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Restricted "Need" rolls - BoP required!
masu84
Member Posts: 134 Bounty Hunter
Hi again. Because of the stupidness of most users im restarting the old thread. hopefully the stupid people will not post their weird poor comments here...
Old situation:
Everyone could roll need on everything. This way there were these "ninja looters", but the chance to get a very good item (even just for selling it) was 25% - for everyone!
Then most noobs started crying because a 25% chance was to low in their opinion. They cried that much that the developers changed the loot system in a very stupid way:
Since a few weeks only a TR is able to roll "need" on TR items. All in all this sounds great to most people, because most people seems to be unable to understand the issue of the actual system. Let me explain it:
A group is entering a dungeon. there is a small chance of getting an very good and expensive item for TR. A dagger. price: few millions AD. The TR is already wearing this dagger or got a better one. No other TR is in the group. Well, the dagger drops (unbelieveable) and everyone in the group just want to sell the dagger. Everyone is just able to roll "greed". The TR is able to roll need and got a 100% chance for getting the item.
Why should any class enter a dungeon which is providing the chance of a very expensive drop for another class?! Even if nobody really needs the item: there is one class which has a 100% chance to get the item.
Well, some people said: "other classes have a 100% chance to get their items!". Main problem: Some items (especially TR items) are very(!) expensive. Classes which got less expensive gear are getting less AD in lategame content. And: most dungeons have a chance to drop Item XY. A cleric in a dungeon without any chance for a good item? Why should the cleric waste his time for helping the others in getting rich?!
Ninja looting has just been changed. If the ninja looter got the correct class, he has a 100% chance to get the expensive item instead of 25%!
My solution:
i told it few weeks ago and ill say it again:
In case that NEED rolls are only available for a class depending to the item restrictions, all NEED rolls MUST result in BoP. Otherwise some classes getting huge advantige. In case of BoP for need rolls, only that players will roll need, which fit the class condition AND want to wear that item. All the people who just want to sell the item must use "GREED".
Well, i think there will be only one thing which is able to beat the stupidness of the current lootsystem:
The answers ill get from other users :x
Old situation:
Everyone could roll need on everything. This way there were these "ninja looters", but the chance to get a very good item (even just for selling it) was 25% - for everyone!
Then most noobs started crying because a 25% chance was to low in their opinion. They cried that much that the developers changed the loot system in a very stupid way:
Since a few weeks only a TR is able to roll "need" on TR items. All in all this sounds great to most people, because most people seems to be unable to understand the issue of the actual system. Let me explain it:
A group is entering a dungeon. there is a small chance of getting an very good and expensive item for TR. A dagger. price: few millions AD. The TR is already wearing this dagger or got a better one. No other TR is in the group. Well, the dagger drops (unbelieveable) and everyone in the group just want to sell the dagger. Everyone is just able to roll "greed". The TR is able to roll need and got a 100% chance for getting the item.
Why should any class enter a dungeon which is providing the chance of a very expensive drop for another class?! Even if nobody really needs the item: there is one class which has a 100% chance to get the item.
Well, some people said: "other classes have a 100% chance to get their items!". Main problem: Some items (especially TR items) are very(!) expensive. Classes which got less expensive gear are getting less AD in lategame content. And: most dungeons have a chance to drop Item XY. A cleric in a dungeon without any chance for a good item? Why should the cleric waste his time for helping the others in getting rich?!
Ninja looting has just been changed. If the ninja looter got the correct class, he has a 100% chance to get the expensive item instead of 25%!
My solution:
i told it few weeks ago and ill say it again:
In case that NEED rolls are only available for a class depending to the item restrictions, all NEED rolls MUST result in BoP. Otherwise some classes getting huge advantige. In case of BoP for need rolls, only that players will roll need, which fit the class condition AND want to wear that item. All the people who just want to sell the item must use "GREED".
Well, i think there will be only one thing which is able to beat the stupidness of the current lootsystem:
The answers ill get from other users :x
No leaver penality in PvP!
And here is the reason:
And here is the reason:
ghostravyn wrote: »If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
Post edited by masu84 on
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This whole post is silly. A huge majority of the stuff being sold is actually loot gained from DD chests since the bosses almost always drop <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> loot. So I don't even get why so many cry about need or greed.
I say get rid of the need or greed and just put in ROLL or PASS. Everyone who wants it click roll for it and everyone who doesn't care use PASS. Is it so hard? We don't need any of this BoP <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
In ddo every one running raids rolled on their loot and it seemed to work fine. If you wanted it, you rolled for it, even if it wasn't for your class or if you wanted to sell it. You rolled. Let the server and fate determine who gets rich or would gets an item upgrade.
So can we stop crying about need or greed yet?
If they did this, the game would die. *FACT*
They have already considered implementing BoP and they came to the same conclusion I did.
Yea full BoP sucks, but: restricting need rolls without adding BoP for need rolls will be a huge advantige for some classes. They changed the loot system to stop ninja looting (so that the babies wont cry any more ...) but the changes did not change anything about ninja looting in a positive way. Well i think ninja looting has been improved.
And here is the reason:
You think that was silly, look at the original...
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?383092-Cant-roll-quot-need-quot-on-items-i-cant-wear-!
Dorlin: Level 65 GF/2nd Account: Calias/62
Elkysium: Level 65 CW/2nd Account: Krystalyn/62
Artemis: Level 65 TR/2nd Account: Fayne/62
Zantoth: Level 65 DC/2nd Account: Nemea/62
Kryndar: Level 65 HR/2nd Account: Lilith/62
Goreb: Level 65 GWF/2nd Account: Tysha/62
Bamidor: Level 65 OP/2nd Account: Valindra/62
Or the opposite since people would need long time to get their gear instead of getting it all same day they level up to 60 then saying they bored and got nothing to do and quit. Still I hate BoP <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> also... I hate any bounding of items. So I'm undecided which is the better option.
To OP: some people would still roll need then sell it to npc for gold :P
That is such an elegant solution.
Need roll = Bind on Pickup
Greed roll = Bind on Equip.
I still prefer the solution of scrapping the whole Need/Greed system and auto rolling for every item, the need/greed system has no business existing in a game where items bind on equip and I dislike bind on pickup.
Totally agreed. Especially since I was one of the people asking for this from the beginning of *cough* Open Beta *cough*...
Well, I and some others have suggested that any NEEDed items become not merely BoP but also unsellable.
It seems like everyone is trying to justify or deal with a bad system. Why not just go for the win?
And once we start seeing raids in this game we can have BOP gear. Also in that game everyone gets their own pull on the chest. The player gets to decide if they want to pass it to someone who can use it or make people roll at all - there isn't a forced roll.
if you want item for tr to sell it to AH use tr to run dungeons its just that simple
ninja looter? bop or BOE doesnt matter they will still need and just sell it to npc
the boss droped a very expensive TR dagger wtf im a cw i cant ninja it no chance to get it bec we have a tr they should change need to BOP so no one will benefit from boss drops
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
I think they should invest on balancing the class, not making the loot harder to sell. As for Ninja looters, they're always going be some people out there looking to exploit. Doesn't mean everyone has to suffer, because someone did that. As soon as you see a leader changing loot system rules, simply leave the group.
You're essentially asking Cryptic to change something in the loot system because of how the AH market fluctuates.
No thank you. This obsessive need to make everyone earn the same amount all the time is a slippery slope.
Cryptic, please keep things as they are, no BoP for need roll items.
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD
I prefer the new system
It always amuses me how some people (usually those gaining from it) have the gall to argue that a perfectly fair system, namely BoP on NEED, BoE for GREED can be seen as an issue.
But I think Cryptic will do something about this as it is in their best interests. After all if only certain DPS classes get the best rewards and hence AD the number of people willing to play other classes ESPECIALLY DCs will plummet. And less DCs means less endgame runs which means less players which means less profit.....
It is the New way of dealing with loot in an M.M.O, make all loot bind on equip. Cryptic doesn't need to borrow loot rules from other games like World of Warcraft, or Rift, or any other M.M.O for that mater that uses the same loot rules. They need to create their own unique loot rules. Which is what they sort of done, they allow players to roll Need on items that are usable for their class and everything else is Greed.
With this system in place it allows players to sale All gear in the game, which is something very much needed to keep the game functioning the way it does right now. Instead of using an old outdated model like other M.M.O's that restrict players from selling Epic items on a Auction House, Cryptic has raised the bar to a higher level by giving players the ability (at level 60) to go ahead and buy all their Best gear from the Ah.
This helps the gaming community out in a few ways.
1) Once you reach level 60 and if you have the AD you can bypass having to even set foot in any dungeon because you can skip on over to your Auction House and buy all your gear including weapons. I've actually (I was bored) sat and calculated the cost of buying best in slot gear and so far to do so for my cleric it would cost me 1.8 Million Ad. That does not include enchants, or any other extras, it only included the weapon and full tier 2 set.
2) It helps to keep the Economy moving, if Cryptic were to use an out dated Method that's being used by other M.M.O games we as players would be restricted to never being able to Buy any Tier sets off the Ah. We would only be able to buy the non tier set items as well as off pieces with AD, which would then require players to have to run Dungeons for their tier sets. The idea of running dungeons with other players for any gear is confusing, but for Tier items and best in slot weapons seems harsh.
3) Just the mere thought of loot being Bind on Pick up for tier set items and weapons scares me. It hurts my heart, to think we may be headed (in some way) to a Bind on Pick up model, that's being used By less successful M.M.O companies out there. All gear in this game needs to remain Bind on equip. This way you do not restrict players from being able to choose weather they want to participate in group activities (Running Dungeons) or spend Astral Diamonds to buy All their gear from the Auction House.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
Old situation: An item drops for the trickster rogue I greed it goes to the rogue. An item drops for the cleric (me), but the ninjalooting rogue needs aswell and I see my item pass before my eyes.
Your logic is flawed in that Astral diamonds is not the reason people were annoyed. They were annoyed becuase people ninja'd the items they needed (and possibly the whole reason they joined that dungeon) away from them.
It is also flawed becuase trickster rogue items are more expensive because there are a bunchload of tricksterrogues out there. This means getting into that dungeon is going to be a lot harder for the rogue then for almost any other class.
Sure the tricksterrogue might be better for earning astral diamonds through AH, but that annoys only a very small amount of people and it is quite easy to make a second character that is a trickster rogue if it does bother you that much.
I think the new system is a great improvement. Not saying it's perfect, but binding on pickup in any form just leads to other annoyances so that isn't a perfect system either.
I agree with this way of logic. Any thing Cryptic does too restrict players from being able to sale/purchase, Gear from the Auction House is going to hurt this game a lot. We don't need to restrict end game epic gear from being sold, or bought off the Auction house (eliminating any reason to run dungeons) what we need to do is increase it.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
I actually like this Idea, because it doesn't restrict players from being able to Buy their Entire gear from the Auction House. We need to continue to move forward in this game using this Unique Bind on Equip model for ALL gear as apposed to an outdated Model being used by other M.M.O's.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
Those gaining from it? My main is level 17. I'm mostly a Foundry author. But from my guildmates, videos, etc. I know of end game DD and the problems facing it right. So I have nothing to gain from it.
BoP on Need has nothing to do with being a "fair system". Instead it has everything to do with taking something out of the player economy.
If a player already has all of their end-game gear from running dungeons, then they would have a much diminished reason for running dungeons. Meaning less PUGing and less guild running. And worse, fewer items to sell or buy on the AH. Overall the OP's proposal of BoP on Need would damage the Neverwinter community more than it would help.
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD
Which is why the item remains BoE on Greed so that people with the best gear can then sell it provided no-one else in the group actually needs it.....
AND it's not good enough for you?