rondoo1876Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited June 2013
All I have seen in this thread is a bunch of flavor of the month gf's stating this thread is bogus rofl it is as it is no class should have total defense and total offense in one build I play top teir and every one of us top teirs are stunned that this class is still going without being fixed
TR are OP, CW are OP, GF are OP, and now you can also see thread about GWF being OP (omg i can't kill them!).
Guys, seriously... this is gettin' pathetic. If only was all about one class, it would be different. But it's sad to see that people that fail in pvp try to fix their weakness in the forum.
TR are OP, CW are OP, GF are OP, and now you can also see thread about GWF being OP (omg i can't kill them!).
Guys, seriously... this is gettin' pathetic. If only was all about one class, it would be different. But it's sad to see that people that fail in pvp try to fix their weakness in the forum.
PVP damage is a bit too high. I have a DPS GF, i crit for too much dmg, and i take too much dmg. I think i should do and take less, but ehy, it's funny so np.
Before last patch you felt damage was too high but now you do more its balanced.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I play TR, CW and GF. It seems fine to me, just...very unforgiving. It can take a while to learn and perfect your counters to the other classes and if it takes someone 12 matches to do so it can be very discouraging.
I'm still not very good at countering GFs with my CW. I can't quite time my blink behind and CC right.
TR hits really hard OR is really stealthy but either way it goes downreally fast unless it starts running before things even start getting hairy.
CW was nerfed to the ground and bugged beyond belief, it can cc but it can't kill **** anymore unless it gets really lucky with ice knife while it used to just melt opponents with a simple ray.
GF hits like a truck of trucks and never goes down, you have to kite it constantly because a single mistake that lets it catch you with a CC means from there it's no longer in your hands, just wait until the combo is over and you're dead or pray someone comes help you real fast. basically a GF in 1vs1 doesn' really need any skill, all it needs to do is run after you and try to land a knockdown to win, it's all up to you not to let them catch you and considering how long it takes for a GF to go down it's a test of stamina for you. oh and what with the daily that allows them to pretty much go back to full health during a fight?
GWF might be OP but only with tene slotted imho, whitout their damage is too low to consider them OP. same for perma stealth really, it's tene breaking PVP for those classes.
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fusedmassMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 252Bounty Hunter
ROFL! Some say TRs are OP. Some say GWFs are OP. Some say GFs are OP. Some say CWs are OP. That should mean to say that this is a balance game then. Problem with the people here is that if they get owned, they cant just accept the fact that they suck. Read the other threads. A lot of people crying here in the forums about TRs,GWFs,GFs and CWs being OP! If one class kills you, then you immediately cry out in the forums that the class is OP! WTF! Grow up kids!
Lets try basic logic. You know last patch they designed to nerf CW on several different levels. Now common sense would tell us they did that because they felt a class was over powered. Unless they have everything balanced 100 perfect. They're always going to do patch's, nerfing and boosting.
However its a disservice to pretend its the player. Just blindly mock the player, claiming they don't understand the game or its their skill. That's all well, but that's a complete smoke screen. Guardian's were given an damage boost. (check the notes if you don't believe me) and a cool down on their abilities last patch.
For over a month this game been out. Yet only since that patch has everyone really complained, over and over about one class. I count over five threads that get lost in shuffle repeating the same concern of this one. Its not us, its the class. I been In numerous pvp with people and the Gurdian is able to aborsb insane amount of damage.
Then a single hit with a charge, causing them to sprint over to me can knock me for well below half my health. Before I can even respond a (stunned) another hit kills me. They shouldn't be able to crit so hard with a single hit. That's why these threads are popping up.
Because its their damage and their absorb damage. It irks me a bit when people seem to complain "Its not them at all but the class" yet I bet all those people are guardian's.
claiming they don't understand the game or its their skill.
It's kinda funny actually. All I saw so far from gf's in terms of skill is "run forward till target is no more". Is this the amazing skill I should aspire to, or lacking to be successful in pvp?
i have to admit "run forward till target is no more" actually sounds like what a fantasy-type big melee class should be... except it's a mess in pvp. guardians were among the best pvp class before the patch except only good players could actually pull it off, now it's just pretty ridicolous, the needed the pve fix but definitely not the pvp one.
Before the patch it was quite entertaining to go 1v1 against gf and it could go either way depending on who of us ****s up. Right now it's just "run away and hope he gets distracted by something". If I could cast while moving ... but right now all the cc I have just buy me enough time to compensate for the time I spent casting and not enough to actually get some range.
And I don't get the whole "let's give melee classes ranged attacks on top of everything else".
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fusedmassMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 252Bounty Hunter
i have to admit "run forward till target is no more" actually sounds like what a fantasy-type big melee class should be... except it's a mess in pvp. guardians were among the best pvp class before the patch except only good players could actually pull it off, now it's just pretty ridicolous, the needed the pve fix but definitely not the pvp one.
You are correct. It doesn't make much skill to block, then charge in with an attack. The reason the complaint on them being over powered applies to PVP. Even though Tanks, can crit just as high, in most cases much higher then pure DPS class. Its they take so long to chip down their health.
in PVP beating people is critical to capturing things. I again in PVP played against a Guardian. I blinked twice, behind him. I unleashed three separate spells on him, plus my major attack being a CW. Yet it didn't even go to half his health. Meanwhile he charges me (like always)
Knocks me down for more then half my health. It happens no matter who is playing the class. Then another hit. If that's normal and working as intended then I'm going roll this class purely for over powered. They are a tank class, designed to take damage but not supposed dish out same damage as pure DPS class, like rogues, for example.
They shouldn't be crit people in one move, meanwhile blocking every single spell we do. Its just...
Before the patch it was quite entertaining to go 1v1 against gf and it could go either way depending on who of us ****s up. Right now it's just "run away and hope he gets distracted by something". If I could cast while moving ... but right now all the cc I have just buy me enough time to compensate for the time I spent casting and not enough to actually get some range.
And I don't get the whole "let's give melee classes ranged attacks on top of everything else".
The big patch that increased guardian threat by 35% and fixes a few bugs? Or the more recent one where a guardian can block any single hit with full block meter making it so you need at least 2 hits to kill one when they block?
You can consider GF's a strong class, but I really doubt more threat makes them kill you faster. It's more likely they're now geared more.
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arydiousMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 6Arc User
um what weakness exactly does the conq gf have? you cant kite them cause they leap to you you cant stun them they block it. and if you survive long enough to pull those skills off be prepared to be chain stunned with 10k crits lol.
I would like to point out that we GF dont jump that would be a GWF.
I would admit our damage is pretty intense I was shocked rolling a tank and being able to basically 3 shot people. Secondly each class can fight it just takes patience. If your the unlucky guy that got hit by our damage rotation yeah your basically screwed but if you see it prepare to break our shield then we are stuck.
Also a really cool trick many people forget about is dodging man does that save people. dodge our initial charge then we have to wait to catch up to you. Our instant gap closer as a little bit of a recovery on it so we wont be smashing you to the ground right after it unless your just standing there like a fool.
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astariadodfMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Well news central - The GWF flourish stun does work on them its an attack that comes "360 degrees". BUT in the devs wisdom it lasts less than 1 second. So woot! great planning, which is also why CW are still over the top with the teleports, our stun means nothing.
Fixing is a decision - nerf these classes again, or put counters in other classes. Guess we will see what they do.
Edit: BTW read the reply above once mine went I think he meant 'rush' instead of jump. They definately have the rush to you function.
Seriously a tank can and has been known to be both strong in offense and defense in MANY games and in real life and almost always at the cost of speed, mobility and recovery between attacks, this fits guardian fighters quite well. Its just tricky surviving because if they get you with a knockdown you gotta take the entire volley and even another tank can be destroyed against that.
If there was anything that I'd change that made GF more manageable I would increase the damage and cooldown of their encounters by 50% - 100% atleast on the big damage centric ones like lunging strike, bull's charge and frontline surge. This way if you avoid their first strike you have a very open "fire at will the tanks reloading" chance. On the flip side if you fail your gonna die, just a bit faster.
Secondly each class can fight it just takes patience.
Don't you think there's a trouble there? Maybe you should be careful and patient fighting other classes too ?
Imagine if you had to carefully close the gap to a ranged fighter ... or maybe even deciding to retreat and wait while your TR melts the enemy wizard. Not just run-charge-bash everything without a care in the world?
I don't know what you think is balanced, but I think whatever is happening in pvp right now is far from it.
Don't you think there's a trouble there? Maybe you should be careful and patient fighting other classes too ?
Imagine if you had to carefully close the gap to a ranged fighter ... or maybe even deciding to retreat and wait while your TR melts the enemy wizard. Not just run-charge-bash everything without a care in the world?
I don't know what you think is balanced, but I think whatever is happening in pvp right now is far from it.
If you thing GF goes in without patience your silly, we come in and look at the one guy not paying attention then wreck him, but we have to be careful to not get the one guy surrounded by his team mates otherwise its a death wish.
Also Ill point out like I said above, if you are paying attention and see a GF coming you dodge right when they charge, and wow you basically avoided their onslaught.
Are they still going to go after you.....probably but wont most classes?
Can you kite a gf long enough to break his shield and then beat him....Yes I do it on my CW all the time.
SO yes I have a 60 CW and a 60 GF i play them both and love them both. I am not just a GF trying to defend them, I am saying they can be fought. DO they annoy the hell out of me yes, if I get caught off guard they HAMSTER me off but so does any other TR, CW, or GWF that catches you off guard.
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arydiousMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 6Arc User
if GF hit like a truck they might have used knights challenge on you (double edge sword x2 damage for both of you) or has tene enchants
conqueror GF is like a glass cannon high damage but lower def compared to tank what makes them OP is stalwart set high def and deflect
for ranged if they guard use normal atk to break it and dodge if you see them dash
go to their back, guard only blocks attack from front
This guy is smart!
Also when they are conqueror, the goal is to not block because they do more damage based on how much block meter they have. Take that bit of advice and do what you must.
if you are paying attention and see a GF coming you dodge right when they charge
And that's when I know you just full of BS. Yes, if he gets a jump on me he should be dangerous to a squishy class. But having ton of def/health, damage and bull**** gap closer is pushing it over the top. Just power on top of power on top of power without trade offs.
Seriously? I normally feel no class is OP so I don't like using the term... being said that particular paragon for GF is WAYYYYYYY OP there a **** superman. I honestly see no way of defeating one 1 v1 its insane.
1) They have a greater burst damage then rogues
2) They have the best movement with a at will basically leap
3) They can pump out massive damage in little under 3 secs
4) they have a At will stun... with a difference there stuns send opponents prone for 3 seconds
5) heavy armor class which means hard to damage
6) large health pool
7) a shield that can block nearly all stuns and attacks
Please Gf's especially the FOTM don't even try to deny the spec is out of control for pvp a 3 year old can do good in pvp with it and dominate groups.
Every class is pretty well balanced but the GF for pvp the damage dealers and cc artists cw's tr's gwf's etc give up defense and have to dodge evade pray swear etc. to survive to get there burst damage
Healers lose there massive healing if they dps spec so they become damage dealers with not a lot of defense.
um what weakness exactly does the conq gf have? you cant kite them cause they leap to you you cant stun them they block it. and if you survive long enough to pull those skills off be prepared to be chain stunned with 10k crits lol.
Yes im raging! Ive been mmo playing and pvping for over a decade and ive never seen a class this insane in any game worse ive never seen a class close to being this insane that didn't get fixed promptly! what are you dev's doing? people literally leave pvp matches now when 2 or more gf conq's are on the same team!
Sorry you're upset man. GFs do not have more burst than an equally geared rogue nor do they have any at will stuns.
no class should be able to win all 1v1, that would be just idiotic design. a tank should be able to STALL all 1v1, not WIN.
otherwise, let's assume your logic was correct, what is the counter to a 5 GF team if every single one of them requires 2 of you? answers like "you have your own GF" and "you have to outplay them" won't do. if the only way to beat a class is have more of the class then clearly it means it is OP, and if you HAVE to outplay them because equal skill level = your loss then they are also OP.
The Control Wizard is broken. It should have a bolt like chill strike with a respectable cooldown like 7 seconds without gear and with gear and regen we should be able to get it down to 3 - 3.5 seconds that would fix the Cw right there.
This game is designed to make as much money as possible on a day to day basis. It is not designed to be a great long term game.
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cichardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
QQQQ i got beat by a GF QQQQ mmmmm the tears of CWs and TRs feed my GF!
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fusedmassMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 252Bounty Hunter
edited June 2013
The debate that if the Guardian is over powered is done for me. I know they are over powered. I ran several dungeons yesterday, the Guardian behold ranked first in DPS, above the PURE DPS class. No we didn't suck, yes we know our rotations and we're sitting in nice gear.
Not only are Guardians a terror in PVP because the insane amount of damage. Not only can they absorb an insane equal amount of damage but they're also maintaining DPS high above, and I mean by a wide gap then that of its counter parts.
That is OVER POWERED. When a class can absorb as much as them and dish out extreme damage about in PVE/PVP the Dev's know it. There's no way they could be comfortable with things how they are. If things don't change. I just might as well jump on the flavor of the month and become a Guardians myself.
I'm not looking to nerf them to the ground. I just want them to become balanced like every other class.
You're looking at one super optimized build with some op gear which gives % of hp as power or something. Played by a skilled player. A normal tank can't "absorb an insane equal amount of damage" - in fact none tank can. Your insane amount of damage probably sucked. Because in any pvp match any decent rogue or gfw can burst through all your def and hp in a 2 seconds.
I say go ahead and try the op tank - post screens of ownage please. We will wait.
You're looking at one super optimized build with some op gear which gives % of hp as power or something. Played by a skilled player. A normal tank can't "absorb an insane equal amount of damage" - in fact none tank can. Your insane amount of damage probably sucked. Because in any pvp match any decent rogue or gfw can burst through all your def and hp in a 2 seconds.
I say go ahead and try the op tank - post screens of ownage please. We will wait.
Even prepatch a well geared, not uber geared but well geared would last a lot longer than 2 seconds against multiple players. Turtle up.
Based on the fact this is your first post your prob not talking at cap PVP and you prob arent well geared.
The debate that if the Guardian is over powered is done for me. I know they are over powered. I ran several dungeons yesterday, the Guardian behold ranked first in DPS, above the PURE DPS class. No we didn't suck, yes we know our rotations and we're sitting in nice gear.
Not only are Guardians a terror in PVP because the insane amount of damage. Not only can they absorb an insane equal amount of damage but they're also maintaining DPS high above, and I mean by a wide gap then that of its counter parts.
That is OVER POWERED. When a class can absorb as much as them and dish out extreme damage about in PVE/PVP the Dev's know it. There's no way they could be comfortable with things how they are. If things don't change. I just might as well jump on the flavor of the month and become a Guardians myself.
I'm not looking to nerf them to the ground. I just want them to become balanced like every other class.
Ran CN yesterday with another CW with full shadow weaver and ancients in every slot. I was in the same and a GF in average gear. Had green shirt and pants.
We were AOEing like crazy which is what you would expect from two geared CW in a run.
GF easily topped the damage charts. Im seeing more and more of this. I'm also seeing the 90% health prone stunning attacks from tanks in PVP. Their at will gap closer is a real killer. Just got hope they dont catch you near a wall.
What i dont get is that they get massive HP and mitigation, defense, deflection. Whereas im in a flimsy piece of cloth and they out damage me.
Even prepatch a well geared, not uber geared but well geared would last a lot longer than 2 seconds against multiple players. Turtle up.
Based on the fact this is your first post your prob not talking at cap PVP and you prob arent well geared.
I am geared well enough if we're not talking about high end epic pvp. I am at 9,5k gs and can be easily stunned/held and killed by people who know what they are doing.
Comments
Guys, seriously... this is gettin' pathetic. If only was all about one class, it would be different. But it's sad to see that people that fail in pvp try to fix their weakness in the forum.
Thinks balancing is fine.
Ohh plays OP class couldnt guess that.
When you said clerics are up all your credibility went out the window.
Before last patch you felt damage was too high but now you do more its balanced.
I play TR, CW and GF. It seems fine to me, just...very unforgiving. It can take a while to learn and perfect your counters to the other classes and if it takes someone 12 matches to do so it can be very discouraging.
I'm still not very good at countering GFs with my CW. I can't quite time my blink behind and CC right.
Doesnt know how to play the class but thinks its fine.
TR hits really hard OR is really stealthy but either way it goes downreally fast unless it starts running before things even start getting hairy.
CW was nerfed to the ground and bugged beyond belief, it can cc but it can't kill **** anymore unless it gets really lucky with ice knife while it used to just melt opponents with a simple ray.
GF hits like a truck of trucks and never goes down, you have to kite it constantly because a single mistake that lets it catch you with a CC means from there it's no longer in your hands, just wait until the combo is over and you're dead or pray someone comes help you real fast. basically a GF in 1vs1 doesn' really need any skill, all it needs to do is run after you and try to land a knockdown to win, it's all up to you not to let them catch you and considering how long it takes for a GF to go down it's a test of stamina for you. oh and what with the daily that allows them to pretty much go back to full health during a fight?
GWF might be OP but only with tene slotted imho, whitout their damage is too low to consider them OP. same for perma stealth really, it's tene breaking PVP for those classes.
Lets try basic logic. You know last patch they designed to nerf CW on several different levels. Now common sense would tell us they did that because they felt a class was over powered. Unless they have everything balanced 100 perfect. They're always going to do patch's, nerfing and boosting.
However its a disservice to pretend its the player. Just blindly mock the player, claiming they don't understand the game or its their skill. That's all well, but that's a complete smoke screen. Guardian's were given an damage boost. (check the notes if you don't believe me) and a cool down on their abilities last patch.
For over a month this game been out. Yet only since that patch has everyone really complained, over and over about one class. I count over five threads that get lost in shuffle repeating the same concern of this one. Its not us, its the class. I been In numerous pvp with people and the Gurdian is able to aborsb insane amount of damage.
Then a single hit with a charge, causing them to sprint over to me can knock me for well below half my health. Before I can even respond a (stunned) another hit kills me. They shouldn't be able to crit so hard with a single hit. That's why these threads are popping up.
Because its their damage and their absorb damage. It irks me a bit when people seem to complain "Its not them at all but the class" yet I bet all those people are guardian's.
And I don't get the whole "let's give melee classes ranged attacks on top of everything else".
You are correct. It doesn't make much skill to block, then charge in with an attack. The reason the complaint on them being over powered applies to PVP. Even though Tanks, can crit just as high, in most cases much higher then pure DPS class. Its they take so long to chip down their health.
in PVP beating people is critical to capturing things. I again in PVP played against a Guardian. I blinked twice, behind him. I unleashed three separate spells on him, plus my major attack being a CW. Yet it didn't even go to half his health. Meanwhile he charges me (like always)
Knocks me down for more then half my health. It happens no matter who is playing the class. Then another hit. If that's normal and working as intended then I'm going roll this class purely for over powered. They are a tank class, designed to take damage but not supposed dish out same damage as pure DPS class, like rogues, for example.
They shouldn't be crit people in one move, meanwhile blocking every single spell we do. Its just...
over powered
The big patch that increased guardian threat by 35% and fixes a few bugs? Or the more recent one where a guardian can block any single hit with full block meter making it so you need at least 2 hits to kill one when they block?
You can consider GF's a strong class, but I really doubt more threat makes them kill you faster. It's more likely they're now geared more.
I would like to point out that we GF dont jump that would be a GWF.
I would admit our damage is pretty intense I was shocked rolling a tank and being able to basically 3 shot people. Secondly each class can fight it just takes patience. If your the unlucky guy that got hit by our damage rotation yeah your basically screwed but if you see it prepare to break our shield then we are stuck.
Also a really cool trick many people forget about is dodging man does that save people. dodge our initial charge then we have to wait to catch up to you. Our instant gap closer as a little bit of a recovery on it so we wont be smashing you to the ground right after it unless your just standing there like a fool.
Fixing is a decision - nerf these classes again, or put counters in other classes. Guess we will see what they do.
Edit: BTW read the reply above once mine went I think he meant 'rush' instead of jump. They definately have the rush to you function.
If there was anything that I'd change that made GF more manageable I would increase the damage and cooldown of their encounters by 50% - 100% atleast on the big damage centric ones like lunging strike, bull's charge and frontline surge. This way if you avoid their first strike you have a very open "fire at will the tanks reloading" chance. On the flip side if you fail your gonna die, just a bit faster.
Imagine if you had to carefully close the gap to a ranged fighter ... or maybe even deciding to retreat and wait while your TR melts the enemy wizard. Not just run-charge-bash everything without a care in the world?
I don't know what you think is balanced, but I think whatever is happening in pvp right now is far from it.
conqueror GF is like a glass cannon high damage but lower def compared to tank what makes them OP is stalwart set high def and deflect
for ranged if they guard use normal atk to break it and dodge if you see them dash
go to their back, guard only blocks attack from front
If you thing GF goes in without patience your silly, we come in and look at the one guy not paying attention then wreck him, but we have to be careful to not get the one guy surrounded by his team mates otherwise its a death wish.
Also Ill point out like I said above, if you are paying attention and see a GF coming you dodge right when they charge, and wow you basically avoided their onslaught.
Are they still going to go after you.....probably but wont most classes?
Can you kite a gf long enough to break his shield and then beat him....Yes I do it on my CW all the time.
SO yes I have a 60 CW and a 60 GF i play them both and love them both. I am not just a GF trying to defend them, I am saying they can be fought. DO they annoy the hell out of me yes, if I get caught off guard they HAMSTER me off but so does any other TR, CW, or GWF that catches you off guard.
This guy is smart!
Also when they are conqueror, the goal is to not block because they do more damage based on how much block meter they have. Take that bit of advice and do what you must.
Sorry you're upset man. GFs do not have more burst than an equally geared rogue nor do they have any at will stuns.
The Control Wizard is broken. It should have a bolt like chill strike with a respectable cooldown like 7 seconds without gear and with gear and regen we should be able to get it down to 3 - 3.5 seconds that would fix the Cw right there.
Not only are Guardians a terror in PVP because the insane amount of damage. Not only can they absorb an insane equal amount of damage but they're also maintaining DPS high above, and I mean by a wide gap then that of its counter parts.
That is OVER POWERED. When a class can absorb as much as them and dish out extreme damage about in PVE/PVP the Dev's know it. There's no way they could be comfortable with things how they are. If things don't change. I just might as well jump on the flavor of the month and become a Guardians myself.
I'm not looking to nerf them to the ground. I just want them to become balanced like every other class.
I say go ahead and try the op tank - post screens of ownage please. We will wait.
Even prepatch a well geared, not uber geared but well geared would last a lot longer than 2 seconds against multiple players. Turtle up.
Based on the fact this is your first post your prob not talking at cap PVP and you prob arent well geared.
Ran CN yesterday with another CW with full shadow weaver and ancients in every slot. I was in the same and a GF in average gear. Had green shirt and pants.
We were AOEing like crazy which is what you would expect from two geared CW in a run.
GF easily topped the damage charts. Im seeing more and more of this. I'm also seeing the 90% health prone stunning attacks from tanks in PVP. Their at will gap closer is a real killer. Just got hope they dont catch you near a wall.
What i dont get is that they get massive HP and mitigation, defense, deflection. Whereas im in a flimsy piece of cloth and they out damage me.
Seems a touch strange.
Spot on except that timless is the preferred pvp set. Stalwart is the preferred pve set.