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GCTRL's DPS Burst Cleric

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  • lerapisolerapiso Member Posts: 85
    edited July 2013
    gctrl wrote: »
    There is nothing to learn, either I crit less often with Daunting Light or I hit a little bit harder on Daunting Light. This build is about critting WITH high crit severity and using whole damage abilities to maximize burst potential.

    High prophet offer the best burst potential. It's sad that you can't understand simple thing like that.
    gctrl wrote: »
    Going High Prophet would only make more sense if I was doing a purely single target dot build, where the chance to crit is more frequent and losing out on the power/crit from Grand Templar is not a big deal.

    Absolutly no sense.
  • gctrlgctrl Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    lerapiso wrote: »
    High prophet offer the best burst potential. It's sad that you can't understand simple thing like that. Absolutly no sense.

    Absolutely no sense. <- See I can also make declarative statements without providing any argument whatsoever.
    Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s
    * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
  • lerapisolerapiso Member Posts: 85
    edited July 2013
    lerapiso wrote: »
    In fact, high prohet set is the best option.
    You will gain, in the best case, something like ~5% crit and ~2-3% more global damage from power with a 4/4 GT, you're far from the 10% damage at least from high prophet.

    Blackout syndrome, nice try :o
  • gctrlgctrl Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    You're only continuing to prove my point, either I crit less often with a skill I NEED to crit on or I hit slightly harder with it.

    With this build, losing crit chance = losing kill potential. Why? Because you're running with high crit severity. Which makes critting better than it normally is and the central part of this build.

    Doing 600 more damage on a 6000 damage regular hit is not going to help me kill someone any faster. Not with these ecounters at least, like I said, if this was a dot centered build focusing solely on single target dps, I would agree with you.

    Putting it simply, would I rather crit for 14-20k more often or hit for 600-800 damage more all the time.
    Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s
    * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
  • lerapisolerapiso Member Posts: 85
    edited July 2013
    gctrl wrote: »
    You're only continuing to prove my point, either I crit less often with a skill I NEED to crit on or I hit slightly harder with it.

    With this build, losing crit chance = losing kill potential. Why? Because you're running with high crit severity. Which makes critting better than it normally is and the central part of this build.

    Doing 600 more damage on a 6000 damage regular hit is not going to help me kill someone any faster. Not with these ecounters at least, like I said, if this was a dot centered build focusing solely on single target dps, I would agree with you.

    Putting it simply, would I rather crit for 14-20k more often or hit for 600-800 damage more all the time.

    Your reasoning is totally wrong.
    Typical Deistik syndrome, high critical severity = stacking crit is OP ... in fact, not really.
    You also need to understand that a 10% damage buff impact your non-critical damage and your critical damage.

    Now, let me explain in detail why High prophet, in your case, is better than any other set (GT in this exemple).

    What's the real gain from GT ?

    Your stat in GT 4/4 :
    Power : 4308
    Crit rating : 2978 = 17,03361% Crit chance
    Total crit chance : 5 + 17 + 14(STR) + 3(Feat) = 39%

    Your stat in HP 4/4 :
    Power : 3765
    Crit rating : 2458 = 15,40389% Crit chance
    Total crit chance : 5 + 15,4 + 14(STR) + 3(Feat) = 37.4%

    Notice that I neglect Initiate of the faith.

    Stat gain from HP to GT :

    Power : 543
    With my High WIS DC, a nearly same amount of Power (3741), and the same weapon, 300 power give me a 1-1,1% damage up depending of my skills setup.
    I'm very kind and I'll say that these 543 power represent a 2% damage increase.

    Crit : 1,6%
    Assuming you play with a 2,25 critical severity (perfect vorpal) :
    Damage gain = (39*2,25+61)/(37,4*2,25+62,6) = 1,36 %

    With these small amounts, we can omit synergistic effect and I will simply add the benefit from Power and the benefit from Crit :
    Global damage gain = 2 + 1,36 = 3,36%

    We can add to this total the proc from 4/4 GT, with the same reasoning :
    Gain from power : 450 = 1.5% damage gain
    Gain from crit : 2978 + 450 = 3428 ; +1,1% Crit chance ; Damage gain = (40,1*2,25+59,9)/(39*2,25+61) = 0,92%
    Uptime : 5/60
    Total = (2,42*5)/60 = 0,2%

    Global damage gain with proc = 2 + 1,36 = 3,56%

    With a High Prophet set it's at least 10% (if you totally annihilates your target armor with your arpen), and 30% max (and more if your target is a GF or GWF with high defense)

    I know you're still not satisfied, you will tell me Daunting Light don't apply the debuff.
    So we have this quote :
    Typically what you want to do is cast Chains to root your target, Divine Glow to weaken/soften them up(can crit for 5-6k) and then Daunting Light. Another way is (if you've gotten your placement and timing down) Divine Glow, Daunting Light, then Chains, and finish them off with Lance or Punishing Light.
    With your bassic setup, you'll Daunting light your target with 1-2 debuff (10-20%)

    And now, you'll tell me, "but i need crit to burst" :
    - You'll never feel a 1.6% crit chance difference IG
    - You have a better damage output (crit & non-crit)
    - So Yes, a higher burst potential.

    lel ...
  • gctrlgctrl Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    lerapiso wrote: »
    Your reasoning is totally wrong.
    Typical Deistik syndrome, high critical severity = stacking crit is OP ... in fact, not really.
    You also need to understand that a 10% damage buff impact your non-critical damage and your critical damage.

    Now, let me explain in detail why High prophet, in your case, is better than any other set (GT in this exemple).

    What's the real gain from GT ?

    Your stat in GT 4/4 :
    Power : 4308
    Crit rating : 2978 = 17,03361% Crit chance
    Total crit chance : 5 + 17 + 14(STR) + 3(Feat) = 39%

    Your stat in HP 4/4 :
    Power : 3765
    Crit rating : 2458 = 15,40389% Crit chance
    Total crit chance : 5 + 15,4 + 14(STR) + 3(Feat) = 37.4%

    Notice that I neglect Initiate of the faith.

    Stat gain from HP to GT :

    Power : 543
    With my High WIS DC, a nearly same amount of Power (3741), and the same weapon, 300 power give me a 1-1,1% damage up depending of my skills setup.
    I'm very kind and I'll say that these 543 power represent a 2% damage increase.

    Crit : 1,6%
    Assuming you play with a 2,25 critical severity (perfect vorpal) :
    Damage gain = (39*2,25+61)/(37,4*2,25+62,6) = 1,36 %

    With these small amounts, we can omit synergistic effect and I will simply add the benefit from Power and the benefit from Crit :
    Global damage gain = 2 + 1,36 = 3,36%

    We can add to this total the proc from 4/4 GT, with the same reasoning :
    Gain from power : 450 = 1.5% damage gain
    Gain from crit : 2978 + 450 = 3428 ; +1,1% Crit chance ; Damage gain = (40,1*2,25+59,9)/(39*2,25+61) = 0,92%
    Uptime : 5/60
    Total = (2,42*5)/60 = 0,2%

    Global damage gain with proc = 2 + 1,36 = 3,56%

    With a High Prophet set it's at least 10% (if you totally annihilates your target armor with your arpen), and 30% max (and more if your target is a GF or GWF with high defense)

    I know you're still not satisfied, you will tell me Daunting Light don't apply the debuff.
    So we have this quote :


    With your bassic setup, you'll Daunting light your target with 1-2 debuff (10-20%)

    And now, you'll tell me, "but i need crit to burst" :
    - You'll never feel a 1.6% crit chance difference IG
    - You have a better damage output (crit & non-crit)
    - So Yes, a higher burst potential.

    lel ...

    Finally, an argument. Thank you, I'll try the set.
    Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s
    * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
  • trinity1980trinity1980 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I'm playing my dps cleric only in PvE and I wanna ask, if stacking ArPen makes any sense.

    Currently, I'm sitting on:
    4115 Power
    2499 Crit
    388 ArPen
    2663 Recovery

    I use Radiant enchants for recovery in all offensive slots.
  • gctrlgctrl Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I'm playing my dps cleric only in PvE and I wanna ask, if stacking ArPen makes any sense.

    Currently, I'm sitting on:
    4115 Power
    2499 Crit
    388 ArPen
    2663 Recovery

    I use Radiant enchants for recovery in all offensive slots.

    Yes it will help you, just know that after about 1700 - 2000 AP you wont be ignoring anymore damage resistance on a mob.
    Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s
    * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
  • wholyhandgrenadewholyhandgrenade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I'd test it out piecemeal one slot more of ArPen at a time to see if you are playing stronger or weaker with it. If your equipment is slotted expensively you can purchase cheap duplicate pieces of it to compare against potential replacement parts tested with lesser slots (I like to test before investing and running full gear with anything I'm unsure about).
  • kidbskidbs Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 294
    edited July 2013
    I'm playing my dps cleric only in PvE and I wanna ask, if stacking ArPen makes any sense.

    Currently, I'm sitting on:
    4115 Power
    2499 Crit
    388 ArPen
    2663 Recovery

    I use Radiant enchants for recovery in all offensive slots.

    Armor pen is critical for any dps spec. It is the most effective way of increasing your dps.
  • fondlezfondlez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    gctrl wrote: »
    Yes it will help you, just know that after about 1700 - 2000 AP you wont be ignoring anymore damage resistance on a mob.

    You mean on a trash mob. Bosses have up to 24% Damage Resistance. So, arp caps at ~2,536.
  • gctrlgctrl Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    fondlez wrote: »
    You mean on a trash mob. Bosses have up to 24% Damage Resistance. So, arp caps at ~2,536.

    Yup, also have to take into account abilities that already lower defense, and if he groups with anyone there will be plenty of reduction of damage resistance.
    Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s
    * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
  • blahblahseanblahblahsean Member Posts: 94
    edited July 2013
    gctrl wrote: »
    Yup, also have to take into account abilities that already lower defense, and if he groups with anyone there will be plenty of reduction of damage resistance.

    'Defense Reduction' abilities, as was pointed out earlier in this thread, don't actually reduce defense, they reduce the target's damage resistance. Also, Armor Penetration doesn't actually make you ignore armor, it's just a flat increase in damage. For example, 10% ArP doesn't make you ignore 10% of the target's defense, it just makes you do 10% more damage to that target. So defense debuffs stack with ArP without diminishing ArP's value. So you'd still want 24% ArP (for bosses) even if you have a ton of 'defense' and/or 'mitigation' debuffs.
  • gctrlgctrl Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    streaming now.
    Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s
    * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
  • faeriestormfaeriestorm Member Posts: 460 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Also as a cleric in PvP I find it is immensely helpful to use your fashion gear (myself just wearing the peasants garb) because then it is harder to notice you are a cleric at first glance so you don't get focused as much.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • fondlezfondlez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Also as a cleric in PvP I find it is immensely helpful to use your fashion gear (myself just wearing the peasants garb) because then it is harder to notice you are a cleric at first glance so you don't get focused as much.

    Until you whip out your big, fat symbol!

    But yeah, its not bad idea. Cleric barb is so uniform that people unconsciously know exactly what to look for.
  • faeriestormfaeriestorm Member Posts: 460 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    fondlez wrote: »
    Until you whip out your big, fat symbol!

    But yeah, its not bad idea. Cleric barb is so uniform that people unconsciously know exactly what to look for.

    Yeah I can understand when I'm attacking (I mean even by the skills I use you would think they might realize XD) but since class gear is so distinctive it really makes you normal gear painting a big huge "Kill Me!" sign over your head.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • gctrlgctrl Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Build update.
    Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s
    * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
  • fondlezfondlez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    gctrl wrote: »
    Build update.

    Wait... wait, you got the full High Prophet Set?! Where and when did you get the Bound feet from, please?
  • blahblahseanblahblahsean Member Posts: 94
    edited July 2013
    fondlez wrote: »
    Wait... wait, you got the full High Prophet Set?! Where and when did you get the Bound feet from, please?

    Pretty certain it's Cragmire Crypt during the DD event.
  • gctrlgctrl Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Pretty certain it's Cragmire Crypt during the DD event.

    Correct, the other three pieces are all in plenty of supply and cheap on AH, 4-10k ad pretty much on Dragon.
    Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s
    * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
  • fondlezfondlez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    gctrl wrote: »
    Correct, the other three pieces are all in plenty of supply and cheap on AH, 4-10k ad pretty much on Dragon.

    You got lucky then. No one seems to run T1s any more, with the exception of GFs in Mad Dragon, including during DD.

    EDIT: nevermind. After a one hour and 20min wait for Cragmire Crypt to pop, first run (which was a full run) and it dropped! Been looking for this item for so long, lol...
  • webbotwebbot Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Dctrl you are a massively skilled priest.
  • gctrlgctrl Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    fondlez wrote: »
    nevermind. After a one hour and 20min wait for Cragmire Crypt to pop, first run (which was a full run) and it dropped! Been looking for this item for so long, lol...

    Yeah only took me about 3-4 runs, not so bad.
    Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s
    * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
  • cnmicyniqcnmicyniq Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    i've gotten the boots in CN during a DD, FH during DD, and FH non DD
  • llclickllllclickll Banned Users Posts: 149 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Everytime I see a DPS Cleric in PvP, a smile comes across my face because I know they're going to be a free kill all game.

    Sure, you can dish out a lot of damage as a Cleric, but you're basically a DPS Control Wizard without the CCs, 1 less dodge, and almost as squishy. Tanky Clerics who heal, buff their team, and debuff enemies are far more valuable in PvP.
  • wholyhandgrenadewholyhandgrenade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    llclickll wrote: »
    Everytime I see a DPS Cleric in PvP, a smile comes across my face because I know they're going to be a free kill all game.

    Sure, you can dish out a lot of damage as a Cleric, but you're basically a DPS Control Wizard without the CCs, 1 less dodge, and almost as squishy. Tanky Clerics who heal, buff their team, and debuff enemies are far more valuable in PvP.

    what are you a GWF as that is the class that you can't outrun, stun, push away and that simply charges clerics
  • fondlezfondlez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    llclickll wrote: »
    Everytime I see a DPS Cleric in PvP, a smile comes across my face because I know they're going to be a free kill all game.

    Sure, you can dish out a lot of damage as a Cleric, but you're basically a DPS Control Wizard without the CCs, 1 less dodge, and almost as squishy. Tanky Clerics who heal, buff their team, and debuff enemies are far more valuable in PvP.

    I agree that dps clerics die ultra ultra fast. Literally one or two shot by any class in any gear, despite their 21/22 AC!

    But, ironically, in most groups you contribute far more with damage and kills and freedom of positioning on the battle field, instead of being forced to always go where there are the most enemies just to even start to do your job, i.e. get Divinity.

    Of course, in a good group or premade who are aware of all the cap points, fight on points instead of middle of nowhere, play to win instead of play for kills, possibly even communicate (shock!), etc. a healer is far more valuable. But in pugs, such groups almost never appear. So, overall dps cleric is just more fun and effective instead of banging your head against a wall 1,000 times and dying almost as fast as a dps cleric anyway.

    Only if you are a specialised high CON build with high HP gear and high regen does your survivability improve to the point where you can hang around on a point for long enough not quite dead yet from a 1v1 for team mates to notice and therefore for you to lead where a fight takes place. In that situation, survivability = Divinity = healing = leadership = viability. So, you can always afford to run random pugs as a healer then.

    In short, the win/loss rate of my pvp battles as dps cleric is much higher than as a healer since I only pug.
  • webbotwebbot Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    llclickll wrote: »
    Everytime I see a DPS Cleric in PvP, a smile comes across my face because I know they're going to be a free kill all game.

    Sure, you can dish out a lot of damage as a Cleric, but you're basically a DPS Control Wizard without the CCs, 1 less dodge, and almost as squishy. Tanky Clerics who heal, buff their team, and debuff enemies are far more valuable in PvP.

    Click not posting is far more valuable
  • gctrlgctrl Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    llclickll wrote: »
    Everytime I see a DPS Cleric in PvP, a smile comes across my face because I know they're going to be a free kill all game.

    Sure, you can dish out a lot of damage as a Cleric, but you're basically a DPS Control Wizard without the CCs, 1 less dodge, and almost as squishy. Tanky Clerics who heal, buff their team, and debuff enemies are far more valuable in PvP.

    Yeah we are very squishy, so it really comes down to positioning and the competence of your teammates to stay alive. And also, however you choose to play your class comes down to what is the most fun for you, I get more enjoyment out of dealing damage than healing people, and playing this way as a Cleric becomes pretty challenging for all the reasons you mention (which is also fun).
    Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s
    * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
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