It is ridiculous that people can simply leave the game and enter a new one now without there being any consequences at all for doing so. With the latest patch, people can now simply hide behind their invisible wall infront of spawn and stay there since it's no longer possible to spawncamp anymore either. By leaving it this way, you are basically choosing the side of the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> kids that leave or give up when their very low brain capacity fails to comprehend a situation which usually involves them dying. Examples:
-Omg this guy beat me! He must be cheating *insert more badplayer whine here* /quits
-Omg I just died and we're 300 points behind! There's no way that we can win this *all 4 of them rush to the same zone one more time, leaving the other 2 zones uncontested* /giveup
-Omg I died at mid, why did you guys split up to contest the other zones and leave me here by myself (translated: why are you trying to win the game)? Omfg srsly we should all defend one zone, you guys are so bad. /ragequit
-Omg these people are way too good, let's all sit at spawn so they can't get any more points aka they won't be able to get a reward for being good players.
One of the above four scenarios happens pretty much every game. A penalty is needed, and some sort of timer that kicks you out of the game if you stay inside spawn area for too long (30+ seconds for example) is needed aswell. Please make this happen asap, thanks.
TL;DR
I think that missing out on sweet pvp action is already punishment enough. Anything more would be greedy.
We are not trying to cause emo suicides here are we? I am no lawyer, but I am pretty sure that assisted suicide is still murder.
Frankly speaking, if you are able to state the four scenarios, you WILL practice them when such event happens on YOU instead. I will not be surprised.
Nope actually, I run solo pretty often which means I lose from time to time aswell. I only exit a game when a premade setup match goes wrong (getting in game without them being on the other team).
@Skele: Personally I don't really mind having a bot on my team but I agree that something has to be done against them aswell. I pvp a lot every day so I kinda got a whole list of names of the currently active pvp bots, it'd probably not be allowed for me to post it though.
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
It's still entirely possible to spawncamp, on both maps, so I'm not sure what exactly was patched.
Both maps? I found out that it's still possible to do @ Rivenscar after I wrote my OP but I'm 100% sure that you can no longer spawncamp Hotenow unless you got a GF on your team.
Edit: actually, I think a TR can do it aswell with deft strike then. Time to test XD
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
0
rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
Both maps? I found out that it's still possible to do @ Rivenscar after I wrote my OP but I'm 100% sure that you can no longer spawncamp Hotenow unless you got a GF on your team.
Well I've seen Rivenscar for myself but haven't encountered it on Hotenow. For that I was going by what someone else posted. However "unless you got a GF" doesn't sound like 100% that you can no longer spawncamp. I know a lot of classes could get up there before without resorting to teleporting so I don't see how it would be any different than Rivenscar.
Well I've seen Rivenscar for myself but haven't encountered it on Hotenow. For that I was going by what someone else posted. However "unless you got a GF" doesn't sound like 100% that you can no longer spawncamp. I know a lot of classes could get up there before without resorting to teleporting so I don't see how it would be any different than Rivenscar.
Yeah, seems that it's very situational now on Hotenow (someone has the stand really close to the edge while you jump into the rock on the right and target that person).
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
@Degraaf: Yeah I don't like spawncamping either. They really need to make a timer for staying in spawn too long now though, because this is going to ruin PvP a lot more than spawncamping did lol.
I am the class leading the fight against perma stealth rogues and all rogues since Beta. I have a thread on my hard counter on perma stealth rogues. It doesn't matter what class I am. It matters how I counter perma stealth. I own them by clicking leave. They get not glory and are owned and I am off to another PvP match getting glory.
I am the class leading the fight against perma stealth rogues and all rogues since Beta. I have a thread on my hard counter on perma stealth rogues. It doesn't matter what class I am. It matters how I counter perma stealth. I own them by clicking leave. They get not glory and are owned and I am off to another PvP match getting glory.
How about you just remove yourself from PvP altogether. It'd be the ultimate counter against stealth rogues. Ermagerd rogue in stealth for 1 second, perma stealth bs yo. Rogue = popular class in PvP. Therefore, you're going to annoy a lot of teammates by just leaving the game like that. So yeah honestly, just stop PvPing, and stop posting on my thread because you don't offer a working solution to the problems at hand.
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
0
rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
edited June 2013
On preview server:
PvP
The Rivenscar Ruins map has been updated to seal off any remaining issues with spawn point camping.
I am the class leading the fight against perma stealth rogues and all rogues since Beta. I have a thread on my hard counter on perma stealth rogues. It doesn't matter what class I am. It matters how I counter perma stealth. I own them by clicking leave. They get not glory and are owned and I am off to another PvP match getting glory.
This is the type of behaviour you get when you do not penalise leaving pvp games. And this isn't even the worst case, although it may be the saddest.
As long as PvP is as unbalanced as it is plus the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> 0 gain for getting stomped and GY camped and on top fo that the amounts of bots in the game I see nothing wrong with leaving the game. Especailly when 1-2 others have left already.
As long as PvP is as unbalanced as it is plus the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> 0 gain for getting stomped and GY camped and on top fo that the amounts of bots in the game I see nothing wrong with leaving the game. Especailly when 1-2 others have left already.
As long as PvP is as unbalanced as it is plus the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> 0 gain for getting stomped and GY camped and on top fo that the amounts of bots in the game I see nothing wrong with leaving the game. Especailly when 1-2 others have left already.
Re-read the last sentence you wrote.
You outlined three points for leaving:
1) not getting any gains for losing
2) bots
3) leavers
Obviously point (3) "leavers" exacerbates point (1). Therefore by penalising leavers you take out one-third of your reasons for leaving and alleviate the remaining half of the reason you want to leave.
As far as I can see your post actually unwittingly supports introducing a hefty penalty for leavers.
You outlined three points for leaving:
1) not getting any gains for losing
2) bots
3) leavers
Obviously point (3) "leavers" exacerbates point (1). Therefore by penalising leavers you take out one-third of your reasons for leaving and alleviate the remaining half of the reason you want to leave.
As far as I can see your post actually unwittingly supports introducing a hefty penalty for leavers.
Only with crazy person math.
The person you quoted still supports leaving if the other team is kicking your *** way too hard.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
I think the only real way they will ever get players to actually play out matches is if they actually physically dropped the glory after the match ended in a random spot in the map some where and you had to run around to collect it before you left the pvp map. But I know players would hate having to search for their glory bag (pun intended) at the end of every match since it would never been in the same spot twice (to make it difficult for bots to find the bag) In fact it wouldn't even have to be a bag. Just something that bots couldn't easily program in to look for.
No glory bag = no glory a reason to stay to the end to collect your glory bag. I know players would hate it but I think it's really the only way it would keep players in the matches. Although I don't know how well it would prevent bots. (probably wouldn't)
I think the only real way they will ever get players to actually play out matches is if they actually physically dropped the glory after the match ended in a random spot in the map some where and you had to run around to collect it before you left the pvp map. But I know players would hate having to search for their glory bag (pun intended) at the end of every match since it would never been in the same spot twice (to make it difficult for bots to find the bag) In fact it wouldn't even have to be a bag. Just something that bots couldn't easily program in to look for.
No glory bag = no glory a reason to stay to the end to collect your glory bag. I know players would hate it but I think it's really the only way it would keep players in the matches. Although I don't know how well it would prevent bots. (probably wouldn't)
End of match glory should be minimal. Give glory for every kill and capture :P
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
The person you quoted still supports leaving if the other team is kicking your *** way too hard.
In all mmos/ moba I have played you still get penalised for leaving if you are getting beaten badly. There are reasons for that, and its not because the devs hate you and want you to suffer.
As a simple example, everyone will have a different view on what it means to get beaten badly. Some people will want to leave as soon as the enemy captures two bases, some will want to keep going right to the end even if they are far behind in points.
Then you have the fact that when there is no penalty, people do not leave just because they are getting stomped. As clearly evidenced by this forum, people start thinking its ok to leave if 1/4 of the classes in the game run a build they do not like, or their team are not playing how they think the game should be played, or they are about to get killed, or maybe they just don't like your name... the list goes on.
If you are getting badly beaten the game ends quick enough. If completely unequal matches are common in pvp that is an issue that should certainly be addressed. But the lack of a leaver penalty is not a solution to those problems, it is a problem in itself that ruins games for many people.
Based on what I read in these forums, the best way to play NW pvp is to keep leaving games until I find a match where my team is dominating. That's the only logical solution you can come to in the current set up, and that is SAD.
You outlined three points for leaving:
1) not getting any gains for losing
2) bots
3) leavers
Obviously point (3) "leavers" exacerbates point (1). Therefore by penalising leavers you take out one-third of your reasons for leaving and alleviate the remaining half of the reason you want to leave.
As far as I can see your post actually unwittingly supports introducing a hefty penalty for leavers.
Your reading comprehension is bad. As I said if already one has left then I see no reason to punish players who do not want to get farmed the rest of the game because you will not win 4vs5 unless the oppnent consists entirely of mentally handicaped monkeys.
No my post does nothing of the sort it wants the game to either be better balanced with various mechanics to either make the sides more equal especially in terms of at least roughly GS or remove the 0 Glory penalty.
In all mmos/ moba I have played you still get penalised for leaving if you are getting beaten badly. There are reasons for that, and its not because the devs hate you and want you to suffer.
As a simple example, everyone will have a different view on what it means to get beaten badly. Some people will want to leave as soon as the enemy captures two bases, some will want to keep going right to the end even if they are far behind in points.
Then you have the fact that when there is no penalty, people do not leave just because they are getting stomped. As clearly evidenced by this forum, people start thinking its ok to leave if 1/4 of the classes in the game run a build they do not like, or their team are not playing how they think the game should be played, or they are about to get killed, or maybe they just don't like your name... the list goes on.
If you are getting badly beaten the game ends quick enough. If completely unequal matches are common in pvp that is an issue that should certainly be addressed. But the lack of a leaver penalty is not a solution to those problems, it is a problem in itself that ruins games for many people.
Based on what I read in these forums, the best way to play NW pvp is to keep leaving games until I find a match where my team is dominating. That's the only logical solution you can come to in the current set up, and that is SAD.
The problem is not getting penalized it is getting no reward at all for at least trying. WoW did it right, even if you get trashed you get a decent amount of honor for trying and penelized for going afk. This is the only system which makes sense because there is no shame in losing badly everyone gets trashed especially in solo queue.
Wasting those peoples time with 0 Glory on the other hand is beyond <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and is at least in my case one of the major reason I do not bother with games which are lost from the start and nigh impossible to even get to 500 points for extremly poor reward in fact.
Your reading comprehension is bad. As I said if already one has left then I see no reason to punish players who do not want to get farmed the rest of the game because you will not win 4vs5 unless the oppnent consists entirely
No my post does nothing of the sort it wants the game to either be better balanced with various mechanics to either make the sides more equal especially in terms of at least roughly GS or remove the 0 Glory penalty.
.
Here you prove my point again: "if already one has left"- that player would likely not have left if there was a leavers penalty, therefore you would, by your own account, have no reason to leave.
The problem is not getting penalized it is getting no reward at all for at least trying. WoW did it right, even if you get trashed you get a decent amount of honor for trying and penelized for going afk. This is the only system which makes sense because there is no shame in losing badly everyone gets trashed especially in solo queue.
That is exactly what I am trying to say, no need to call each other names.
Note that you do get a reward for trying, if you have a whole team and no one has left, it is unlikely that you will not get any points. Whether that system needs to be tweaked is for another debate, but the leavers penalty as you point out yourself, is an important part of a system that works pretty well in other games.
Oh, thanks for keeping the thread going guys - don't have much time to pay attention to it. I see other threads are being made about this issue aswell so hopefully something will be done about it soon.
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
Here you prove my point again: "if already one has left"- that player would likely not have left if there was a leavers penalty, therefore you would, by your own account, have no reason to leave.
Here you prove my point again:
That is exactly what I am trying to say, no need to call each other names.
Note that you do get a reward for trying, if you have a whole team and no one has left, it is unlikely that you will not get any points. Whether that system needs to be tweaked is for another debate, but the leavers penalty as you point out yourself, is an important part of a system that works pretty well in other games.
You have proven nothing. You seem to live in a hypothetical world wheras I live in the here and now. The here and now tells me that leaving a game when there is no hope to get 500 points for glory is pointless waste of time. There are several factors which can lead to such circumstances leavers are one but by far not the only problem.
The main problem is not leavers, it is the badly designed system first and foremost awarding nothing for a terrible loss is a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> system and just encourages leaving.
Heck even if they would introduce a leavers penalty I'd just do an instance or two until it's over that is far more productive than getting farmed and humiliated for 15-20 minutes and getting exactly nothing for the pain. No thank you.
That being said I have stayed in more than enough games when my team got trashed badly but we all made some odd 1k-1.5k points and therefore it was not a waste of time but actually enjoyable under the "make the best out of it" premise and in some of those we were even just 3 left or had 1-2 bots which are basically free kills and points for the enemy so don't try to lecture me on anything.
0
rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
edited July 2013
The ironic thing is that Cryptic created the "leaver" issue themselves by how they tried to fix the AFK issue: The glory nerf. So they sort of traded one problem for a problem which in my view is even worse. Before if you were on a bad team it was easier to stomach getting killed for 15 minutes. Now people just leave and hope for a better team.
Instead of looking at ways to penalize leavers perhaps they should look at ways to make them not want to leave to begin with. Crazy, I know!
You have proven nothing. You seem to live in a hypothetical world wheras I live in the here and now. The here and now tells me that leaving a game when there is no hope to get 500 points for glory is pointless waste of time. There are several factors which can lead to such circumstances leavers are one but by far not the only problem.
The main problem is not leavers, it is the badly designed system first and foremost awarding nothing for a terrible loss is a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> system and just encourages leaving.
Heck even if they would introduce a leavers penalty I'd just do an instance or two until it's over that is far more productive than getting farmed and humiliated for 15-20 minutes and getting exactly nothing for the pain. No thank you.
That being said I have stayed in more than enough games when my team got trashed badly but we all made some odd 1k-1.5k points and therefore it was not a waste of time but actually enjoyable under the "make the best out of it" premise and in some of those we were even just 3 left or had 1-2 bots which are basically free kills and points for the enemy so don't try to lecture me on anything.
I'm not trying to lecture you, the thread is titled "penalty for leaving an active pvp game". In every post you have made in this thread you say or strongly imply that leaving is a problem and should be penalised. You also point out other things you consider issues, such as bots, afkers, and rewards each of which does need consideration, but none of which make leaving with no penalty an acceptable game mechanic.
I know that you are trying to say: "A leavers' penalty is ok, as long as there is a reward for losing". However, like I have said several times, to which your only response is to attack me, two wrongs don't make a right.
The current mechanic of no leaving penalty may save you 5-10 mins of getting totally dominated by another team (the game does not take 15-20 mins if you are getting hammered), but it also opens the door to great abuse because, as these forums clearly show, people start leaving for any old reason. People leaving active pvp games ruins it for everybody and it exacerbates problems that the game inherently has, as you have said yourself.
In other words, the cure, if you can call it that, is worse than the cause. I would also be shocked and disappointed if the devs did indeed see having no penalty for leaving as a solution to bots etc in games.
You really don't get it. Either your reading comprehension is really terrible or my english skills are not as good as I hoped them to be.
Let me rephrase that:
Under the current system there should be no leaver penalty.
With a change in system we can talk about a leave penalty but ths is beside the point. Fact is under the current system I perfectly understand people who leave the game and I did so myself on a few occasions for reasons already mentioned.
Ask for a change in system, ask for better balance, ask for more diversity in maps and map design, then we can talk about leaver penalty. Until then you will get a strong opposition from me against a leaver penalty.
0
honoraryorangeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
Dear people,
If you have a ton of 'leavers' it is probably because you suck.
You really don't get it. Either your reading comprehension is really terrible or my english skills are not as good as I hoped them to be.
Let me rephrase that:
Under the current system there should be no leaver penalty.
With a change in system we can talk about a leave penalty but ths is beside the point. Fact is under the current system I perfectly understand people who leave the game and I did so myself on a few occasions for reasons already mentioned.
Ask for a change in system, ask for better balance, ask for more diversity in maps and map design, then we can talk about leaver penalty. Until then you will get a strong opposition from me against a leaver penalty.
I think its your analytical skills, not your English skills- although your spelling could do with some work.
Talking of reading skills, I believe I summarized your position in my above post when I said:
"I know that you are trying to say: "A leavers' penalty is ok, as long as there is a reward for losing".
Funnily enough I then said:
"However, like I have said several times, to which your only response is to attack me, two wrongs don't make a right. "
And you didn't let me down here either, but feel free to keep gouging away at me with your insults, I'm just a faceless emotionless voice on the net after all.
If you have a ton of 'leavers' it is probably because you suck.
No, it's the other way around. Say you have a reasonably strong team and manage to win the first wave (mainly conquering mid). Often times, a person on the opposite team will leave because *insert several reason why here*. Usually this is followed by a chain reaction aka more people leaving because that 1 person left. This leaves the winning team with very little or no reward because the entire opposition left before 1/4th of a bar is even reached.
And there's tons of other situations where people feel that it's a good idea to leave. That's why I feel that some sort of penalty should be induced on people that leave an active PvP game.
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
Just an example pic. Check the bars (blue was actually slightly in front before 3 people left) and the amount of kills vs deaths and you'll know why these people left the game. These people don't even care about winning the actual pvp game, they just don't want to die - which is impossible, because they're not skilled enough yet to prevent that or atleast get some kills in aswell before dying. The reason why they're bad PvPers is likely because they keep leaving games when they die a few times, never sticking around long enough to improve on their errors which got them killed.
Idm playing with baddies, but please penalize them so that they atleast won't be a game spoiler to the next group(s) of pvpers they end up playing with.
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
Ever considered the possibility that the enemy team simply outgeared them by a big amount? Did that ever cross your mind?
Oh and nice for proving my point with that picture. The main reason they left was that they did not want to risk wasting 15-20 minutes for 0 glory I am pretty sure of that.
Unless you ask for a change in system I cannot take you seriously.
Comments
TL;DR
I think that missing out on sweet pvp action is already punishment enough. Anything more would be greedy.
We are not trying to cause emo suicides here are we? I am no lawyer, but I am pretty sure that assisted suicide is still murder.
Nope actually, I run solo pretty often which means I lose from time to time aswell. I only exit a game when a premade setup match goes wrong (getting in game without them being on the other team).
@Skele: Personally I don't really mind having a bot on my team but I agree that something has to be done against them aswell. I pvp a lot every day so I kinda got a whole list of names of the currently active pvp bots, it'd probably not be allowed for me to post it though.
Both maps? I found out that it's still possible to do @ Rivenscar after I wrote my OP but I'm 100% sure that you can no longer spawncamp Hotenow unless you got a GF on your team.
Edit: actually, I think a TR can do it aswell with deft strike then. Time to test XD
Well I've seen Rivenscar for myself but haven't encountered it on Hotenow. For that I was going by what someone else posted. However "unless you got a GF" doesn't sound like 100% that you can no longer spawncamp. I know a lot of classes could get up there before without resorting to teleporting so I don't see how it would be any different than Rivenscar.
Yeah, seems that it's very situational now on Hotenow (someone has the stand really close to the edge while you jump into the rock on the right and target that person).
I am the class leading the fight against perma stealth rogues and all rogues since Beta. I have a thread on my hard counter on perma stealth rogues. It doesn't matter what class I am. It matters how I counter perma stealth. I own them by clicking leave. They get not glory and are owned and I am off to another PvP match getting glory.
How about you just remove yourself from PvP altogether. It'd be the ultimate counter against stealth rogues. Ermagerd rogue in stealth for 1 second, perma stealth bs yo. Rogue = popular class in PvP. Therefore, you're going to annoy a lot of teammates by just leaving the game like that. So yeah honestly, just stop PvPing, and stop posting on my thread because you don't offer a working solution to the problems at hand.
This is the type of behaviour you get when you do not penalise leaving pvp games. And this isn't even the worst case, although it may be the saddest.
Very solid point because... Its true.
Re-read the last sentence you wrote.
You outlined three points for leaving:
1) not getting any gains for losing
2) bots
3) leavers
Obviously point (3) "leavers" exacerbates point (1). Therefore by penalising leavers you take out one-third of your reasons for leaving and alleviate the remaining half of the reason you want to leave.
As far as I can see your post actually unwittingly supports introducing a hefty penalty for leavers.
Only with crazy person math.
The person you quoted still supports leaving if the other team is kicking your *** way too hard.
No glory bag = no glory a reason to stay to the end to collect your glory bag. I know players would hate it but I think it's really the only way it would keep players in the matches. Although I don't know how well it would prevent bots. (probably wouldn't)
End of match glory should be minimal. Give glory for every kill and capture :P
In all mmos/ moba I have played you still get penalised for leaving if you are getting beaten badly. There are reasons for that, and its not because the devs hate you and want you to suffer.
As a simple example, everyone will have a different view on what it means to get beaten badly. Some people will want to leave as soon as the enemy captures two bases, some will want to keep going right to the end even if they are far behind in points.
Then you have the fact that when there is no penalty, people do not leave just because they are getting stomped. As clearly evidenced by this forum, people start thinking its ok to leave if 1/4 of the classes in the game run a build they do not like, or their team are not playing how they think the game should be played, or they are about to get killed, or maybe they just don't like your name... the list goes on.
If you are getting badly beaten the game ends quick enough. If completely unequal matches are common in pvp that is an issue that should certainly be addressed. But the lack of a leaver penalty is not a solution to those problems, it is a problem in itself that ruins games for many people.
Based on what I read in these forums, the best way to play NW pvp is to keep leaving games until I find a match where my team is dominating. That's the only logical solution you can come to in the current set up, and that is SAD.
Your reading comprehension is bad. As I said if already one has left then I see no reason to punish players who do not want to get farmed the rest of the game because you will not win 4vs5 unless the oppnent consists entirely of mentally handicaped monkeys.
No my post does nothing of the sort it wants the game to either be better balanced with various mechanics to either make the sides more equal especially in terms of at least roughly GS or remove the 0 Glory penalty.
The problem is not getting penalized it is getting no reward at all for at least trying. WoW did it right, even if you get trashed you get a decent amount of honor for trying and penelized for going afk. This is the only system which makes sense because there is no shame in losing badly everyone gets trashed especially in solo queue.
Wasting those peoples time with 0 Glory on the other hand is beyond <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and is at least in my case one of the major reason I do not bother with games which are lost from the start and nigh impossible to even get to 500 points for extremly poor reward in fact.
Here you prove my point again: "if already one has left"- that player would likely not have left if there was a leavers penalty, therefore you would, by your own account, have no reason to leave.
Here you prove my point again:
That is exactly what I am trying to say, no need to call each other names.
Note that you do get a reward for trying, if you have a whole team and no one has left, it is unlikely that you will not get any points. Whether that system needs to be tweaked is for another debate, but the leavers penalty as you point out yourself, is an important part of a system that works pretty well in other games.
You have proven nothing. You seem to live in a hypothetical world wheras I live in the here and now. The here and now tells me that leaving a game when there is no hope to get 500 points for glory is pointless waste of time. There are several factors which can lead to such circumstances leavers are one but by far not the only problem.
The main problem is not leavers, it is the badly designed system first and foremost awarding nothing for a terrible loss is a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> system and just encourages leaving.
Heck even if they would introduce a leavers penalty I'd just do an instance or two until it's over that is far more productive than getting farmed and humiliated for 15-20 minutes and getting exactly nothing for the pain. No thank you.
That being said I have stayed in more than enough games when my team got trashed badly but we all made some odd 1k-1.5k points and therefore it was not a waste of time but actually enjoyable under the "make the best out of it" premise and in some of those we were even just 3 left or had 1-2 bots which are basically free kills and points for the enemy so don't try to lecture me on anything.
Instead of looking at ways to penalize leavers perhaps they should look at ways to make them not want to leave to begin with. Crazy, I know!
I'm not trying to lecture you, the thread is titled "penalty for leaving an active pvp game". In every post you have made in this thread you say or strongly imply that leaving is a problem and should be penalised. You also point out other things you consider issues, such as bots, afkers, and rewards each of which does need consideration, but none of which make leaving with no penalty an acceptable game mechanic.
I know that you are trying to say: "A leavers' penalty is ok, as long as there is a reward for losing". However, like I have said several times, to which your only response is to attack me, two wrongs don't make a right.
The current mechanic of no leaving penalty may save you 5-10 mins of getting totally dominated by another team (the game does not take 15-20 mins if you are getting hammered), but it also opens the door to great abuse because, as these forums clearly show, people start leaving for any old reason. People leaving active pvp games ruins it for everybody and it exacerbates problems that the game inherently has, as you have said yourself.
In other words, the cure, if you can call it that, is worse than the cause. I would also be shocked and disappointed if the devs did indeed see having no penalty for leaving as a solution to bots etc in games.
Let me rephrase that:
Under the current system there should be no leaver penalty.
With a change in system we can talk about a leave penalty but ths is beside the point. Fact is under the current system I perfectly understand people who leave the game and I did so myself on a few occasions for reasons already mentioned.
Ask for a change in system, ask for better balance, ask for more diversity in maps and map design, then we can talk about leaver penalty. Until then you will get a strong opposition from me against a leaver penalty.
If you have a ton of 'leavers' it is probably because you suck.
I think its your analytical skills, not your English skills- although your spelling could do with some work.
Talking of reading skills, I believe I summarized your position in my above post when I said:
"I know that you are trying to say: "A leavers' penalty is ok, as long as there is a reward for losing".
Funnily enough I then said:
"However, like I have said several times, to which your only response is to attack me, two wrongs don't make a right. "
And you didn't let me down here either, but feel free to keep gouging away at me with your insults, I'm just a faceless emotionless voice on the net after all.
No, it's the other way around. Say you have a reasonably strong team and manage to win the first wave (mainly conquering mid). Often times, a person on the opposite team will leave because *insert several reason why here*. Usually this is followed by a chain reaction aka more people leaving because that 1 person left. This leaves the winning team with very little or no reward because the entire opposition left before 1/4th of a bar is even reached.
And there's tons of other situations where people feel that it's a good idea to leave. That's why I feel that some sort of penalty should be induced on people that leave an active PvP game.
Idm playing with baddies, but please penalize them so that they atleast won't be a game spoiler to the next group(s) of pvpers they end up playing with.
Oh and nice for proving my point with that picture. The main reason they left was that they did not want to risk wasting 15-20 minutes for 0 glory I am pretty sure of that.
Unless you ask for a change in system I cannot take you seriously.