Any topic that opens with "Hi my GS is ..." is already a fail topic. It shows you have no clue about gear/enchants and therefore shouldn't be taken seriously.
Any topic that opens with "Hi my GS is ..." is already a fail topic. It shows you have no clue about gear/enchants and therefore shouldn't be taken seriously.
Mr.Nobody had to say a comment, but obviously he wouldn't declare himself. Hide behind internet.
So being one-shotted by a TR is considered a balanced mechanic and "part of the game," but being able to tank huge damage isn't? OK.
What makes them immune to damage is an armor enchant called Soulforge, which by the, is accessible by ANY CLASS, including TRs. Unstoppable only grants them immunity from CCs and damage reduction. Also, several people have already figured out how to stop a Sentinel specced GWF. It's not hard.
Maybe you should do some research before you do some whining on the forums. You don't even understand how the class works. It seems like you are speaking from a perspective of a player who has played a GWF up to level 15.
Are you utterly <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>? Of course I know what soulforged is, and you thinking I didn't knew makes me think you don't know much from that game if you consider that "advanced" knowledge that you think you're sharing with anybody.
About 10% health for unstopable what have you been smoking?.
The only OP thing in this game would have to be the Tenebrous enchant, any class with 6 of those will crush any class without it, so why don't you go and whine about that.
It has an internal cooldown of 10s. Personnaly I prefer darks to tenebrous. But that's just personnal preference.
COI + enfeeble will pretty much destroy their DR. If you can get two enfeebles on them, it's basically a death sentence if you attack while they're out of unstoppable. Problem is most CW's will spam their abilities while they get off cooldown...don't do this. Apply enfeebles right when unstoppable is going to expire, and start cc'ing/nuking them, then run back if that didn't kill them or it's their turn to open up on you.
Not even that. And I'm stacking all of what you said. Still can barely get thru. I do damage them, but the casting time is so long they that if I take the time to cast it, they can start their combo and kill me.
I'm digging the part where they infer an unstoppable heals when it doesn't unless you take the feats for it, I'm also digging the part where it needs a cool down that means every other classes dodges would need cool downs and GF can only block every other hit orso so all classes have open to fire CC failmunities.
My time as a GWF must have been broken something fierce because I couldn't get my unstoppable to go off every 2 seconds no matter how much I mashed that button. But then again those tricky CWs seemed to have mind reading powers because they always dodged my super obvious slow animation take down and repel me so far back and usually ice stormed me so I would be moving slower and if I sprinted it they just kept moving til I couldn't sprint and after 2 or 3 minutes of neither of us killing the other I'd get bored and go look for a rogue that wasn't in stealth as they are quite tasty...shame there are so many permastealth rogues now darned if I can find them.
Yay feet at the beggining of a tree. The reason you're not hitting them is because you're obvious. If you thought for a second, and I'm giving you an advice here: Don't cast your spell right away, go towards them, just give them a hit or w/e and as soon as they teleport, because they will as soon as you get close, just cast that thing which i can't remember the name, but it's a ranged <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that immobilize. Then you can 1 hit them if you got any gear at all.
Yes, 2 seconds (on a high constant damage output) but the defence and AC just eats up so much of the damage, it looks like nothing.
You wrote: "I am also levelling a gwf and a gf currently", which made me assume you don't have a lvl60 GWF in pvp yet. You're only commenting on what you saw other people do.
If you do have a lvl60 GWF you should have known there is a serious cooldown on Unstoppable, it's called 'taking damage' and it's not so good for one's health.
You also lump all paragon's path together, as if massive survivability, maximum determination and extreme-selfhealing in unstoppable are skills on every GWF. They are not, you should know that if you play one.
When unstoppable can be activated, it only gives a 25% damage reduction. It takes a lot more damage to get it to the full 100% determination and get the 50% damage reduction. If you see a GWF go berserk every few seconds, he does NOT have the 50% reduction.
While in unstoppable, the GWF does NOT get determination from taking damage. I know the common consensus is to treat the GWF like a leper when he's in unstoppable mode, I just don't think that's the smartest thing to do.
As the game of rock-scissors-paper... every class has a strength and a weakness. Claiming OPness of class X because it skills exploit the weakness of your own class, is like rock asking for a nerf to paper, because paper always beats rock.
Actually they also build some from dealing damage if they have the feat. And taking a little damage, to heal yourself after by and becoming hulk isn't a big trade off.
GO and level a GWF to 60. Spend 50-100k on some t1 2/2 set pieces and start pvping. Read up on a proper PVP build. Once you have experienced a couple weeks of that then you will no longer feel that GWF is OP considering your main is a TR.
I understand the frustration. Just giving you some sound advice in how to master your PVP experience.
If there is a class that you are constantly losing to then your best bet is to study the class by playing it and you will understand the strengths and weaknesses and capitalize on opportunities when the arise.
Any topic that opens with "Hi my GS is ..." is already a fail topic. It shows you have no clue about gear/enchants and therefore shouldn't be taken seriously.
In all fairness this is a catch-22. IF you don't comment on what your GS is, then people will respond with "clearly you're not geared and should expect to constantly be curbstomped." If you do post your GS, then people respond with "you have no clue what that means." So either way it can be used to dismiss someone's post. I would respectfully suggest that it's better to post it and a bit about the way they're geared so that people have a bit more context.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Please learn to play, GWF are better than what they were, yes but they are not nearly as being as good as rogues are. I mean are you serious? vorpal enchantment+stealth +leashing strike = 30k damage... if that fails to do the job then impossible to catch and throw daggers. Did that fail?? Ok np, Shadow Strike and 100% crit leashing again...
I cant believe that someone as a rogue is crying about GWFs.
Forgot to add the stupid perma stealth thingy and all the other tricks they have at their disposal to use. Just read your skills and try to figure some combos. Not everything is button mashing the keyboard as if you were DPSing the brain dead AI from bosses at dungeons.
You are like those PvP repel mages that complain about how OP other classes are and they slot repel for PvP.
Pls...
If there is something <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in PvP is the prone duration from GF attacks+the insane burst damage they have. The rest its just fine.
I have to say, as the player of a 60 GWF, your description doesn't match my experience.
I can agree with you that CW has a difficult time against GWF. I can pop Unstoppable while being lifted or dragged, so I can pretty easily escape a CWs control. OTOH, I can't hit Unstoppable while prone or dazed, so TRs and GFs have a much easier time stunlocking me.
Sure, Unstoppable is great. However, improving it involves tradeoffs. Getting the 5% heal requires 5 points in the Instigator tree. Getting the Determination boost from dealing damage requires completing the entire Destroyer tree. Getting the "super-durability" requires a moderate to substantial commitment to the Sentinel tree and a specific type of gear. Getting the extra 10% heal over 10s when using Unstoppable requires a specific T1 pvp gear set which is weaker than several other set choices. Any given GWF will have some of these things, but no GWF can have all of them.
It is a good but not a perfect CC defense. For example, I'm almost NEVER Unstoppable when a fight starts, so in 1v1 I often have to eat chain-CC to the face and take 10k - 30k damage before I can do anything. Avoiding that requires split-second timing, careful estimation of ranges and a little bit of trickery, which is hard (skill vs. skill, which we all like, right?). When entering a big 3v3+ furball around a point, if 2 good players with knockdown/daze happen to pick me as their first target, I'll be dead (or down to maybe 10% health) before I can stand up and pop Unstoppable. GWF vs GWF is also difficult; Weapon Master Strike+Flourish+Takedown+Indomitable Battle Strike+Crescendo from a destroyer-spec GWF deals a lot of damage and doesn't allow Unstoppable unless the attacker screws up his timing. In other words, there are common situations in which Unstoppable does not grant me a free win and I have to play skillfully for my kills.
Regarding inability to kill GWFs who run away, I also am confused about this. My experience is that even with Bravery for +15% run speed, a TR or CW can usually dodge/port/whatever fast enough that it is non-trivial for me to catch them before they stealth or run to friends who can protect them. If 3 of 5 classes are good at escaping, is it really a GWF-OP thing or more of a feature-of-the-game thing?
Please learn to play, GWF are better than what they were, yes but they are not nearly as being as good as rogues are. I mean are you serious? vorpal enchantment+stealth +leashing strike = 30k damage... if that fails to do the job then impossible to catch and throw daggers. Did that fail?? Ok np, Shadow Strike and 100% crit leashing again...
I cant believe that someone as a rogue is crying about GWFs.
Forgot to add the stupid perma stealth thingy and all the other tricks they have at their disposal to use. Just read your skills and try to figure some combos. Not everything is button mashing the keyboard as if you were DPSing the brain dead AI from bosses at dungeons.
You are like those PvP repel mages that complain about how OP other classes are and they slot repel for PvP.
Pls...
If there is something <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in PvP is the prone duration from GF attacks+the insane burst damage they have. The rest its just fine.
My main is a DC, and my favorite pvp is my PVP CW. I barely play if not my TR, I find it extremely boring.
I have to say, as the player of a 60 GWF, your description doesn't match my experience.
I can agree with you that CW has a difficult time against GWF. I can pop Unstoppable while being lifted or dragged, so I can pretty easily escape a CWs control. OTOH, I can't hit Unstoppable while prone or dazed, so TRs and GFs have a much easier time stunlocking me.
Sure, Unstoppable is great. However, improving it involves tradeoffs. Getting the 5% heal requires 5 points in the Instigator tree. Getting the Determination boost from dealing damage requires completing the entire Destroyer tree. Getting the "super-durability" requires a moderate to substantial commitment to the Sentinel tree and a specific type of gear. Getting the extra 10% heal over 10s when using Unstoppable requires a specific T1 pvp gear set which is weaker than several other set choices. Any given GWF will have some of these things, but no GWF can have all of them.
It is a good but not a perfect CC defense. For example, I'm almost NEVER Unstoppable when a fight starts, so in 1v1 I often have to eat chain-CC to the face and take 10k - 30k damage before I can do anything. Avoiding that requires split-second timing, careful estimation of ranges and a little bit of trickery, which is hard (skill vs. skill, which we all like, right?). When entering a big 3v3+ furball around a point, if 2 good players with knockdown/daze happen to pick me as their first target, I'll be dead (or down to maybe 10% health) before I can stand up and pop Unstoppable. GWF vs GWF is also difficult; Weapon Master Strike+Flourish+Takedown+Indomitable Battle Strike+Crescendo from a destroyer-spec GWF deals a lot of damage and doesn't allow Unstoppable unless the attacker screws up his timing. In other words, there are common situations in which Unstoppable does not grant me a free win and I have to play skillfully for my kills.
Regarding inability to kill GWFs who run away, I also am confused about this. My experience is that even with Bravery for +15% run speed, a TR or CW can usually dodge/port/whatever fast enough that it is non-trivial for me to catch them before they stealth or run to friends who can protect them. If 3 of 5 classes are good at escaping, is it really a GWF-OP thing or more of a feature-of-the-game thing?
You don't need to be fully feated to deal a lot of damage, a sentinel with 5 points into the healing feat can 5 points to spend w/e can easily last forever. The problem is, GWF are so tanky it's nearly impossible without some lucky crits to get them before they go unstoppable.
Most gwf's are kind of stupid and that plays for us CW, they cast their spells in obvious matters, kind of like rogues. But a fine GWF can easily overtrow any class. Because even if you time your stuff perfectly, there's always that split second where you can clic it. And you regenerate ennough health during that time to be able to tank more spells, which gives you back the...
It's like an endless chain.
GWF are definetly best at escaping, next to TR. A tr can always be chased because you somehow know where it goes or you can put spells or skills on them to be able to follow them a little. GWF will run at super speed without being affected by anything, pop your mount around a corner and you're gone. If you get teamed on before you can use unstoppable, you will die. But otherwise, a well geared GWF can tank 3 peoples easily in Unstoppable.
The problem isn't mostly the fact that unstoppable is too strong in itself, there just needs to be a cooldown. 3-4 seconds would make me happy. giving an actual window. The current window is 3 basic attack, not far ennough, it pops too quickly back up. And the temp HP will just soak up the extra damage.
As the game of rock-scissors-paper... every class has a strength and a weakness. Claiming OPness of class X because it skills exploit the weakness of your own class, is like rock asking for a nerf to paper, because paper always beats rock.
Equating class balance in an MMO video game (with hundreds and thousands of variables to consider), to a simplistic game of rock-paper-scissors is completely disingenuous and laughable at best. It's false reductionism and a pseudo-intellectual way of looking at things. Believe it or not, there is such a thing as nuance, stick with arguing the facts please.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpFxEBcVRY4 <--- This is a montage of a TR, but skip over to 0:50 where you'll see the TR soloing a GWF when they are both at 100% health and encounters. This GWF is obviously NOT sentinel build and not that skilled in fighting TRs. IMO, for a GWF to be skilled against fighting TRs as an attack build, they have to really, push on the attack and act fast before the TR does any CC on them. That means they have to stunlock the TR fast and hard first.
Equating class balance in an MMO video game (with hundreds and thousands of variables to consider), to a simplistic game of rock-paper-scissors is completely disingenuous and laughable at best. It's false reductionism and a pseudo-intellectual way of looking at things. Believe it or not, there is such a thing as nuance, stick with arguing the facts please.
Good form, kind sir!
Black and white only exists in kids comic books or the head of a close minded fool.
The world is a delightful shade of grey- hazy, indistinct grey
Back on topic, i cant believe no one has mentioned the worst, most annoying gwf bug- sometimes there **** "surround you with clones and knock you prone" move follows around for the whole match. Idk what triggers it, but once it happens that animation will go off randomly for the rest of the match.
Its spooky and frightens the hell outta my poor cw, who is developing a severe case of paranoia over it. **** gwfs are always watching- always waiting.
Equating class balance in an MMO video game (with hundreds and thousands of variables to consider), to a simplistic game of rock-paper-scissors is completely disingenuous and laughable at best. It's false reductionism and a pseudo-intellectual way of looking at things. Believe it or not, there is such a thing as nuance, stick with arguing the facts please.
If you thought for a second, and I'm giving you an advice here: Don't cast your spell right away, go towards them, just give them a hit or w/e and as soon as they teleport, because they will as soon as you get close, just cast that thing which i can't remember the name, but it's a ranged <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that immobilize. Then you can 1 hit them if you got any gear at all.
Unless your sprinting into melee range of a CW they can keep their distance fairly well and repel and shield push you away and if they do you just have to repel them abit sooner. They have enough evasion and repel ability that if they focus on these two rather than dmg they could keep a GWF at distance far too long that another team member can show up and assist. I've fought these CWs they never killed my GWF but I could never get into melee range long enough to inflict any damage they dodge the slow animations and then pushing and simply staying at distance my sprint bar would need to be much larger to catch them currently.
Unless your sprinting into melee range of a CW they can keep their distance fairly well and repel and shield push you away and if they do you just have to repel them abit sooner. They have enough evasion and repel ability that if they focus on these two rather than dmg they could keep a GWF at distance far too long that another team member can show up and assist. I've fought these CWs they never killed my GWF but I could never get into melee range long enough to inflict any damage they dodge the slow animations and then pushing and simply staying at distance my sprint bar would need to be much larger to catch them currently.
QFT. If I burn my sprint getting close to a CW, I can't chase him when he ports. If I save it, it takes me forever to run up to him and get knocked back several times, and by the time I'm fighting him his friends are targeting me too and I have to use sprint to bail out. Half the time another GWF sprints to follow me, or somebody mounts and chases after me, and I can't mount because I have a bleed on me or someone is shooting me at extreme range, and I get knocked down by my pursuer and have to turn and fight (and lose). CW rarely gets the kill in these situations, but he shuts me down. Now, if the CW is sloppy or on cooldown, or if he's slotted the wrong spells, I'll get the drop on him. But I've never experienced the feeling of "yeah man, I've got Unstoppable, easy kills!"
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astariadodfMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
I really wish people would research/understand a class before calling to balance it. WAKE UP I am saying it again, GWFS have no innate healing function. To heal you have to choose to - lifesteal, pot up, regen and only 1 function restoring strike. 3 of those 4 ALL classes can do.
If a GWF uses restoring strike, its a very obvious move. It also is not really the best choice, because its damage is lower and it heals based of the damage done. So believe me, my lifesteal/lifedrinker on higher damage acts is WAY more desirable.
As far as Immune - we are not immune. We have a damage reduction. We do have some VERY short immunes, but off of dailies or other things. Shall we talk about your rogues six second immunity catch me if you can?
All classes have an immune function somewhere. IMO things like catch me if you can should be what they are designed for - defense. That means you dont pop it and start to attack. Attack should be shut off if you choose to try to get away.
Do that on all classes and believe me we will be one step closer to balance. BTW I play TR too, so I know what I am talking about in those two classes.
I really wish people would research/understand a class before calling to balance it. WAKE UP I am saying it again, GWFS have no innate healing function. To heal you have to choose to - lifesteal, pot up, regen and only 1 function restoring strike. 3 of those 4 ALL classes can do.
If a GWF uses restoring strike, its a very obvious move. It also is not really the best choice, because its damage is lower and it heals based of the damage done. So believe me, my lifesteal/lifedrinker on higher damage acts is WAY more desirable.
As far as Immune - we are not immune. We have a damage reduction. We do have some VERY short immunes, but off of dailies or other things. Shall we talk about your rogues six second immunity catch me if you can?
All classes have an immune function somewhere. IMO things like catch me if you can should be what they are designed for - defense. That means you dont pop it and start to attack. Attack should be shut off if you choose to try to get away.
Do that on all classes and believe me we will be one step closer to balance. BTW I play TR too, so I know what I am talking about in those two classes.
Why are you so fixated on the fact that my main is a TR.... it's the character I play the least And I beleive ItC is 3 seconds. Never had any problems with rogues, i find them ridiculously bad in fact. Annoying sometimes, but always bad and easy to kill overall.
Whatever that lifesteal is, it's too much while you're in unstoppable. Either that either introduce a small inner cooldown
realboMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
Please L2play the game and learn the mechanics of other classes before you whine like a 13 year old kid. Just because TRs can no longer constantly one-shot every single class in PvP without getting touched like they did pre-patch doesn't mean other classes are OP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpFxEBcVRY4 <--- This is a montage of a TR, but skip over to 0:50 where you'll see the TR soloing a GWF when they are both at 100% health and encounters. This GWF is obviously NOT sentinel build and not that skilled in fighting TRs. IMO, for a GWF to be skilled against fighting TRs as an attack build, they have to really, push on the attack and act fast before the TR does any CC on them. That means they have to stunlock the TR fast and hard first.
To be fair, the TR used courage breaker there which will slow (it's nearly a root) a GWF during unstoppable which is probably a bug. It could be working as intended but I kind of doubt it. GWF can't do much when he has the courage breaker debuff on him unless your silly enough to stand next to him.
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
To be fair, the TR used courage breaker there which will slow (it's nearly a root) a GWF during unstoppable which is probably a bug. It could be working as intended but I kind of doubt it. GWF can't do much when he has the courage breaker debuff on him unless your silly enough to stand next to him.
No, Courage Breaker goes through any immunity. It's a wonderfully underutilized Daily, but alas, there just isn't space for it. I can (if I'm fortunately) kill two with Lurker's Assault (Impact Shot + Lashing Blade), and one with SE. There just ins't space.
Why are you so fixated on the fact that my main is a TR.... it's the character I play the least And I beleive ItC is 3 seconds. Never had any problems with rogues, i find them ridiculously bad in fact. Annoying sometimes, but always bad and easy to kill overall.
Whatever that lifesteal is, it's too much while you're in unstoppable. Either that either introduce a small inner cooldown
ITC is 5 seconds if it's maxed out. If you use the stealth version of that skill, 5 seconds of complete immunity to ANYTHING is very powerful. If you have CD reducing stats and stealth recovery abilities/feats, that skill is EXTREMELY power. I'm not going to say it's OP, but it's definitely one of the best utility encounters in the game if not the best utility encounter.
No, Courage Breaker goes through any immunity. It's a wonderfully underutilized Daily, but alas, there just isn't space for it. I can (if I'm fortunately) kill two with Lurker's Assault (Impact Shot + Lashing Blade), and one with SE. There just ins't space.
Courage breaker IS an underrated skill. I use it a lot and many people that are its prey are "OMG, wtf did that TR just do to me? I have a 90% damage reduction and 90% movement debuff that lasts for 7 seconds?!" This skill is useful against ANY class if done right.
It's pretty obvious Unstoppable needs some tweaking; slight cooldown would probably "balance" the class out.
As a CW with endgame gear (multiple tenes, greater vorpal), I find it nearly impossible to beat a geared tanky (I think Sentinel skill tree?) GWF in a 1v1. Sometimes I get lucky and land an Ice Knife and burst them down before they get up and pop Unstoppable.
I know other classes don't have the same difficulties with GWF. Geared GFs can easily knock them down and kill them before they can pop Unstoppable. And, of course, Rogues can deal with them too since they have an answer for everything; shocking execution ignores their Unstoppable defense.
Without their encounters a GWF is pretty useless. And their big pvp encounters - takedown, battle strike, and flourish -have huge telegraphic animations...
Now consider you have a bunch of dodges.
Here's your free protip: When you see the animation, teleport.
Courage breaker IS an underrated skill. I use it a lot and many people that are its prey are "OMG, wtf did that TR just do to me? I have a 90% damage reduction and 90% movement debuff that lasts for 7 seconds?!" This skill is useful against ANY class if done right.
And this is why ANY TR crying about ANY other class, should shut up, read their skills and feats and learn to play.
But no, its easier to say, OH NO certain class is OP pls nerf... come on.. seriously...
And yeah, sorry if im being too rude or aggressive, its just it hits me really hard to see someone playing a class with soo many variants and "exploits" (perma stealth pls, vorpal +1 hit leashing pls, immunity spell... and i can keep it going ) to complain about others. Its obviously that no matter what your GS is or your experience in the game you still have a lot to learn.
BTW im a CW and i have NEVER had a problem with GWFs i can kill them in 1 rotation and if i fail i can just kite and use the same chain again. Only thing that is EXTREMELY <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> are perma stealth rogues that can just throw daggers at you and no matter how much you dodge or run they will always pop either leashing to finish the job or ITC to get you when you are unable to even hurt them. Oh yeah and those 1234124124124K GS GFs that just jump at you 1 or 2 shotting you, even the ones that are a complete failure can lock you down till someone else finish you off while you lay on the ground without even being able to move.
Yeah, right man. I cannot stand against a rogue in perma stealth, regardless if I go Unstop. Some GWFs have feats set that make it more powerful when they heal, which trust me, still doesn't stop 3 or 4 enemy players on you at once, so we are far from OP now or unbalanced. It added the necessary balance, I found, to the class, and made it feel more possible to pose a challenge in PvP and present something to the party. I still get one-shotted and annoying by hopping TRs all the time, it's just how it is, but the Unstop thing has helped me to pose challenge at least some of the time to some of these stellar players. Definitely not OP at all.
This is player fail, not system fail. YOU are responsible if WE get determination. YOU decide to gang up on GWF 5 vs 1? Then LIVE with the consequences. Kill us 1on1 and you won't see a full determination bar every 2 seconds.
This, something else is that Unstoppable doesn't just "come on" for no reason. I have my character set so my bar goes full after getting hit a few times, so I sit there and take it and then go Unstop to take out a few as they kill me off. It also activates if I'm hitting enough in a certain amount of time, which isn't easy in PvP where parties are smaller than add groups in dungeons. Some just work it better.
This is player fail, not system fail. YOU are responsible if WE get determination. YOU decide to gang up on GWF 5 vs 1? Then LIVE with the consequences.
I respect your honesty as a gwf player admitting the class can fight 1v5, but i think you just talked yourself into a class nerf with that outburst.
Most likely pwe will reduce the speed that determination is gained.
I got 60 TR and 60 gwf both pvp spec with regen\sentinel\36khp etc... gwf is such a troll... at the beginning of the match go to enemy base and watch then bring at least 3 ppl to CHASE u away from the node... i'm not talking about killing... that's out of the question TR is more fun thou... kinda sneaky ninja ****
Carnage TR Dragon shard - retired? hell yea it's retired along with Nevewinter
I respect your honesty as a gwf player admitting the class can fight 1v5, but i think you just talked yourself into a class nerf with that outburst.
Most likely pwe will reduce the speed that determination is gained.
Do you think, before you start posting?
Determination is gained pretty slowly, if you would be able to comprehend his former post you would realize how or why sometimes the meter fills up very fast, especially in pvp (where the cool kids go 3vs1 4vs1 etc.) I like it, this sort of prevents little rogues and wizards from feeling great about ganging up on people, especially premades vs PUG's. It is always nice to see some shed tears, when the PUG wins. On a sidenote, all it takes to prevent a GWF from popping unstoppable is a knockback/down/cc. This cannot be that hard to understand, can it?
Another effective way to go against a GWF is 1on1. One would assume, that it makes sense (dmg raises the determination meter) to not fight a GWF with more than one character, since it makes the GWF get unstoppable. And unstoppable is called U N S T O P P A B L E for a reason, too... i guess.
Idk if i should give you the standard L2P, phrase now...
P.S. PWE isn't going to nerf anything. PWE is the publisher, not the developing studio.
This is player fail, not system fail. YOU are responsible if WE get determination. YOU decide to gang up on GWF 5 vs 1? Then LIVE with the consequences. Kill us 1on1 and you won't see a full determination bar every 2 seconds.
Besides, it is just normal that the bad TR and CW are complaining now. They've started to realize, that the good players switched from OP to underdog roles long ago already and the only ones left playing easy mode are not as great at it aparently.
This is the real reason, why you are getting kind of "overwhelmed" by a skill -> lack of adaptability.
I hope this helped.
Peace.
So stupid I wont even bother to answer, I think peoples bellow you alreayd did.
This is player fail, not system fail. YOU are responsible if WE get determination. YOU decide to gang up on GWF 5 vs 1? Then LIVE with the consequences. Kill us 1on1 and you won't see a full determination bar every 2 seconds.
How is that fair to any other class? I want the same Superhero mode on my DC and CW, gods know i always need it, beeing ganged as number one target and all. So no that is not a valid excuse, try again.
Besides, it is just normal that the bad TR and CW are complaining now. They've started to realize, that the good players switched from OP to underdog roles long ago already and the only ones left playing easy mode are not as great at it aparently.
Gear dose not equal skill. If you face roll someone with two hits its not them lacking skills its them lacking gear. CW was never a skilles class, it takes good timing to be good with the squishiest even if you are geared class. Neither is TR - its just easier to pick up on with minimum responsibility in some dungeons. As someone said above GWFs are the troll class right now that rotates around a single ability. Its fail in design, same as DC with Astral Shield.
This is the real reason, why you are getting kind of "overwhelmed" by a skill -> lack of adaptability.
You know in any MMO its Gear>skill. Neverwinter is no exception. I guess its right since the main focus is PvE and PvP is a side activity from which company can make money, since not many people like to loose. Any points about MOBAS that might be mentioned are moot, those are strictly PvP games, they do not work the same as MMOs and no a MMO cant survive on costume items alone.
That said - Sentinel tree needs to be looked in to and give us gear score based Team VS Team.
Comments
Are you utterly <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>? Of course I know what soulforged is, and you thinking I didn't knew makes me think you don't know much from that game if you consider that "advanced" knowledge that you think you're sharing with anybody.
It has an internal cooldown of 10s. Personnaly I prefer darks to tenebrous. But that's just personnal preference.
Not even that. And I'm stacking all of what you said. Still can barely get thru. I do damage them, but the casting time is so long they that if I take the time to cast it, they can start their combo and kill me.
Yay feet at the beggining of a tree. The reason you're not hitting them is because you're obvious. If you thought for a second, and I'm giving you an advice here: Don't cast your spell right away, go towards them, just give them a hit or w/e and as soon as they teleport, because they will as soon as you get close, just cast that thing which i can't remember the name, but it's a ranged <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that immobilize. Then you can 1 hit them if you got any gear at all.
Yes, 2 seconds (on a high constant damage output) but the defence and AC just eats up so much of the damage, it looks like nothing.
Actually they also build some from dealing damage if they have the feat. And taking a little damage, to heal yourself after by and becoming hulk isn't a big trade off.
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GO and level a GWF to 60. Spend 50-100k on some t1 2/2 set pieces and start pvping. Read up on a proper PVP build. Once you have experienced a couple weeks of that then you will no longer feel that GWF is OP considering your main is a TR.
I understand the frustration. Just giving you some sound advice in how to master your PVP experience.
If there is a class that you are constantly losing to then your best bet is to study the class by playing it and you will understand the strengths and weaknesses and capitalize on opportunities when the arise.
In all fairness this is a catch-22. IF you don't comment on what your GS is, then people will respond with "clearly you're not geared and should expect to constantly be curbstomped." If you do post your GS, then people respond with "you have no clue what that means." So either way it can be used to dismiss someone's post. I would respectfully suggest that it's better to post it and a bit about the way they're geared so that people have a bit more context.
I cant believe that someone as a rogue is crying about GWFs.
Forgot to add the stupid perma stealth thingy and all the other tricks they have at their disposal to use. Just read your skills and try to figure some combos. Not everything is button mashing the keyboard as if you were DPSing the brain dead AI from bosses at dungeons.
You are like those PvP repel mages that complain about how OP other classes are and they slot repel for PvP.
Pls...
If there is something <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in PvP is the prone duration from GF attacks+the insane burst damage they have. The rest its just fine.
I can agree with you that CW has a difficult time against GWF. I can pop Unstoppable while being lifted or dragged, so I can pretty easily escape a CWs control. OTOH, I can't hit Unstoppable while prone or dazed, so TRs and GFs have a much easier time stunlocking me.
Sure, Unstoppable is great. However, improving it involves tradeoffs. Getting the 5% heal requires 5 points in the Instigator tree. Getting the Determination boost from dealing damage requires completing the entire Destroyer tree. Getting the "super-durability" requires a moderate to substantial commitment to the Sentinel tree and a specific type of gear. Getting the extra 10% heal over 10s when using Unstoppable requires a specific T1 pvp gear set which is weaker than several other set choices. Any given GWF will have some of these things, but no GWF can have all of them.
It is a good but not a perfect CC defense. For example, I'm almost NEVER Unstoppable when a fight starts, so in 1v1 I often have to eat chain-CC to the face and take 10k - 30k damage before I can do anything. Avoiding that requires split-second timing, careful estimation of ranges and a little bit of trickery, which is hard (skill vs. skill, which we all like, right?). When entering a big 3v3+ furball around a point, if 2 good players with knockdown/daze happen to pick me as their first target, I'll be dead (or down to maybe 10% health) before I can stand up and pop Unstoppable. GWF vs GWF is also difficult; Weapon Master Strike+Flourish+Takedown+Indomitable Battle Strike+Crescendo from a destroyer-spec GWF deals a lot of damage and doesn't allow Unstoppable unless the attacker screws up his timing. In other words, there are common situations in which Unstoppable does not grant me a free win and I have to play skillfully for my kills.
Regarding inability to kill GWFs who run away, I also am confused about this. My experience is that even with Bravery for +15% run speed, a TR or CW can usually dodge/port/whatever fast enough that it is non-trivial for me to catch them before they stealth or run to friends who can protect them. If 3 of 5 classes are good at escaping, is it really a GWF-OP thing or more of a feature-of-the-game thing?
My main is a DC, and my favorite pvp is my PVP CW. I barely play if not my TR, I find it extremely boring.
You don't need to be fully feated to deal a lot of damage, a sentinel with 5 points into the healing feat can 5 points to spend w/e can easily last forever. The problem is, GWF are so tanky it's nearly impossible without some lucky crits to get them before they go unstoppable.
Most gwf's are kind of stupid and that plays for us CW, they cast their spells in obvious matters, kind of like rogues. But a fine GWF can easily overtrow any class. Because even if you time your stuff perfectly, there's always that split second where you can clic it. And you regenerate ennough health during that time to be able to tank more spells, which gives you back the...
It's like an endless chain.
GWF are definetly best at escaping, next to TR. A tr can always be chased because you somehow know where it goes or you can put spells or skills on them to be able to follow them a little. GWF will run at super speed without being affected by anything, pop your mount around a corner and you're gone. If you get teamed on before you can use unstoppable, you will die. But otherwise, a well geared GWF can tank 3 peoples easily in Unstoppable.
The problem isn't mostly the fact that unstoppable is too strong in itself, there just needs to be a cooldown. 3-4 seconds would make me happy. giving an actual window. The current window is 3 basic attack, not far ennough, it pops too quickly back up. And the temp HP will just soak up the extra damage.
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Equating class balance in an MMO video game (with hundreds and thousands of variables to consider), to a simplistic game of rock-paper-scissors is completely disingenuous and laughable at best. It's false reductionism and a pseudo-intellectual way of looking at things. Believe it or not, there is such a thing as nuance, stick with arguing the facts please.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Good form, kind sir!
Black and white only exists in kids comic books or the head of a close minded fool.
The world is a delightful shade of grey- hazy, indistinct grey
Back on topic, i cant believe no one has mentioned the worst, most annoying gwf bug- sometimes there **** "surround you with clones and knock you prone" move follows around for the whole match. Idk what triggers it, but once it happens that animation will go off randomly for the rest of the match.
Its spooky and frightens the hell outta my poor cw, who is developing a severe case of paranoia over it. **** gwfs are always watching- always waiting.
/nod /10char
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QFT. If I burn my sprint getting close to a CW, I can't chase him when he ports. If I save it, it takes me forever to run up to him and get knocked back several times, and by the time I'm fighting him his friends are targeting me too and I have to use sprint to bail out. Half the time another GWF sprints to follow me, or somebody mounts and chases after me, and I can't mount because I have a bleed on me or someone is shooting me at extreme range, and I get knocked down by my pursuer and have to turn and fight (and lose). CW rarely gets the kill in these situations, but he shuts me down. Now, if the CW is sloppy or on cooldown, or if he's slotted the wrong spells, I'll get the drop on him. But I've never experienced the feeling of "yeah man, I've got Unstoppable, easy kills!"
If a GWF uses restoring strike, its a very obvious move. It also is not really the best choice, because its damage is lower and it heals based of the damage done. So believe me, my lifesteal/lifedrinker on higher damage acts is WAY more desirable.
As far as Immune - we are not immune. We have a damage reduction. We do have some VERY short immunes, but off of dailies or other things. Shall we talk about your rogues six second immunity catch me if you can?
All classes have an immune function somewhere. IMO things like catch me if you can should be what they are designed for - defense. That means you dont pop it and start to attack. Attack should be shut off if you choose to try to get away.
Do that on all classes and believe me we will be one step closer to balance. BTW I play TR too, so I know what I am talking about in those two classes.
Why are you so fixated on the fact that my main is a TR.... it's the character I play the least
Whatever that lifesteal is, it's too much while you're in unstoppable. Either that either introduce a small inner cooldown
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Please. Learn to play. Please.
To be fair, the TR used courage breaker there which will slow (it's nearly a root) a GWF during unstoppable which is probably a bug. It could be working as intended but I kind of doubt it. GWF can't do much when he has the courage breaker debuff on him unless your silly enough to stand next to him.
No, Courage Breaker goes through any immunity. It's a wonderfully underutilized Daily, but alas, there just isn't space for it. I can (if I'm fortunately) kill two with Lurker's Assault (Impact Shot + Lashing Blade), and one with SE. There just ins't space.
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ITC is 5 seconds if it's maxed out. If you use the stealth version of that skill, 5 seconds of complete immunity to ANYTHING is very powerful. If you have CD reducing stats and stealth recovery abilities/feats, that skill is EXTREMELY power. I'm not going to say it's OP, but it's definitely one of the best utility encounters in the game if not the best utility encounter.
Courage breaker IS an underrated skill. I use it a lot and many people that are its prey are "OMG, wtf did that TR just do to me? I have a 90% damage reduction and 90% movement debuff that lasts for 7 seconds?!" This skill is useful against ANY class if done right.
Without their encounters a GWF is pretty useless. And their big pvp encounters - takedown, battle strike, and flourish -have huge telegraphic animations...
Now consider you have a bunch of dodges.
Here's your free protip: When you see the animation, teleport.
There ya go.
Bill's Tavern | The 27th Level | Secret Agent 34
And this is why ANY TR crying about ANY other class, should shut up, read their skills and feats and learn to play.
But no, its easier to say, OH NO certain class is OP pls nerf... come on.. seriously...
And yeah, sorry if im being too rude or aggressive, its just it hits me really hard to see someone playing a class with soo many variants and "exploits" (perma stealth pls, vorpal +1 hit leashing pls, immunity spell... and i can keep it going ) to complain about others. Its obviously that no matter what your GS is or your experience in the game you still have a lot to learn.
BTW im a CW and i have NEVER had a problem with GWFs i can kill them in 1 rotation and if i fail i can just kite and use the same chain again. Only thing that is EXTREMELY <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> are perma stealth rogues that can just throw daggers at you and no matter how much you dodge or run they will always pop either leashing to finish the job or ITC to get you when you are unable to even hurt them. Oh yeah and those 1234124124124K GS GFs that just jump at you 1 or 2 shotting you, even the ones that are a complete failure can lock you down till someone else finish you off while you lay on the ground without even being able to move.
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This, something else is that Unstoppable doesn't just "come on" for no reason. I have my character set so my bar goes full after getting hit a few times, so I sit there and take it and then go Unstop to take out a few as they kill me off. It also activates if I'm hitting enough in a certain amount of time, which isn't easy in PvP where parties are smaller than add groups in dungeons. Some just work it better.
I respect your honesty as a gwf player admitting the class can fight 1v5, but i think you just talked yourself into a class nerf with that outburst.
Most likely pwe will reduce the speed that determination is gained.
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
Do you think, before you start posting?
Determination is gained pretty slowly, if you would be able to comprehend his former post you would realize how or why sometimes the meter fills up very fast, especially in pvp (where the cool kids go 3vs1 4vs1 etc.) I like it, this sort of prevents little rogues and wizards from feeling great about ganging up on people, especially premades vs PUG's. It is always nice to see some shed tears, when the PUG wins. On a sidenote, all it takes to prevent a GWF from popping unstoppable is a knockback/down/cc. This cannot be that hard to understand, can it?
Another effective way to go against a GWF is 1on1. One would assume, that it makes sense (dmg raises the determination meter) to not fight a GWF with more than one character, since it makes the GWF get unstoppable. And unstoppable is called U N S T O P P A B L E for a reason, too... i guess.
Idk if i should give you the standard L2P, phrase now...
P.S. PWE isn't going to nerf anything. PWE is the publisher, not the developing studio.
Seeya :rolleyes:
So stupid I wont even bother to answer, I think peoples bellow you alreayd did.
Here for the build+guide
How is that fair to any other class? I want the same Superhero mode on my DC and CW, gods know i always need it, beeing ganged as number one target and all. So no that is not a valid excuse, try again.
Gear dose not equal skill. If you face roll someone with two hits its not them lacking skills its them lacking gear. CW was never a skilles class, it takes good timing to be good with the squishiest even if you are geared class. Neither is TR - its just easier to pick up on with minimum responsibility in some dungeons. As someone said above GWFs are the troll class right now that rotates around a single ability. Its fail in design, same as DC with Astral Shield.
You know in any MMO its Gear>skill. Neverwinter is no exception. I guess its right since the main focus is PvE and PvP is a side activity from which company can make money, since not many people like to loose. Any points about MOBAS that might be mentioned are moot, those are strictly PvP games, they do not work the same as MMOs and no a MMO cant survive on costume items alone.
That said - Sentinel tree needs to be looked in to and give us gear score based Team VS Team.