reasons why GF is always top most of the times
aoe skills
cleave = high damage fast and hits wide area will probably get the most damage against weak mobs
against mobs with high hp and boss tr will score higher
guard is useless if they are not using it
tr can use smoke or daze it will disable their guard // with stealth + fast movespeed you can easily sneak on their back
cw has entangle unblockable and theres other skill thats unblockable too you just need to know your char
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
When GF's here start blabbing about blink and CW's cc ... that's when I know they're full of bs and just defend a broken mechanic cause they benefit from it.
Blink might let you dodge, but it's not getting you out of range of other **** GF throws your way, so you can't cast anything. You stop to cast, so stop-lose range-die.
CC barely holds the target enough to compensate for time you spend to cast it and you have the means to ignore it.
You get ton of health/def and ignore cc abilities for giving up range ... and then get range anyway.
When people complain about GF having ignore CC abilities I know they're full of bs.
- only with tene slotted imho, without their damage is too low to consider them OP. same for perma stealth really, it's tene breaking PVP for those classes.
This is the problem, paired with a rotation that keeps you prone/stunned.
GF's have been OP in PVP since open beta and maybe longer, just all the flak was towards TR's at the start & only now has the public really addressed the issue (with good reason).
reasons why GF is always top most of the times
aoe skills
cleave = high damage fast and hits wide area will probably get the most damage against weak mobs
against mobs with high hp and boss tr will score higher
guard is useless if they are not using it
tr can use smoke or daze it will disable their guard // with stealth + fast movespeed you can easily sneak on their back
cw has entangle unblockable and theres other skill thats unblockable too you just need to know your char
Okay, even though I'm pretty sure you and Fussdmas are just fluffing this post to get attention.
#1 Mages get cloth armor because they have 80' range and they are a ranged class.
#2 Mages SHOULD do the same dmg as a dmg based fighter and one could even argue a fighter should do more given melee restraints. But that entirely depends on the combat system.
#3 Fighters should have more HP and def because they are NOT ranged and they have to go all in when they want to attack and any PvPer in this game will tell you HP and Mitigation are bottom of the barrel for stats.
#4 If you noticed none of my examples even mentioned the fact you can buy distance and time with your CC's I left that out on purpose and stuck with the pure fact you CAN keep your distance without them.
#5 Neither fighter can dodge, wtf are you talking about. If you're trying to knife a guarding GF you're a fool.
Quit being a creep and looking through my posts I don't love you and if you want me to make a video of my CW you'll have to buy me dinner first. I do put out on the first date but I want a free dinner first.
I think i will pass on the date. Round and round it goes.
With regards to dodge yes you are correct in a rare mistake I should written block. Thats the thing though you can block the damage and ccs we put out. If you time it correctly. Then im left with casting while rooted to chip away slightly at your health. But you can soak it up or heal through and keep advancing.
I see GF's continuing to advance looking to get into at will range. A well geared GF just keep coming and once your out of stamina they will catch you.
Now i could just turn my back and keep running. The game is about domination. A GF will force me off a point immediately which benefits their team dramatically.
The funny thing is if you play a GF well you know this. Why deny it.
It's funny because honestly every class that gets beat by any class more than once just hop on the forum and rages how OP the class is. SO we have numerous threads about OP classes...there are only 5 stinking classes in game. They are all super fun. Its really well balances. Enchantments are a bit broken, but the classes themselves are nicely balanced. We are ready for MORE classes and more paragon paths. End of the day...cry babies always find something to cry about, best ignore these whiny little trolls who rather rage than learn to play.
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perfectindigoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
PVP queue should have a checkbox:
[ ] I can play as a team member and learn the strengths and weaknesses of other classes.
If you don't check it, you are matched against people using your class. This way you can learn how other people play your class and see what's weak and strong about the class on its own. When you're feeling more confident, then you can check the box and start playing against other classes.
GFs have significant strengths and weaknesses. If you just see them as OP, then you either don't know your own class, or don't know GFs.
The best way to take out a GF remains to not 1v1 them. You can take them out 1v1, but it's hard. To do that you need to understand their skills and when they're vulnerable (when their guard is broken, just used up their daily, etc). And it's a team game, so why bother? Get one other person. Approach the GF from two different directions. CC the GF. Kill it in five seconds. This works on any GF and completely negates their guard. GFs can't disengage from combat, so use that against them. Choose when to fight a GF, when you're at an advantage. A smart GF will try to counter you by positioning you so that you are both in front of their guard. Or they will try to knock one of you away or knock you down. Or they will try to disengage. Now you're talking about skill, rather than being OP.
If you're not in a situation where you have an ally that can help kill the GF in a few seconds, do you really need to fight the GF? Think about what's happening on the map, rather than getting focused on a 1v1. Once you stop thinking 1v1 in a team capture game, you can start understanding the game and see when it's time to fight / delay / wait for backup / kite / contest / capture / distract.
A DPS GF's ability to stunlock and kill you with a full rotation (which is something any dps build can do) doesn't seem as valuable when you can stay out of range, lure them off their point, position them while backup arrives, then kill them in a few seconds before moving on to the next thing.
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nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
i tried TR its equiped with glory gear set armor and weapon green accessories no enchant and i can still kill GF and GWF you just need to know how to beat them
Glory set has very low def
use your dodge and skills wisely youre not fighting AI like on dungeons
Rock: I just don't get all this paper wrapping stuff, its too OP, no one can beat it and it needs a nerf. Scissors is fine though, right where it needs to be.
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fusedmassMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 252Bounty Hunter
Rock: I just don't get all this paper wrapping stuff, its too OP, no one can beat it and it needs a nerf. Scissors is fine though, right where it needs to be.
I'm curious, you said you're peace. Yet you continue to stick around this thread. Shows me your intent on trying to convince other people that class is not over powered, which means you either worried you're going get a nerf or so you're so bored you just rather mock people.
Complain all you want. Each time you post, this thread gets a bump.
There are tons of threads saying trs are overpowered. There are tons of threads saying gwfs are overpowered. There are tons of threads saying gfs are overpowered. There are tons of threads saying cws are overpowered. There are no threads about dcs being overpowered.
I'm curious, you said you're peace. Yet you continue to stick around this thread. Shows me your intent on trying to convince other people that class is not over powered, which means you either worried you're going get a nerf or so you're so bored you just rather mock people.
Complain all you want. Each time you post, this thread gets a bump.
Im curious too, on how anyone would be worried about getting a nerf. You see, in a game where people constantly complain about classes being OP in PVP, all a nerf does is replace one class with another at the top of the power ladder - which will then become the new class to complain about being OP. GWF was that class at the very beginning, and notice how no one even wants them in their groups anymore? The reality here is people don't learn from their lessons, because all they did when complaining about others needing a nerf, is to put their own favored class at the top of the food chain - the next class to get nerfed.
Notice no one wanted GF or GWF in PVP parties for a long time after the first nerf of GWF, and now people are complaining GF is too uber. Its because everyone complaining about PVP balance get everything else nerfed beyond it.
PVPers have been chasing balance for 14 years now, and haven't found it. Sounds to me like people are too stuck tradition - on wanting the tank to be the weakest class, lowest DPS, and kite-able. Im glad there was some outside the box thinking done here, and the tank class isn't just a huge joke in PVP. I still kill them on other classes, but its not a 100% sure thing, and takes skill in knowing correct use of abilities in the correct order, and not just shooting and running away - to the forums to complain its OP because its a challenge to ranged classes.
GFs, guys? Please stop pwning fusedmass in pvp. Just run away from him. When other classes pwn him - he might stop writing about GFs and starts complaining about someone else.
I play a GF, it was my first character on neverwinter.
Whilst most classes can be strong - built properly - GF's just have no trade off; as conqueror they can have a massive health pool & AC, 2 knock down encounters, knock down dailies, and all the charges. There is no other class that can keep you perma CC'd while they 1,2,3 combo your health 100-~15% (a CW can just about do this if they have a daily up; a GF can do it every ~17 seconds). Not to mention that after their immense CC is over, they then have incredible survivability.
Playing with ~10.5k GS I cannot remember ever being solo'd. Even "perma" stealth rogues have to come out eventually, usually after getting me to ~40% HP, and then they get 1 shot like everyone else. GF's are so, so faceroll that I actually rolled a cleric, because it got boring.
The GF CC/KD abilities should have their damage dropped way down (and their threat raised for PvE balance), so players have to choose to trade off between control and damage.
Playing with ~10.5k GS I cannot remember ever being solo'd. Even "perma" stealth rogues have to come out eventually, usually after getting me to ~40% HP, and then they get 1 shot like everyone else. GF's are so, so faceroll that I actually rolled a cleric, because it got boring.
How on earth are you 1 hitting rogues at 10.5k GS?? I have an 11.5 GS GF conqueror spec and I hit for about 3-4k dmg per encounter. 1 hitting people? That's way out of my league. I have no Tene's though.
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kerupi1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited June 2013
I could easily 2 hits most of the classes w/ knight challenge though but don't nerf us plox TT
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
How on earth are you 1 hitting rogues at 10.5k GS?? I have an 11.5 GS GF conqueror spec and I hit for about 3-4k dmg per encounter. 1 hitting people? That's way out of my league. I have no Tene's though.
Same, 11.6k GS, conq and I've never oneshot anyone. Three shot if I crit on at least two encounters vs a low geared CW or TR.
WTF. GF dont even have an atwill STUN. THe op has no idea what hes talking about. We also only have an average of 5 percent more damage reduction then GWF, and we dont even have UNSTOPPABLE. Plz have higher then 8k gs when u whine.
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yushirokaneMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
How on earth are you 1 hitting rogues at 10.5k GS?? I have an 11.5 GS GF conqueror spec and I hit for about 3-4k dmg per encounter. 1 hitting people? That's way out of my league. I have no Tene's though.
Easy, the guy says he plays a DC now, guess which is the class they hate more that can be locked without heals, now guess why he wants the nerf
If something must be done is apply some diminishing returns to CC, problem solved. Nerfing damage will make ppl dont want to have GF in parties as the bosses can be easily tanked by ther classess. PPl started to asking for GFs when they realized they can give damage to the party too, most ppl just want to play fast.
That or nerf knights challenge (which is the problem for some noobs its seems, easily countereable for skilled players)
Other nerf must be tenebrous, they scale too well with GF.
So the problem is not GF, it is CC diminishing returns, Tenebrous stacking and the **** knights challenge. Aply thise changes and no more GF whines (well the thing is 80% of the GF nerf cries in this thread is the same guy lol)
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arydiousMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 6Arc User
And that's when I know you just full of BS. Yes, if he gets a jump on me he should be dangerous to a squishy class. But having ton of def/health, damage and bull**** gap closer is pushing it over the top. Just power on top of power on top of power without trade offs.
Ill im going to say to you is ...... wow man, you need to level up some
So the problem is not GF, it is CC diminishing returns, Tenebrous stacking and the **** knights challenge. Aply thise changes and no more GF whines (well the thing is 80% of the GF nerf cries in this thread is the same guy lol)
Learn to dodge lunging and then punish the GF using knight's challenge. If they can 2 shot you, you can 2 shot them.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Learn to dodge lunging and then punish the GF using knight's challenge. If they can 2 shot you, you can 2 shot them.
This exactly, ppl are just bad... Honestly guys, learn the classes and the mechanics, I keep reading this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> aobut nerf rogues, nerf GWF, nerf GFs..
HONESTLY... learn the classes. Knights challenge gives the GF DOUBLE damage to its target but the target also does DOUBLE damage to the GF... when you sit it, hey it might be a good idea to run or CC the GF... or nuke him back... Its a real risk using that because if the target runs, your boned cause now you do less damage to ANYONE else but that challenged target...
Also GWF vs GF 1v1, the GWF will win... so think about that...
ALSO, a good CW can win 1v1 vs a GF, a good TR can win 1v1... its about timing and knowing how to counter each class... instead of thinking everyother class out there has this special 1-2 shot move, why dont you figure out what it is, how they can do it, and how to prevent it... chances are... they didnt just press "Q" and you died...
Comments
aoe skills
cleave = high damage fast and hits wide area will probably get the most damage against weak mobs
against mobs with high hp and boss tr will score higher
guard is useless if they are not using it
tr can use smoke or daze it will disable their guard // with stealth + fast movespeed you can easily sneak on their back
cw has entangle unblockable and theres other skill thats unblockable too you just need to know your char
When people complain about GF having ignore CC abilities I know they're full of bs.
This is the problem, paired with a rotation that keeps you prone/stunned.
GF's have been OP in PVP since open beta and maybe longer, just all the flak was towards TR's at the start & only now has the public really addressed the issue (with good reason).
Sorry bud Entang is blockable.
I think i will pass on the date. Round and round it goes.
With regards to dodge yes you are correct in a rare mistake I should written block. Thats the thing though you can block the damage and ccs we put out. If you time it correctly. Then im left with casting while rooted to chip away slightly at your health. But you can soak it up or heal through and keep advancing.
I see GF's continuing to advance looking to get into at will range. A well geared GF just keep coming and once your out of stamina they will catch you.
Now i could just turn my back and keep running. The game is about domination. A GF will force me off a point immediately which benefits their team dramatically.
The funny thing is if you play a GF well you know this. Why deny it.
[ ] I can play as a team member and learn the strengths and weaknesses of other classes.
If you don't check it, you are matched against people using your class. This way you can learn how other people play your class and see what's weak and strong about the class on its own. When you're feeling more confident, then you can check the box and start playing against other classes.
GFs have significant strengths and weaknesses. If you just see them as OP, then you either don't know your own class, or don't know GFs.
The best way to take out a GF remains to not 1v1 them. You can take them out 1v1, but it's hard. To do that you need to understand their skills and when they're vulnerable (when their guard is broken, just used up their daily, etc). And it's a team game, so why bother? Get one other person. Approach the GF from two different directions. CC the GF. Kill it in five seconds. This works on any GF and completely negates their guard. GFs can't disengage from combat, so use that against them. Choose when to fight a GF, when you're at an advantage. A smart GF will try to counter you by positioning you so that you are both in front of their guard. Or they will try to knock one of you away or knock you down. Or they will try to disengage. Now you're talking about skill, rather than being OP.
If you're not in a situation where you have an ally that can help kill the GF in a few seconds, do you really need to fight the GF? Think about what's happening on the map, rather than getting focused on a 1v1. Once you stop thinking 1v1 in a team capture game, you can start understanding the game and see when it's time to fight / delay / wait for backup / kite / contest / capture / distract.
A DPS GF's ability to stunlock and kill you with a full rotation (which is something any dps build can do) doesn't seem as valuable when you can stay out of range, lure them off their point, position them while backup arrives, then kill them in a few seconds before moving on to the next thing.
who say GF is OP has a serious problem to understand this game. Learn how to play.
Thank you for speaking the truth.
Glory set has very low def
use your dodge and skills wisely youre not fighting AI like on dungeons
lol.... Amusing. GF's still need defensive buffs and a better guard meter if anything more Buff's.
I'm curious, you said you're peace. Yet you continue to stick around this thread. Shows me your intent on trying to convince other people that class is not over powered, which means you either worried you're going get a nerf or so you're so bored you just rather mock people.
Complain all you want. Each time you post, this thread gets a bump.
Im curious too, on how anyone would be worried about getting a nerf. You see, in a game where people constantly complain about classes being OP in PVP, all a nerf does is replace one class with another at the top of the power ladder - which will then become the new class to complain about being OP. GWF was that class at the very beginning, and notice how no one even wants them in their groups anymore? The reality here is people don't learn from their lessons, because all they did when complaining about others needing a nerf, is to put their own favored class at the top of the food chain - the next class to get nerfed.
Notice no one wanted GF or GWF in PVP parties for a long time after the first nerf of GWF, and now people are complaining GF is too uber. Its because everyone complaining about PVP balance get everything else nerfed beyond it.
PVPers have been chasing balance for 14 years now, and haven't found it. Sounds to me like people are too stuck tradition - on wanting the tank to be the weakest class, lowest DPS, and kite-able. Im glad there was some outside the box thinking done here, and the tank class isn't just a huge joke in PVP. I still kill them on other classes, but its not a 100% sure thing, and takes skill in knowing correct use of abilities in the correct order, and not just shooting and running away - to the forums to complain its OP because its a challenge to ranged classes.
Whilst most classes can be strong - built properly - GF's just have no trade off; as conqueror they can have a massive health pool & AC, 2 knock down encounters, knock down dailies, and all the charges. There is no other class that can keep you perma CC'd while they 1,2,3 combo your health 100-~15% (a CW can just about do this if they have a daily up; a GF can do it every ~17 seconds). Not to mention that after their immense CC is over, they then have incredible survivability.
Playing with ~10.5k GS I cannot remember ever being solo'd. Even "perma" stealth rogues have to come out eventually, usually after getting me to ~40% HP, and then they get 1 shot like everyone else. GF's are so, so faceroll that I actually rolled a cleric, because it got boring.
The GF CC/KD abilities should have their damage dropped way down (and their threat raised for PvE balance), so players have to choose to trade off between control and damage.
How on earth are you 1 hitting rogues at 10.5k GS?? I have an 11.5 GS GF conqueror spec and I hit for about 3-4k dmg per encounter. 1 hitting people? That's way out of my league. I have no Tene's though.
Same, 11.6k GS, conq and I've never oneshot anyone. Three shot if I crit on at least two encounters vs a low geared CW or TR.
Easy, the guy says he plays a DC now, guess which is the class they hate more that can be locked without heals, now guess why he wants the nerf
If something must be done is apply some diminishing returns to CC, problem solved. Nerfing damage will make ppl dont want to have GF in parties as the bosses can be easily tanked by ther classess. PPl started to asking for GFs when they realized they can give damage to the party too, most ppl just want to play fast.
That or nerf knights challenge (which is the problem for some noobs its seems, easily countereable for skilled players)
Other nerf must be tenebrous, they scale too well with GF.
So the problem is not GF, it is CC diminishing returns, Tenebrous stacking and the **** knights challenge. Aply thise changes and no more GF whines (well the thing is 80% of the GF nerf cries in this thread is the same guy lol)
Ill im going to say to you is ...... wow man, you need to level up some
Learn to dodge lunging and then punish the GF using knight's challenge. If they can 2 shot you, you can 2 shot them.
HONESTLY... learn the classes. Knights challenge gives the GF DOUBLE damage to its target but the target also does DOUBLE damage to the GF... when you sit it, hey it might be a good idea to run or CC the GF... or nuke him back... Its a real risk using that because if the target runs, your boned cause now you do less damage to ANYONE else but that challenged target...
Also GWF vs GF 1v1, the GWF will win... so think about that...
ALSO, a good CW can win 1v1 vs a GF, a good TR can win 1v1... its about timing and knowing how to counter each class... instead of thinking everyother class out there has this special 1-2 shot move, why dont you figure out what it is, how they can do it, and how to prevent it... chances are... they didnt just press "Q" and you died...
Just sayin...