ninjaalexisMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited July 2013
It's sad you Cryptic staff don't learn from the mistakes of others mmo who done the same, nerfing classes in the end loosing plenty of players that decided to stop playing. Instead of nerf 1 class, take example of Blizz that raised the "powers" of other classes making them more balanced and subtle nerfing the others by not changing anything. They know that if they lower a class utility, people will be mad and the company ll loose money. Good luck with this patch, but I ll tell you, you have nothing to gain after you ll implement.
Please tell me this is a joke. If any class is to be nerfed this much it should be GFW's, they didn't do anything to them and nerfed the heck out of a class that was already nerfed, and taking away the essentials of a TR. It would be better not to nerf anybody really, I mean if they had to choose a class. I'm a CW and I never had a problem with TR's in PvP, but I run away from GWF's because you need 2+ people to take one down, and they regain their health and are immune to everything and over half the time are in unstoppable and kill me within 3 seconds with normal attacks. Now one of the only classes that could take them down 1v1 can't anymore. No offence GWF's.
This will also hurt PvE, TR's will be unable to be able to fight bosses due to the lack of stealth. They nerfed a class so much that I'm sure people will kick a TR no matter how good they are in both PvE and PvP. You guys are basically killing a class off, forcing all the TR's to either quit or make a new class and start over. That's how useless TR's will be. It would be much better if there was a slight nerf on stealth, but really? Even at-will attacks lower stealth, you have to be kidding me.
I THOUGHT this was a decent company, but apparently they just "balance" classes by listening to noobs that don't know how to fight, I'm questioning if they even played this game. But it doesn't stop their, seals are now useless too. Great If they go through with this who know's what bad decisions will be made in the future, it will be the down fall of a perfectly good game.
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mewbreyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 517Bounty Hunter
edited July 2013
Wish they would stop making games with pve and pvp, and just make separate games it's clear they cant strike a happy medium, and I'm tired of pvp ruining the pve that I enjoy, as I am sure it feels the same way for pvp'ers.
ta1ch0u1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
so.... after playing it on test with my TR;
WHAT THE F**K?? Do you devs even play the same game we do? Or when you play do you just give yourselves the gear you want with commands?
I have full swashbuckling and skulkers gear; plus a stone, ran with both. I am str/executioner.
After running a few group instances I find myself trying to keep just above the DC in DPS when I used to top the charts. I know all that should matter is if we were successful but wtf? When on bosses I can only use stealth to try to get off 1 encounter or a few vollyes of cloud of steel; 6-7, can not even get 3 hits off of duelist flurry; the third strike alone will eat a full stealth bar. So stealth is only useful for a buff to damage on a one time major hit or a few minor ones.
Lurkers assault barley gives any bonus to the damage i do now. LA also is hard to tell if your in it when you have soulforged enchants on your gear. The TP it does seams to be off and moves me to the center of the mob. Not to mention the nerf they didn't tell you about in patch notes to its duration.
I get the nerf to cloud of steel , we are strikers not ranged dps.
Just seams our only class advantage was stealth and single target dps, and they pretty much took that away from us. Most of our feats are centered around stealth but now its mostly useless along with so many of our other skills. They have killed our only 2 useful dailies and replaced it with nothing. The set bonus from the new gear looks to give us a poison dot, how about replace stealth with poison? But would that make us more of an assassin class than rogue? Did they even play D&D? How do The Wizards of The Coast even sign off on this?
Boss encounter still seam to be more adds than mechanics; should really change the name of this game to,"The Floor is Lava."
If this castration of the rogue class was for PVP, we were not even the top of the charts. GWF rule PVP now and seams like the will for the foreseeable future. As for PVE why bring a rogue when you can have another CW?
So if this goes live as is, will you be offering us the ability to unbind our companion stones from a now useless class? You really should just save everyone the belly aching of trying to deal with it, and do what you seam to want to do and delete the TR.
Lastly why BOP on seal gear? Some one else all ready hit on this but by the time i have enough drake seals for anything I no longer need the gear. Since I only have access to my classes gear i can not gear out my companions. So I spend tons of seals to get a companion I dont need, and sell items that take awhile to get for 1.5 gold? WTF?
WHAT THE F**K?? Do you devs even play the same game we do? Or when you play do you just give yourselves the gear you want with commands?
I have full swashbuckling and skulkers gear; plus a stone, ran with both. I am str/executioner.
After running a few group instances I find myself trying to keep just above the DC in DPS when I used to top the charts. I know all that should matter is if we were successful but wtf? When on bosses I can only use stealth to try to get off 1 encounter or a few vollyes of cloud of steel; 6-7, can not even get 3 hits off of duelist flurry; the third strike alone will eat a full stealth bar. So stealth is only useful for a buff to damage on a one time major hit or a few minor ones.
Lurkers assault barley gives any bonus to the damage i do now. LA also is hard to tell if your in it when you have soulforged enchants on your gear. The TP it does seams to be off and moves me to the center of the mob. Not to mention the nerf they didn't tell you about in patch notes to its duration.
I get the nerf to cloud of steel , we are strikers not ranged dps.
Just seams our only class advantage was stealth and single target dps, and they pretty much took that away from us. Most of our feats are centered around stealth but now its mostly useless along with so many of our other skills. They have killed our only 2 useful dailies and replaced it with nothing. The set bonus from the new gear looks to give us a poison dot, how about replace stealth with poison? But would that make us more of an assassin class than rogue? Did they even play D&D? How do The Wizards of The Coast even sign off on this?
Boss encounter still seam to be more adds than mechanics; should really change the name of this game to,"The Floor is Lava."
If this castration of the rogue class was for PVP, we were not even the top of the charts. GWF rule PVP now and seams like the will for the foreseeable future. As for PVE why bring a rogue when you can have another CW?
So if this goes live as is, will you be offering us the ability to unbind our companion stones from a now useless class? You really should just save everyone the belly aching of trying to deal with it, and do what you seam to want to do and delete the TR.
This guy gets it.
---"Old age and deviousness will always overcome youth and enthusiasm." Visit Eminence Gaming | Dragon's All Adult, "Casually Hardcore" PvE/PvP Guild | Now Recruiting Exceptional Applicants
I don't get why they can't just improve damage reduction or hp for pvp. Give gf and GWF +40%, clerics +30-35%, and tr/cw +25%. Sooo many other games have implemented something like this in pvp.
As for killing perma-stealth rogues, I find it pretty simple as a non-perma stealth rogue. I move around in stealth until I see them nearby. I attack them and they lose the rest of their meter.
Even though I think the "nerfs" are excessive, I'm pretty sure I'll still top the K:D ratios every game. I don't rely on LA, it was just the icing on the cake. Gfs and GWFs are going to be a lot harder to kill now though.
I suggest making LA do +40-50% crit severity. The damage will still be less than the original +60% base damage increase and you won't be losing as much of your TR customer base.
I agree with the CoS charge reduction, but a -33% decrease is too much. 10 would be more balanced IMO.
The decrease of stealth meter when using at wills kind of defeats the purpose of a TR and will wreck and stealth feats we have (which are a lot). I mean, if you do this you might as well make all classes deplete their meter if they attack and it's active...
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dnnfbMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
WHAT THE F**K?? Do you devs even play the same game we do? Or when you play do you just give yourselves the gear you want with commands?
I have full swashbuckling and skulkers gear; plus a stone, ran with both. I am str/executioner.
After running a few group instances I find myself trying to keep just above the DC in DPS when I used to top the charts. I know all that should matter is if we were successful but wtf? When on bosses I can only use stealth to try to get off 1 encounter or a few vollyes of cloud of steel; 6-7, can not even get 3 hits off of duelist flurry; the third strike alone will eat a full stealth bar. So stealth is only useful for a buff to damage on a one time major hit or a few minor ones.
Lurkers assault barley gives any bonus to the damage i do now. LA also is hard to tell if your in it when you have soulforged enchants on your gear. The TP it does seams to be off and moves me to the center of the mob. Not to mention the nerf they didn't tell you about in patch notes to its duration.
I get the nerf to cloud of steel , we are strikers not ranged dps.
Just seams our only class advantage was stealth and single target dps, and they pretty much took that away from us. Most of our feats are centered around stealth but now its mostly useless along with so many of our other skills. They have killed our only 2 useful dailies and replaced it with nothing. The set bonus from the new gear looks to give us a poison dot, how about replace stealth with poison? But would that make us more of an assassin class than rogue? Did they even play D&D? How do The Wizards of The Coast even sign off on this?
Boss encounter still seam to be more adds than mechanics; should really change the name of this game to,"The Floor is Lava."
If this castration of the rogue class was for PVP, we were not even the top of the charts. GWF rule PVP now and seams like the will for the foreseeable future. As for PVE why bring a rogue when you can have another CW?
So if this goes live as is, will you be offering us the ability to unbind our companion stones from a now useless class? You really should just save everyone the belly aching of trying to deal with it, and do what you seam to want to do and delete the TR.
Lastly why BOP on seal gear? Some one else all ready hit on this but by the time i have enough drake seals for anything I no longer need the gear. Since I only have access to my classes gear i can not gear out my companions. So I spend tons of seals to get a companion I dont need, and sell items that take awhile to get for 1.5 gold? WTF?
If this patch really kill TR class, im going to stop play.
Kill a class game, which should be the class "stealth" because a handful of whiners come here really complain ....really
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firesoul31Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 34
You know who this change will punish the most? The normal, non-permastealthing rogues who like PVE. Permastealthing rogues are a small minority and, if someone got oneshotted by any class in PVP, the opponent was very likely far better geared than them and that person wasn't really paying attention.
Here's an idea: What if instead of constantly nerfing rogues (and whoever is next), you gave other classes some boosts where needed? And/or decreased the amount of HP and defense that endgame mobs have?
It's sad you Cryptic staff don't learn from the mistakes of others mmo who done the same, nerfing classes in the end loosing plenty of players that decided to stop playing. Instead of nerf 1 class, take example of Blizz that raised the "powers" of other classes making them more balanced and subtle nerfing the others by not changing anything. They know that if they lower a class utility, people will be mad and the company ll loose money. Good luck with this patch, but I ll tell you, you have nothing to gain after you ll implement.
You can see the potential for fail written in these two posts.
I play PvE, and only rarely PvP, but in no game I have ever played should PvP affect PvE. TR will have a serious issue w/o help in PvE now. I know that for all purposed the test changes will go live, I don't believe I have ever seen test changes not implemented on the live server.
Many have said, rightly so, that TR might have needed some changes but as many others have pointed out the changes are too drastic and game changing.
In too many games I've seen companies only nerf a class(es) and not support/buff other classes. In every single instance the company was forced to put the changes at least partway back to the original stats/quality. I see this happening here.
I like the game and spent the $200 on the Hero pack, I was considering the new pack and maybe even another pack but I just don't know now. I think Cryptic could learn to post more from their dev's point of view/opionions and be more open to engagement from the community.
Look at what Square Enix has done with FFXIV. They basically scrapped an entire game for 18 months, listened to their base and now will be putting out a new version very soon. Players voted with their pocketbooks and SE listened. Cryptic has every right to make money but if it doesn't learn that alienating it's players, thus its financial support, it will have to close the game and maybe much sooner than any planned shutdown might have been forecasted.
Btw, any amount of name calling or verbal bashing will just feed the emotions of the others. Try to be reasonable and at least look at their point of view. Be excellent to each other and Party on dude!
Playing, paying & Coding - My take on Neverwinter, mods be darned
Opened up comments, because I would love to hear what everyone says, even the naysayers. http://goo.gl/TiX1kO
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
There are a ton o' patch notes to read in the meantime. Just be warned that a couple slipped through the cracks; you can assume that any new patch notes you see on the live Neverwinter shard in the next couple weeks are also on the NeverwinterPreview shard (but of course, not the other way around). I'll try to get this updated
I Love the fact that not even the Dev responsible for relaying the changes in the game is incapable of relaying all the changes (probably not his fault)... kinda shows how little communication is going between the Dev team
I agree with the CoS charge reduction, but a -33% decrease is too much. 10 would be more balanced IMO.
its more than 33%, because each blade in succession deals more and more damage, by removing 4 blades, you have effectively removed the same amount of damage that blades 1-8 deals (especially if you have the feet to increases that damage increase of each blade)
its more than 33%, because each blade in succession deals more and more damage, by removing 4 blades, you have effectively removed the same amount of damage that blades 1-8 deals (especially if you have the feet to increases that damage increase of each blade)
I didn't even think of that, but my percentage was actually based on the charge reduction. Not damage output.
I have both a TR and GWF pretty well geared, but I'm also considering quitting altogether. It's a combination of things that ranges from poor development/support to boredom of the game itself. I think the game was pretty fun at the beginning, but like most games it just gets frustrating after a while of playing in endgame.
I play each class equally, and these changes might just be the nail in the coffin for me. No offense, but
It's kind of foreshadowing how this company will ultimately bury itself.
I have always though TR class was way OP.. I have played alot of mmorpg's and I can't remember another game where the highest single DPS class gets the best movement/dodge abilities combined with best stealth abilities.. That's insane.. I totally agree they need to be nerfed.. This much idk.. But they are designed way too OP.
What? TRs have the best movement/dodge??? I actually think their "Roll" is the stupidest thing I have ever seen on a rogue class. You roll and then STOP for a split second. You don't roll very far and you can't move unless you roll again. It is just for a brief second, but it is there. If you roll into red on your first roll and then do the same thing on the second roll you are dead because you just can't start to run instantly.
I love the GF sprint ability. I can sprint out of the red and sprint right back in with stamina left to spare. That is the best dodge in the game (for melee). If I don't want to sprint back into danger I can keep on running. I can use it in spurts or all at once. It is my choice. The TR rolls twice and then has to wait for stamina to roll again and the rolls don't even come close to the distance a GWF can sprint.
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xhritMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
What? TRs have the best movement/dodge??? I actually think their "Roll" is the stupidest thing I have ever seen on a rogue class. You roll and then STOP for a split second. You don't roll very far and you can't move unless you roll again. It is just for a brief second, but it is there. If you roll into red on your first roll and then do the same thing on the second roll you are dead because you just can't start to run instantly.
I love the GF sprint ability. I can sprint out of the red and sprint right back in with stamina left to spare. That is the best dodge in the game (for melee). If I don't want to sprint back into danger I can keep on running. I can use it in spurts or all at once. It is my choice. The TR rolls twice and then has to wait for stamina to roll again and the rolls don't even come close to the distance a GWF can sprint.
Lol have u even tried the GWF sprint? It's awful worst thing on this class by far. Firstly u have to hold the shift button down for the duration.. Secondly it takes significant time to actually dodge an aoe.. And quite often u don't even have enough time to get out of the aoe..
At Draco when he does the large aoe attack around him... If I am dps at that point.. I can't even get out of tr aoe.. It's impossible.. Sprint fully charged and instant reflexes you still get caught in it..
The tr dodge skill to amazing in comparison to the GWF.. It's not even comparable..
I have a tr as well
seal & pvp items BOP - WTF? it must be joke... another way to get some AD is blocked
TR nerf - i will NOT comment this...
beter work on TR dodge roll - its @#$$% frustrating half second freez after roll
start work on boss encounter attack areas - ive died many times few steps outside red area
and who the @#$% need another crapy mount or useless companion ... omg Cryptic start to think plz ... or mby you have hope that rich kids will buy Zens for $$$ ??
balthezar2Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 151Arc User
edited July 2013
We all know the TR nerf is HAMSTER, but what about that daily change? How the **** are we supposed to get AD for all the stuff needed if we can't do the dailies? Invoking? what a joke. I for one don't have time to do 4 foundries, PvP's, dungeons, skirmishes and the GG dailies all in one day, and explore Feywild and other areas. Without that anything that costs AD is way out of reach. 1) I can't afford a ton of zen to get any, and 2) if I did I'm not about to spend it now, with all this HAMSTER going on.
You had a great game here, why ruin now by making all these unnecessary changes?
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s32ialxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
OK So i was on Mimic... so your telling me you have the "Sun Elf Noble" outfit at the bar trader but I can't have my "Moonsilver Regalia Fashion" from the rewards nor my mount??? what the hell?
I get it I can't get my AD till it's live... but I was pretty sure your posts said I would be able to test out my Moon Elf and have my other items available in the preview...
Just sayian...
Can I access my items early, on NeverwinterPreview?
Yes! The content will be made available on Preview early, though note that the Character Slots, Astral Diamonds, and Adventurer's Packs will not be available until the Fury of the Feywild expansion is released.
I got No Companion... No Mount. No Outfit.. No Title... I'm just your average Joe testing the Preview right now... I mean I should have gotten the title the instant I bought in on Live... Since it is just a title... I should be able to boast up to the arrival time Yeah I bought the pack and supported the game... just like founders did. but fine whatever I don't get to boast on live... but really I can't even test my new race or test out my new mount/companion either... nor check out my fancy new outfit... whilst the Sun Elf's the said "free Race" get an outfit available right away... and it's called NOBLE? what the hell... I get that sun elves are the rare race in DnD... but really. if your going to give sun elves there own outfit shouldn't they have been the race sold in the pack... and given there Noble outfit to go with it... and then you sell the Moonsilver Regalia Fashion at the trades bar... Cryptic and PW your doing it backwards.
Also... there is a big bug in the zone where you start doing dailies for the feywild... where you literally fall threw the floor in MANY MANY different spots to your death right around all the quest npc's. not cool
just not cool.
anyways other wise decent job with the patch/fixes.... finally rogues get a debuff in PVP stupid that it alters there PVE they are already a useless class anyways being that we don't NEED them to disable traps like in Dungeons and Dragons Online... you MUST have a rogue in your party or the traps will kill you. but in this game it's like eh who cares about rogues and traps lets make that useless OH and now lets make them so they can't do anything useful in a dungeon at all now... since they were pretty much the only thing that could tank a boss as there are WAY to many adds in boss fights esp the final boss fights... way to many and there hitpoints are ridiculous... and I thought you guys made the dungeons "slightly" easier I did Spider's after that patch wtf it's totally not easier you added mob's and made it way harder... I never got 1 hit as a DC on a none boss before, until now.. I get 1 hit left right and center in spiders... I haven't been in any other dungeon but really... I wasn't healing I wasn't attacking just running passed and bam 1 hit dead out of nowhere.
If they do the nerfs and they dont stop them the last moment then nobody will be playing rogue anymore... Only the stupid ones.. and clearly the people that dont want to spend money or lot of time again for a new character will leave the game....When they unsterstand how stupid they are that doing these nerfs it will be late.
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rathma86Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 80
No parties will invite a GWF for that dungeon, because (1) CW Singularity, shield, repel and entangle is all that you need in that dungeon for the mobs (2) TR do much more dmg in ST than GWF.
Since they dont put a cap in the number of targets singularity and shield can affect, the only other way to make GWF viable there is having almost the same amount of single target dmg than TR, because the boss itself is easy.
there are bosses that it is really hard to 1v1 with a GWF, but it is way easier with TR with his abilities to avoid dmg, so there is no need for GWF less single target dmg than a TR.
TR can go through places in dungeon ignoring mobs so you can reach to the boss room way faster... TR has too much utility for it to have that amount of dmg
there is also no reason to bring a GWF to CN
.... you're kidding, right? we run a GWF in spell / CN ALL the time O_o
I'm sorry if this has been posted already but I don't have the time to read 26 pages of post. I did read many of them though. Also sorry for how long it is.
My thoughts on the changes that are coming. Lets start off with companions....
1. To upgrade your companions here is the cost. The dollar values are from using a Zen sale price of 330 AD/1 Zen. It could be higher or lower. Right now it is higher and when there are no special Zen store events going on it is usually lower.
To upgrade companion
White to Green = 300,000 AD = 910 Zen = Around $10
Green to Blue = 500,000 AD = 1515 Zen = Around $15
Blue to Purple = 750,000 AD = 2273 Zen = Around $25
To go from White to Purple will cost 1,550,000 Million AD = 4697 Zen = Around $50
Shame on you PWE! That is disgusting. You are going to charge us MORE to upgrade a companion than it cost to buy a purple companion from the Zen store. The total cost from white to blue should be $30 or less (even this is too much, but it is the cost of Epic companions from the Zen store). Thankfully we only have to upgrade our stone because all the rest are HAMSTER. Unfortunately it is going to cost us more to upgrade it than it would cost if it was already an epic companion. Very sad and it shows what type of company we are dealing with. I really did want to upgrade my cleric to Epic, but it is definitely not worth it. Everything decent in the new area is BOP so there won't be much to sell which will force the new player to sell Zen to cover the upgrade cost.
2. New content
Eh. Not really what I think most players were expecting. This is NOT a new place to go and do things for hours. This is a daily quest area. You go in, get your quests, complete them, and then you are done. It doesn't shut down like Gaunt, so you could hang out and grind if you want, but that is about it. The idea in the new area is to control your progression. You can not get new quests until the next day AND you have Campaign Tracker tasks (sort of like professional tasks) that take 20 hours to complete. You can not move forward until the task has been completed X amount of times. The first one has to be done up to 3 times (it may take less, I'm not sure yet).
Everything, as I stated above, is BOP. That means the Blue CW hat I received in my first solo dungeon run is pretty useless to the rogue I was playing so I have to vendor it. LOL. I am sure this is just an oversight and the gear will be class specific. Lets hope so anyway because you can only do it once (per day I think).
Final conclusion. It is something to kill about 2 hours a day. After that it is back to the normal game we have been playing.
3. New professions. Artificing (caster weapons) and Weaponsmithing (melee weapons). Same old thing. Nice if you level it for your new toons, but hard to use it while leveling a new character. It does create a opportunity to sell weapons on the AH, but, once again, the price of crafting something will cost more than the tons of dungeon drops already on the AH for super low prices making it hard to sell what you create (I am not sure if all dungeons are switching to BOP. Have to check that one quick and update later).
4. Last, but certainly not least, the changes to the rogue. WTH??? Lurker is now useless unless you use it for burst damage. After a lot of testing it seems to just give me the higher end damage of a crit and that is ONLY IF YOU CRIT. Basically that means you pretty much want to use lurker with Lashing Blade from stealth (Ohhh I can hear the cries from PVP already). You get a guaranteed crit and it "Seems" to guaranteed it will be at the high end of your ability or just a bit above. I do believe it is stacking with vorpal to always hit the high end. I normally crit between 14.5 and 20k or so and with lurker's I pretty much always hit 20k and there was one for 26k (all the stars aligned and I hit it at the perfect moment). I do not have tons of crit on my rogue so someone with a lot may want to pop lurker's with Dualist's Flurry instead.
They got what they wanted. Perma-stealth is dead. I do not think there is any possible way to stay in stealth very long at all. I am not perma-stealth and I could only get 17 seconds using stealth, then popping Lurker when stealth meter was almost empty, and then letting stealth just run out (3 stealth meters basically). This was without attacking anything. If I attack at all stealth last about 8 seconds with lurker's. Of course, the rogue is totally broken now because the tab ability is pretty much useless. Your stealth drops at a amazingly fast rate with or without Lurker.
I am hoping they just messed up lurker's assault and it may get fixed so it regenerates stealth like it should or maybe you will not lose stealth while attacking when lurker's is on. Lets at least hope this is the case. It only last for 8 seconds. It should at least be 8 seconds of uninterrupted stealth. If not, then our only daily really is broken and will only be useful to get a massive crit. Unfortunately it takes so long to rebuild our AP that it really won't be useful anymore.
Two more things. Give me back my 4 daggers. Make THROWING them take a bit longer so I can't spam all 12 in 3 seconds. Keep the damage scaling we had and just slow the animation down some. And....... if you are going to cut our DPS like this and take away our last useful daily at least buff our armor and HP so we can survive longer than 5 seconds out of stealth.
After further testing it appears that dungeon drops that are currently BOE stayed BOE. I just did a fast run through one of the lower lvl dungeons to check so this may not apply to everything. Also it wasn't DD time so I have no idea about the chest items.
New content is also going to cost us AD to advance in many of the Campaign Tracker tasks. The cost range from 10K to 50K. It will cost 110k total to get the 5 buffs and some of the keys are 50k. I do not see anything so far that INCREASES AD generation. Looks like another way to suck money from us.
Trickster Rogue
Cloud of Steel: This power now has 8 maximum charges, down from 12.
Duelist's Flurry: When the bleed portion of this power is at 10 stacks, further applications now recalculate damage in addition to refreshing the duration.
Feat: Speed Swindle: This feat is now properly considered a Control effect for calculations and procs.
Lurker's Assault: This power now grants 5 / 10 / 15% bonus Crit Severity, instead of 20 / 40 / 60% bonus damage.
Stealth: At-will powers used from stealth will now partially deplete the Stealth Meter.
Holy HAMSTER.
Ha ha ha ha! Wow.
So glad I switched to GWF. Clearly rogues are going to keep getting nerfed every update. I look forward to next update where you give them fluffy bunnies instead of daggers.
Seriously though, people should just switch to GWF. We don't get nerfed and are insanely strong. With the right equipment and feats, we are unkillable. Try it out.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
So glad I switched to GWF. -- Seriously though, people should just switch to GWF. We don't get nerfed and are insanely strong. With the right equipment and feats, we are unkillable. Try it out.
The right attitude!
Wait... you'll switch to GF when GWF gets nerfed? Wait, you don't want to actually play this game, just faceroll it?
Regards, a TR.
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balthezar2Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 151Arc User
edited July 2013
The TR fits my style of play, a GWF doesn't, so why would I want to switch and not play the game the way I enjoy it? If we get this much nerf I'll just stop playing...period
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werealchemistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The TR fits my style of play, a GWF doesn't, so why would I want to switch and not play the game the way I enjoy it? If we get this much nerf I'll just stop playing...period
It was GWF that needed a nerf in PVP, not TR. People (CW's) just whine about TR because they don't want to think about how to beat one when it really isn't that hard. A GF can kill a TR in 3 moves. Sure, lurker's hurts, but a rogue has to build ap to use it and that takes time.
The changes here are going to affect PVE to the point where nobody is going to want to continue to farm the same 5 T2 dungeons anymore. The only point of TR in PVE is to help clear trash and bosses faster. You are killing your own game.
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This will also hurt PvE, TR's will be unable to be able to fight bosses due to the lack of stealth. They nerfed a class so much that I'm sure people will kick a TR no matter how good they are in both PvE and PvP. You guys are basically killing a class off, forcing all the TR's to either quit or make a new class and start over. That's how useless TR's will be. It would be much better if there was a slight nerf on stealth, but really? Even at-will attacks lower stealth, you have to be kidding me.
I THOUGHT this was a decent company, but apparently they just "balance" classes by listening to noobs that don't know how to fight, I'm questioning if they even played this game. But it doesn't stop their, seals are now useless too. Great
WHAT THE F**K?? Do you devs even play the same game we do? Or when you play do you just give yourselves the gear you want with commands?
I have full swashbuckling and skulkers gear; plus a stone, ran with both. I am str/executioner.
After running a few group instances I find myself trying to keep just above the DC in DPS when I used to top the charts. I know all that should matter is if we were successful but wtf? When on bosses I can only use stealth to try to get off 1 encounter or a few vollyes of cloud of steel; 6-7, can not even get 3 hits off of duelist flurry; the third strike alone will eat a full stealth bar. So stealth is only useful for a buff to damage on a one time major hit or a few minor ones.
Lurkers assault barley gives any bonus to the damage i do now. LA also is hard to tell if your in it when you have soulforged enchants on your gear. The TP it does seams to be off and moves me to the center of the mob. Not to mention the nerf they didn't tell you about in patch notes to its duration.
I get the nerf to cloud of steel , we are strikers not ranged dps.
Just seams our only class advantage was stealth and single target dps, and they pretty much took that away from us. Most of our feats are centered around stealth but now its mostly useless along with so many of our other skills. They have killed our only 2 useful dailies and replaced it with nothing. The set bonus from the new gear looks to give us a poison dot, how about replace stealth with poison? But would that make us more of an assassin class than rogue? Did they even play D&D? How do The Wizards of The Coast even sign off on this?
Boss encounter still seam to be more adds than mechanics; should really change the name of this game to,"The Floor is Lava."
If this castration of the rogue class was for PVP, we were not even the top of the charts. GWF rule PVP now and seams like the will for the foreseeable future. As for PVE why bring a rogue when you can have another CW?
So if this goes live as is, will you be offering us the ability to unbind our companion stones from a now useless class? You really should just save everyone the belly aching of trying to deal with it, and do what you seam to want to do and delete the TR.
Lastly why BOP on seal gear? Some one else all ready hit on this but by the time i have enough drake seals for anything I no longer need the gear. Since I only have access to my classes gear i can not gear out my companions. So I spend tons of seals to get a companion I dont need, and sell items that take awhile to get for 1.5 gold? WTF?
This guy gets it.
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As for killing perma-stealth rogues, I find it pretty simple as a non-perma stealth rogue. I move around in stealth until I see them nearby. I attack them and they lose the rest of their meter.
Even though I think the "nerfs" are excessive, I'm pretty sure I'll still top the K:D ratios every game. I don't rely on LA, it was just the icing on the cake. Gfs and GWFs are going to be a lot harder to kill now though.
I suggest making LA do +40-50% crit severity. The damage will still be less than the original +60% base damage increase and you won't be losing as much of your TR customer base.
I agree with the CoS charge reduction, but a -33% decrease is too much. 10 would be more balanced IMO.
The decrease of stealth meter when using at wills kind of defeats the purpose of a TR and will wreck and stealth feats we have (which are a lot). I mean, if you do this you might as well make all classes deplete their meter if they attack and it's active...
If this patch really kill TR class, im going to stop play.
Kill a class game, which should be the class "stealth" because a handful of whiners come here really complain ....really
You can see the potential for fail written in these two posts.
I play PvE, and only rarely PvP, but in no game I have ever played should PvP affect PvE. TR will have a serious issue w/o help in PvE now. I know that for all purposed the test changes will go live, I don't believe I have ever seen test changes not implemented on the live server.
Many have said, rightly so, that TR might have needed some changes but as many others have pointed out the changes are too drastic and game changing.
In too many games I've seen companies only nerf a class(es) and not support/buff other classes. In every single instance the company was forced to put the changes at least partway back to the original stats/quality. I see this happening here.
I like the game and spent the $200 on the Hero pack, I was considering the new pack and maybe even another pack but I just don't know now. I think Cryptic could learn to post more from their dev's point of view/opionions and be more open to engagement from the community.
Look at what Square Enix has done with FFXIV. They basically scrapped an entire game for 18 months, listened to their base and now will be putting out a new version very soon. Players voted with their pocketbooks and SE listened. Cryptic has every right to make money but if it doesn't learn that alienating it's players, thus its financial support, it will have to close the game and maybe much sooner than any planned shutdown might have been forecasted.
Btw, any amount of name calling or verbal bashing will just feed the emotions of the others. Try to be reasonable and at least look at their point of view. Be excellent to each other and Party on dude!
Opened up comments, because I would love to hear what everyone says, even the naysayers.
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Simply put, the class is dead gentlemen.
I Love the fact that not even the Dev responsible for relaying the changes in the game is incapable of relaying all the changes (probably not his fault)... kinda shows how little communication is going between the Dev team
its more than 33%, because each blade in succession deals more and more damage, by removing 4 blades, you have effectively removed the same amount of damage that blades 1-8 deals (especially if you have the feet to increases that damage increase of each blade)
I didn't even think of that, but my percentage was actually based on the charge reduction. Not damage output.
I have both a TR and GWF pretty well geared, but I'm also considering quitting altogether. It's a combination of things that ranges from poor development/support to boredom of the game itself. I think the game was pretty fun at the beginning, but like most games it just gets frustrating after a while of playing in endgame.
I play each class equally, and these changes might just be the nail in the coffin for me. No offense, but
It's kind of foreshadowing how this company will ultimately bury itself.
so PISSED!
What? TRs have the best movement/dodge??? I actually think their "Roll" is the stupidest thing I have ever seen on a rogue class. You roll and then STOP for a split second. You don't roll very far and you can't move unless you roll again. It is just for a brief second, but it is there. If you roll into red on your first roll and then do the same thing on the second roll you are dead because you just can't start to run instantly.
I love the GF sprint ability. I can sprint out of the red and sprint right back in with stamina left to spare. That is the best dodge in the game (for melee). If I don't want to sprint back into danger I can keep on running. I can use it in spurts or all at once. It is my choice. The TR rolls twice and then has to wait for stamina to roll again and the rolls don't even come close to the distance a GWF can sprint.
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Lol have u even tried the GWF sprint? It's awful worst thing on this class by far. Firstly u have to hold the shift button down for the duration.. Secondly it takes significant time to actually dodge an aoe.. And quite often u don't even have enough time to get out of the aoe..
At Draco when he does the large aoe attack around him... If I am dps at that point.. I can't even get out of tr aoe.. It's impossible.. Sprint fully charged and instant reflexes you still get caught in it..
The tr dodge skill to amazing in comparison to the GWF.. It's not even comparable..
I have a tr as well
TR nerf - i will NOT comment this...
beter work on TR dodge roll - its @#$$% frustrating half second freez after roll
start work on boss encounter attack areas - ive died many times few steps outside red area
and who the @#$% need another crapy mount or useless companion ... omg Cryptic start to think plz ... or mby you have hope that rich kids will buy Zens for $$$ ??
respec will not help...
You had a great game here, why ruin now by making all these unnecessary changes?
I get it I can't get my AD till it's live... but I was pretty sure your posts said I would be able to test out my Moon Elf and have my other items available in the preview...
Just sayian...
I got No Companion... No Mount. No Outfit.. No Title... I'm just your average Joe testing the Preview right now... I mean I should have gotten the title the instant I bought in on Live... Since it is just a title... I should be able to boast up to the arrival time Yeah I bought the pack and supported the game... just like founders did. but fine whatever I don't get to boast on live... but really I can't even test my new race or test out my new mount/companion either... nor check out my fancy new outfit... whilst the Sun Elf's the said "free Race" get an outfit available right away... and it's called NOBLE? what the hell... I get that sun elves are the rare race in DnD... but really. if your going to give sun elves there own outfit shouldn't they have been the race sold in the pack... and given there Noble outfit to go with it... and then you sell the Moonsilver Regalia Fashion at the trades bar... Cryptic and PW your doing it backwards.
Also... there is a big bug in the zone where you start doing dailies for the feywild... where you literally fall threw the floor in MANY MANY different spots to your death right around all the quest npc's. not cool
just not cool.
anyways other wise decent job with the patch/fixes.... finally rogues get a debuff in PVP stupid that it alters there PVE they are already a useless class anyways being that we don't NEED them to disable traps like in Dungeons and Dragons Online... you MUST have a rogue in your party or the traps will kill you. but in this game it's like eh who cares about rogues and traps lets make that useless OH and now lets make them so they can't do anything useful in a dungeon at all now... since they were pretty much the only thing that could tank a boss as there are WAY to many adds in boss fights esp the final boss fights... way to many and there hitpoints are ridiculous... and I thought you guys made the dungeons "slightly" easier I did Spider's after that patch wtf it's totally not easier you added mob's and made it way harder... I never got 1 hit as a DC on a none boss before, until now.. I get 1 hit left right and center in spiders... I haven't been in any other dungeon but really... I wasn't healing I wasn't attacking just running passed and bam 1 hit dead out of nowhere.
.... you're kidding, right? we run a GWF in spell / CN ALL the time O_o
My thoughts on the changes that are coming. Lets start off with companions....
1. To upgrade your companions here is the cost. The dollar values are from using a Zen sale price of 330 AD/1 Zen. It could be higher or lower. Right now it is higher and when there are no special Zen store events going on it is usually lower.
To upgrade companion
White to Green = 300,000 AD = 910 Zen = Around $10
Green to Blue = 500,000 AD = 1515 Zen = Around $15
Blue to Purple = 750,000 AD = 2273 Zen = Around $25
To go from White to Purple will cost 1,550,000 Million AD = 4697 Zen = Around $50
Shame on you PWE! That is disgusting. You are going to charge us MORE to upgrade a companion than it cost to buy a purple companion from the Zen store. The total cost from white to blue should be $30 or less (even this is too much, but it is the cost of Epic companions from the Zen store). Thankfully we only have to upgrade our stone because all the rest are HAMSTER. Unfortunately it is going to cost us more to upgrade it than it would cost if it was already an epic companion. Very sad and it shows what type of company we are dealing with. I really did want to upgrade my cleric to Epic, but it is definitely not worth it. Everything decent in the new area is BOP so there won't be much to sell which will force the new player to sell Zen to cover the upgrade cost.
2. New content
Eh. Not really what I think most players were expecting. This is NOT a new place to go and do things for hours. This is a daily quest area. You go in, get your quests, complete them, and then you are done. It doesn't shut down like Gaunt, so you could hang out and grind if you want, but that is about it. The idea in the new area is to control your progression. You can not get new quests until the next day AND you have Campaign Tracker tasks (sort of like professional tasks) that take 20 hours to complete. You can not move forward until the task has been completed X amount of times. The first one has to be done up to 3 times (it may take less, I'm not sure yet).
Everything, as I stated above, is BOP. That means the Blue CW hat I received in my first solo dungeon run is pretty useless to the rogue I was playing so I have to vendor it. LOL. I am sure this is just an oversight and the gear will be class specific. Lets hope so anyway because you can only do it once (per day I think).
Final conclusion. It is something to kill about 2 hours a day. After that it is back to the normal game we have been playing.
3. New professions. Artificing (caster weapons) and Weaponsmithing (melee weapons). Same old thing. Nice if you level it for your new toons, but hard to use it while leveling a new character. It does create a opportunity to sell weapons on the AH, but, once again, the price of crafting something will cost more than the tons of dungeon drops already on the AH for super low prices making it hard to sell what you create (I am not sure if all dungeons are switching to BOP. Have to check that one quick and update later).
4. Last, but certainly not least, the changes to the rogue. WTH??? Lurker is now useless unless you use it for burst damage. After a lot of testing it seems to just give me the higher end damage of a crit and that is ONLY IF YOU CRIT. Basically that means you pretty much want to use lurker with Lashing Blade from stealth (Ohhh I can hear the cries from PVP already). You get a guaranteed crit and it "Seems" to guaranteed it will be at the high end of your ability or just a bit above. I do believe it is stacking with vorpal to always hit the high end. I normally crit between 14.5 and 20k or so and with lurker's I pretty much always hit 20k and there was one for 26k (all the stars aligned and I hit it at the perfect moment). I do not have tons of crit on my rogue so someone with a lot may want to pop lurker's with Dualist's Flurry instead.
They got what they wanted. Perma-stealth is dead. I do not think there is any possible way to stay in stealth very long at all. I am not perma-stealth and I could only get 17 seconds using stealth, then popping Lurker when stealth meter was almost empty, and then letting stealth just run out (3 stealth meters basically). This was without attacking anything. If I attack at all stealth last about 8 seconds with lurker's. Of course, the rogue is totally broken now because the tab ability is pretty much useless. Your stealth drops at a amazingly fast rate with or without Lurker.
I am hoping they just messed up lurker's assault and it may get fixed so it regenerates stealth like it should or maybe you will not lose stealth while attacking when lurker's is on. Lets at least hope this is the case. It only last for 8 seconds. It should at least be 8 seconds of uninterrupted stealth. If not, then our only daily really is broken and will only be useful to get a massive crit. Unfortunately it takes so long to rebuild our AP that it really won't be useful anymore.
Two more things. Give me back my 4 daggers. Make THROWING them take a bit longer so I can't spam all 12 in 3 seconds. Keep the damage scaling we had and just slow the animation down some. And....... if you are going to cut our DPS like this and take away our last useful daily at least buff our armor and HP so we can survive longer than 5 seconds out of stealth.
After further testing it appears that dungeon drops that are currently BOE stayed BOE. I just did a fast run through one of the lower lvl dungeons to check so this may not apply to everything. Also it wasn't DD time so I have no idea about the chest items.
New content is also going to cost us AD to advance in many of the Campaign Tracker tasks. The cost range from 10K to 50K. It will cost 110k total to get the 5 buffs and some of the keys are 50k. I do not see anything so far that INCREASES AD generation. Looks like another way to suck money from us.
Holy HAMSTER.
Ha ha ha ha! Wow.
So glad I switched to GWF. Clearly rogues are going to keep getting nerfed every update. I look forward to next update where you give them fluffy bunnies instead of daggers.
Seriously though, people should just switch to GWF. We don't get nerfed and are insanely strong. With the right equipment and feats, we are unkillable. Try it out.
The right attitude!
Wait... you'll switch to GF when GWF gets nerfed? Wait, you don't want to actually play this game, just faceroll it?
Regards, a TR.
+1
nuff said
The changes here are going to affect PVE to the point where nobody is going to want to continue to farm the same 5 T2 dungeons anymore. The only point of TR in PVE is to help clear trash and bosses faster. You are killing your own game.