique tab abilities then the game could of been just a lil more unique. Don't know if they can go with such a major change now though.
I think you are working at Cryptic studios and trying and failing to counter all this negativity. If you really are a game user i cannot describe what i think of your brain size cause of rules of behavior in this forum.
In effect stealth has been negated on the test server. While it is a great idea to introduce other rogue concepts that are less stealth dependent, the way the class has been created and implemented means that stealth is a necessary feature as a means of damage mitigation. While rogues are mobile, to do damage they need to be in melee range (haven't played with respeccing to Daggermaster yet) and even with defense stacked they are highly vulnerable.
These changes mean that rogues are GF's who hit a little faster/harder but can't take any hits.
If those players are all TR's you wont be missed TRUST ME.
I almost spit out my coffee this morning that was a good chuckle. I am a game user and love playing this game. I do agree it is a shame that no one tries to abide by forum policies and respect opinions and it always ends in a flame contest but so far keep your fingers crossed been pretty good the last couple days.
Not to change the subject here but Age of Conan at least had some great dungeons and raids, a lot more challenging and much more thought out experience. I don't just mean more adds like here, the timing of the adds and the raid mechanics as a whole. At a certain time in the fight it took a certain class to attack the boss and then the boss would change and another class would fight it because of the abilities of that class. Was a lot more fun and challenging and when you were lucky enough to get a drop for your class it actually felt like you earned it. It also felt more like a actual battle.....
A Proud Member Of THE 300 Guild - Tene's are nothing but P2W, Nerf or Remove please!
Ago of Conan is the only MMO that had a combat system that was better than Neverwinter. Too bad that game also sucked major as$ just like NW. In fact, it was even more full of bugs and exploits than Neverwinter, surprisingly. Funcom didn't even attempt to fix that game either. Even with all of the problems Neverwinter has, at least Cryptic tries to fix all of the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in this game.
I do agree that AoC's dungeons and boss encounters might be a lot more engaging, as they included actual boss and fight mechanics, rather than this game's simplistic game design. But again, AoC was also filled with more bugs and exploits that went unfixed for much longer than NW. The only things I liked about AoC was the combat system, violence, graphics, and open world PvP. Everything else in that game was complete trash.
I'll respond as though you were making a constructive comment. Actually, they will be missed a great deal by any and all players who ever PUG a skirmish or dungeon.
When did that come out ?
A Proud Member Of THE 300 Guild - Tene's are nothing but P2W, Nerf or Remove please!
Since I'm just a hair's width short of permastealth on test, and I still have a fair amount of enchantment slots left to be filled, it hasn't been negated as you suggest. It simply requires more investment in recharge than previously.
Well lets bring this to the Dev's attention now so they can negate it further because it is not intended. Come out of stealth stay awhile its ok to so your true self.
Of course it's intended.
If it wasn't the developers would have changed something so it wasn't possible, since they are currently revising the class. Or, are you suggesting they don't know how recharge affects the cooldown of their powers or what cooldowns are needed for permastealth based on the powers they designed?
Anyway, the developers are reading the boards for feedback and it's no secret in various Rogue threads that permastealth is still possible, so it's in no way a secret to them should they want to adjust it further.
Well I hope they do adjust it further so its not possible for the sake of a good game.
Fixed it for you.
They might yet. We'll see. I'm just thankful my build isn't married to permastealth, so that my starting stats allow me to respec and do something else if need be. If they do finally make permastealth impossible it's going to be a bit more painful for TRs that invested heavily in Int, unfortunately.
Well it was smart to theory craft and make a Intel perma stealth TR but lets be honest perma stealth isn't good for the game or was intended. If you don't feel that way fine we disagree but any time you try to make a build that breaks the mold of what is accepted you have to imagine that a Fix will happen to what you make at some point. Perma stealth is a nice gimmick but anyone making it had to know that it would not stay.
Well, it was smart to make an Int permastealth TR, if one didn't mind the risk that it may eventually be made obsolete. I didn't want that risk and only PvE so I went with a stat layout that lets me switch course.
Permastealth is a nice build in some ways, and not all that nice in others.
It is a better for PvP than PvE. I have found in PvE that such a build for the most part limits you to solo play, or playing with other permastealth TRs, as playing with others that can't permastealth brings back the red patches and such.
Sure, I can switch out some powers and group with others, but I don't end up with the same potential I would have in PvE if I didn't focus on maintaining permastealth. It is definitely a build that comes with some pretty hefty opportunity costs.
But, at the same time it allows me to do things no other build can.
I'll let the developers figure out what they intend stealth to finally be and decide how good permastealth is for the game. Whatever their choice, I will be able to adapt and continue to enjoy my TR regardless.
Running a non-int permastealth with Skulker's and very high recovery, Gloaming Cut still depletes more stealth than it fills with maxed Sneaky Stabber. A single DF eats the entire stealth bar.
Look, I get the fact that you want to kill rogues in PvP and top the DPS charts. I'm very glad you were honest about your priorities. But clearly stealth is intended as it is the core mechanic of the rogue class. It is a feature, not a bug. And it has been working as intended all along.
I'm looking at this only from a PvE perspective, so if you don't have the stone to work with, then permastealth would probably be pretty difficult.
People in Cryptic who seriously wana balance the game please nerf all those abilities from other classes as well if you want to nerf TRs. Otherwise, compensate the TRs with base 90% / 100% critical severity OR change LA to for the entire duration of the daily of 7 secs, the TR cannot stealth but crits with all attacks for the TR class to REMAIN competitive in PVE
If TR only receive nerfs but not compensated, then when it goes live cryptic can say bye bye to their cash cow.