I've seen foundries where the track path leads you nowhere, the only char with a sign above its head is a bartender who only says "I am the bartender", nothing is glowing except the door that brings you back to Protector Enclave.
Disable path and try something called "exploring"... It's fun!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] The entire campaign can be found here:NWS-DQS27OINC
Individual quests:
1. Heeding the Call - NW-DMJCDZ5XJ
2. Bored of the Rings - NW-DFWE3XR6W
3. Draconian Ways - NW-DUNZEJG2J
4. When All is Said and Done... - Look at the picture
0
cipher9nemoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Disable path and try something called "exploring"... It's fun!
QFT.
In the quest I'm working on I even force disable this (on an exterior map) by not using the map's ground at all. I start with a flat map and build from there. 1500 detail is enough to flesh out what I want.
On the other hand, then perhaps shut off the objective marker.
I've been experimenting with adding map markers using NPCs (under the floor on a platform) to help offer information/guidance without tying it to automatic pathing.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
0
cipher9nemoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
On the other hand, then perhaps shut off the objective marker.
I've been experimenting with adding map markers using NPCs (under the floor on a platform) to help offer information/guidance without tying it to automatic pathing.
That won't work on the final chest objective, at least to my knowledge. I disable objective points/areas on most of my stuff. There are a couple where it's useful or at least helpful and doesn't detract from the exploration factor, so I enable them on those (especially when it's confusing without it).
As for my NPCs, I have some where you need to search for them but I don't want them visible on the map. So I use Inspect Object instead, and have that object hidden, invisible, or part of the effects and have the player talk to the object instead of the NPC. If you do that, rename the object to match the desired NPC's name. The downside is that the camera obviously doesn't zoom in and you can't use NPC expressions/emotes. So it won't work for everyone's objectives or quests.
lol when i finish my quest(s), i'm going to switch off ALL pointers etc. If noobie foundry players want it "easy" then i'm not going to give it in my creations.
0
cipher9nemoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
lol when i finish my quest(s), i'm going to switch off ALL pointers etc. If noobie foundry players want it "easy" then i'm not going to give it in my creations.
Ah, mine doesn't work with a lot of my maps because the sparkly trail tends to follow the y-value of the terrain, so as soon as you go up or down from the base terrain, it vanishes below your "floor".
But as a player, I like following it too. I'm not really one for exploration maps. I like to have my story fed to me in a nice handheld linear railroaded fashion, like an interactive movie that I'm part of.
If that makes me a "noobie foundry player that wants it easy" then I guess I'm a "noobie foundry player that wants it easy"
Please sign my petition allowing authors to disable the map in order to force players to draw their own.
Mwhahaha!
Check out Adventuring College! A 20 minute male-centric comedic solo adventure.
Quest ID: NW-DPCZNUVQ7
0
cipher9nemoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
OP, you didn't list your quest so I have to search for them by your name, then I had to find which one had this bad review.
So I've played through and gave you 5 stars to balance out that stupid 1 star review.
I put my positive feedback in the review, so here's my negative feedback that's hopefully constructive to help you on other quests...
Please don't abuse the MissionInfo and OOC. It's peppered all over the place in what should be easy-reading dialog. I don't use the prescribed practice of what they're meant for either, but I do put them in paragraphs instead of highlighting every few words in each paragraph with them.
I don't like being forced into certain decisions. Examples: opening the tower door, not remembering the first NPC, etc. Let the player opt to exit the dialog or plan for those other choices. This only gives me the illusion of choice as you didn't really let me choose interactions of my own, you just forced me down your own path.
Way too many clicky items in single rooms. Create more rooms, let your player explore and roam a bit between clicky things. I spent like 5 minutes in one room, way too long.
What's with the "Abort Exits"? If your quest works you shouldn't need them, and if people really are stuck they won't look for an abort exit any ways.
For those who are familiar with AD&D and Neverwinter, you don't really need to go into long-winded details of existing lore/canon. just highlight on it. Examples: Description of Illithid in the book. It would be fine if it was random book laying around that wasn't part of a search for important clues when entering the tower.
Deific Dossiers: immersion breaking to talk about alignment, power level, etc. in a abook.
Some people like the inclusion of crafting-specific skill requirements. I hate them, as it's things I can't do because I don't have a skill. I don't use them in my quest, but then again probably a debatable topic. But what really gets me is the first item you did had for thievery and I can't grab his safe (1st painting). You obviously can't distribute chests on demand (they really restrict us), but you can at least RP finding a safe, tweaking it open, etc. At least you did well for the second painting.a
Not sure why I had to "mark" portals before using them other so that it helps me remember which ones I've used. Might have been easier just to let me use the map and recognize which junction I'm at by the portal types and map location instead.
A little more dialog for the Easter egg would have been nice as a reward instead of a bad pun.
Seeing the other locations in the distance isn't good. You might want to add a fog effect to restrict view of awkward objects for rooms in the distance.
Having loot drop in high weeds is annoying. Worse is when the area highlight sparkles are right where they drop, since I'm pulling the three groups separately. Remove the area marker for the objective and have the fight not in weeds. Allow us to pull them down the path, one by one.
I couldn't get all of my loot from mobs because my inventory was full with your 5 items. Please only use 1 or 2 items at a time. They're meant to be acquired, then consumed, and move on, not held through the entire quest unless only 1 or 2.
Knox graphically is a little buggy. Did you put two of them on top of each other? Or some odd outfit of advanced editing of a costume?
Even though your quest is story-driven, a few more encounters would have been nice. Perhaps one for each intersection with the portals in air.
The antagonist could have done without the excessive laughing dialog, a little over the top. I usually like to write antagonists that have a good, sound motive for what they're doing instead of just for power and the lolz. You want the player to understand them and hate them for it those reasons instead of just hating them because they're annoying.
Just honest feedback, not meant to be insulting or anything. I hope all of that helps.
Thank you for your review, but you're rather de-railing the thread. :P I've sent my comments to you via PM.
I am not derailing your thread. The thread is about your quest and the lousy rating someone gave it. What else is there to talk about here other than gripe about people who give worthless reviews?
While the guy that left that 1-star rating is obviously a ****** I don't think it's any of your business to PM him in-game and get him to explain himself. Like any creation you make available to the public you're going to receive criticism both good and bad... anyone that has uploaded videos on YouTube knows this.
All creation is subjective and what might be loved by some will always be hated by others. I agree there are issues with the rating system of the foundry but these issues apply to any rating system where people have to "score" something based on a scale.
What I'm trying to say is don't be too sensitive about your creation, take the good with the bad and the latter with a grain of salt and move on. You will sleep easier that way
0
xhritMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The phenomenon was first tested in a series of experiments performed by Dunning and Kruger. Dunning and Kruger noted earlier studies suggesting that ignorance of standards of performance is behind a great deal of incompetence. This pattern was seen in studies of skills as diverse as reading comprehension, operating a motor vehicle, and playing chess or tennis.
Dunning and Kruger proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:
1) tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
2) fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
3) fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy;
While the guy that left that 1-star rating is obviously a ****** I don't think it's any of your business to PM him in-game and get him to explain himself. Like any creation you make available to the public you're going to receive criticism both good and bad... anyone that has uploaded videos on YouTube knows this.
Dunning and Kruger proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:
1) tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
2) fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
3) fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy;
That all seems to be true here.
Get this...
So I help the OP out by running his quest to give it a 5 star rating. I post positive feedback in that rating, then post my negative/constructive feedback here as everyone here can see. He berates me for derailing the thread (as seen here), then sends me a defensive PM responding to each of my criticisms, arguing with them all.
I'm scratching my head on that one, everything I've done was to try to help him out. I see a pattern that starts with PMing a reviewer of his for a bad review. I guess he thinks his quest is perfect. Some people.
orodalfMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
He berates me for derailing the thread (as seen here)
The thread has indeed been derailed (though not really entirely by you). I also did not "berate" you. I merely suggested that we take the discussion elsewhere (with a friendly emoticon, at that). You brought it back to this thread, so I guess I'll continue to respond here.
Also,
That all seems to be true here.
is quite insulting to me. I do not fail to recognized genuine skill in others. I like a good quest as much as the next person, and the reviews I do generally reflect this in extended verbosity. Whether I overestimate my level of skill/fail to recognize the extremity of my inadequacy... well, that's entirely possible. There's nothing I've said or done that discounts this possibility.
then sends me a defensive PM responding to each of my criticisms, arguing with them all.
I see a pattern that starts with PMing a reviewer of his for a bad review. I guess he thinks his quest is perfect. Some people.
I don't think that my quest is perfect. However, I do not believe that the improvements you suggested would make it any better. Rather, I believe that my own level of skill (i.e., lack thereof) prevents me from improving my quest further in many ways that I would like to. For example, I lack the artistry to create well-designed maps, which is why my environments look like HAMSTER. The point is that I do greatly appreciate your help (as I've already indicated by my multiple "thank you for the review" messages) in that you reviewed me and spent tons of time writing helpful criticism (unlike the individual quoted in the OP), but I do not find it useful.
So I help the OP out by running his quest to give it a 5 star rating. I post positive feedback in that rating, then post my negative/constructive feedback here as everyone here can see. He berates me for derailing the thread (as seen here), then sends me a defensive PM responding to each of my criticisms, arguing with them all.
I'm scratching my head on that one, everything I've done was to try to help him out. I see a pattern that starts with PMing a reviewer of his for a bad review. I guess he thinks his quest is perfect. Some people.
Man, I could understand him being mad if you just left a one star, and said something like, "This quest is too easy on easy mode." or some bullcrap like that. But five stars, with good feedback to help him improve, and he's mad? Wow.
Man, I could understand him being mad if you just left a one star, and said something like, "This quest is too easy on easy mode." or some bullcrap like that. But five stars, with good feedback to help him improve, and he's mad? Wow.
I'm not mad. I haven't gotten mad yet. cipher9nemo also never stated that I became mad. I've simply defended aspects of my quest that he/she disliked* and suggested that we move discussion to a more appropriate place. I've already stated thrice that I appreciate good feedback (which is, again, what this thread is supposed to be about - avoiding idiotic feedback).
*For example: "Don't forget that no matter what type of quest you have you need a fair amount of combat." I disagree with this point, and so do some of my reviewers (i.e., the ones who enjoy the ability to be able to choose to have minimal combat in a quest and agree that you can really have fights anywhere else in the game).
*For example: "Don't forget that no matter what type of quest you have you need a fair amount of combat."
This is a perfect of example of the difference I talked about in another thread - The difference between advice that will make your quest better for what it is, and advice that will simply change your quest to fit someone's taste.
It's good to see orodalf able to distinguish between the two.
So many people (reviewers and authors alike) cannot.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
lolsorhandMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 981Bounty Hunter
This is a perfect of example of the difference I talked about in another thread - The difference between advice that will make your quest better for what it is, and advice that will simply change your quest to fit someone's taste.
It's good to see orodalf able to distinguish between the two.
So many people (reviewers and authors alike) cannot.
Indeed, there's a difference between pointing out flaws and knowing for a fact that for example a building is floating slightly in the air, than saying a certain quest needs more or less combat.
I'm with orodalf here. You must be able to explain things if someone gives you critique for something that is intended. - Quests don't need combat to be fun nor good imo. And just like the author must be able to listen, and understand what the reviewer is saying, so must the reviewer be ready to listen to the author. Atleast in my opinion.
I'm with orodalf here. You must be able to explain things if someone gives you critique for something that is intended. - Quests don't need combat to be fun nor good imo. And just like the author must be able to listen, and understand what the reviewer is saying, so must the reviewer be ready to listen to the author. Atleast in my opinion.
You didn't see the PM he sent me. I won't repost that here out of respect for his privacy, but it is clear he doesn't want any feedback on his quests yet he expects good ratings/reviews of it. I'll concede that some of my feedback is just my own opinion and not necessarily the best advice for him, but the OP seems to be overly defensive of all criticism. As an author he needs to understand he created that quest for others to play. If it was just for him and/or his friends, then he shouldn't put up such a fuss over one bad review as he did in the OP.
If it was just for him and/or his friends, then he shouldn't put up such a fuss over one bad review as he did in the OP.
I'm sorry, but what? I shouldn't feel wrongly accused when someone says "stop smoking weed"?
I will reiterate: I want a way to stop idiotic reviews like the one in the OP. Please do not put yourself behind the individual quoted in the OP, as you two are very different. You offer legitimate criticism. He does not.
In any case, I would feel perfectly fine if you were to change your rating to 2-stars. It is deserved, based on the way you responded to/felt during the quest (i.e., some positive, but also a HAMSTER-ton of negative). I don't want false 5-star reviews any more than I want false 1-star reviews. I said as much in the closing to my quest.
Comments
But then there's 'just open up already'
"You're not going to even try, are you? Fine."
and then the door opens.
It's not option 1, though thinking about it I should probably make it 1. Heh.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Disable path and try something called "exploring"... It's fun!
The entire campaign can be found here: NWS-DQS27OINC
Individual quests:
1. Heeding the Call - NW-DMJCDZ5XJ
2. Bored of the Rings - NW-DFWE3XR6W
3. Draconian Ways - NW-DUNZEJG2J
4. When All is Said and Done... - Look at the picture
QFT.
In the quest I'm working on I even force disable this (on an exterior map) by not using the map's ground at all. I start with a flat map and build from there. 1500 detail is enough to flesh out what I want.
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD
I've been experimenting with adding map markers using NPCs (under the floor on a platform) to help offer information/guidance without tying it to automatic pathing.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
That won't work on the final chest objective, at least to my knowledge. I disable objective points/areas on most of my stuff. There are a couple where it's useful or at least helpful and doesn't detract from the exploration factor, so I enable them on those (especially when it's confusing without it).
As for my NPCs, I have some where you need to search for them but I don't want them visible on the map. So I use Inspect Object instead, and have that object hidden, invisible, or part of the effects and have the player talk to the object instead of the NPC. If you do that, rename the object to match the desired NPC's name. The downside is that the camera obviously doesn't zoom in and you can't use NPC expressions/emotes. So it won't work for everyone's objectives or quests.
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD
I wish I could get it to work with my custom environments
I had that issue in Foundry with my heavily customised cave system.
Works fine once published though.
All The Best
Looking For Reviews For Your Foundry Quest?
Drop By Scribe's Enclave & Meet Up With Volunteer Reviewers.
But as a player, I like following it too. I'm not really one for exploration maps. I like to have my story fed to me in a nice handheld linear railroaded fashion, like an interactive movie that I'm part of.
If that makes me a "noobie foundry player that wants it easy" then I guess I'm a "noobie foundry player that wants it easy"
Mwhahaha!
Quest ID: NW-DPCZNUVQ7
So I've played through and gave you 5 stars to balance out that stupid 1 star review.
I put my positive feedback in the review, so here's my negative feedback that's hopefully constructive to help you on other quests...
Just honest feedback, not meant to be insulting or anything. I hope all of that helps.
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD
I am not derailing your thread. The thread is about your quest and the lousy rating someone gave it. What else is there to talk about here other than gripe about people who give worthless reviews?
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD
First post:
It's basically another thread like this one. We're hoping for a way to prevent unconstructive reviews.
They don't have that option as all, as stated before. If you want to request it I'd submit a ticket or post in the Bug Reports section instead of the Foundry forum. Devs don't really read forums like General or the Foundry, or rather at least none of them have posted as such. Or there's a nice thread here started by a mod: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?320771-Interactive-Poll-The-Top-20-Fixes-You-d-Make-to-Neverwinter!
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD
All creation is subjective and what might be loved by some will always be hated by others. I agree there are issues with the rating system of the foundry but these issues apply to any rating system where people have to "score" something based on a scale.
What I'm trying to say is don't be too sensitive about your creation, take the good with the bad and the latter with a grain of salt and move on. You will sleep easier that way
The phenomenon was first tested in a series of experiments performed by Dunning and Kruger. Dunning and Kruger noted earlier studies suggesting that ignorance of standards of performance is behind a great deal of incompetence. This pattern was seen in studies of skills as diverse as reading comprehension, operating a motor vehicle, and playing chess or tennis.
Dunning and Kruger proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:
1) tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
2) fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
3) fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy;
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
That all seems to be true here.
Get this...
So I help the OP out by running his quest to give it a 5 star rating. I post positive feedback in that rating, then post my negative/constructive feedback here as everyone here can see. He berates me for derailing the thread (as seen here), then sends me a defensive PM responding to each of my criticisms, arguing with them all.
I'm scratching my head on that one, everything I've done was to try to help him out. I see a pattern that starts with PMing a reviewer of his for a bad review. I guess he thinks his quest is perfect. Some people.
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD
The thread has indeed been derailed (though not really entirely by you). I also did not "berate" you. I merely suggested that we take the discussion elsewhere (with a friendly emoticon, at that). You brought it back to this thread, so I guess I'll continue to respond here.
Also,
is quite insulting to me. I do not fail to recognized genuine skill in others. I like a good quest as much as the next person, and the reviews I do generally reflect this in extended verbosity. Whether I overestimate my level of skill/fail to recognize the extremity of my inadequacy... well, that's entirely possible. There's nothing I've said or done that discounts this possibility.
I don't think that my quest is perfect. However, I do not believe that the improvements you suggested would make it any better. Rather, I believe that my own level of skill (i.e., lack thereof) prevents me from improving my quest further in many ways that I would like to. For example, I lack the artistry to create well-designed maps, which is why my environments look like HAMSTER. The point is that I do greatly appreciate your help (as I've already indicated by my multiple "thank you for the review" messages) in that you reviewed me and spent tons of time writing helpful criticism (unlike the individual quoted in the OP), but I do not find it useful.
Man, I could understand him being mad if you just left a one star, and said something like, "This quest is too easy on easy mode." or some bullcrap like that. But five stars, with good feedback to help him improve, and he's mad? Wow.
I'm not mad. I haven't gotten mad yet. cipher9nemo also never stated that I became mad. I've simply defended aspects of my quest that he/she disliked* and suggested that we move discussion to a more appropriate place. I've already stated thrice that I appreciate good feedback (which is, again, what this thread is supposed to be about - avoiding idiotic feedback).
*For example: "Don't forget that no matter what type of quest you have you need a fair amount of combat." I disagree with this point, and so do some of my reviewers (i.e., the ones who enjoy the ability to be able to choose to have minimal combat in a quest and agree that you can really have fights anywhere else in the game).
It's good to see orodalf able to distinguish between the two.
So many people (reviewers and authors alike) cannot.
Indeed, there's a difference between pointing out flaws and knowing for a fact that for example a building is floating slightly in the air, than saying a certain quest needs more or less combat.
I'm with orodalf here. You must be able to explain things if someone gives you critique for something that is intended. - Quests don't need combat to be fun nor good imo. And just like the author must be able to listen, and understand what the reviewer is saying, so must the reviewer be ready to listen to the author. Atleast in my opinion.
Brethren of the Five, Campaign. - Story focused
The Dwarven Tale - Hack 'N Slash
You didn't see the PM he sent me. I won't repost that here out of respect for his privacy, but it is clear he doesn't want any feedback on his quests yet he expects good ratings/reviews of it. I'll concede that some of my feedback is just my own opinion and not necessarily the best advice for him, but the OP seems to be overly defensive of all criticism. As an author he needs to understand he created that quest for others to play. If it was just for him and/or his friends, then he shouldn't put up such a fuss over one bad review as he did in the OP.
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD
I'm sorry, but what? I shouldn't feel wrongly accused when someone says "stop smoking weed"?
I will reiterate: I want a way to stop idiotic reviews like the one in the OP. Please do not put yourself behind the individual quoted in the OP, as you two are very different. You offer legitimate criticism. He does not.
In any case, I would feel perfectly fine if you were to change your rating to 2-stars. It is deserved, based on the way you responded to/felt during the quest (i.e., some positive, but also a HAMSTER-ton of negative). I don't want false 5-star reviews any more than I want false 1-star reviews. I said as much in the closing to my quest.