What PvP would need to do to start being balanced is ignore gear and take everyone at their base class levels. But that would upset everyone who wants to have a leg up on the competition. Or they could have teirs of level 60 PvP.
I doubt they will change anything going off my experience in champions online...where they did successfully kill PvP.
What PvP would need to do to start being balanced is ignore gear and take everyone at teirs base class levels.
That would help certainly.
But that would upset everyone who wants to have a leg up on the competition.
So its GvG gear vs gear and not pvp? :rolleyes:
Don't care about winning or losing, I just want to have fun.
...sounds like someone got dominated by a rogue with some great gear OR someone sucks at their class...;-) the whining is pretty funny though.
Being 1 shotted by something you can't see, yeh thats being domintaed, there is no defense against it no matter what your 'skill' is. If someone is going to hit you for 24k and you have 23k health...do the math, then please explain how that is considered PvP and what you would do to counter it, I would love to hear it...as long as there was some intellignece behind the arguement instead of useless comments like L2P or some reference to whining.
But thanks for proving the point that alot of PvP enthusiasts are muppets that spout nonsense like L2P.
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willsommersMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 103
edited June 2013
I love pvp.
MMO PVP is almost universally atrocious. It just really doesn't need to be included in many of em. It seems like an afterthought in this game, like many single player games that tack on a horrible pvp deathmatch arena to try and appeal to young kids.
DnD has always been about coop. PVP feels so forced in this game. To make it interesting like others have said they'd have to take away gear entirely, put everyone on a level playing field, and work some class balancing for pvp only. But hey, I can't hate on cryptic for wanting people to spend money to own in pvp. It funds the rest of the game which I enjoy immensely. If I want to pvp I'll go load up an ol school battlefield game, or real time strategy game.
Don't care about winning or losing, I just want to have fun.
Being 1 shotted by something you can't see, yeh thats being domintaed, there is no defense against it no matter what your 'skill' is. If someone is going to hit you for 24k and you have 23k health...do the math, then please explain how that is considered PvP and what you would do to counter it, I would love to hear it...as long as there was some intellignece behind the arguement instead of useless comments like L2P or some reference to whining.
But thanks for proving the point that alot of PvP enthusiasts are muppets that spout nonsense like L2P.
If you are getting "one shotted" that means your defenses are low and your HP's are low and the person you got hit by is probably better geared than you. But let me be clear, the one shots are not by perma stealth rogues, more than likely its an Executioner build that is in stealth. They are already killing rogues already.
Shocking Execution (daily power) is already nerfed so hard its all but useless, so much so, I am thinking about dropping it on my rogue. Sad to say that, especially since its the level 60 daily power. It's garbage in PVE and PVP, about the only thing its good for is to maybe finish someone off that's running away, assuming they don't dodge or block it or avoid it somehow. Lashing Blade is on the nerf chopping block too. Now you have people complaining about Cloud of Steel while in stealth.
Trust me, I see the writing on the wall for rogues. They will get nerfed in to the ground until people stop complaining about them and ruin whatever use they are in PVE in the process. I just hope they release the other classes before they make it unplayable (like clerics).
I wonder if they have graphics for the new rogue weapons looking like foam noodles?
MMO PVP is almost universally atrocious. It just really doesn't need to be included in many of em. It seems like an afterthought in this game, like many single player games that tack on a horrible pvp deathmatch arena to try and appeal to young kids.
DnD has always been about coop. PVP feels so forced in this game. To make it interesting like others have said they'd have to take away gear entirely, put everyone on a level playing field, and work some class balancing for pvp only. But hey, I can't hate on cryptic for wanting people to spend money to own in pvp. It funds the rest of the game which I enjoy immensely. If I want to pvp I'll go load up an ol school battlefield game, or real time strategy game.
there really isn't much point in spending money on these games for PvE play, you adventure to find stuff but if you are all buffed out there is no point to it, the only point in buffing all out is to go up against others in an attempt to own and dominate over them... I find this particular game vary lacking in D&D material, its all hack and slash, no puzzles, no role play, no feeling of adventure, even the player made campaigns choose from the same maps and are nothing but tossed together hack and slash trash
at level 60 most classes got uber set gears, the very best cleric set gear sucks in comparison as 4 second bonuses every 45 seconds flat out sucks and so does a 20% healing boost... then everyone finally gets around to slotting enchantments and I'm not sure about the other classes but for clerics you are given most of the slots as offense slots and hardly any defense, slotted gems aren't so bad but then when you start doing stupid stuff like giving percents of damage and health as damage while other enchants merely give percents of weapon's damage (which is like a tenth of the other damage) and then letting everyone stack the effects many times over, and give fighter classes 200% health regen on dailies so that the cleric is no longer needed and players start using health potions in PvP and starting to manufacture their own potions all of which seem to stack the PvP dynamics of any sort of balance is out the window for good and then the majority becomes bored and quickly quits (people may play this game during the summer when they have little to do, but summer doesn't last forever)
I think you are labouring under a misapprehension, although that is supported by the way this game is setup, so I suppose it is more of a general systemic issue.
I'm actually not too much of a fan of PvP in this game, but it kind of bugs me that people want "balance" between classes in it, when that quite plainly isn't consistent with the specific role of certain classes.
I agree, for the specific purposes of PvP, the cleric and its gear are currently not tenable, but I honestly cannot see how it could be different, nor why it should be.
The cleric is, to a high degree, a support class: focused on mitigating damage and healing others. You could of course attempt to make a cleric a necessary part of every PvP battle by somehow increasing the costs of dying or being revived without a cleric present, but that would require a level of organization from PvP parties that is unlikely in public matches and thereby would ruin PvP for everyone.
As for the general issue of gear-based PvP: by the very nature of the system, some people will be almost impossible to defeat -- and should be. Yes, it is unfair -- and it has to be, otherwise the entire idea of different gear makes no sense. If someone invests the massive amount of time it takes to come up with perfect weapon and armor enchants as well as perfect or rank 10 enchants for the rest of his gear he should steamroll anything that approaches him.
You could mitigate this, somewhat, by matchmaking via gear score, but that is problematical at best as well because gear score doesn't seem to mean the same for different classes: as a mainly support-skilled TR I seriously struggled to get my gear score over 12.2k, even though I have only rank 8+ and greater enchants into which I've sunken well over seven million AD and literally *days* of running dungeons, my Ioun Stone provides me another roughly 2.1k from the gear I put into it.
Contrast this with a friend of mine who plays GF and had no problem getting to 13k and the quite regular GFs who advertises in PE-Zone with 15k GS... no idea how I would ever get there with a TR, considering my upgrade from level 6/7s to several level 8/9s brought me only a couple of 100 points total...
As for the original poster: as many others here have written, I doubt he actually plays a Trickster Rogue. I actually went and respec'd into the perma-stealth TR build to see what all the fuss was about and found it far less efficient than my current, admittedly much more costly, build.
Anyway, in the end, I see no sensible way -- nor would I see it as a sensible objective -- to create a level playing field between the different classes in PvP. Classes have different roles and some are simply not useful for public PvP encounters. You may have more luck in a very organized group, but even then I think it's unlikely for diversity to make much of a difference unless you begin to hand out DC-based buffs so serious that it would destabilize PvE all over again.
Being 1 shotted by something you can't see, yeh thats being domintaed, there is no defense against it no matter what your 'skill' is. If someone is going to hit you for 24k and you have 23k health...do the math, then please explain how that is considered PvP and what you would do to counter it, I would love to hear it...as long as there was some intellignece behind the arguement instead of useless comments like L2P or some reference to whining.
But thanks for proving the point that alot of PvP enthusiasts are muppets that spout nonsense like L2P.
LOL! You obviously didn't read what I said. If you are getting 1 shotted by a rogue, post nerf, you are under-geared or the rogue spent a ton of real world cash to uber enchant their stuff (and its still not easy to one shot people even then)...News flash: Rogues aren't getting 24k crits very often anymore. The premise of your argument is that if a rogue can sneak up behind you and one shot you by pressing 1 button, pvp wouldn't be fun...but THIS ISN"T HAPPENING. Sorry, its just not. The premise of MY POINT was that if someone wants to spend tons of real world money making a maxed out rogue, they are probably going to destroy you (just as if any other class did the same). If you are constantly getting killed by rogues in every pvp match you play, you are doing it wrong because most can be countered fairly easily and then killed even easier if you are even a little bit ok at your class. Its not "L2P"...Its "stop whining for a nerf on a class you obviously know nothing about that happens to be owning you".
I have been pvPing for 18years of games. Played near every MMO that's been out worth knowing the name of and some not. Ive never seen such a moronic junction as the rogue class. leveling was fun in general. the rogue is a fun class and have fun mechanics and skills. Ive only been 60th for 1 week... everytime I PvP I cant have fun really anymore. I can kill anyone. near anytime. I can stay stay stealthed and throw my very high dps daggers 90% of the time non stop. I go Immune to all CC all damage as I laugh... I go back to stealth and roll away I drop smoke. go immune go stealth repeat repeat repeat.... I fight 2-4 people at a time..I mean theres even multi videos on it.
Ive never heard of or played a assassin/rogue/stealth class in anygame in all of history that I can stay stealthed and no one can target me as I attack and kill enemys.... If this is working as intended someone is a *(&%^%#$ing moron. I love pvp. and altho there is issues with many classes. GF damage is too high. the CDs are too short. clerics are just... well sad to play in pvp and you know it. gwf are pretty well done now. CW damage is also too high and not enough control still. I mean the CW is a straight up dps ranged now. not a assisting cc class. again you know this. the CDs on all classes are to fast. and there MUST be a CC immunity put in. 1 second after being CC'd SO simple would fix the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> chain CC lockdown. but nothing.... nothing and I mean nothing comes close to the rogue stealth/ immune/ranged dps/stealth/immune repeat pure game breaking mechanic. I no longer enjoy my rogue in pvp.. it is stupiud what I can do and get away with.
I sadly find myself playing less and hopeing for changesd and looking at other games now. and I do NOT want too. love this game for what it can be. what is most likely coming and will be. But I love pvping and the broken rogue concept is ruining it. I loved my rogue,... until I became a cheesy god that can solo 3 people.
Be well.
pfft in Rift i could fight 10 people at the same time on my warrior. You need more pvp experience.
I think you are labouring under a misapprehension, although that is supported by the way this game is setup, so I suppose it is more of a general systemic issue.
I'm actually not too much of a fan of PvP in this game, but it kind of bugs me that people want "balance" between classes in it, when that quite plainly isn't consistent with the specific role of certain classes.
I agree, for the specific purposes of PvP, the cleric and its gear are currently not tenable, but I honestly cannot see how it could be different, nor why it should be.
The cleric is, to a high degree, a support class: focused on mitigating damage and healing others. You could of course attempt to make a cleric a necessary part of every PvP battle by somehow increasing the costs of dying or being revived without a cleric present, but that would require a level of organization from PvP parties that is unlikely in public matches and thereby would ruin PvP for everyone.
As for the general issue of gear-based PvP: by the very nature of the system, some people will be almost impossible to defeat -- and should be. Yes, it is unfair -- and it has to be, otherwise the entire idea of different gear makes no sense. If someone invests the massive amount of time it takes to come up with perfect weapon and armor enchants as well as perfect or rank 10 enchants for the rest of his gear he should steamroll anything that approaches him.
You could mitigate this, somewhat, by matchmaking via gear score, but that is problematical at best as well because gear score doesn't seem to mean the same for different classes: as a mainly support-skilled TR I seriously struggled to get my gear score over 12.2k, even though I have only rank 8+ and greater enchants into which I've sunken well over seven million AD and literally *days* of running dungeons, my Ioun Stone provides me another roughly 2.1k from the gear I put into it.
Contrast this with a friend of mine who plays GF and had no problem getting to 13k and the quite regular GFs who advertises in PE-Zone with 15k GS... no idea how I would ever get there with a TR, considering my upgrade from level 6/7s to several level 8/9s brought me only a couple of 100 points total...
As for the original poster: as many others here have written, I doubt he actually plays a Trickster Rogue. I actually went and respec'd into the perma-stealth TR build to see what all the fuss was about and found it far less efficient than my current, admittedly much more costly, build.
Anyway, in the end, I see no sensible way -- nor would I see it as a sensible objective -- to create a level playing field between the different classes in PvP. Classes have different roles and some are simply not useful for public PvP encounters. You may have more luck in a very organized group, but even then I think it's unlikely for diversity to make much of a difference unless you begin to hand out DC-based buffs so serious that it would destabilize PvE all over again.
in PvE a cleric in this game simply isn't needed for anything other than boss fights, and then they are only needed by the classes that can't easily avoid most all damage and heal attack themselves back up
After you take liek a half of his hp maybe, and try that with whatever skills you have and coodlowns. Hit stealther target with aoe if he can be practically anywhere. I played pvp and one rogue was in stealth for like 3 minutes until he wtf pwned everyone and capped the node. balance...
Usually a single hit or two will do the trick.
It'll screw up their rotation since their stealth will drain faster than they can restealth.
Its not "L2P"...Its "stop whining for a nerf on a class you obviously know nothing about that happens to be owning you".
I have a 60 rogue and 60 cleric so I know a little about both. I'm not asking for a nerf, I am just adding my 2 cents, but point taken. I prefer playing the cleric, I'm not looking for the easiest win, I just want to have fun in evenly matched games where you can last more than a couple of seconds. I must admit I haven't gone all out gearing my char up with defenses. I should look into that. But if it does come down to a gear issue then thats just as bad tbh, anyone that isn't 60 yet is in for a miserable time in pvp while they gear up. Gear shouldn't dictate how succesful/unsuccesful you are in pvp.
As for the general issue of gear-based PvP: by the very nature of the system, some people will be almost impossible to defeat -- and should be. Yes, it is unfair -- and it has to be, otherwise the entire idea of different gear makes no sense. If someone invests the massive amount of time it takes to come up with perfect weapon and armor enchants as well as perfect or rank 10 enchants for the rest of his gear he should steamroll anything that approaches him.
What happens in the arms race is a small percentage get the top gear, they become unstoppable monsters. The rest of the community becomes unable to compete with any semblance of fun and begin to become frustrated and ultimately leave PvP behind. So the PvP community gets smaller and smaller. The pool of people to pop queues with dries up and you end up with the same 100 people in PvP playing every hour or so instead of thousands popping queues evey minute.
I have a 60 rogue and 60 cleric so I know a little about both. I'm not asking for a nerf, I am just adding my 2 cents, but point taken. I prefer playing the cleric, I'm not looking for the easiest win, I just want to have fun in evenly matched games where you can last more than a couple of seconds. I must admit I haven't gone all out gearing my char up with defenses. I should look into that. But if it does come down to a gear issue then thats just as bad tbh, anyone that isn't 60 yet is in for a miserable time in pvp while they gear up. Gear shouldn't dictate how succesful/unsuccesful you are in pvp.
don't bother gearing your cleric up in defenses, I have two clerics and have done that with my second, it helps a little but you are killed just about as fast and as easily... the key here is to look at the cleric gear defense stats compared to the GF's gear defense stats, you will notice that the GF gets around twice the defense stats that the cleric gets (ya, go full out defense on a cleric and you still only wind up with about half the defense points a GF has and you don't have their 50% block and immunity from frontal attacks)
What happens in the arms race is a small percentage get the top gear, they become unstoppable monsters. The rest of the community becomes unable to compete with any semblance of fun and begin to become frustrated and ultimately leave PvP behind. So the PvP community gets smaller and smaller. The pool of people to pop queues with dries up and you end up with the same 100 people in PvP playing every hour or so instead of thousands popping queues evey minute.
all that would be easily fixed if these games would have PvP leader boards and would place players into PvP matches according to their rankings, this is why this game was fun in lower level PvP matches as all of them were tiered and evened up every 10 levels ... the makers of games all copy each other and seldom do a **** thing to tackle problems and issues that nobody else does and the solutions are typically quite simple and would require little programming to bring about
I have been pvPing for 18years of games. Played near every MMO that's been out worth knowing the name of and some not. Ive never seen such a moronic junction as the rogue class. leveling was fun in general. the rogue is a fun class and have fun mechanics and skills. Ive only been 60th for 1 week... everytime I PvP I cant have fun really anymore. I can kill anyone. near anytime. I can stay stay stealthed and throw my very high dps daggers 90% of the time non stop. I go Immune to all CC all damage as I laugh... I go back to stealth and roll away I drop smoke. go immune go stealth repeat repeat repeat.... I fight 2-4 people at a time..I mean theres even multi videos on it.
Ive never heard of or played a assassin/rogue/stealth class in anygame in all of history that I can stay stealthed and no one can target me as I attack and kill enemys.... If this is working as intended someone is a *(&%^%#$ing moron. I love pvp. and altho there is issues with many classes. GF damage is too high. the CDs are too short. clerics are just... well sad to play in pvp and you know it. gwf are pretty well done now. CW damage is also too high and not enough control still. I mean the CW is a straight up dps ranged now. not a assisting cc class. again you know this. the CDs on all classes are to fast. and there MUST be a CC immunity put in. 1 second after being CC'd SO simple would fix the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> chain CC lockdown. but nothing.... nothing and I mean nothing comes close to the rogue stealth/ immune/ranged dps/stealth/immune repeat pure game breaking mechanic. I no longer enjoy my rogue in pvp.. it is stupiud what I can do and get away with.
I sadly find myself playing less and hopeing for changesd and looking at other games now. and I do NOT want too. love this game for what it can be. what is most likely coming and will be. But I love pvping and the broken rogue concept is ruining it. I loved my rogue,... until I became a cheesy god that can solo 3 people.
Be well.
Its nice to have a rogue post this since the perma stealth, perma pot healing can't target them needs to be stoped in a good way for the class.
in PvE a cleric in this game simply isn't needed for anything other than boss fights, and then they are only needed by the classes that can't easily avoid most all damage and heal attack themselves back up
Give yourself a chance Wholyhandgrenade. I know you seen some rough fights but it gets better. When I start the match and I have a cleric and the other team doesn't. It allows me to use more CC and Dps skills and control basses. You might not think a cleric is important but it decides the match a lot of times. If the other team has a cleric then I take out Frontline surge for Knights challenge for double damage so I can nuke him. Either way it affects my gameplay every match I enter. That in itself is OP and needed. Take that into consideration.
Ill buy that they are. As long as it gets fixed I don't care what they are. So yea there a rogue and I agree with him. /firm stance
Really????
Ive only been 60th for 1 week... everytime I PvP I cant have fun really anymore. I can kill anyone. near anytime. I can stay stay stealthed and throw my very high dps daggers 90% of the time non stop. I go Immune to all CC all damage as I laugh... I go back to stealth and roll away I drop smoke. go immune go stealth repeat repeat repeat.... I fight 2-4 people at a time..I mean theres even multi videos on it.
They have been 60 for a week and they can do this already? if they can, they spent millions in AD's. Next, they say they throw daggers non-stop, if a rogue has figured this out they figured out a game break no other rogue has. Daggers has 12 charges, recharges every 4 seconds, and that's only ONE recharge, BTW. Just to be clear. Then, they say they laugh at all CC? That is impossible to catch, lasts about 3 seconds and has a 20 sec CD its the same ability if popped while in stealth gives you a few seconds of being untouchable instead. Then talks about dropping smoke and stealth....so how many encounter powers is he using here to do all this? Untouchable knocks you out of stealth, Shadow Strike will refill the stealth meter, but what else is he using during all this other than Cloud of Steel? I am sorry to say he might get one kill from it, on CW, but the rest of the time doing what? If you are taking 3 on one and winning, they are seriously under experienced and geared... and no fresh 60 could do this...not without spending lots of AD's.
I mean I could so dissect this more as a NON TR... any real TR would know this guy is F.O.S.
Then to confuse things with Perma-stealthed rogues on top of this...Which in this description could not do this.
They just must add one thing - if stealthed rogue takes damage he will be revealed.
I'm Totally uneducated about pvp and the rogue class since I have never tried to play melee dps in NW but surely this is what is meant to happen? isn't it? lol it's this way in about every other MMO I have ever played.
They just must add one thing - if stealthed rogue takes damage he will be revealed.
They do have this feature. In fact not only do that have that feature but the rogue also has a power that prevents stealth loss up to a certain percentage depending on how many points you put into it and you actually have to have it on your passive bar.
I love how the lack of actual knowledge about a topic is something useful for a whiner to use in a complaint.
After you take liek a half of his hp maybe, and try that with whatever skills you have and coodlowns. Hit stealther target with aoe if he can be practically anywhere. I played pvp and one rogue was in stealth for like 3 minutes until he wtf pwned everyone and capped the node. balance...
Does male cow <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> come out of your ears? Just wondering because you are full of it.
They have been 60 for a week and they can do this already? if they can, they spent millions in AD's. Next, they say they throw daggers non-stop, if a rogue has figured this out they figured out a game break no other rogue has. Daggers has 12 charges, recharges every 4 seconds, and that's only ONE recharge, BTW. Just to be clear. Then, they say they laugh at all CC? That is impossible to catch, lasts about 3 seconds and has a 20 sec CD its the same ability if popped while in stealth gives you a few seconds of being untouchable instead. Then talks about dropping smoke and stealth....so how many encounter powers is he using here to do all this? Untouchable knocks you out of stealth, Shadow Strike will refill the stealth meter, but what else is he using during all this other than Cloud of Steel? I am sorry to say he might get one kill from it, on CW, but the rest of the time doing what? If you are taking 3 on one and winning, they are seriously under experienced and geared... and no fresh 60 could do this...not without spending lots of AD's.
I mean I could so dissect this more as a NON TR... any real TR would know this guy is F.O.S.
Then to confuse things with Perma-stealthed rogues on top of this...Which in this description could not do this.
yes really take it for the OP who's a rogue his tactics need a nerf.. make it happen cryptic
People saying get rid of the PvP.... any MMO that does that is dooming themselves to failure. The people who are playing the most, paying the most, and grinding the hardest are doing so to get items to they can compete in PvP. You can get geared up fairly quickly, what's keeping people playing the same maps over and over?
People saying get rid of the PvP.... any MMO that does that is dooming themselves to failure. The people who are playing the most, paying the most, and grinding the hardest are doing so to get items to they can compete in PvP. You can get geared up fairly quickly, what's keeping people playing the same maps over and over?
I agree and not only that but it would be silly with the new content to get rid of pvp. So what do they do with the whole new tier 2 pvp set? Just look at it now? Keep it but only for the new content? Really?
I think what it comes down to is the players who are saying to get rid of pvp, never liked pvp and never have liked pvp. They are fine repeating the same dungeon over and over because they can fight predictable computer AI that is always in the same spot and always reacts the same to every move they make. In other words the like boring predictable combat.
Comments
I doubt they will change anything going off my experience in champions online...where they did successfully kill PvP.
So its GvG gear vs gear and not pvp? :rolleyes:
Don't care about winning or losing, I just want to have fun.
Being 1 shotted by something you can't see, yeh thats being domintaed, there is no defense against it no matter what your 'skill' is. If someone is going to hit you for 24k and you have 23k health...do the math, then please explain how that is considered PvP and what you would do to counter it, I would love to hear it...as long as there was some intellignece behind the arguement instead of useless comments like L2P or some reference to whining.
But thanks for proving the point that alot of PvP enthusiasts are muppets that spout nonsense like L2P.
MMO PVP is almost universally atrocious. It just really doesn't need to be included in many of em. It seems like an afterthought in this game, like many single player games that tack on a horrible pvp deathmatch arena to try and appeal to young kids.
DnD has always been about coop. PVP feels so forced in this game. To make it interesting like others have said they'd have to take away gear entirely, put everyone on a level playing field, and work some class balancing for pvp only. But hey, I can't hate on cryptic for wanting people to spend money to own in pvp. It funds the rest of the game which I enjoy immensely. If I want to pvp I'll go load up an ol school battlefield game, or real time strategy game.
If you are getting "one shotted" that means your defenses are low and your HP's are low and the person you got hit by is probably better geared than you. But let me be clear, the one shots are not by perma stealth rogues, more than likely its an Executioner build that is in stealth. They are already killing rogues already.
Shocking Execution (daily power) is already nerfed so hard its all but useless, so much so, I am thinking about dropping it on my rogue. Sad to say that, especially since its the level 60 daily power. It's garbage in PVE and PVP, about the only thing its good for is to maybe finish someone off that's running away, assuming they don't dodge or block it or avoid it somehow. Lashing Blade is on the nerf chopping block too. Now you have people complaining about Cloud of Steel while in stealth.
Trust me, I see the writing on the wall for rogues. They will get nerfed in to the ground until people stop complaining about them and ruin whatever use they are in PVE in the process. I just hope they release the other classes before they make it unplayable (like clerics).
I wonder if they have graphics for the new rogue weapons looking like foam noodles?
there really isn't much point in spending money on these games for PvE play, you adventure to find stuff but if you are all buffed out there is no point to it, the only point in buffing all out is to go up against others in an attempt to own and dominate over them... I find this particular game vary lacking in D&D material, its all hack and slash, no puzzles, no role play, no feeling of adventure, even the player made campaigns choose from the same maps and are nothing but tossed together hack and slash trash
I think you are labouring under a misapprehension, although that is supported by the way this game is setup, so I suppose it is more of a general systemic issue.
I'm actually not too much of a fan of PvP in this game, but it kind of bugs me that people want "balance" between classes in it, when that quite plainly isn't consistent with the specific role of certain classes.
I agree, for the specific purposes of PvP, the cleric and its gear are currently not tenable, but I honestly cannot see how it could be different, nor why it should be.
The cleric is, to a high degree, a support class: focused on mitigating damage and healing others. You could of course attempt to make a cleric a necessary part of every PvP battle by somehow increasing the costs of dying or being revived without a cleric present, but that would require a level of organization from PvP parties that is unlikely in public matches and thereby would ruin PvP for everyone.
As for the general issue of gear-based PvP: by the very nature of the system, some people will be almost impossible to defeat -- and should be. Yes, it is unfair -- and it has to be, otherwise the entire idea of different gear makes no sense. If someone invests the massive amount of time it takes to come up with perfect weapon and armor enchants as well as perfect or rank 10 enchants for the rest of his gear he should steamroll anything that approaches him.
You could mitigate this, somewhat, by matchmaking via gear score, but that is problematical at best as well because gear score doesn't seem to mean the same for different classes: as a mainly support-skilled TR I seriously struggled to get my gear score over 12.2k, even though I have only rank 8+ and greater enchants into which I've sunken well over seven million AD and literally *days* of running dungeons, my Ioun Stone provides me another roughly 2.1k from the gear I put into it.
Contrast this with a friend of mine who plays GF and had no problem getting to 13k and the quite regular GFs who advertises in PE-Zone with 15k GS... no idea how I would ever get there with a TR, considering my upgrade from level 6/7s to several level 8/9s brought me only a couple of 100 points total...
As for the original poster: as many others here have written, I doubt he actually plays a Trickster Rogue. I actually went and respec'd into the perma-stealth TR build to see what all the fuss was about and found it far less efficient than my current, admittedly much more costly, build.
Anyway, in the end, I see no sensible way -- nor would I see it as a sensible objective -- to create a level playing field between the different classes in PvP. Classes have different roles and some are simply not useful for public PvP encounters. You may have more luck in a very organized group, but even then I think it's unlikely for diversity to make much of a difference unless you begin to hand out DC-based buffs so serious that it would destabilize PvE all over again.
LOL! You obviously didn't read what I said. If you are getting 1 shotted by a rogue, post nerf, you are under-geared or the rogue spent a ton of real world cash to uber enchant their stuff (and its still not easy to one shot people even then)...News flash: Rogues aren't getting 24k crits very often anymore. The premise of your argument is that if a rogue can sneak up behind you and one shot you by pressing 1 button, pvp wouldn't be fun...but THIS ISN"T HAPPENING. Sorry, its just not. The premise of MY POINT was that if someone wants to spend tons of real world money making a maxed out rogue, they are probably going to destroy you (just as if any other class did the same). If you are constantly getting killed by rogues in every pvp match you play, you are doing it wrong because most can be countered fairly easily and then killed even easier if you are even a little bit ok at your class. Its not "L2P"...Its "stop whining for a nerf on a class you obviously know nothing about that happens to be owning you".
pfft in Rift i could fight 10 people at the same time on my warrior. You need more pvp experience.
in PvE a cleric in this game simply isn't needed for anything other than boss fights, and then they are only needed by the classes that can't easily avoid most all damage and heal attack themselves back up
Usually a single hit or two will do the trick.
It'll screw up their rotation since their stealth will drain faster than they can restealth.
I have a 60 rogue and 60 cleric so I know a little about both. I'm not asking for a nerf, I am just adding my 2 cents, but point taken. I prefer playing the cleric, I'm not looking for the easiest win, I just want to have fun in evenly matched games where you can last more than a couple of seconds. I must admit I haven't gone all out gearing my char up with defenses. I should look into that. But if it does come down to a gear issue then thats just as bad tbh, anyone that isn't 60 yet is in for a miserable time in pvp while they gear up. Gear shouldn't dictate how succesful/unsuccesful you are in pvp.
What happens in the arms race is a small percentage get the top gear, they become unstoppable monsters. The rest of the community becomes unable to compete with any semblance of fun and begin to become frustrated and ultimately leave PvP behind. So the PvP community gets smaller and smaller. The pool of people to pop queues with dries up and you end up with the same 100 people in PvP playing every hour or so instead of thousands popping queues evey minute.
don't bother gearing your cleric up in defenses, I have two clerics and have done that with my second, it helps a little but you are killed just about as fast and as easily... the key here is to look at the cleric gear defense stats compared to the GF's gear defense stats, you will notice that the GF gets around twice the defense stats that the cleric gets (ya, go full out defense on a cleric and you still only wind up with about half the defense points a GF has and you don't have their 50% block and immunity from frontal attacks)
all that would be easily fixed if these games would have PvP leader boards and would place players into PvP matches according to their rankings, this is why this game was fun in lower level PvP matches as all of them were tiered and evened up every 10 levels ... the makers of games all copy each other and seldom do a **** thing to tackle problems and issues that nobody else does and the solutions are typically quite simple and would require little programming to bring about
Its nice to have a rogue post this since the perma stealth, perma pot healing can't target them needs to be stoped in a good way for the class.
LMAO you think they are actually a rogue? SMH
BTW, I have some ocean front property in Arizona I'd like to sell you too. :-)
Ill buy that they are. As long as it gets fixed I don't care what they are. So yea there a rogue and I agree with him. /firm stance
Give yourself a chance Wholyhandgrenade. I know you seen some rough fights but it gets better. When I start the match and I have a cleric and the other team doesn't. It allows me to use more CC and Dps skills and control basses. You might not think a cleric is important but it decides the match a lot of times. If the other team has a cleric then I take out Frontline surge for Knights challenge for double damage so I can nuke him. Either way it affects my gameplay every match I enter. That in itself is OP and needed. Take that into consideration.
Really????
They have been 60 for a week and they can do this already? if they can, they spent millions in AD's. Next, they say they throw daggers non-stop, if a rogue has figured this out they figured out a game break no other rogue has. Daggers has 12 charges, recharges every 4 seconds, and that's only ONE recharge, BTW. Just to be clear. Then, they say they laugh at all CC? That is impossible to catch, lasts about 3 seconds and has a 20 sec CD its the same ability if popped while in stealth gives you a few seconds of being untouchable instead. Then talks about dropping smoke and stealth....so how many encounter powers is he using here to do all this? Untouchable knocks you out of stealth, Shadow Strike will refill the stealth meter, but what else is he using during all this other than Cloud of Steel? I am sorry to say he might get one kill from it, on CW, but the rest of the time doing what? If you are taking 3 on one and winning, they are seriously under experienced and geared... and no fresh 60 could do this...not without spending lots of AD's.
I mean I could so dissect this more as a NON TR... any real TR would know this guy is F.O.S.
Then to confuse things with Perma-stealthed rogues on top of this...Which in this description could not do this.
I'm Totally uneducated about pvp and the rogue class since I have never tried to play melee dps in NW but surely this is what is meant to happen? isn't it? lol it's this way in about every other MMO I have ever played.
They do have this feature. In fact not only do that have that feature but the rogue also has a power that prevents stealth loss up to a certain percentage depending on how many points you put into it and you actually have to have it on your passive bar.
I love how the lack of actual knowledge about a topic is something useful for a whiner to use in a complaint.
Does male cow <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> come out of your ears? Just wondering because you are full of it.
yes really take it for the OP who's a rogue his tactics need a nerf.. make it happen cryptic
You are full of it. Completely and utterly, i dont even think you know how to play the game.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?324111-Build-Guide-quot-INT-Rogue-quot-Perma-Stealth-Build
60 GF(14.5GS) Cersei
60 CW(12.4GS) Shadis
60 TR(12.2GS) Dijkstra
60 GWF(12.2GS) Winnowill
45 DC(WIP) Daenerys
I don't know how to play and that is why I'm always on the top of the score board? Alright..
I agree and not only that but it would be silly with the new content to get rid of pvp. So what do they do with the whole new tier 2 pvp set? Just look at it now? Keep it but only for the new content? Really?
I think what it comes down to is the players who are saying to get rid of pvp, never liked pvp and never have liked pvp. They are fine repeating the same dungeon over and over because they can fight predictable computer AI that is always in the same spot and always reacts the same to every move they make. In other words the like boring predictable combat.