If that's truly the main reason behind not restarting the tournament, playing a "broken" spec, then that's laughable. A true minority of players refusing to give everyone a fresh start (GF exploit) is the epitome of selfishness.
Edit: I'd like to hear what the Tournament judges have to say on this matter before I make any decisions on my participation, but I'll put it out there right now - if there isn't an objective reason to continue this wreck and God2.0's reason stands, then it's a clear bias towards certain teams. I had my reservations about participating in this tournament from the beginning and I see those reservations have been validated.
0
bozxxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 25Arc User
edited August 2013
ask the judges then if you feel that strongly there info on front page
[Tell] From [Click]: I know I'm the best but I don't go around saying that
[Tell] From [Click]: I hate how you think you're amazing at this game and think everyone else sucks
I have spoken with alot of the teams. And hardly any of them have expressed any concern besides Army of Darkness over this "roster" issue. The fact of the matter is, we want to keep this tournament on schedule, we want to crown a winner, and most of us are already looking forward to many more tournaments.
There has been no real issues with any of the matches that would of effected any of the outcomes. Roster rules of course are going to have to be tightened up more for next tournament, however most likely the rules themselves should be loosen'ed. Even with the time that was given, it is extremely hard to get together firm rosters with all the time zones and people in play. Some of these teams have people in one team from all over the world. I for one would MUCH rather see looser rules, and more matches played, and no disqualifications, then the alternative.
This is all about having fun, and the majority of people right now are having fun. I have atleast 10 tells today saying keep going, this tournament has given us reason to keep playing (this is from people outside of the guild).
It is unfortunate that some of these issues have given a sour note to things, mainly on the forums, however like I have stated earlier, we ALL will learn from these mistakes. The tournament is not going to be restarted.
(bozxx (god), is only expressing his opinion.), and not that of myself or judges. Having this tournament complete before the patch does play a factor however. Its not about playing during a broken spec. Its about playing the tournament the whole way through with the SAME set of class/feat/power/build setups. Like I said, we want this rule set to be wrapped up, then start another tournament, not have one tournament spread over 2 different rule sets.
Its about playing the tournament the whole way through with the SAME set of rules.
Seeing as how the rules have already changed you just invalidated your reason. If you really cared about playing this tournament with the same set of rules, then the only option would be to restart it.
Seeing as how the rules have already changed you just invalidated your reason. If you really cared about playing this tournament with the same set of rules, then the only option would be to restart it.
How have the rules been changed? All that was done, was the definition of obvious bugged feat was more explicitly now stated. Which there was only ever one case of it happening, in multiple matches now.
Aside from letting people participate, even if under-geared compared to the person(s) they replaced, that are not on the official team roster:
I have not received ANY complaints of those 2 new rules from anyone participating in the tournament. They are both obvious bugged feats/pwers, and nothing like come patch time with complete REWORKS of ability trees. If there is any problems with those 2 rules, please let judges no in game, since the 3 judges were the ones to add those rules in.
hopoffMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited August 2013
LOL wow I been reading and havn't cared enough untill now to post but you guys are just to much. I'm TankMode and if anyone should be mad should be me but I'm not even mad. We waited for days on confirmation from Essence on a time and date for our match. We didn't get word untill afew hours before the match so unfortunately me and tallgeese the 2 gwf's wasn't able to make it. Our party accepted the match to help speed along the bracket instead of not being able to fight. In addition we even took a weaker gwf that was pve dmg spec. If anything that hurt us more then it helped us. To make it even BETTER for Army I was replaced on the roster by Yucca now so I can't play in the tourny which now took Army of Dankess's chances from 0% to 1% of winning. So I dont understand where the QQ is coming from. If anything you should be HAPPY that I'm not able to participate in the tourny not crying because we had to change our roster which was still BEFORE the match so no rules according to my understanding was broken. They would have only been broken IF I remained on the roster and we had 3 gwf's. So get **** right and Army Of Dankess I'm not 1 to talk **** it's childish but real talk bro your guild couldn't beat our pver's LOL
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hopoffMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
I have not received ANY complaints of those 2 new rules from anyone participating in the tournament.
First, you're missing the point. I asked for a valid reason why the tournament should continue instead of restarting it. You directly addressed my question, which I quoted, but it seems like you have since edited your original post to remove that line.
Fortunately, I quoted you in post #190.
Your actions validate AoD's withdrawal.
0
bozxxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 25Arc User
edited August 2013
any other guild had an issue? anyone?
[Tell] From [Click]: I know I'm the best but I don't go around saying that
[Tell] From [Click]: I hate how you think you're amazing at this game and think everyone else sucks
A couple of things I want to address. The rulings today were made today the other two judges. (Only need two to agree to vito a third) ( And I cant really log into the game for long with my videocard in it's current condition, but I can read the forums, comment and watch the videos.) I support the rulings they made. Both teams agreed to sub a player. The player EOA subbed did not have a great concept of the pots rule and when asked to stop, he stopped. Isadorrr does not have the best history with Fistful and yet, he was very professional and respectful both before and after the game and while on vent to que up games. Both teams appeared to agree on the changes so that they could persist forward. --I don't like that either team failed to clear it with the judges first.-- It's annoying and it causes the problems we are seeing in this thread now. But the punishment for it is a pretty harsh one; The winner, Catholic Church now has a PVE spec (and geared) GWF , without a microphone locked into that slot of the tournament as opposed to tankmode who was specced for the sole purpose of PVP.
I like playing with Army of Darkness, in particular Blessings and Little Deej. I solo que a lot and I win and lose to both of them about 50-50. I'm upset you guys are withdrawing from the tournament and was excited to see you guys participate. I'm disappointed my guild is trolling too. Everyone should kick back and relax a little. Believe me when I've had to make rulings the last two days on rules and that it is impossible to make everyone happy. I try and be fair. I 100% Support the ruling of the other two judges on this call and I feel it's a good one. If the Army of Darkness team continued to play Catholic Church would be at a severe disadvantage.
I'm sorry this has left a bad taste in your mouth, and I can understand why it has. But i'm really not trying to stack anything in my guild's favor. One example I can give you, is that a guildie pointed out to me that one particular player could swap a bunch of soulforged enchants mid-game and this was awesome. My initial thought on it ws..sure, it's awesome but it also makes for a bad tournament, so it's going to be banned. That didn't sit so great with other guild members, but they moved forward.
It's not easy making rulings on a game with so many bugged mechanics, exploits and cheesey options. I read your complaint and I believe it's a valid one as well. But I will say this: The rules are not being made up as we go along for the mutual benefit of the guild.
They are being made as issues continue to spring up in a tournament for well.... buggy as duck game.
On a side note, our guild is not popular because of a lot of the smack talkers. But i've also seen some of our bigger critics, hunker down and participate, so kudos to them, even that one in particular who's trolled me on multiple occasions (You know who you are, now accept my friend invite.)
Also as far as the back and forth in this thread is concerned; just play the next match. Or set up a premade vs Premade, agree on the rules and see who the best is. going back and forth in the thread about who's better solves nothing. That awas kind of why the tournament was started; to give people an option to really test each other against the best. IMHO the best players signed up, so it's disappointing to see some of them drop.
Well just to update everyone, I believe we had a pretty good discussion with several members of Army of Darkness on vent. In my opinion it really went well. I believe there was alot of misunderstanding and mis-communication, which just got alot worse with everyone including myself's posts in this thread. Sometimes just talking through the problems, is so much better/easier then trying to resolve it in forum threads, and I welcome anyone else in the past several pages of the thread, to pop in and have an open discussion.
great games guys, was fun playing you guys! (well not so fun dancing with god around the flag literally the whole game :P)
thx for streaming and uploading the VoD, i enjoyed watching the gameplay, especially watching isidor running berserk oneshotting around.
gg guys, sticky
Yeah, those were great fights, and a lot of fun. I look forward to more premade's vs you guys and future tournaments. Your team had great sportsmanship.
I have said what I needed to say. The ventrilo invitation is open. If you were at all interested in actually playing the game and participating in future tournaments, you would stop the trolling, be the grown up, and come work things out. That is obviously so far not your chosen path, and I have no interest in participating in your massive attention grab/troll anymore.
Wow... I have to find out our team resigns from the forums... I have to say im a little disappointed. I appreciate the need to hold to the rules, but I also think that due to the circumstances and the fact the result didnt change AND now FFoZ has a bad 5th for the tourny... I dont honestly see why it matters, in my opinion.
I respect my GMs wishes to drop from the tourny but am sad to do so.
I sympathize with Shrugs here in that it would ideally be better to restart, but unfortunately the way these tournys get traction, well... it would be a bad thing to redo the first round imo...
The other issue with restarting the tourny is that think of what it will accomplish... The other matches have already happened as well so what if "Guild Breakers" wins this time? Wont that be seen as an unfair thing to happen since potporri won?
In the end, chances are FFoZ would have won, EOA didnt complain, they hadnt played a match yet, and the fact that it hurt them rather than help them doesnt really give me reason to question this... much... They didnt use bugged feats/skills...
My feedback for the NEXT tourny is this...
1) Have each participating team elect 1 judge, judges all then rule and majority wins.
2) Have a "buy in" for a prize pool... Its pretty easy for each guy to come up with 100k AD x 5 x 10 teams is an easy 5 mil for prizes... You can have other guilds donate more if needed, I think we all agree bragging rights is the main motivator here... AD is frosting.
3) Instead of single elim, make it a DOUBLE elim tourny...
4) Give each round a week to get matches straight, each team gets a roster of 10 people, can be ANY class however ATLEAST 4 different classes must be represented (can double up one class if you want) in the match. Players can change match to match in any round as long as they are on the final "approved" roster ahead of time.
These are the things I would have done if it were my tourny. I would love to host one, just aint rich enough to do so. I hope to see you all on the battlefield!!!
Wow... I have to find out our team resigns from the forums... I have to say im a little disappointed. I appreciate the need to hold to the rules, but I also think that due to the circumstances and the fact the result didnt change AND now FFoZ has a bad 5th for the tourny... I dont honestly see why it matters, in my opinion.
Your absolutely right. Not to mention your the first AoD to come on here talking with respect and civilized I appreciate that.
Same was looking forward to another competitive match. For fun we could setup a 5v5 game and see how it plays out.
Im down with this, I would love some competition... Everygame that we are a premade in, we stomp on players... Unless we have 1 pug who afk quits or once we had a guy with 5k GS who just hit 60, pretty much lost us the match...
Wow... I have to find out our team resigns from the forums... I have to say im a little disappointed. I appreciate the need to hold to the rules, but I also think that due to the circumstances and the fact the result didnt change AND now FFoZ has a bad 5th for the tourny... I dont honestly see why it matters, in my opinion.
Your absolutely right. Not to mention your the first AoD to come on here talking with respect and civilized I appreciate that.
Normally I try to steer clear from Forum drama. Hence why I made an effort last night to jump into FFOZ's vent with Gerfty in order to tone down the server wide drama.
As I stated to Xira and others in vent last night: I appreciate everything that has happened with organizing the event and understand the effort people have placed into making things run smoothly. If anything I think we can few this as a Trial run, take what has happened here, proceed with the remaining matches and learn from our mistakes, in order continue these events in the future it would be extremely advantageous to take what has happened here and attempt to prevent it from happening again.
Too often with events organized by players, people jump up and go back to school yard antics. This isn't Primary school, yet often than not, we are all guilty of adding fuel to the fire. Constantly arguing back and forth over what is realisitically a tiny issue is not doing anyone any favours. All it is doing, is pointing fingers at everyone else, whilst allowing the other servers the chance to point and laugh at us, as a whole.
I am all for server wide events, all for competitive pvp, all for forming a closer knit community. With but a few exeptions all I can see in this thread for the last 14 pages is a bucketload of text that has achieved nothing but waste everyones time.
So lets cut the ****. Move on, you guys finish this tournmament and then as a group of like minded people interested in competitive organized pvp we move forwards and look at finding a way to minimize the possibility of drama induced trolling happening in future events.
At the end of the day: Kudos to FFOZ for organizing and providing the initial excitment for the tournament. I have enjoyed watching all the games so far, and look forward to the semis and Final. Best of luck to the remaining teams.
Desidus
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Normally I try to steer clear from Forum drama. Hence why I made an effort last night to jump into FFOZ's vent with Gerfty in order to tone down the server wide drama.
As I stated to Xira and others in vent last night: I appreciate everything that has happened with organizing the event and understand the effort people have placed into making things run smoothly. If anything I think we can few this as a Trial run, take what has happened here, proceed with the remaining matches and learn from our mistakes, in order continue these events in the future it would be extremely advantageous to take what has happened here and attempt to prevent it from happening again.
Too often with events organized by players, people jump up and go back to school yard antics. This isn't Primary school, yet often than not, we are all guilty of adding fuel to the fire. Constantly arguing back and forth over what is realisitically a tiny issue is not doing anyone any favours. All it is doing, is pointing fingers at everyone else, whilst allowing the other servers the chance to point and laugh at us, as a whole.
I am all for server wide events, all for competitive pvp, all for forming a closer knit community. With but a few exeptions all I can see in this thread for the last 14 pages is a bucketload of text that has achieved nothing but waste everyones time.
So lets cut the ****. Move on, you guys finish this tournmament and then as a group of like minded people interested in competitive organized pvp we move forwards and look at finding a way to minimize the possibility of drama induced trolling happening in future events.
At the end of the day: Kudos to FFOZ for organizing and providing the initial excitment for the tournament. I have enjoyed watching all the games so far, and look forward to the semis and Final. Best of luck to the remaining teams.
You get a +10 in my book. 100% agree. REALLY looking forward to the next matches and possible(hopefully) another tourny here soon.
Comments
If that's truly the main reason behind not restarting the tournament, playing a "broken" spec, then that's laughable. A true minority of players refusing to give everyone a fresh start (GF exploit) is the epitome of selfishness.
Edit: I'd like to hear what the Tournament judges have to say on this matter before I make any decisions on my participation, but I'll put it out there right now - if there isn't an objective reason to continue this wreck and God2.0's reason stands, then it's a clear bias towards certain teams. I had my reservations about participating in this tournament from the beginning and I see those reservations have been validated.
[Tell] From [Click]: I hate how you think you're amazing at this game and think everyone else sucks
There has been no real issues with any of the matches that would of effected any of the outcomes. Roster rules of course are going to have to be tightened up more for next tournament, however most likely the rules themselves should be loosen'ed. Even with the time that was given, it is extremely hard to get together firm rosters with all the time zones and people in play. Some of these teams have people in one team from all over the world. I for one would MUCH rather see looser rules, and more matches played, and no disqualifications, then the alternative.
This is all about having fun, and the majority of people right now are having fun. I have atleast 10 tells today saying keep going, this tournament has given us reason to keep playing (this is from people outside of the guild).
It is unfortunate that some of these issues have given a sour note to things, mainly on the forums, however like I have stated earlier, we ALL will learn from these mistakes. The tournament is not going to be restarted.
(bozxx (god), is only expressing his opinion.), and not that of myself or judges. Having this tournament complete before the patch does play a factor however. Its not about playing during a broken spec. Its about playing the tournament the whole way through with the SAME set of class/feat/power/build setups. Like I said, we want this rule set to be wrapped up, then start another tournament, not have one tournament spread over 2 different rule sets.
Seeing as how the rules have already changed you just invalidated your reason. If you really cared about playing this tournament with the same set of rules, then the only option would be to restart it.
It is unfortunate you see it that way, I happily accept your withdrawl.
How have the rules been changed? All that was done, was the definition of obvious bugged feat was more explicitly now stated. Which there was only ever one case of it happening, in multiple matches now.
Aside from letting people participate, even if under-geared compared to the person(s) they replaced, that are not on the official team roster:
I have not received ANY complaints of those 2 new rules from anyone participating in the tournament. They are both obvious bugged feats/pwers, and nothing like come patch time with complete REWORKS of ability trees. If there is any problems with those 2 rules, please let judges no in game, since the 3 judges were the ones to add those rules in.
that has been corrected and I have been removed from roster if you havn't read by now from previous posts
First, you're missing the point. I asked for a valid reason why the tournament should continue instead of restarting it. You directly addressed my question, which I quoted, but it seems like you have since edited your original post to remove that line.
Fortunately, I quoted you in post #190.
Your actions validate AoD's withdrawal.
[Tell] From [Click]: I hate how you think you're amazing at this game and think everyone else sucks
I like playing with Army of Darkness, in particular Blessings and Little Deej. I solo que a lot and I win and lose to both of them about 50-50. I'm upset you guys are withdrawing from the tournament and was excited to see you guys participate. I'm disappointed my guild is trolling too. Everyone should kick back and relax a little. Believe me when I've had to make rulings the last two days on rules and that it is impossible to make everyone happy. I try and be fair. I 100% Support the ruling of the other two judges on this call and I feel it's a good one. If the Army of Darkness team continued to play Catholic Church would be at a severe disadvantage.
I'm sorry this has left a bad taste in your mouth, and I can understand why it has. But i'm really not trying to stack anything in my guild's favor. One example I can give you, is that a guildie pointed out to me that one particular player could swap a bunch of soulforged enchants mid-game and this was awesome. My initial thought on it ws..sure, it's awesome but it also makes for a bad tournament, so it's going to be banned. That didn't sit so great with other guild members, but they moved forward.
It's not easy making rulings on a game with so many bugged mechanics, exploits and cheesey options. I read your complaint and I believe it's a valid one as well. But I will say this: The rules are not being made up as we go along for the mutual benefit of the guild.
They are being made as issues continue to spring up in a tournament for well.... buggy as duck game.
On a side note, our guild is not popular because of a lot of the smack talkers. But i've also seen some of our bigger critics, hunker down and participate, so kudos to them, even that one in particular who's trolled me on multiple occasions (You know who you are, now accept my friend invite.)
Thanks guys for coming on.
thx for streaming and uploading the VoD, i enjoyed watching the gameplay, especially watching isidor running berserk oneshotting around.
gg guys, sticky
Yeah, those were great fights, and a lot of fun. I look forward to more premade's vs you guys and future tournaments. Your team had great sportsmanship.
I respect my GMs wishes to drop from the tourny but am sad to do so.
I sympathize with Shrugs here in that it would ideally be better to restart, but unfortunately the way these tournys get traction, well... it would be a bad thing to redo the first round imo...
The other issue with restarting the tourny is that think of what it will accomplish... The other matches have already happened as well so what if "Guild Breakers" wins this time? Wont that be seen as an unfair thing to happen since potporri won?
In the end, chances are FFoZ would have won, EOA didnt complain, they hadnt played a match yet, and the fact that it hurt them rather than help them doesnt really give me reason to question this... much... They didnt use bugged feats/skills...
My feedback for the NEXT tourny is this...
1) Have each participating team elect 1 judge, judges all then rule and majority wins.
2) Have a "buy in" for a prize pool... Its pretty easy for each guy to come up with 100k AD x 5 x 10 teams is an easy 5 mil for prizes... You can have other guilds donate more if needed, I think we all agree bragging rights is the main motivator here... AD is frosting.
3) Instead of single elim, make it a DOUBLE elim tourny...
4) Give each round a week to get matches straight, each team gets a roster of 10 people, can be ANY class however ATLEAST 4 different classes must be represented (can double up one class if you want) in the match. Players can change match to match in any round as long as they are on the final "approved" roster ahead of time.
These are the things I would have done if it were my tourny. I would love to host one, just aint rich enough to do so. I hope to see you all on the battlefield!!!
GL with the rest of the tourny guys.
Same was looking forward to another competitive match. For fun we could setup a 5v5 game and see how it plays out.
Im down with this, I would love some competition... Everygame that we are a premade in, we stomp on players... Unless we have 1 pug who afk quits or once we had a guy with 5k GS who just hit 60, pretty much lost us the match...
ranting now, but I am all for this.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Maybe PWI & Cryptic will run with our idea of a tourney and develop a PvP Ladder system.... One can only hope.
I don't think they'd be that smart!
- Tiduss -
(OoS)