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Why GG didn't live up to the hype

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  • xhritxhrit Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    spyke2009 wrote: »
    This is nonsense. Sorry.

    It is the secret to true happiness; contentment is a state of mind.
  • spyke2009spyke2009 Member Posts: 674 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    xhrit wrote: »
    It is the secret to true happiness; contentment is a state of mind.

    Re-read my edited post on the matter, apologies for having to add in the rest but I realized I was being a bit cold and not offering you an explanation.
  • aandrethegiantaandrethegiant Member Posts: 3,369 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    nevfe wrote: »
    If you want to encourage guild membership you offer benefits for such membership (e.g. Rift has minor perks for being in a guild, such as being able to use Rally Banners and so on).

    Good point, but, not everyone wants or needs artificial benefits for joining a guild. The biggest benefit of any guild should be the enjoyment (and wisdom gained) of playing side by side with your guild brothers and sisters.

    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
    No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
    Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
  • ashensnowashensnow Member Posts: 2,215 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    chai23 wrote: »
    the facts are limiting customer experience is not good marketing.

    This is inaccurate.

    Successful marketing has frequently, if not quite always, been about generating interest, desire, and even hype for a product through limitations on access.

    That said, content designed to require membership in a guild, but which does not emphasize or require playing with your guild to participate, is not really guild content.

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
  • chronomancerchronomancer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,223
    edited June 2013
    The only thing I don't like about GG is that it's on a strict timed schedule. I play at odd hours where there's no GG going on.. that means I'll never get to play it.
  • aandrethegiantaandrethegiant Member Posts: 3,369 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The only thing I don't like about GG is that it's on a strict timed schedule. I play at odd hours where there's no GG going on.. that means I'll never get to play it.

    Yep, but rest assured, this is getting looked into. They are listening... and hopefully they can do something about it.

    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
    No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
    Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
  • xhritxhrit Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Not everyone wants to join a guild?

    So what.

    Not everyone wants to group with 4 other players to clear epic dungeons.

    By your logic Cryptic should REMOVE ALL DUNGEONS, because a few antisocial casuals want to solo everything.

    Get real.

    You can complain all you want, but you are just wasting time and energy that could be spent being happy and enjoying life.
  • chronomancerchronomancer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,223
    edited June 2013
    Yep, but rest assured, this is getting looked into. They are listening... and hopefully they can do something about it.

    That's very reassuring to know :)
  • mavalonmavalon Member Posts: 88
    edited June 2013
    The biggest problem for me is that you are doing fetch quests for an hour.
    Half our guild was complaining how boring it was.

    The only reason no one quitted is because maybe someone liked it?
    And you dont want to let others in your guild down.

    I might like it more if the fetch quests were 20 minutes.
    Then 20 minutes pvp.
    Then a 20 minute dungeon.

    But like it is now, its the only part off the game i wont be playing.
  • spyke2009spyke2009 Member Posts: 674 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    xhrit wrote: »
    Not everyone wants to join a guild?

    So what.

    Not everyone wants to group with 4 other players to clear epic dungeons.

    I guess cryptic should REMOVE ALL EPIC DUNGEONS, because a few antisocial casuals want to solo everything?

    Get real.

    You can complain all you want, but you are just wasting time and energy that could be spent being happy and enjoying life.

    Straw man argument:

    No one is saying it shouldn't exist. Also how folks spend their time, is in fact not a concern here. Unless you're talking about how the time gating is a big negative for the likes of chronomancer etc. In which case that's a different discussion kinda.
  • chronomancerchronomancer Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,223
    edited June 2013
    mavalon wrote: »
    The biggest problem for me is that you are doing fetch quests for an hour.
    Half our guild was complaining how boring it was.

    The only reason no one quitted is because maybe someone liked it?
    And you dont want to let others in your guild down.

    I might like it more if the fetch quests were 20 minutes.
    Then 20 minutes pvp.
    Then a 20 minute dungeon.

    But like it is now, its the only part off the game i wont be playing.

    I agree with you there... 30 minutes per phase is kinda long.. and 1.5 hours per match is quite long, it's like watching a standard length movie. IMHO I think each phase should be shorten to 15-20 minutes and the whole thing is over by 45-60 minutes.
  • chai23chai23 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    ashensnow wrote: »
    This is inaccurate.

    Successful marketing has frequently, if not quite always, been about generating interest, desire, and even hype for a product through limitations on access.

    So then more people will play GG with the limitations than without the limitations.

    False. What I stated is accurate.

    ashensnow wrote: »
    That said, content designed to require membership in a guild, but which does not emphasize or require playing with your guild to participate, is not really guild content.

    Unnecessary restriction is unnecessary.
  • etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Of course its guild based content.. it requires guild affiliation. Also if you happen to have a guild large enough you can field it will all guildies. If not, you can have the community join you.

    As far as the design, I believe its innovating, but does still needs work. That's currently why its offline now. Further feedback will be requested, I believe, and hopefully they get the code tighter.

    Are you saying there is a simple way to get 20 people from your guild into the same Gauntlgrym instance?
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
  • chai23chai23 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    This is patently false. ]

    Nope.
    Your Point 1: Anyone who only likes to solo ... cant play GG - for the SOLE REASON that they are not in a guild. No. If they only like to solo, they wouldnt join GG even if it were not open to non allied guilds. Why? Because they like to play by themselves which is perfectly fine. Read the storyline of the quest.. they are asking for more than one person to help them! :)

    Point, chai. All you are doing is highlighting the differences between 2 limitations. They are both limitations nonetheless and both cause less people to play the new content.
    Your Point 2: Anyone who doesnt like guilding... cant play GG - for the SOLE REASON that they are not in a guild. True. Its designed as guild only content. This is a good reason to consider playing in a guild. If you want to play in Yankee Stadium, you need to join the NY Yankees, unless you get invited as part of another organization. Very similar concept at play here. Luckily unlike being a member of the NY Yankees, its far easier to join or make your own guild. You can even make a guild that specializes solely in GG.

    The new York Yankees are not a persistent world where they invite millions of customers to play the same game at the same time. Your analogy is invalid.

    Let me create a more valid analogy for you:

    If the Yankees organization said you can only come watch a game in their stadium if you are a member of the specific organization, say...veterans association of America. If you aren't a card carrying member, we don't care how much you are willing to pay us to come watch a Yankees game, you cannot, simply because we put this completely arbitrary restriction on who can buy tickets and show up to Yankees games.

    Point, chai.
    Your Point 3 & 4:doesnt know enough people in game to guild with, cant contribute enough to a guild due to limited playing time etc -- No better way to get to know people in game than to join a guild of like-minded players. As for those who have limited times to play... again no better way to enjoy the game WHEN YOU DO HAVE THE TIME, than to join a guild of like-minded players. I would never want to waste my time in PUGville if I knew my time was limited. And my time is very, very limited.

    Again point 3, chai. Your proclamation that there's no better way to enjoy the game than by being in a guild is false. I get to decide how I enjoy the game and on which terms I do so. If I don't want to be in a guild I cant enjoy the new content however, and this is an arbitrary restriction put in place by the company, and it is being dictated to me as a customer how I get to enjoy my game experience. Does this company actually want my money? If so, stop limiting the ways in which I can enjoy the game.
  • clcmercyclcmercy Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 308 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    leshil40 wrote: »
    *snip*

    WHY GUANTLGRYM DIDN'T LIVE UP TO THE HYPE

    TL: DR

    Cryptic game. 'Nuff said.

    Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
  • avang6avang6 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    leshil40 wrote: »
    Guantlgrym is flawed in many ways, but the biggest is the fact that it's on a timer like DD, skirmish and arena pvp timers. Why have guilds in the game when you have no guild things to do other than 5 man stuff? The only reason you need a guild is for the faction setting.

    Also, with the way it's on a 5-6 hour timer, guilds can't schedule events on certain nights at certain times because it isn't possible. Also, we need some 10v10 or 20v20 team or guild v. guild events that can be Queued up for at anytime. GG was a sore disappointment for me and my guild. I was having a hard enough time getting them to log in. GG was that carrot, now what's the point? We can't even schedule for it. It could be going when most of us are at work.


    Need more game modes. CTF? 10v10? 20v20? Foundry created maps that can be put into rotation? You get the point. The game has decent combat at its core, but it's wasted on modes and systems that either don't work properly or just aren't enough. The dungeon environments are great, but are spoiled by the incessant amount of trash and number of adds on a boss fight. Make the boss itself tough with good mechanics, not tough because 50 million trash adds are kicking the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of your cleric.

    That's my man!
  • aandrethegiantaandrethegiant Member Posts: 3,369 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    chai23 wrote: »
    Nope.

    Entitlement. The entire game cannot revolve around Chai. There are others who have their own aspirations and goals for Neverwinter. Your opinion stops short at your opinion. There are many other opinions to be considered. There is no point system either. Our opinions are not up for points, and no one opinion is more important than another.

    Are you in a guild in Neverwinter, Chai? Are you in a guild in DDO? Lets talk.

    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
    No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
    Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
  • chai23chai23 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Entitlement. The entire game cannot revolve around Chai. There are others who have their own aspirations and goals for Neverwinter. Your opinion stops short at your opinion. There are many other opinions to be considered. There is no point system either. Our opinions are not up for points, and no one opinion is more important than another.

    Are you in a guild in Neverwinter, Chai? Are you in a guild in DDO? Lets talk.

    Theres no entitlement whatsoever. No refutation of what I stated, so now the personal accusations? Kind of odd that a user should have to ask a mod to refrain from that behavior and address the post rather than the poster.

    Yes there are many other opinions to be considered, and many of them are posting very similar opinions as I am. This could all be money in the bank if they removed the limitations and allowed everyone to enjoy GG without having to be forced to think inside the box only.

    And your proclamation on opinions is false. The customer is the most important person in the equation. Their opinion is most important in a for profit business atmosphere.

    I am not in a NW guild. You and I both know that in DDO the minute they released guild only content the forum riots of 2013 would ensue. What this has to do with NW Im not certain, but you keep bringing up DDO like its relevant over here. If they told people that they had to be guilded to play CitW or Fot, all hell would break loose. :p

    Your insinuation that Im thinking everything should revolve around me is false. I am the one here asking for LESS LIMITATIONS. Let everyone decide how they want to enjoy the game on an individual basis, sans arbitrary limitations which try to funnel their ability to play through specific game mechanics.
  • clcmercyclcmercy Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 308 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    You do not know the facts Chai, nor do you realize guilded gamers as a whole tend to play longer and pay for more. (You should know this with your time in DDO.) There is plenty of business sense in it to me. And as any other quest in the game is purely 100% optional.

    Strong guilds equal a strong game... especially a game based on Dungeons & Dragons.

    PS: I will say I would totally support another quest similar to GG, or even another version of GG itself thats open to non-guilded teams... but I believe GG guild only aspect should remain intact.

    I strongly disagree with your assertion that guilded gamers play longer and pay for more. I played a certain game that I shall not name for six and a half years, and the only guild/group/clan I was in was one I formed myself, with all my alts in it. A group of one, so to speak. Over that six and a half years, I paid monthly sub fees plus the odd purchase in the game store, once the game when into hybrid mode. Yes. It went F2P and I STILL paid my monthly sub and then some.

    You want to know what breeds loyalty? Having a game that's fun to play. One that engages you on all the levels you want it to. One that doesn't railroad you into certain kinds of behaviors and activities.

    I don't disagree that guild activities are a good thing. Nor do I disagree that guilds in and of themselves are a bad thing.

    What -is- bad is forcing people into something they don't want, just to experience a portion of the content.

    Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
  • clcmercyclcmercy Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 308 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Entitlement. The entire game cannot revolve around Chai. There are others who have their own aspirations and goals for Neverwinter. Your opinion stops short at your opinion. There are many other opinions to be considered. There is no point system either. Our opinions are not up for points, and no one opinion is more important than another.

    Are you in a guild in Neverwinter, Chai? Are you in a guild in DDO? Lets talk.

    Whoa. Andre. Stop a minute and just think about what you just posted.

    This is entitlement to the extreme. Just because someone is not in a guild, their opinion doesn't matter?

    Let's reverse that first sentence, too.

    "The entire game cannot revolve around Andre. There are others who have their own aspirations and goals for Neverwinter."

    I'm calling you out on that, bud. You're a community moderator and supposed to be above this kind of behavior.

    Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
  • rapticorrapticor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,078 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    As far as the design, I believe its innovating, but does still needs work. That's currently why its offline now. Further feedback will be requested, I believe, and hopefully they get the code tighter.

    Innovating? Are you for real? Yeah because alienating half your players is truly innovative. Ask Microsoft how well that worked recently with Xbox One.

    And if by "needs work" you mean fixing it. Yeah I guess that's an accurate statement.

    Feedback: Get rid of the stupid guild requirement. Let individuals choose their own affiliation.
  • ashensnowashensnow Member Posts: 2,215 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    chai23 wrote: »
    So then more people will play GG with the limitations than without the limitations.

    False.
    .

    I didnt say that. Strawman arguments give the impression that your position cannot be supported honestly.

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
  • rapticorrapticor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,078 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I'm sure he'll lock this thread because people disagree with him. What's awesome is even people that ARE in a guild and HAVE done Gauntlgrym are reporting that it's... lacking.

    I'm about the furthest from a Cryptic/NW hater as can be for the most part (take a look at my post history) but I'm supremely disappointed in Gauntlgrym and how it was implemented.
  • jlanderjlander Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The restriction on being in a guild is a bit dumb but why wouldnt anyone playing an MMO want to join a guild? Dont say cause they make me do stuff, you can be an anti-social person in a guild also, just join a casual one.

    Again, the restriction is dumb but the solution so simple. Seems like a certain poster wants to make a mountain out of an ant hill here.
  • dantianshendantianshen Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    ashensnow wrote: »
    I didnt say that. Strawman arguments give the impression that your position cannot be supported honestly.

    You didn't literally say it, but you did say it. His position is quite solid, take a look around the forums. Also note that you didn't answer the question, because doing so correctly only reinforces what he is saying. All he did was take your general statement and apply it to this specific situation.
  • veiran2veiran2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 64
    edited June 2013
    ...guilded gamers as a whole tend to play longer and pay for more.

    I've given this game well over $500.00 already, but I don't get to access end-game because I'm not in a guild and don't want to be (have had way too many bad experiences in the past with guilds). Thusly the odds of the company getting any more of my money is pretty non-existant if I get penalized for playing the way I want to play.

    Why would I keep giving money to a company who basically denies me access to content because I want to enjoy the game in the way that I want to enjoy it?

    Also, aren't you a community moderator? Maybe you should do more moderating and less arguing with players.
  • torskaldrtorskaldr Member Posts: 559 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    clcmercy wrote: »
    I strongly disagree with your assertion that guilded gamers play longer and pay for more. I played a certain game that I shall not name for six and a half years, and the only guild/group/clan I was in was one I formed myself, with all my alts in it. A group of one, so to speak. Over that six and a half years, I paid monthly sub fees plus the odd purchase in the game store, once the game when into hybrid mode. Yes. It went F2P and I STILL paid my monthly sub and then some.

    You want to know what breeds loyalty? Having a game that's fun to play. One that engages you on all the levels you want it to. One that doesn't railroad you into certain kinds of behaviors and activities.

    I don't disagree that guild activities are a good thing. Nor do I disagree that guilds in and of themselves are a bad thing.

    What -is- bad is forcing people into something they don't want, just to experience a portion of the content.

    I have a problem with that assertion as well. For one, if he's going to make that claim he should prove it or make it more clear that he invented that because he wants to believe it's true. Secondly, he strongly infers that those who don't belong to a guild don't make a significant contribution, and that the the guilded's contribution makes them more valuable with a weightier opinion.

    I belong to guilds in some games and not in others. I don't spend more or less because I'm in a guild.
  • wingsforwingsfor Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    i kno why GG has a timer. Cryptic does not want us to rush trough all of that new content so we can enjoy the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of it till module 1 comes :P
  • cue22cue22 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    He made a good point about making bosses tough, not 50 million adds killing cleric tough. The GG should be able to que like the other pvp and even if not, they need more pvp ques in the game
  • bongstickbongstick Member Posts: 83
    edited June 2013
    Honnestly, i don't see the fuzz about the Guild thing. Just join a guild. You are not even obligated to do the event in a guild group.
    That being said. We had a small guild of 10 active people including me. We all quit during the first phase (as in GG and the game). The event is boring. It is chaotic and has no meaning or competition.

    Cryptic should have just released a 20v20 pvp map and a new module. This so called live content patch is not going to make the game any better. Alot of streamers have moved on from Neverwinter and will wait and see what Module 1 brings. But even for Module 1 i have bad hopes. Cryptic shows no signs of improving. Customer Support is still horrible. Big balance patch did not fix anything and for a CW it broke the class even more with more bugs. And even in the Module 1 article they state nothing about new class paths or classes. Which in it self is strange, because they did mention those things coming a few weeks ago. I guess Cryptic realized that the game was released to soon and are now chasing the facts.

    But, fanbois will always disagree with the above statement :)
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