See I find normal DV fairly easy and enjoyable. Epic DV's boss fight is redunkulous. Still haven't beat it.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited July 2013
Dread vault is annoying because *all* the mindflayers have cone disabling attacks, then you get the Phoon Hulk things spamming their "suck you in" ability. All this overlaps to the point where you simply don't have enough stamina to dodge effectively, and the attacks are coming from all angles, so a GF can't block them either.
The final battles should have a mechanic where players can destroy or block some sort of doorway that the adds must use to get there - doing so would cut off reinforcements for a while at least.
A general rule of design for these fights should be "can your average player dodge well enough to avoid these disabling attacks". If the answer is no, or if it must be qualified with a "yes if they have X ability/item/etc", then you're designing it wrong.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
4 responses, 4 people that didn't actually read those 10 paragraphs and 1 sentence.
What you are saying is, you want improvements to the dungeon system entirely? But while you were saying that you wanted to vent like a pissy 13 year old? You're pretty much wrong in most of your posts, this boss DOES require you to throw adds off a cliff that DOES exist. I think you should find a guild, running with PuGs has ruined you.
Please construct it without the sarcasm next time and maybe people would read it, or include a TL/DR.
Here's the thing about Dread Vault. It's not really all that hard BUT it is badly designed. Not just in the generic, too much trash, dull boss mechanics way that most every other dungeon is also guilty of. But in the sense that both the basic mobs and the final boss encounter are badly designed because they expose many of the weaknesses in the way combat works in this game.
They create far too many sloppy situations where there's no good option or no options at all. So the only really good strategies for this dungeon involve exploiting its weak design elements, using ledges and areas that the AI can't/won't go to. Which is just another example of how badly designed it is.
Yep. There isn't really anything for it but stand in the shield and let the wizard throw things off, hope that you don't get pinballed into too much damage.
Yep. There isn't really anything for it but stand in the shield and let the wizard throw things off, hope that you don't get pinballed into too much damage.
There isn't all that much trash at the final boss.
The occasional pair of brain dogs(one GWF or GF can tank and kill those), the tentacles(if you get hit by those then be more careful), the actual dangerous stuff is the AOE stunning illithids(a good CW paired with a GF can kite these to the edge to throw off) and the maw(the GF or GWF aggro, TR kills).
Where a lot of parties fail is the 2nd miniboss(which you can't throw off the side), you have to let the TR deal with the mini boss while everyone else avoids the AOE attacks and kites the trash, if the party ends up badly positioned wrt the trash it can easily lead to the AOE stuns coming from every angle and causing a partial or full party wipe.
Of course, a lack of communication or inexperience is often the reason people don't know how to deal with that second miniboss.
I've only ran Dread Vault once so far. The problem my GWF and a TR had was having Dailies land us inside the brains outer shell. Thus preventing us from getting back out to safety. My use of Crescendo did this to me. I don't actually know what the TR used.
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phoenixshockMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 27Arc User
edited July 2013
Felt like I should throw my 2 cents on on this topic. Currently I play this game off and on, not a real active guild, so mostly solo queuing, pvp, 1-2 friends now and again when schedules line up. I've played multiple MMO's in the past, warcraft, rift, swtor, ect. And while Neverwinter should not strive to be any of those I do feel like there are lessons Cryptic can learn from them.
I main a GWF, only about 9k gear score, I top meters on adds fights as well as single target for the most part, but my experience in DD events usually is waiting in the queue for 10-90 minutes followed by 3 people leaving immediately because a CW isn't in the group with the rare occation of clearing to the last fight and no one knowing how to play their class beyond "Spam X until y" comes off CD". The first 4 posts pretty much pointed out the main problem with DD to begin with.
If you have a good CW, they will just throw them off the cliff
This should not be the strategy for every single fight in the game. No single strategy should be your go to method for clearing/kill a fight. You should have to control your adds, kill them, deal with the mechanics, ect. But people don't want to do anything other then the bare minimum and have gone with the allowed easy route. I would love to see cryptic put up walls on every cliff in the game and watch everyone have to relearn how to play.
So the question is, how do you fix these issues? How do you stop people from leaving/kicking people for no reason? For starters "Get a CW" is not the right answer.
Suggestions
1. Debuff players that leave a dungeon prior to it's completion. Full injury, timed debuff preventing you from entering a delve, AD loss, ect.
2. Mobs don't die when thrown off. Simple as that. You throw them off a ledge and the teleport back up immediately. This will cause groups to actually have to deal with them, not simple skip them using CW.
3. Chests at the end of the dungeon, not just during events. This gives players incentive to run while delves are not going on.
4. Space out NPC CC abilities. Having hulks and mindflayers pulling and silencing you at the same time which turns into an insta-death you can not avoid is never fun for anyone.
5. Trash drops - Give player incentive to actually kill trash, not skip it. Even if they are shards, runes or bonus coins.
6. Make boss fights more interesting. Stop with the "Spawn a bunch of adds and don't stand in the red stuff." I have seen very few interesting mechanics actually being used.
I'm sure there are more that other players can suggest, but that is my short list.
/rant
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dakkhonMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 8Arc User
Comments
The final battles should have a mechanic where players can destroy or block some sort of doorway that the adds must use to get there - doing so would cut off reinforcements for a while at least.
A general rule of design for these fights should be "can your average player dodge well enough to avoid these disabling attacks". If the answer is no, or if it must be qualified with a "yes if they have X ability/item/etc", then you're designing it wrong.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
What you are saying is, you want improvements to the dungeon system entirely? But while you were saying that you wanted to vent like a pissy 13 year old? You're pretty much wrong in most of your posts, this boss DOES require you to throw adds off a cliff that DOES exist. I think you should find a guild, running with PuGs has ruined you.
Please construct it without the sarcasm next time and maybe people would read it, or include a TL/DR.
Yep. There isn't really anything for it but stand in the shield and let the wizard throw things off, hope that you don't get pinballed into too much damage.
this is still a valid stat: kill off one tentacle then focus boss. When tentacle respawns, repeat.
The rest of party stands in a corner while the TR kills boss 'strategy' is probably easier though.
There isn't all that much trash at the final boss.
The occasional pair of brain dogs(one GWF or GF can tank and kill those), the tentacles(if you get hit by those then be more careful), the actual dangerous stuff is the AOE stunning illithids(a good CW paired with a GF can kite these to the edge to throw off) and the maw(the GF or GWF aggro, TR kills).
Where a lot of parties fail is the 2nd miniboss(which you can't throw off the side), you have to let the TR deal with the mini boss while everyone else avoids the AOE attacks and kites the trash, if the party ends up badly positioned wrt the trash it can easily lead to the AOE stuns coming from every angle and causing a partial or full party wipe.
Of course, a lack of communication or inexperience is often the reason people don't know how to deal with that second miniboss.
I main a GWF, only about 9k gear score, I top meters on adds fights as well as single target for the most part, but my experience in DD events usually is waiting in the queue for 10-90 minutes followed by 3 people leaving immediately because a CW isn't in the group with the rare occation of clearing to the last fight and no one knowing how to play their class beyond "Spam X until y" comes off CD". The first 4 posts pretty much pointed out the main problem with DD to begin with.
This should not be the strategy for every single fight in the game. No single strategy should be your go to method for clearing/kill a fight. You should have to control your adds, kill them, deal with the mechanics, ect. But people don't want to do anything other then the bare minimum and have gone with the allowed easy route. I would love to see cryptic put up walls on every cliff in the game and watch everyone have to relearn how to play.
So the question is, how do you fix these issues? How do you stop people from leaving/kicking people for no reason? For starters "Get a CW" is not the right answer.
Suggestions
1. Debuff players that leave a dungeon prior to it's completion. Full injury, timed debuff preventing you from entering a delve, AD loss, ect.
2. Mobs don't die when thrown off. Simple as that. You throw them off a ledge and the teleport back up immediately. This will cause groups to actually have to deal with them, not simple skip them using CW.
3. Chests at the end of the dungeon, not just during events. This gives players incentive to run while delves are not going on.
4. Space out NPC CC abilities. Having hulks and mindflayers pulling and silencing you at the same time which turns into an insta-death you can not avoid is never fun for anyone.
5. Trash drops - Give player incentive to actually kill trash, not skip it. Even if they are shards, runes or bonus coins.
6. Make boss fights more interesting. Stop with the "Spawn a bunch of adds and don't stand in the red stuff." I have seen very few interesting mechanics actually being used.
I'm sure there are more that other players can suggest, but that is my short list.
/rant
This i agree with, and it comes from someone with a 60 CW who is tired of playing the push them off the cliff.
As for running a full dungeon on a normal run, most pugs want to skip the most of it and run as fast as possible...so boring.
On top of this, you add the broken queue system then you can only find a group once in a while (no full groups for me in 2 days !).
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Pull your finger out, stop giving interviews to nobody RPG websites and telling them how happy YOU are when your customer base clearly isn't..