test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
[Discussion] T1 dungeons are unnecessary at this point in the game due to the AH.
lobstersaurusbla
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 6 Arc User
Currently, there are several tiers of dungeons, which I'll post in short form here.
Epic Dungeon
Gearscore
Cloak Tower, Cragmire Crypts
5700
Lair of the Mad Dragon, Throne of Idris, Grey Wolf Den
6800
Pirate King, Frozen Heart, Spellplague, Temple of the Spider, Karrundax, Dread Vault
8300
Castle Never
9200
Since my main is a GWF I will mainly address from that class's point of view, but other classes should be similar.
A fresh 60 with all green gear has about 5000ish gear score (or so). Through buying cheap blues on the Auction House (AH), you can go to 6000 or likely even 6800 straight out of the door through the AD gained from leveling up (around 50k in my playthrough with some still left over). As the game has progressed to this point, many people are at the T2 stage which can be achieved from the AH for approximately 50-100k astral diamonds or through obtaining PVP gear, etc. The queue for T1 dungeons is outrageous at this point, often taking 45 minutes without finding a group. The quick solution to this is to keep 2 T1 dungeons (say Cloak Tower and Cragmire) and bump the gearscore to 6300 or so. Change the rest of the T1 dungeons to T2 (this is easy, just scale the levels to 65 and scale health accordingly). This would decrease queue times and allow new 60s to experience dungeons with other players. (Also scale skirmishes to 60 please)
On the other hand, I believe there is a larger problem with loot drops themselves. If you look in the Auction House for GWF mainhand swords, here are the 4 best GWF swords available with lowest price - Beholder shard.
Sharpened Ice Axe - 5k AD
769-941 dmg
1344 power
270 recovery
270 arpen
225 regen
Berserk Champion's Greatsword - 200k AD
787-962 dmg
1654 power
279 crit
126 recovery
126 deflect
Valiant Duelist - 400k AD
787-962 dmg
1654 power
279 crit
126 arpen
126 def
Ancient Castle Champion's - 930k AD
805-984 dmg
1690 power
284 crit
133 recovery
133 deflect
As you can see, the last three swords are pretty much the same thing although the Ancient Castle Champion's gets a set bonus (+450 crit) when paired with its sword knot. The problem is that there is no random loot rolls (unlike Diablo) so there's no point in farming items when you get the exact same item as everyone else, down to the stats. The T1 market is oversaturated already with thousands of the same item which now go for hundreds or a couple thousands of AD on the auction house because they're not worth anything when a T2 item is clearly better. Solution? Add random loot rolls, and allow high rolled T1s to roll to low T2 level. This would give people a reason to farm T1 (faster dungeon, more drops) while still giving better gear. This solution wouldn't require rescaling dungeons, but would have to have a large revamp of the loot system which is probably infeasible.
Epic Dungeon
Gearscore
Cloak Tower, Cragmire Crypts
5700
Lair of the Mad Dragon, Throne of Idris, Grey Wolf Den
6800
Pirate King, Frozen Heart, Spellplague, Temple of the Spider, Karrundax, Dread Vault
8300
Castle Never
9200
Since my main is a GWF I will mainly address from that class's point of view, but other classes should be similar.
A fresh 60 with all green gear has about 5000ish gear score (or so). Through buying cheap blues on the Auction House (AH), you can go to 6000 or likely even 6800 straight out of the door through the AD gained from leveling up (around 50k in my playthrough with some still left over). As the game has progressed to this point, many people are at the T2 stage which can be achieved from the AH for approximately 50-100k astral diamonds or through obtaining PVP gear, etc. The queue for T1 dungeons is outrageous at this point, often taking 45 minutes without finding a group. The quick solution to this is to keep 2 T1 dungeons (say Cloak Tower and Cragmire) and bump the gearscore to 6300 or so. Change the rest of the T1 dungeons to T2 (this is easy, just scale the levels to 65 and scale health accordingly). This would decrease queue times and allow new 60s to experience dungeons with other players. (Also scale skirmishes to 60 please)
On the other hand, I believe there is a larger problem with loot drops themselves. If you look in the Auction House for GWF mainhand swords, here are the 4 best GWF swords available with lowest price - Beholder shard.
Sharpened Ice Axe - 5k AD
769-941 dmg
1344 power
270 recovery
270 arpen
225 regen
Berserk Champion's Greatsword - 200k AD
787-962 dmg
1654 power
279 crit
126 recovery
126 deflect
Valiant Duelist - 400k AD
787-962 dmg
1654 power
279 crit
126 arpen
126 def
Ancient Castle Champion's - 930k AD
805-984 dmg
1690 power
284 crit
133 recovery
133 deflect
As you can see, the last three swords are pretty much the same thing although the Ancient Castle Champion's gets a set bonus (+450 crit) when paired with its sword knot. The problem is that there is no random loot rolls (unlike Diablo) so there's no point in farming items when you get the exact same item as everyone else, down to the stats. The T1 market is oversaturated already with thousands of the same item which now go for hundreds or a couple thousands of AD on the auction house because they're not worth anything when a T2 item is clearly better. Solution? Add random loot rolls, and allow high rolled T1s to roll to low T2 level. This would give people a reason to farm T1 (faster dungeon, more drops) while still giving better gear. This solution wouldn't require rescaling dungeons, but would have to have a large revamp of the loot system which is probably infeasible.
Post edited by lobstersaurusbla on
0
Comments
Personally I hope the Feywild expansion will introduce that much needed fresh content to NW, at least for a week or two.
timeless hero sword
7 million ad
ggggggggggggggg
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
I fully agree with this point. However since many players' main source of income is the loot from dungeon runs (if they don't want to grind foundry/pvp or don't have lvl 20 leadership already), they often feel that a run where everyone wipes before the boss is worthless, especially during DD. Perhaps scaling up skirmishes and increasing other rewards (making chest drops more useful) would encourage exploration. I've noticed an increasing number of players ragequit in pug dungeons, which is quite annoying after you've spent an hour or more on an epic and can't complete the boss/receive DD loot without all of the players.
In minecraft, you are rewarded for exploring. You dig around and find a diamond vein, or you wander around the nether and find a nether dungeon with loot. In neverwinter, you are not rewarded for exploring. You explore a dungeon and you are rewarded with trash mobs that drop nothing. all value is so heavily focused on dungeon delves and getting to that last boss that everything else is insignificant
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
What server are you on? I and many of my guild mates love doing the same thing
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
And it's not always about rushing through. I haven't seen CN, and Dread Vault is exactly what it sounds like. A vault of dread with the broken fires. Actually running dungeons is fun. Taking time is fun. But, you can't take time when everyone wants to blow through to get the gear from the chest, that is on a six hour or so timer. Many players see no reason to run dungeons unless DD is up. So, those players don't run, and it makes it harder for those of us that DO want to run dungeons at any time, to do that.
Yesterday, i've queued for karrundax without a premade team, right before the end of the DD event. I've been kicked from the group because i was killing all mobs on the way and didn't take any shortcut. Of course it happened after someone aggroed the first boss, thus they got no replacement. It's amazing to see how much people can agree to waste a DD run if it's not something they can exploit.
The best moment to "force" randoms to explore is queueing 5 mins before the end of the DD, because they know they have to deal with you. If they get angry, don't answer in chat, they will think you're a **** and won't bother checking your gear anyway.
With this trick i've been able to fully explore most dungeons except CN. There are a lot of secret mini bosses. Too bad most of them drop no seals and blue <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> no one wants because it doesn't even have a unique skin. Have you ever been to the secret boss in Karrundax? Do you guys even know where all the secret chests and nodes are? If not, then, queue 10 minutes before the end of DD, don't rush and take your time. :cool:
Yet its not easy as it sounds. Each item of gear roughly cost at least 5 enchanted keys. The company profits when I buy the keys, the person I'm buying from profits from getting the keys. I profit from getting the gear. You can buy almost anything in game already, bag space, companion, boost in profession.
This is just complaining from elite few that wish to walk around boasting in their T2 gear, how they are the greatest thing in the world. I like Bind on Equip. It lets those who want spend time to, get the gear. It also equally allows a chance for those willing to pay to obtain gear.
Why does that bother you so much, are you worried you won't be a special snowflake.
I have no need to boast...it's just a game.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
/sarcasm off
This is why we need T1 dungeons. People need those easier places to learn how their classes work best with others. Take a CW and a GWF in a group. Most CW's will singularity and then shield push the mobs all over the place. This leaves the GWF and the tank chasing singles instead of cleaving through the whole group. a CW who has a clue will singularity them, shield push while its going to build AP, then steal time to stun them when they land from the singularity, allowing the AOE classes to melt them down. Thats just one example of stuff I see when on the odd occasion we take a PUG to fill a shortage from a guild run. There are plenty out there for all classes.
In order to do this, you have to make T1 dungeons worthwhile. If you run T1 and KNOW that the item you are going to receive is inferior to a T2 item and will probably sell for maybe 10,000 AD max on the AH, there's no incentive to run (unless you're going for stalwart helm or something like that, with a low drop chance). With random loot rolls, there would be more of an incentive but with the quantized gear levels we have right now (T1, T2, T2.5) there's zero point in doing this. Maybe a requirement for new 60s would be doing the T1's a certain amount of times (new daily quest hmmmm) so they would learn mechanics.
Oh, right, forgot to say. I'm on Mindflayer.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia